Racist post on online vendor's FB page really bothers me

[packrat]

I don't see racism in that. I see what it's trying to say but it does it clumsily. Agree or disagree with its point, it isn't about race.

OK, I'm gonna put on my big girl pants & be un-PC enough to state that I am sick & tired of race's being read into anywhere the reader wishes to find it. My head explodes when people talk about "code words" -- in actuality, things that aren't there, aren't meant to be there, which the "offended" person claims are there in order to feel offended.

People are people are people; how is racism supposed to disappear, as we purport to want, if every comment and/or action is seen through its prism?

--- Laurie

Flame suit on.

I so agree w/you Laurie!

I don't find the picture racist. I guess don't be friends w/a vendor if they have an opinion you (not you-you, everyone-you) disagree with, or you don't like their political stance, or you feel they are morally wrong.

My husband worked at a packing house for years in management. One of the guys he worked w/was a Mexican, who used to joke that JD should let him do what he wanted or he was going to "play the Brown card". So what did JD do? He got a little white card and stuck it in his pocket. Whenever his coworker would say anything about being brown and was going to "play the brown card" JD would raise his eyebrows at him and slide the card out of his pocket. The other guy busted out laughing and made his own Brown card and they always competed to see which card would win. Some people were offended by this. JD would tell him "Be a Mexi-CAN, not a Mexi-CAN'T" and some were offended by this as well. Some of the same people who were offended by this were people who had no problems using the N-word, the C-word, every "naughty" word you can think of.

I think we have become very thin skinned and easily offended, and convinced there are monsters behind every door.

 

[Gypsy]

I was in 4th grade. In LA.

My substitute teacher read my name out loud for roll call. Stopped herself. Looked up, asked me what nationality I was. Then asked me if my parents were terrorists.

Racism happens in CA too.

 

[packrat]

I was in 4th grade. In LA.

My substitute teacher read my name out loud for roll call. Stopped herself. Looked up, asked me what nationality I was. Then asked me if my parents were terrorists.

Racism happens in CA too.

Wow. That's just..wow.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="diamondseeker2006|1372889411|

And DF, I live in the south and my daughter is Chinese, and as far as I know, she has never encountered racist comments. Well, a little boy in school one time asked her why she had "alien eyes", but I count that as the ignorance of a child and not racist.[/quote]


Kids will be kids..

 

[ForteKitty]

FK,WOW! that happened in a big city like LA ? . ..I have been living here in the US for over 40 yrs and I can't even remember one time that some one called me a "chinaman".

Not in LA. I listed the places where each incident happened. (San Diego, Florida (Orlando, to be exact), Carson City)

That's not even all of it. When we were at Disney World in Florida, I was buying something and the lady looked at my California ID. She said, "Your name's spelled wrong. IN THE UNITED STATES, we spell it ______." --- You're looking at my California ID. Where do you think I'm from? Btw, my name is an Irish spelling of an old fashioned American name, not a Chinese spelling of a Chinese name. When I told her it's an Irish name, she shut up.

Then at another store, we got some postcards and wanted to see if they sold stamps. They just kept repeating, "I don't know how much it costs to send cards to Japan." us- "we're sending this to California" them- "I don't know how much it costs to send this to China". "How about to New York?" "we don't sell international stamps"... Wow, really?

Surprisingly, I'm not mad, at least not anymore. I was pissed off at the man in San Diego and wish I said more than just "you're a rude motherf**ker, aren'tcha?" He looked a little shocked. I wish I dick punched him instead.

I was very surprised at the caliber of people Disney hires for their Florida parks. I have an annual pass for the CA park and have never encountered such rudeness/ignorance.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I consider it racist because much of the "humor" depends on a person knowing that the word Paula Deen used is often used by certain groups to denigrate the president. So, while on its face the joke appears to be about the "liberal media" the subtext of these jokes is racist, in my view.

