Social-pathic elementary child

[MichelleCarmen]

This is just not a good week, with putting kitties up for adoption AND now, my son's friend has issues of sorts.

I posted on the health board, but now I'm just flustered over a horrible situation, so here I am posting again. My son has a friend whom he's liked A LOT since the beginning of Kindergarten and now half way through first grade he ADORES this kid! The mom had said a few times to me and my DH that her kid is a handful, but what kid isn't (?), so I never took her description with too much concern.

Well. . . he had a b-day date set up with my son and another kid. The other kid said he couldn't make it to the play date because the b-day kid is "too violent." Hearing this still didn't trigger the extreme alarm bells for me because I know kids say strange things, and I didn't have any solid proof that this was anything more than what a young imaginative kid might say.

When I dropped my son off at the b-day kids' celebration, the mom mentioned that her son "breaks things." This I questioned to myself. . .my son possibly has broken something, maybe, but nothing that I can remember and based on the mom's comment, the idea that the kid routinely breaks things on purpose crossed my mind!

I posted on Fri, wondering what to make of this all. My husband and I talked about having the kid over to get an idea of his personality, but our worse fears were confirmed within FIVE minutes of being around the boy. Last night, his mother dropped my son off and her son came along and the first thing he said about a video game was "does it have killing? I like killing games." He then said he wanted a pet rat and too other pets - I cannot recall the species, because he can watch them attack or kill each other. His only two other comments were killing comments! His mother walked him out the door while he was talking about beating someone up!

This is NO JOKE. Calling that kid violent is an understatement.

This is the kid my son considers his "best friend!"

My son is sweet and we've worked so hard in keeping him in decent company. He's only allowed to play video game on the weekends, we limit what he watches on TV, and he's for the most part a great kid! He's doing great in school and his teacher gives him a "thumbs up," in his school behavior chart every day.

Why would my son be attracted to the kid that has such a dark view on life? How do I break the charm this kid seems to have over my son?

My son seemed to sense how wrong the kids comments were as he was oddly quiet around us after his friend left. I told him he has to start playing with other kids. Is it wrong of me to forceable tell him NOT to play with that kid? He's going to have a play date w/another kid, but is that enough when I can't be there to hold his hand during school?

What a mess!

 

[door knob solitaire]

I think because it is something different. And this violent kid is more of a leader...he displays a confidence or assurance or conviction in something. Sort like when you met someone who has a passion for say music, where you don''t have. You are drawn to the conviction of that person not the actual thing he is convicted to.

Example...hubby is a car guy. Started a business when he was 18. Very expensive cars. Serviced them with attention no one else was providing. Word spread. Customers that were extremely wealthy wanted to just hang out with him and bask in the glow of his passion. They were GROUPIES (oops name calling) that wanted the juice of horsepower and torque and chrome wheels blah blah blah. He had a following. Almost of religious proportions. These people weren''t BAD or INSECURE they were prosperous business leaders...they just appreciated the spark they recognized in him...the intense passion where they didn''t have one-and they wanted to be close to it.

You have a child who is a sponge. He will absorb what ever he is introduced to. I think he is stretching his wings and looking where he wants to soar next. He sees passion for SOMETHING...and is drawn to it. It isn''t the killing or the violence, you have taught him differently. It is just this other kid has the keys and is behind the wheel...and that is direction he is heading.

Does that make any sense? I have a feeling if that other parent doesn''t do any correction soon...we will all know about that child. Headlines may be only a step away. How sad.

I am so sorry for the position you are in. I understand your frustration. Sad the other parent doesn''t see it, huh?

 

[asscherisme]

MC, TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS and keep that kid away from you son. I have been there and done that with my son. My son has aspergers and is not a good judge of other kids personality. He would tend to latch on to kids that would pay attention to him. Thank god that my son is gentle! Anyway, I have had to say no to certain playmates over the years.

