RB Diamonds: Brand names?

[Kim N]

Hi! I'm new here, and I've been lurking for a little while. I've loved reading all the members' posts and seeing everyone's rings.

I'm now on the search for a small stone, and I had a question about the brand names for RB diamonds. (I looked in the FAQ section but couldn't find the answer.)

Is it worth it to get a brand name RB such as A Cut Above, Eightstar, Eighternity, Superb Cert, Hearts on Fire, or HOF Dream? The only one I have seen in person is the Hearts on Fire because it's the only one in the local stores around me. Is the brilliance, fire, and scintillation of, for example, an ACA or an Eightstar really that much more than an Ideal cut without the brand name? I have not been able to compare HCA scores for different stones because the ones with GIA reports did not give crown and pavilion numbers. Are those super ideal cuts worth the price? And which is the best name? For the size I'm looking at, the difference in cut is about $200-$600 difference, but I'm on a pretty tight budget.

Also, for some reason I got different HCA ratings on the brilliance, fire, and scintillation when I entered the numbers from the AGS report for one stone versus its Sarin report.

Any advice or help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[Kim N]

I was also wondering: what is the WF PS discount?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Daniel B]

Im not in any way an expert- BUT, I will not even look at stone unless it is signature Ideal or super ideal H and A. I want the bragging rights and it clears my mind. Ive seen pictures of standard ideal cut and super ideal and there was a difference in the symmetry. Maybe it was just that one pic i saw, but i'm convinced and sold on HandA-- dont worry, better advice will be on the way

go to www.whiteflash.com and check out their A Cut Above ideals(ACA)

 

[valeria101]

Once you know what the H&A concept is all about, you should feel confident enough to make some tradeoffs. It remains up to you to decide if the outmost technical precission while great for 'bragging rights' and suitable for branding may already be on a region of diminishing returns... as long as visual impact is concerned. Of course, that would mean different things to different people, but overall - someone who has been cutting diamonds for a living will surely discern and appreciate allot more detail than I do.

About the different HCA scores for Sarin and AGS: that's the usual thing because these measurements are not 100% precise just like any other. This is one reason why the HCA comes with the instruction to be used as a 'rejection tool' only to tell the better sets of proportions in and out of the AGS0 range. If you get scores below 2, that is about as precise the HCA message is. Trying to choose based on smaller differences of HAC scores or details of the component scores remains up to you. It doesn't seem to have been meant as a practical use of the HCA. You may want to look up the 'HCA' among Garry Halloway's posts, just in case my interpretation of his words is not dead on.

Just IMO.

Best of luck!

 

[strmrdr]

Brand smand.
Buy the diamond not the hype.
Some brands are worth it some aren''t.
You can get unbranded diamonds that are every bit as good if not better than the branded diamonds.
Look at the quality and the price and compare from there.

The ACA''s don''t have a premium over unbranded of equal quality so my dislike of brands doesn''t extend to them.
The same is pretty much true of Paul''s infinity line also.

There are some brands that the quality level or patents and lack of availability elsewhere make them worth considering but h&a rounds isn''t an area that applies too.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Hi Jellybeans. You're getting good input on the H&A question.

Whiteflash Discounts

1. When a customer contacts us and mentions that they found us on PriceScope they get the advertised PriceScope price if they pay with a wire (the precise amount discounted depends on the item purchased, but it is 2% at a minimum). This is our strongest discount.

2. If the customer did not find us on PS but elects to pay with a wire we offer a standard wire discount of 2%, taken off the price that is listed on the Whiteflash website.

The discounts cannot be combined, it is one or the other. The PS discount is typically the most desirable.

 

[Shay37]

Also true but not mentioned yet is the fact that amongst the superideal H &As there can be a surprisingly different look. Some will have big fat arrows, others will have thinner arrows. This difference in style will give you a different look and performance. Both will be great. Be sure to see both styles to see your personal preference, and it really is just a preference.

Shay

 

[Kim N]

Daniel, Ana, Strmrdr, John, and Shay, thanks so much for your replies.

Could one of you tell me the difference between an Eightstar and an Eighternity?

>> I will not even look at stone unless it is signature Ideal or super ideal H and A.

Daniel, what's the difference between a signature Ideal and a super ideal H&A?

>> Look at the quality and the price and compare from there.
>> The same is pretty much true of Paul's infinity line also.

Strmrdr, if I'm buying online, how do I compare quality without seeing it with my own eyes? And where can I find Paul's infinity line?

Thanks!

ETA: Does it really make much of a difference whether the Polish and Symmetry are Ideal, Excellent, or Very Good?