Exactly. And the only reason the juxtaposition works at all is because if the President's race. If George Bush was substituted for Obama, then the "joke" would make no sense. That makes it a racial "joke" indeed. In fact, it begs readers to link the N-word with the president in even reading and understanding the "joke". The very fact that many people will deny that it is racist is the genius of the "joke" from a persuasion and manipulation perspective. It is what is called "modern racism": indirect or passive aggressive racism that has come to replace explicit hostile racism. From Wikipedia, modern or symbolic racism: "The theory of symbolic racism proposes that, in response to public abhorrence of overt racism, prejudice has gone underground, finding its expression in more subtle forms, which may sometimes manifest through socialization and therefore transpire without elements of conscious awareness. According to the symbolic racism model, bigots of the current era will cloak their racist sentiments under the guise of statements or actions supposedly in defence of noble and important values."

So in this case, the racism is cloaked in a conservative criticism of liberal media. Other cloaks include: jobs ("darn imigrants stealing our jobs!" or quality of education ("I need to live in X neighbourhood because it has a great school district," and of course, great school districts happen to also be rich and white).

It's all about plausible deniability these days! "Who me? I am not being racist, I am commenting on the liberal media! You are clearly too sensitive." But as I said, the "joke" would not work if the president was a white man. In fact, I don't think anyone would ever in a million years equate Paula Dean and the president if race was not the issue at stake, and not only race but the most derogatory and inflammatory racial word that exists in North American culture. And, indeed, the "joke" downplays the history and meaning of the word as well, calling it simply a "bad word" uttered 27 years ago. I am going to use this image as an exemplar in my classes about modern racism.

I know you didn't want opinions on this, but I thought this was such a fascinating example of modern racism I could not resist commenting.

 

[Matata]

I think we have become very thin skinned and easily offended, and convinced there are monsters behind every door.

There may not be monsters behind every door, but they are in nearly every state.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Oh, Gypsy!!!!

 

[JewelFreak]

FK, how sad you had to experience that so young. Abominable behavior is even worse when directed at kids -- and says MUCH more about the speaker than the object of his antagonism. I can feel the resentment & hurt it must have caused you. There are jerks everywhere; we all run into them.

Example: on a business trip in Copenhagen mmmph years ago I sat in the crowded hotel lobby waiting to meet someone for dinner. As two German men walked past me, one stopped before me, looking me up & down like a piece of meat, then with a leer, proclaimed very loudly in German, "Aaah, a little bit of dessert!" Nothing I could do but sit there all ladylike as everyone nearby stared. Could I help being female? No more than you can help being Chinese. It felt the same & I still steam about it -- many similar things, some worse, happened as I traveled throughout Europe & Asia for 12 years on business.

Worms everywhere (no, that's not fair to worms, who live their wormy lives honestly) take out their frustrations & knowledge of their own smallness on the vulnerable. This is why I dislike injecting racism into places where it obviously was not intended: We triumph by proving we're better in refusing to pass on their hostility -- therefore proving we are not vulnerable after all.

--- Laurie

 

[AGBF]

diamondseeker2006:


And DF, I live in the south and my daughter is Chinese, and as far as I know, she has never encountered racist comments. Well, a little boy in school one time asked her why she had "alien eyes", but I count that as the ignorance of a child and not racist

Dancing Fire:


"Kids will be kids.. "

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________



...and that is not the subject of this thread. The conservative magazine or whatever it was that published that piece about Paula Deen wasn't put out by pre-schoolers.

Let us look at this ad again. It shows a white woman, Paula Deen, and says she has said a naughty word years ago but couldn't be forgiven for it by the nasty people now living in the United States. We all know that the naughty word is the "n" word. Then there is a picture of the president. It says that he has done worse than Paula Deen the cook who erred; he has ruined the country.

But WHOA! Halt! Why is the president in a picture with Paula Deen?

They are side by side just for political purposes, you argue. It's purely politics. It's about his presidency, not race.