When my son was your son''s age, it was harder and he did not understand why I would suddenly tell him no. I would explain the best I could that the other boy could cause problems, or accidentallly (did not want to scare him with on purpose!) hurt him, etc. I would tell my son he could be an "at school" friend, but not outside school.

As he got older, it got a bit easier.

My son is not 12, but the most recent example will give you chills and it certainly gave me chills. He had this boy that he met when we moved here in the 3rd grade that latched onto him. The mom latched onto ME and the whole thing made me a bit uncomfortable but there were not immediate red flags. They played at each others homes and I saw thiis boys personality change from 3rd grade to 4th grade. By the middle of fourth grade, I had enought and I told my son that he was not allowed to have him over anymore and he was not to go to his house. My son later told me that this boy had a GUN in his basement and that he would take it out and show my son. I callled the boys mother and told her because I felt if I did not and did not tell her that her son way playing with it and he shot himself or someone else, I would feel responsible. His mothers response was I know its there and he is fine with it!

Anyway, my son at first was upset I said no more "Bobby" outsdie school. No more and over time he did understand. I was honestly afraid for my son''s safety and I got a weird fear about this kid being around my other 3 kids as weird. This kids just had this strange way about him that made me uncoortable that when he was over I would check on the boys frequiently and make sure my younger kids were not near by when I could not see them.

So, a year passes and my son tells me I was right and he know understands I did the right thing and that this kids has been expelled ofr days at a time for threatining to KILL teachers and other kids. This boy is in some of my son''s classes and my son avoids him. Other kids are scared of this kid and he walks around muttering to himelf.

I also found out from his mother (she is always very chatty with me at school functions, its really strange since she knows that I won''t allow my son to play with her son and when I see her coming towards me I walk the other way) anyway she told me that social services is investigating her house because one of her daughters friends told her mother that this boy touched her sexually! It gave me chills and made me thankful I trusted my instincts to keep this kid away from my son and family outsdie school.

So.... follow your gut. I think thats the greatest gift we have for our children is to follow that gut feeling.

 

[Circe]

At 1st grade level, we''re talking approximately 7 years old, yes? If it were just the video game thing, it wouldn''t set off any alarm bells for me, but when you factor in the rest of the stuff ....

When I was in college, I babysat for an absolutely charming little girl of around the same age. Kind, goodhearted, sensitive ... but one day on the playground, another little girl showed her her GigaPet. (Am I the only one who remembers these?) She was telling the girl I sat for about how she''d been building this version of the pet for months and how now it was a grown-up, etc., etc., and my charge fiddled with it for a second and did SOMETHING that caused the gadget''s "doctor" to come out and sadly inform us that the GigaPet was "dead," but it would be delivering another one soon. And the other little girl burst into tears, and I felt awful, and then the girl I sat for looked at me with calm, inquisitive eyes, and asked, "Can I kill this one, too?" And it took every ounce of willpower I had not to burst into hysterical laughter.

Now, the girl I sat for was not, insofar as I can tell, a sociopath. For years, I thought of that as being an illustration of how weirdly socialized kids can be: "kill" means something different to them, being based entirely in media presentation, and in our violent society, that means they can sometimes come across as being a little ... cold-blooded. The video game thing makes me think that his parents are letting him play the wrong games (does he, perchance, have older brothers or sisters?), but it doesn''t make me worry. The bit about his wanting to "fight" animals, though ... that does.

It really is tough to tell on the basis of this if the kid is emotionally disturbed, or imitating an older sibling or family member who''s demonstrated to him that boys who like violence are "cool," or just a really sad commentary on the values that we instill in little boys these days. But no matter what''s going on, I think cutting down on playtime until you feel comfortable again sounds like a good plan, if only for your own peace of mind ... and it''ll be easier at 7 than, say, at 12, when their friendship has really gelled. Alternately, could it be worth talking to the mother to ask her where her son''s been getting these distressing notions?

P.S. - A book that has little to do with children, but that might be handy for considering the issues: _The Sociopath Next Door_. It''s definitely intended for laypeople, and it''s ... thought-provoking, to say the least.