 

[valeria101]

Date: 10/7/2005 11:25:06 AM
Author: jellybeans


Could one of you tell me the difference between an Eightstar and an Eighternity?

Eighternity has a different cut - they are not standard round brilliants.
Take a look Here.

... what's the difference between a signature Ideal and a super ideal H&A?

Dunno... 'ideal' and 'super ideal' are used with slightly different meanings in different places. These are basically diamonds with high optical symmetry and controlled proportions. Sometimes 'Ideal' is used as shorthand for AGS0 graded diamonds. 'Super Ideal' would be AGS0 with H&A optical symmetry - I guess. Each seller may have an ever so slightly different selection defined by symmetry precission and proportions. As much as I can tell.


Strmrdr, if I'm buying online, how do I compare quality without seeing it with my own eyes?

Strm is allot better at telling this!



And where can I find Paul's infinity line?

See Belle's post below



ETA: Does it really make much of a difference whether the Polish and Symmetry are Ideal, Excellent, or Very Good?

Hm... depends whom you ask. Visual difference? Not really... But then, it is not common at all to see diamonds with great optical symmetry, wonderful light return and 'fair' polish. Perhap that would only have a minor impact on the looks if any, but it is simply not done. If anyone took so much care of proportions, the finish grades would be tops as well. Not necessary, IMO, but this is how it works. If you do find the unlikely piece with great optics etc. and 'good' finish grades (=polish and face meet symmetry), why not. Just my (lenient) opinion.

 

[belle]

paul-antwerps site is actually found at www.craftedbyinfinity.com

 

[Daniel B]

Date: 10/7/2005 11:25:06 AM
Author: jellybeans
Daniel, what''s the difference between a signature Ideal and a super ideal H&A?

Val summed it up for ya!

Yes, and do check the different sites because they''re all different- and they''ll tell you what their brand name (super ideal) entails

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 10/7/2005 12:53:25 PM
Author: valeria101

Date: 10/7/2005 11:25:06 AM
Author: jellybeans

... what's the difference between a signature Ideal and a super ideal H&A?

Dunno... 'ideal' and 'super ideal' are used with slightly different meanings in different places. These are basically diamonds with high optical symmetry and controlled proportions. Sometimes 'Ideal' is used as shorthand for AGS0 graded diamonds. 'Super Ideal' would be AGS0 with H&A optical symmetry - I guess. Each seller may have an ever so slightly different selection defined by symmetry precission and proportions. As much as I can tell.

Yes. That's an important distinction. "Superideal" is typically a diamond that falls within traditional AGS0 proportions (or, more recently, has received the AGS0 Ideal grade for light performance), that also displays optical symmetry. If you are shopping for a superideal, be aware that US labs have no grading standards for optical symmetry, and in our opinion examples of true H&A patterning are rare in the 'mainstream.' All H&A diamonds should have a semblance of symmetrical cut, but not all are cut to ideal parameters and not all have optimum light return. As their popularity grows more factories attempt to produce them and standards have declined. If we regard the most acute level of optical symmetry as true hearts & arrows then examples of non-true hearts & arrows are more commonplace. The top vendors on Pricescope all have very high standards for H&A diamonds. Here is more info on "superideal" diamonds and their construction/design particulars.

Date: 10/7/2005 12:53:25 PM
Author: valeria101

Date: 10/7/2005 11:25:06 AM
Author: jellybeans

ETA: Does it really make much of a difference whether the Polish and Symmetry are Ideal, Excellent, or Very Good?

Hm... depends whom you ask. Visual difference? Not really... But then, it is not common at all to see diamonds with great optical symmetry, wonderful light return and 'fair' polish. Perhap that would only have a minor impact on the looks if any, but it is simply not done. If anyone took so much care of proportions, the finish grades would be tops as well. Not necessary, IMO, but this is how it works. If you do find the unlikely piece with great optics etc. and 'good' finish grades (=polish and face meet symmetry), why not. Just my (lenient) opinion.

Well put. Any diamond that has received the "Ideal" grade from AGS will, by definition, have received a grade of "Ideal" in both polish and basic symmetry. In most cases diamonds graded by other labs that meet traditional ideal proportions will also have received a top grade. The vast majority of superideals are as carefully crafted, so they should be tops too. It would ping my "whatup?" radar if a H&A diamond was offered with less than ideal/ex polish and basic symmetry.

"Ideal" polish/basic symmetry and "Superideal" optical symmetry are fabulous indicators of care and craftsmanship, but are not necessary to have top optical performance. There are proportions combos that perform well, whether ideal or superideal, and acquiring the top marks in polish and basic symmetry along with top quality in optical symmetry comes at a premium. The choice to aspire to these top levels of cut craftsmanship is a personal one.