Is there really an adult posting here who can say with a straight face that it doesn't scream out at him that the entire reason Paula Deen is in the news is that Paula Deen talked about "ni**ers" and that the president is a "ni**er"? That he was picked to go up next to Ms. Deen in this ad to show that "ni**er"s can get away with things that whites like poor Ms. Deen cannot?

AGBF

 

[Dancing Fire]

FK,WOW! that happened in a big city like LA ? . ..I have been living here in the US for over 40 yrs and I can't even remember one time that some one called me a "chinaman".

Not in LA. I listed the places where each incident happened. (San Diego, Florida (Orlando, to be exact), Carson City)

I believe it can happen in a small town like CC.

 

[ForteKitty]

FK, how sad you had to experience that so young. Abominable behavior is even worse when directed at kids -- and says MUCH more about the speaker than the object of his antagonism. I can feel the resentment & hurt it must have caused you. There are jerks everywhere; we all run into them.

I don't think it's sad, I think it was eye-opening. (har, har ) Hearing that made me realize that shitty people are in fact everywhere, and it's better than I find out sooner than later. Being called a chink didn't hurt, although it did surprise me. But more than anything, it pissed me off and made me want to punch him in the balls. I probably should have. I could have easily gotten off as a minor. If I could have a time machine for one thing, that would be it.

 

[rosetta]

I consider it racist because much of the "humor" depends on a person knowing that the word Paula Deen used is often used by certain groups to denigrate the president. So, while on its face the joke appears to be about the "liberal media" the subtext of these jokes is racist, in my view.

Exactly. And the only reason the juxtaposition works at all is because if the President's race. If George Bush was substituted for Obama, then the "joke" would make no sense. That makes it a racial "joke" indeed. In fact, it begs readers to link the N-word with the president in even reading and understanding the "joke". The very fact that many people will deny that it is racist is the genius of the "joke" from a persuasion and manipulation perspective. It is what is called "modern racism": indirect or passive aggressive racism that has come to replace explicit hostile racism. From Wikipedia, modern or symbolic racism: "The theory of symbolic racism proposes that, in response to public abhorrence of overt racism, prejudice has gone underground, finding its expression in more subtle forms, which may sometimes manifest through socialization and therefore transpire without elements of conscious awareness. According to the symbolic racism model, bigots of the current era will cloak their racist sentiments under the guise of statements or actions supposedly in defence of noble and important values."

So in this case, the racism is cloaked in a conservative criticism of liberal media. Other cloaks include: jobs ("darn imigrants stealing our jobs!" or quality of education ("I need to live in X neighbourhood because it has a great school district," and of course, great school districts happen to also be rich and white).

It's all about plausible deniability these days! "Who me? I am not being racist, I am commenting on the liberal media! You are clearly too sensitive." But as I said, the "joke" would not work if the president was a white man. In fact, I don't think anyone would ever in a million years equate Paula Dean and the president if race was not the issue at stake, and not only race but the most derogatory and inflammatory racial word that exists in North American culture. And, indeed, the "joke" downplays the history and meaning of the word as well, calling it simply a "bad word" uttered 27 years ago. I am going to use this image as an exemplar in my classes about modern racism.

I know you didn't want opinions on this, but I thought this was such a fascinating example of modern racism I could not resist commenting.

+10000

You took the words right out of mouth and presented them in a much more coherent manner. I'm not American and so I'm a step away from the race issues of the US (not that the UK doesn't have it's own) but this so-called joke is obviously inherently racist to my eyes. It simply wouldn't work if the president was white.

 

[Lula]

Thanks for the great -- and civil -- responses. And, just to clarify, when I said I wasn't concerned with others' viewpoints on this, what I meant was that I perceived this photo as racist and wasn't open to changing my mind on that. So, sorry for the confusion -- I've actually enjoyed reading everyone's opinions.