 

[bee*]

I don''t have children but I would say definitely trust your instincts. To me that child sounds very strange and I don''t think that I''d want my child to hang around with him.

 

[Independent Gal]

Wow, Asscherism''s story is so sad. A kid whose parents knowingly let him play with a gun? What is that? And the fact that the kid at that age was ''touching'' another child suggests serious funny business.

In a previous job, I read a lot about what makes kids more likely to become violent or aggresively sexual at a very young age, and a huge factor is violence or inappropriate sexuality in the home.

In MC''s case, if the mom is so jittery and upset, and the kid is so disjointed and ''into'' violence, could something be going on at their home? Not that there''s anything you could do about that, except maybe keep your eyes and ears open.

I remember this brilliant article in the satirical magazine "The Onion" where stickers were being slapped on the doors of certain homes that read "Parental Advisory: Explicit Household" So sad. But so true. I only WISH that some kids got their inappropriate language / sexuality / violent leanings from TV. If you know what I mean.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Thanks for your stories! The gun story is just flat out creepy and I see this kid being one of those in the future unless his parents change their work scheduals. . . the mom works six days a week and the dad works swing shift, so the child never sees his dad AT ALL, and only the mom one day a week. Assumably he''s angry about that.

As far as the concept of "kill" I can see would be hard for a young child to understand and even my kids say stuff like that, but not routinely and if they did say that in the presence of a another parent, I would have told them RIGHT THEN how inappropriate that was! My DH and I wouldn''t put up with that, but that mom didn''t say anything to him.

At any rate, I called the mom who wouldn''t let her son attend the party, but she wasn''t home. . .Hopefully she calls back and I can clear up her son''s comments for me.

I''ve deliberatly tried to avoid being too caught up in school gossip and cliquey stuff, but it seems now, I''ll have to participate to gain a better inside on what''s going on with all these kids. I feel like the stay-at-home-mom group dynamics is a flashback to high school (lol!) so I''ve been hesitant to socialize with anyone. However, for all I know, my son may have a reputation just by playing with that kid at recess so I need to see what''s up.

 

[swingirl]

Your son will take his cues from you. You don''t want your son thinking that you are okay with this boy''s behavior. So don''t let him be around this boy after school. And if you can you might be able to request, when they make up next year''s school schedule, to put them in separate classes. As this boy gets older his violence will escalate towards animals, other children and eventually adults. He obviously gets some thrill out of watching the attack or kill. This is different that kids playing video games where the game is won by killing. Chess is played by killing the opponents pieces but the enjoyment is made from winning the game, not the kill.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Oh, and I just talked to my DH and we are wondering if that kids is latching onto my son rather than vice-versa since my son is so friendly and outgoing. DH says not to call the mom back if she tries to schedual another play date. Guess that's the only solution.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 2/3/2008 3:51:27 PM
Author: swingirl
Your son will take his cues from you. You don''t want your son thinking that you are okay with this boy''s behavior. So don''t let him be around this boy after school. And if you can you might be able to request, when they make up next year''s school schedule, to put them in separate classes. As this boy gets older his violence will escalate towards animals, other children and eventually adults. He obviously gets some thrill out of watching the attack or kill. This is different that kids playing video games where the game is won by killing. Chess is played by killing the opponents pieces but the enjoyment is made from winning the game, not the kill.

Unfortunetly the boys aren''t even in the same class this year. They were in Kindergarten, but now seek each other out at recess! That''s an additional concern of mine that they go out of their way to find & play with each other.