Thank you, Dreamer, for your very clear explanation of the psychology behind this type of "humor." As I'm sure all of us on this thread know, advertisers and politicians often use psychological and emotional manipulation to persuade. In politics, the covert racism that I perceive in this photo has been described as the Southern Strategy, and it has been around since before Nixon, although Nixon is the politician most commonly credited with using it. The Southern Strategy involves using covert racism to convince poor and middle-class Southern whites to vote against their best interests. It's a dirty little piece of our political history, and if you haven't heard of it, please read up on it before you tell me it ain't so.

And thank you, AGBF, Matata, distracts, hlmr, and smitcompton for seeing what I see in the photo. ETA: And Rosetta.

I was sorry to read that ForteKitty and Gypsy have experienced overt racism, in places that should "know better" -- like a resort town and a classroom. Those are not accidental or innocent comments. ETA: It doesn't matter where it happened -- it's just not okay.

I know that I can't convince those of you who don't see the racism in the photo that it's there, and you certainly have a right to your opinions, as do I. However, I hope we can all agree with Wink's point that the vitriol and disrespect are inappropriate -- no matter which party is on the receiving end, Democrat or Republican.

I am very sad that I discovered this photo (and other information) on this vendor's page. I had held this vendor in high regard and I was frankly shocked to see this stuff. But, as Wink mentions, in the US, we value free speech, even if we disagree with it. And I certainly don't want to live in a country that censors speech. However, I have a right to take my business elsewhere, and I will. I also have the right not to recommend this vendor on PS. And I won't.

Happy 4th of July to Wink and the other veterans on PS -- thank you for your service to our country.

 

[packrat]

I think we have become very thin skinned and easily offended, and convinced there are monsters behind every door.

There may not be monsters behind every door, but they are in nearly every state.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map

Oh, for sure I don't deny there are monsters. They're loud and...rancid. I just don't think that *everything* is hateful. Not everyone is part of a hate group. Not every person in the Baptist religion is like that "other" group. If one person finds it offensive or hateful or racist or whatever, doesn't necessarily mean that everyone does, or that everyone feels that way.

 

[Skippy123]

I think we have become very thin skinned and easily offended, and convinced there are monsters behind every door.

There may not be monsters behind every door, but they are in nearly every state.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map

I believe it; that makes me very sad.


DREAMER, what you say makes a lot of sense and you explained it perfectly, thank you.

 

[Sky56]

What kenny says is the truth. I also have gone into B & M stores, and the owners would rant about the President or some political issue. It strikes me as unreal - Don't they realize they are chasing away half of their customers?

I've had some bizarre experiences - I look like a Northern German or Scandinavian - my features and extreme albino-like blondeness cause people to never guess that I am not what I look. So, about every ten or fifteen years or so, a bigoted idiot will go on an offensive rant about how horrible "those people" are...not realizing I am one of them. It is always a big shock to them when I mention that all my known ancestors are Jewish. It's happened to other members of my family, too. It's amazing how many people blurt out stupid remarks which only serve to make themselves look bad.

 

[Circe]

Distracts & Dreamer, +1. Hell, +1,000,000.

Laurie, normally I am +1ing you all the way, too, but on the issue of a "prism of race" being unnecessary (lovely phrasing, even if I do disagree with the concept), I could not disagree more.

We need that prism - not just of race, but of gender, and ethnicity, and ablism, and every other "ism" you can think of, because the ability to ignore those factors is a combination of luck and privilege, every time. I just wish I could pass them out like 3-D glasses at the theater. Hope you'll forgive me a little digression ....

I don't think I quite "got" the depth of institutionalized racism until I met my best friend in high school - he was a big kid even during our sophomore year, with 'locks and a Swahili name. We got stopped by the cops walking home from school just about every day, because he "matched the description of a suspect in the vicinity." As he had a fairly distinctive look, I somehow doubted that: it seemed to indicate that to the authorities, all 6'+ tall black men are the same. Even the ones who are still kids.