 

[diamondfan]

Each of us, as children and adults, are a complex morass of things. As we mature, we learn appropriate behavior based on it being modeled for us. For some kids, it is not what they are exposed to. For others, environment notwithstanding, the darker side (for lack of a better word) evolves more strongly. This tendency toward violence (enjoying it, taking pleasure in inflicting it) is NOT a good sign psychologically. Couple it with certain other behaviors and down the line it is not a pretty picture. Kids learn to grapple with and control things that are scary or difficult, like feeling anger or having a bad thought. A healthy scenario involves control over impulses and the ability to discern right from wrong. There are no absolutes or black and whites, most people would admit to feeling rage or whatnot in their life. What they DO or do not do about it is what separates good from bad. For a kid who is basically a good kid, there is something intruiging in being around the "bad" kid...it is safer, you are not the bad one, but vicariously you can be in the sphere. It also can be really scary to see someone you know not have their head in the right place, and your son might start to pull back as he gets a bit older and the delineation between good and bad becomes more blatant with this kid.

I am not saying this friend of your son's is going to be a terrible adult, but if I were his parents, his violent proclivities would alarm me. I would certainly want to ascertain what is really going on in his little mind. I do not allow my kids to play certain types of games, violence begets violence in my view. I have read incredible books by this ex military guy who is an expert in the field on violence and the origins of that type of behavior. If I recall from his lecture, which I attended years ago, he did say FOR A CERTAIN TYPE OF KID, with certain neurological wiring, the constant and total immersion into a violent fantasy world lays groundwork for later violent behavior, and it tends to numb the kid as to the true and permanent nature of such actions. Whatever is in store for this boy, if his parents are smart they will address it sooner rather than later, and I would steer your son gently toward other boys. Does he have consequences for breaking things? I am curious what they do, they seem matter of fact about it, but are they helping him in any way? There are, I am sure, nice boys for him to hang with. He is young, but can certainly be taught about good choices. I always had more gentle sons, they certainly were active and energetic but I tried to make them whole kids, who liked lots of things, not just sports and action laden things. I had kids come over who trashed my home, bouncing from the walls, and their parents act sheepish and like, "oh well, boys will be boys"...having three sons, I certainly know there is boy like stuff, but that does not mean anything goes or that you cannot help your kid learn how to act in the world. I think post Columbine, we look more closely at signs and red flags, and I think you are justified in this case to be a bit concerned. Help your son while you are a huge source of safety and influence for him. The older they get the harder that can be.

I am sorry you are going through this. I hope this kid is fine at the end of the day, but I would be a bit creeped and not really be thrilled for him to be the sole source of friendship for my son, who is the anithesis of him. I wonder what his reputation at school is?

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 2/3/2008 4:13:15 PM
Author: diamondfan
. Does he have consequences for breaking things?

Thanks for your reply and information. I appreciate it. . .

The odd "consequence" of the boys behavior is the mom removing any objects that would be a temptation of the kid. . .she doesn''t have any breakables in the house. And, boy, that house is EMPTY!

I called another mom & left a message and am hoping to find out why her son called the other boy violent. This other mom lives in walking distance to the school, so she''s most likely hip to all the gossip.

For the most part, my kids are just average boys. They''re a bit physical in doing things like summers aults on the couch, which drives me nuts, but they don''t purposely damage stuff or try to hurt each other too often. They''ve hit each other sometimes, but maybe that is normal. I have no idea! lol Is that normal? They''re around each other so often that they bicker over Legos while playing, and they''re doing that right now as I type.

 

[diamondfan]

Her solution does not address his issue, it just makes it a non issue for the moment. She still needs to help him.

I have three boys. My kids never did certain things, like wrestle aggressively, but of course they made pillow forts and jumped off beds etc. My oldest used to reach out and smack my middle for no good reason, he is jealous and would be easily annoyed by his cute little brother who garnered lots of attention. As they have matured it is much better. They all love music and doing cool art things, my middle loves anything related to design or building or inventing...he would make things that I am sure could explode if I let him. And I think boys do have different energy than girls, typically, though of course that is not always a truism. A little rough housing, a little activeness, is all totally normal. Knowing your kid have a violent and destructive streak and just shrugging about it is not. Hopefully she is doing more than than she acts like.

 

[Independent Gal]

Sister of 3 brothers here. And yeah, MC, your boys sound normal.