It was impossible to hang out at the mall without being shadowed by clerks (and we lived in a racially diverse area, btw), or, for that matter, visit a 7-11. Prior to that, I might have thought, "over-attentive clerk!" if I'd just heard somebody describing it, but, man, the difference in affect. And it's that hard-to-articulate element that made me realize that it was really crucial to listen to the people who had cause to be complaining on relevant topics, instead of trusting my own experiences.

From another angle: fast-forward a decade. Before he was my husband, or, for that matter, even a romantic blip on the radar, just my-friend-I-love-to-have-boisterous-debates-with, my husband flat-out did not believe me about how bad cat-calling was. And I thought he was being bull-headed to the point of being deliberately obtuse.

Then we got together, and he started being with me as it happened - and he still didn't see it. Dude on the street tried to grab my boob once, my husband kept walking until he realized I was on the verge of slugging a stranger.

And while I could brush it off as his still being oblivious ...? Now that I'm in my 30s, I don't get it nearly as much as I did at, say, 14 (I have always found it incredibly creepy that it lessened, not with my attractiveness - I was an awkward teen and a hot twenty-something - but as I got less obviously vulnerable), but even though I'm attuned to it because, ewwwwwwwwww, not on my watch are the 14-year-olds of this city getting harassed by creeps without some intervention, now I don't see it. Not for lack of watchfullness: just because our own gazes are a little too blinkered to catch each and every thing going on around us. Would that we had prismatic vision, a la the fly, indeed.

But when my students tell me? I'm not going to collectively label them oversensitive, or tell them to stop viewing the world through a prism of oppression. Ditto that for everybody else I know dealing with stereotyping and unpleasantness ....

 

[JulieN]

Brava, Dreamer

 

[kenny]

What kenny says is the truth. I also have gone into B & M stores, and the owners would rant about the President or some political issue. It strikes me as unreal - Don't they realize they are chasing away half of their customers?

I've had some bizarre experiences - I look like a Northern German or Scandinavian - my features and extreme albino-like blondeness cause people to never guess that I am not what I look. So, about every ten or fifteen years or so, a bigoted idiot will go on an offensive rant about how horrible "those people" are...not realizing I am one of them. It is always a big shock to them when I mention that all my known ancestors are Jewish. It's happened to other members of my family, too. It's amazing how many people blurt out stupid remarks which only serve to make themselves look bad.

You wouldn't believe the insults I hear about gays, since I'm apparently not in-your-face-swishy-queenie-flamboyantly gay.
Groupism is alive and well in America.

 

[dragonfly411]

It is racist because it is contrasting a white woman, who said and did racist things, by her OWN admission, which we KNOW to be wrong, with a black man who has only arguably done things that are wrong. Why not contrast her with Martha Stewart, who broke the law and is still loved by the media? Or Roman Polanski, who drugged and raped a child and is still loved by the media? The choice to defend a white woman's racism by contrasting her with a black person presented as evil/bad is inherently racist. If you can't see it, I suggest you get yourself to a local university and take a class on racism and examine your own views and values, because you probably have a lot of unexamined racist assumptions.

Then there's the whole issue where n---- is not just "a bad word." It's a racist word used to oppress black people. I am sick and tired of people defending her used of it as okay. No, it is not okay, any more than it is to call a Jew a kike or a Hispanic a wetback.

Yes, that image may not be blatantly racist, but even subtle racism is wrong. Even accidental racism is wrong. Even looking at these things and thinking they are okay is - you got it - wrong. If you are looking at these things and thinking they are okay, you are actively upholding the systematic oppression of a group of people based on their race. Racism isn't just doing actively harmful things; it is also enabling harm to be done and standing by while it is. You may not mean to be doing it, but you are, and it is really not that hard to pause and be a thinking and considerate human being.

How is that not basing it on race?

ETA the original image ONLY presented his job issues as viewed by the creator. NOT his race. The race was taken only into her context as a viewer.

dragonfly-

Were you addressing me? If you were, I am afraid that I still do not understand what you mean. You did not quote anything I wrote so I am not sure what you are answering here.

Deb

Deb
you asked how it was implied that his job performance was based on race. She said that the picture compared a white woman who was racist to a black man portrayed as evil. That is NOT what the picture compared. It compared woman who said yes a racist word, but in reality.... a bad word, and who is being blasted for that bad word. It also portrayed our president, a man who the original creator deemed to be a person bad at his job. Period. No where did it say a white lady who said a bad word and a black man who is evil. I saw nothing racist about the image. I saw what I just said above. That's it. I don't look at our president as a black man. I look at him as a man who has made some SERIOUS mistakes while in office. Period. I don't see how race had ANYTHING to do with what the image SAID in it. That was someone else's interpretation. The image simply presented the message that he's doing a bad job.

 

[distracts]

They are side by side just for political purposes, you argue. It's purely politics. It's about his presidency, not race.

Is there really an adult posting here who can say with a straight face that it doesn't scream out at him that the entire reason Paula Deen is in the news is that Paula Deen talked about "ni**ers" and that the president is a "ni**er"? That he was picked to go up next to Ms. Deen in this ad to show that "ni**er"s can get away with things that whites like poor Ms. Deen cannot?

You are right. It would be purely political if it was ONLY a picture of President Obama that said "Destroyed America, Media Still Loves Him." THAT would not have been racist. Whoever made the picture CHOSE to juxtapose the two, which makes it explicitly about race. They also chose to deliberately downplay what Paula Deen said - she did not say "a bad word," like ****, shit, or damn. No one would have batted an eyelash at that. She said a racist word. And yes, many of Obama's decisions have been controversial, but "destroying America" IS actively presenting him as evil, not as merely another human president fumbling to do the right thing in a complicated and dangerous world, or someone making decisions you disagree with. Even if not conscious, those word choices chose to downplay the harmful actions of the white woman and overplay/demonize the actions of the black man. Juxtaposing those two and making those specific word choices shows that whoever made the picture has a racist worldview, even if they don't realize it. The joy of racism/sexism/homophobism is that you don't even have to realize you're discriminating to do so.

As an aside, it frightens me that so many people I consider intelligent can't see any of this. The white privilege is so powerful and so often unrecognized. The reason some of you can see this isn't because it isn't there, it's because you simply have never had to think about.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

As a Chinese immigrant of the 60's I have never felt racism towards me nor my family, maybe b/c we have lived in Ca. all this time and could have been different had we lived in the southern states?

DF, it happens all the time. Either you've been oblivious, or you have been lucky.

I was born and raised in Los Angeles.

When I was 12 or 13, two men turned around a corner and one bumped into me. One said, "excuse me". The other turned to him and said, "why are you apologizing to that chink? It's not like she can understand you anyway". This happened in San Diego in the 90s.

More recently, we experienced something similar when a restaurant employee in Florida called me and my friends "foreign kids" when we asked for refills, and said that "your kind is not welcome in the first place so don't ask again."

Another time, we got lost and ended up in Carson City. The man giving us directions said we got lost because we can't see out of our chinky eyes. Uh hello asswipe, our eyes were bigger than his!

FK - Yikes, I can't even imagine. Sorry you've had these horrible things said to you.

 

[dragonfly411]

They are side by side just for political purposes, you argue. It's purely politics. It's about his presidency, not race.

Is there really an adult posting here who can say with a straight face that it doesn't scream out at him that the entire reason Paula Deen is in the news is that Paula Deen talked about "ni**ers" and that the president is a "ni**er"? That he was picked to go up next to Ms. Deen in this ad to show that "ni**er"s can get away with things that whites like poor Ms. Deen cannot?