 

[diane5006]

Wow what a stressful situation...for you and for the kids parents

Sounds like the kid has some issues...and the family needs to get some therapy ASAP if they haven''t already

The kids behaviour...could stem from doing extreme things to get attention...it seems to work...to having a significant menal health issues...sociopath

While it is probably best not to have you child spend too much time with him...there might be a way to ease him out of the relationship...it also might be helpful you t ask a professional the best course of action/gain additonal insight...(not that you or your child are doing anything wrong)

This reminds me a bit of a book I read...called "There''s Something Abbout Kevin"...it was disturbing and insightful at the sametime..

Best of Luck with this

 

[sera]

I would definitely not let my kid play with that boy unsupervised (and it seems like his mom being there would fall under unsupervised).

I''m a 1:1 aide at an elementary school... I work with K-3rd graders in SDC, and sadly, this boy''s behaviour does not shock me. It saddens me, but doesn''t surprise me because I see it every day. It''s a hard balance trying to reach out to these children while protecting the other children... and often the home environment does not help, but rather hinder.

I see little kids who have developed this need to be in control of others... I''ve seen kids on an emotional/psychological roller coaster depending on which parent they are with and whether or not they are given the medication they need... I''ve seen kids unable to control their violence and kids who scheme it... I''ve seen parents who have no right to be parents.

Something has to be done when the warning signs are seen... before they develop into a socio-path... and some of those socio-paths have charismatic personalities that intrigue and draw people to them where they can exert influence. All the truly evil people you can think of were once kids who gave warning signs about the path they were headed down- I think it''s not often ever some spontaneous, instantaneous mental breakdown.

It''s tragic and heart-breaking.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

MC, the big red flag for me in the other thread was when you said the other child said he could not go because this boy was too violent. I am sorry you weren''t able to get in touch with that other mom, because cancelling might have saved you from the awkwardness of cutting things off after meeting his parents. But regardless, I''ll just repeat that my daughter does not go to someone''s home without me unless I know the parents, especially if it is overnight. We do have people call her now and then who we want to stop contact with, and eventually they stop calling when you never answer. We had a very annoying child calling over and over last fall. It takes some perseverance, but not answering generally works eventually.

As far as school goes, if this continues to be an issue, I''d make a request to the principal that the two boys be in different classes next year.

 

[diamondsrock]

I can understand you not wanting to get into the gossip scene with other moms but I think in this case you do need to know the "word on the streets" so to speak. It''s a fine line between trying to stay out of that whole gossip circle and being just nosy enough that you protect your kids from bad influences. You need to reduce or preferably eliminate all play dates (I certainly wouldn''t leave your son over their house, even with the mom home) and if they still seem super friendly with each other, like another said, try to get them in separate classes next year. Sometimes children need direction and this is one of those cases. You don''t want this child influencing yours in any way. The company kids keep can shape how they act, etc. and you don''t want that happening.
I hope the other boy is ok, but his mom needs to take his behavior seriously and dosen''t sound like she is.

 

[KimberlyH]

First, the child is too young to be diagnosed as a sociopath (15 is the starting point at which it is determined whether a person meets the criteria), but he is clearly disturbed.

I think it''s important that we seperate out types of violence. Most little boys, and many little girls, I know, both in working for a school district and in personal life, play pretend violent games, such as wrestling, fake gun fights, etc. That line is crossed when a child wants to witness or facilitate or inflict true physical pain on another living being, such as rats attacking one another (which can only happen if they are living in too close a proximity to one another, and why this child would know this is quite odd).

I would not contact the other mother to gather information about the child in question as it won''t change what you already know, and that should be more than enough; you are clearly uncomfortable and you need to base your decision on that. So when she calls you back set up a play date instead of discussing the other child, just not a good road to travel down, especially since you''ve worked so hard to stay out of it.

You cannot limit contact at school, but you can guide him in making other friends by arranging play dates with other children, involving him in afterschool group activities and seeking out neighbors with children his age to befriend. I would not tell him he can''t play with this child at school, but I would tell him, in kids terms, that this child''s behavior is inappropriate and as a result he can no longer go to the child''s house nor can the child come to your home.