You are right. It would be purely political if it was ONLY a picture of President Obama that said "Destroyed America, Media Still Loves Him." THAT would not have been racist. Whoever made the picture CHOSE to juxtapose the two, which makes it explicitly about race. They also chose to deliberately downplay what Paula Deen said - she did not say "a bad word," like [censored], shit, or damn. No one would have batted an eyelash at that. She said a racist word. And yes, many of Obama's decisions have been controversial, but "destroying America" IS actively presenting him as evil, not as merely another human president fumbling to do the right thing in a complicated and dangerous world, or someone making decisions you disagree with. Even if not conscious, those word choices chose to downplay the harmful actions of the white woman and overplay/demonize the actions of the black man. Juxtaposing those two and making those specific word choices shows that whoever made the picture has a racist worldview, even if they don't realize it. The joy of racism/sexism/homophobism is that you don't even have to realize you're discriminating to do so.

As an aside, it frightens me that so many people I consider intelligent can't see any of this. The white privilege is so powerful and so often unrecognized. The reason some of you can see this isn't because it isn't there, it's because you simply have never had to think about.

It frightens me even more that people who I deem intelligent and who say they are not racist, and don't support racism, are unable to look at this image without taking it in a racist context.....I suppose if it had been an image of Bush then that means it wouldn't be racist.

 

[Circe]

As an aside, it frightens me that so many people I consider intelligent can't see any of this. The white privilege is so powerful and so often unrecognized. The reason some of you can see this isn't because it isn't there, it's because you simply have never had to think about.

I ... feel this way a lot, actually. Not just on here, but IRL. A friend in business has professional peers who are great to socialize with, but as meritocratic high-earners, some of their political positions scare me. Some of them have seriously told me, during discussions of ObamaCare (as they term it), that they don't really care much if disenfranchised children die, so long as THEY don't have to pay for it. After all, shouldn't that be their parent's responsibility? Pointing out systemic racial and class differences just does not penetrate the firm belief that they're on top because they're the best ... and not at all because of having a combination of right place, right time, and, in all too many cases, right background.

Makes it hard to socialize comfortably, to say the least.

 

[Circe]

It frightens me even more that people who I deem intelligent and who say they are not racist, and don't support racism, are unable to look at this image without taking it in a racist context.....I suppose if it had been an image of Bush then that means it wouldn't be racist.

Dude, if it had been an image of Bush, the juxtaposition wouldn't have been employed, because there would be no coherent narrative. The only narrative that makes sense in comparing these two is, sadly, Deen's use of a word all too many people still apply to our president. Otherwise, a disgraced cook and the leader of the free world? Not really so comparable ....

 

[dragonfly411]

As an aside, it frightens me that so many people I consider intelligent can't see any of this. The white privilege is so powerful and so often unrecognized. The reason some of you can see this isn't because it isn't there, it's because you simply have never had to think about.

I ... feel this way a lot, actually. Not just on here, but IRL. A friend in business has professional peers who are great to socialize with, but as meritocratic high-earners, some of their political positions scare me. Some of them have seriously told me, during discussions of ObamaCare (as they term it), that they don't really care much if disenfranchised children die, so long as THEY don't have to pay for it. After all, shouldn't that be their parent's responsibility? Pointing out systemic racial and class differences just does not penetrate the firm belief that they're on top because they're the best ... and not at all because of having a combination of right place, right time, and, in all too many cases, right background.

Makes it hard to socialize comfortably, to say the least.

That's terrifying. The way I look at it is, if someone chooses not to get insurance, and something happens to them, and they then cannot or do not pay the bills, that is thousands and thousands of dollars being detracted from doctors who are working to ensure the health of everyone. They can't work to their best potential if they are scrounging to make ends meet to keep things up and running.

 

[dragonfly411]

It frightens me even more that people who I deem intelligent and who say they are not racist, and don't support racism, are unable to look at this image without taking it in a racist context.....I suppose if it had been an image of Bush then that means it wouldn't be racist.

Dude, if it had been an image of Bush, the juxtaposition wouldn't have been employed, because there would be no coherent narrative. The only narrative that makes sense in comparing these two is, sadly, Deen's use of a word all too many people still apply to our president. Otherwise, a disgraced cook and the leader of the free world? Not really so comparable ....