 

[lumpkin]

I''m loathe to call children''s services on anyone, but in this case I think that letting the child have a real gun to play with is absolute abuse and they should definitely be called. Giving a child access to a gun sends a very bad signal to that child and any that comes into the home and it shows absolute disregard for domestic safety and the well being of guests. We have a gun, but it''s in a safe and the kids are not allowed anywhere near it. A lot of other people own guns, too, but when the kids have access to them, it''s clearly an endangerment issue, IMNSHO.

I''d definitely keep my child away from that child, that house, and I''d steer clear of the mom. I''ve nixed friendships outside of school for a lot less, so I think you are well within your rights. Also, I''m not a gossip, but I don''t think there''s anything wrong with informing any other mother whose child plays with this boy that the parents allow him to have access to a gun even when other children come over to play. If it were just something like the child eats glue, or picks his nose, or something like that, I agree, don''t gossip about it. Safety issues are not gossip, though.

 

[Ellen]

MC, you''ve gotten lots of great advice, so I won''t reiterate. I''ll just throw in my 3 cents (one for each kid).

I have raised 3 boys who grew up to be law abiding citizens. Did they ever rough house and wrestle? Absolutely. Did they ever break anything? Please, don''t remind me. Did they ever break something on purpose? Absolutely not.

So, that''s normal.

As for breaking away from this boy, do what you have to do. It''s an awkward position to be in, but your son and his health, both metal and physical come first and foremost.

I feel for ya.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 2/3/2008 7:18:25 PM
Author: Ellen
MC, you''ve gotten lots of great advice, so I won''t reiterate. I''ll just throw in my 3 cents (one for each kid).

Yes, I''ve gotten loads of amazing advice. I very much appreciate it and am taking to heart everything all you helpful ladies have provided. Sorry I haven''t responded to everyone individually but sometimes it''s just easier reading and thinking about everything said.

As far as contacting the other mom, she did end up calling me back and I now worry it may not have been best to contact her. She did reassure me that her son couldn''t go to the party because he had prior obligations w/grandparents AND she hadn''t heard a single word about the b-day boy being violent. . .but, she did say she''d ask her son about the comment, so now I''m paranoid that the kid will confront my son! Maybe I''m just too much a worrier. lol I guess a parent cannot win, either way! One positive is the mom said she worked in the school system as a teacher for 20+ years so she''s use to watching for symptoms of disturbed children and tends to follow up on all similar circumstances, so she may not judge me for calling her. Hopefully I''m going way overboard in my concerns. I just love my son so much and want the best for him and to have a great set of peers. . .

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 2/3/2008 6:50:39 PM
Author: lumpkin
I''m loathe to call children''s services on anyone, but in this case I think that letting the child have a real gun to play with is absolute abuse and they should definitely be called. Giving a child access to a gun sends a very bad signal to that child and any that comes into the home and it shows absolute disregard for domestic safety and the well being of guests. We have a gun, but it''s in a safe and the kids are not allowed anywhere near it. A lot of other people own guns, too, but when the kids have access to them, it''s clearly an endangerment issue, IMNSHO.

I''d definitely keep my child away from that child, that house, and I''d steer clear of the mom. I''ve nixed friendships outside of school for a lot less, so I think you are well within your rights. Also, I''m not a gossip, but I don''t think there''s anything wrong with informing any other mother whose child plays with this boy that the parents allow him to have access to a gun even when other children come over to play. If it were just something like the child eats glue, or picks his nose, or something like that, I agree, don''t gossip about it. Safety issues are not gossip, though.

Lumpkin, I think you have you may have your stories crossed. Another poster shared a story about a child with a gun, and in that case I''d absolutely agree with you that something should be done, but it should be more than just sharing that information with other parents, in that case the authorities should be notified.

The boy MC is discussing with another parent has said violent things and his mother admits he breaks things, but there aren''t guns involved. In such a situation I don''t think it''s appropriate, or beneficial, to discuss the child or his parents with other parents, who aren''t MCs friends, because it feeds the rumor mill that seems to already exist, and could wind up backfiring on her.

MC, I wish you the best. Being a parent is one tough job and you sound like such a concerned and caring mom, I tip my hat to you. I hope this situation works itself out in a positive way.

 

[lumpkin]

Kim, you are right. I confused Ascherisme''s story she posted within this thread with MC''s story!

 

[777_LDY]

Date: 2/3/2008 3:49:47 PM
Author: MC
Thanks for your stories! The gun story is just flat out creepy and I see this kid being one of those in the future unless his parents change their work scheduals. . . the mom works six days a week and the dad works swing shift, so the child never sees his dad AT ALL, and only the mom one day a week. Assumably he''s angry about that.

As far as the concept of ''kill'' I can see would be hard for a young child to understand and even my kids say stuff like that, but not routinely and if they did say that in the presence of a another parent, I would have told them RIGHT THEN how inappropriate that was! My DH and I wouldn''t put up with that, but that mom didn''t say anything to him.

At any rate, I called the mom who wouldn''t let her son attend the party, but she wasn''t home. . .Hopefully she calls back and I can clear up her son''s comments for me.

I''ve deliberatly tried to avoid being too caught up in school gossip and cliquey stuff, but it seems now, I''ll have to participate to gain a better inside on what''s going on with all these kids. I feel like the stay-at-home-mom group dynamics is a flashback to high school (lol!) so I''ve been hesitant to socialize with anyone. However, for all I know, my son may have a reputation just by playing with that kid at recess so I need to see what''s up.

Hi MC, as a mom of three boys myself I can relate to much of what your going through. My children have had some less than stellar friends over the years. My oldest is in 4th grade and my middle is in 2nd. My 2nd grader became friends with someone very much like the child you are describing and they have been in the same class since kindergarten. This boy actually told me that he was going to kill me once, but I really do not think that a child of that age understands what it really means except that it is an action word, and yes, boys love action. Anyway, when we see this child I make sure that my son knows what rules he has to follow. We have even had numerous discussions about how my son can be a good friend to this child by helping him not get into trouble by reminding him to not do or not do certain things. And when this child has come over to our house, which isn''t very often, he has to follow my rules, period. He has come over before and started acting up right away and his mom just shrugs at him and dismisses his behavior as being "boy," but I stop him right there and let him know that if he continues that kind of talk or behavior he won''t be able to stay at my home and he''ll have to leave with mom.

They seem like good parents, and they are great people in general, but they also seem a little naive. This child is an only child for them and I''m pretty sure he may have been hard to conceive so as a result he is very spoiled. He also has some developmental issues and I wonder why they haven''t further looked into it but the bottom line for me is he is just a child. I firmly believe that no child can be "bad." Children need, and most importantly WANT to do good things. If they are getting more attention from being naughty then they will continue to seek that out. It''s also easier to give into a child when they are misbehaving, like if you are out in public, but it''s important that they know when they get home what they did was wrong and as a result there are consequences because their actions didn''t get forgotten. I continue to let my son play with this boy because I''m confident that my son knows right from wrong but also because I know he can help this little boy. He gets very sad when my son will say to him "I can''t play with you if you''re going to do that" and the boy will stop.

Also, getting involved in your school is a great way to get to know the parents and children. One of my favorite things is walking into the school and seeing the smiling faces of children who are happy to see me because I''m helping out. When we first moved to the town we live in my children were so young. There was a school event coming up for parents only that I really wanted to attend so I asked my neighbor about it. She had children a bit older that mine and she said she wasn''t going to go to that because those things were too cliquey. I decided to go anyway and really got a different view of it all. I can say for certain that there really isn''t much gossip going on, lol, just a bunch of moms trying to stay involved (because my goodness time goes by fast!) and trying to get others to help too. I would also try spending the day at school for lunch and recess and play one on one with your son and his friends. It''s a great way to get a different perspective on things!

 

[diamondsrock]

I know others disapproved of you calling the mom but your instincts were telling you to get all the info. you could find out to protect your child. My instincts would have said the same. Especially since your son considers this his "best friend." Let''s be honest, if it was just a kid he knew from school and hung out with occassionally, you wouldn''t be nearly so concerned and wouldn''t have even thought of calling the other mom. Don''t beat yourself up for calling. Of course, this is from a self admitted overprotective mother myself!

Also, just trying to get the scoop this one time doesn''t make you a gossip hound. It''s not like you do this every day, and this is the child closest to your child. I''m sure the other mom knew you were just worried since this child spends so much time with your son. Plus, let''s be honest, the behavior you witnessed was not great and didn''t help much! It only fueled what you had already heard. And I''m sure you were just asking out of curiousity and concern, not intentional cruel gossip. There is a very big difference.

Hope this all works out and keep us posted!

 

[eks6426]

My child who is in 5th grade had a friend a lot like your son''s. He was considered the "best friend" too. This kid didn''t really seem to have a lot of other friends. He was a bit older than my son...maybe 2 years which my son relates to well. We try really hard to keep an open mind. Had the kid over for some sleep overs and let my son hang out at his house. Until I started hearing about the "bullets." The friend had "live ammunition." Then eventually it came out that the friend "stole the live ammunition." And then the friend was ''looking for his father''s gun to test out the live ammunition." I tried talking to my son about choices and the choices his friend were making were bad. My son sort of got it and tried to pull away from the kid. Then the kid started making threats to my son. I called the parents and they seemed to have no idea about the threats or the bullets. We pretty much put our foot down and FORBID our son from associating with his friend. The kid would hang outside my house and lay in wait for my son to come out. Thankfully, this all went down last summer and my son is gone to a variety of summer camps so the kid couldn''t find my son to harass most of the time. The kid eventually found another older kid who is considered a "bully" to be his friend which doesn''t thrill me but at least he is leaving my son alone now.

Considering the age of your son, I wouldn''t at all be afraid of just telling your son that he can''t play with this kid out of school and in fact, it would be better if he made other friends at school. I wouldn''t care if I offended the mother either. You still have the ability to control your son''s friends right now...but that control will end. I have an 18 year old step son whose friends have been nothing but trouble. My husband really regrets not putting his foot down 8 years ago when his son was 10.

Good luck!

 

[Fancy605]

MC, I am not a parent, but I am a teacher, and I personally think that you are being VERY responsible as a parent for checking into who your son is making close attachments to. At that young an age, it is 100% okay to tell your kids who they can and cannot hang out with outside of school. You may not be able to monitor who he plays with at recess, works with in groups at school, but you sure can make sure that your son invests no extra time in hanging out with kids who may be negative influences. I hear parents all the time blaming their kids' problems on the fact that "he hangs out with the wrong crowd. After school, he's always with so-and-so" and I always want to say, "well, no offense, but you LET him hang out with those kids after school." Anyway, you can't always decide who your kids will make friends with; eventually, they have to become capable of making educated choices about friends themselves. But, at your son's age, I would say that it is perfectly acceptable to steer him away from certain types of children. It's actually refreshing to hear of a parent who actually takes an active interest in who her child is hanging out with.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Ditto to Fancy and Island Dreams! There was NOTHING wrong with you calling that other mom! Since she is a teacher, you can better believe she understands! Her own child perceived this other child was "too violent", and she needs to listen to her own child!

I am a parent and a teacher, and I have seen little kids grow up to later assault and KILL. Yes, this is absolutely ture. We knew some of these kids would end up in prison when they were in elementary school. It is great when some turn their lives around, but some sadly do not.

It is quite possible with this kid''s parents never being home that he is just sitting in front of a TV and video games with no monitoring what he watches. But regardless of where he gets these ideas, I don''t consider that normal talk for a little boy. He may grow up to be perfectly fine, but you use your best judgment to protect your child.