I dunno. I guess I just make myself take a step back. I don't look at is as some racist white woman who said a racist word and is thus disgusting, vs. a black man who is "evil" (I have to at that interpretation). I look at it as a WOMAN who, yes, said a racist word... 20 years ago and a MAN who is doing a pretty deplorable job at his job. That is what it pointed out to me. That those are the things that happened and the media is more worried about the woman who said a racist word, than the man who is doing a deplorable job at running our country. I don't see why his race has to be injected at all. Nor her's. That is what is done by those who cannot see past the race. One is black and is running our country, and the other is white and said a racist remark decades ago. But most people can only see that he's black and she's white and racist. God forbid they just look at them as two people. Two human beings. Period.

 

[AGBF]

It is racist because it is contrasting a white woman, who said and did racist things, by her OWN admission, which we KNOW to be wrong, with a black man who has only arguably done things that are wrong. Why not contrast her with Martha Stewart, who broke the law and is still loved by the media? Or Roman Polanski, who drugged and raped a child and is still loved by the media? The choice to defend a white woman's racism by contrasting her with a black person presented as evil/bad is inherently racist. If you can't see it, I suggest you get yourself to a local university and take a class on racism and examine your own views and values, because you probably have a lot of unexamined racist assumptions.

Then there's the whole issue where n---- is not just "a bad word." It's a racist word used to oppress black people. I am sick and tired of people defending her used of it as okay. No, it is not okay, any more than it is to call a Jew a kike or a Hispanic a wetback.

Yes, that image may not be blatantly racist, but even subtle racism is wrong. Even accidental racism is wrong. Even looking at these things and thinking they are okay is - you got it - wrong. If you are looking at these things and thinking they are okay, you are actively upholding the systematic oppression of a group of people based on their race. Racism isn't just doing actively harmful things; it is also enabling harm to be done and standing by while it is. You may not mean to be doing it, but you are, and it is really not that hard to pause and be a thinking and considerate human being.

How is that not basing it on race?

ETA the original image ONLY presented his job issues as viewed by the creator. NOT his race. The race was taken only into her context as a viewer.

dragonfly-

Were you addressing me? If you were, I am afraid that I still do not understand what you mean. You did not quote anything I wrote so I am not sure what you are answering here.

Deb

Deb
you asked how it was implied that his job performance was based on race. She said that the picture compared a white woman who was racist to a black man portrayed as evil. That is NOT what the picture compared. It compared woman who said yes a racist word, but in reality.... a bad word, and who is being blasted for that bad word.

But it wasn't simply any old bad word, dragonfly, as distracts pointed out above. It was a very specific one, and everyone on the face of the earth who thinks of Paula Deen takes one look at her and thinks of that word. EVERYONE. The N word.

No where did it say a white lady who said a bad word and a black man who is evil. I saw nothing racist about the image. I saw what I just said above. That's it. I don't look at our president as a black man. I look at him as a man who has made some SERIOUS mistakes while in office. Period.

Your not having seen anything racist about the image is the problem. President Obama was put up there next to the pin-up girl for the N word for only one reason: so that people could make a point about "ni**ers". That's disgusting.

I don't see how race had ANYTHING to do with what the image SAID in it.

I know you don't and that surprises me after it has been explained to you by people who write far more articulately than I do, like Dreamer. You don't "get it", but the message is, "Paula Deen is white and the old gal can't ever put a foot right. White folks can never get a break nowadays. The blacks get all the breaks. They get affirmative action and stuff. They can even become president and ruin this old country an get away with it. That's what this country has come to".

That was someone else's interpretation. The image simply presented the message that he's doing a bad job.

[/quote]

Wrong. It is the interpretation of anyone who sees the poster. The advertisement is very slick and it works on people as do all good advertisements. If you see a good ad for Coca Cola you want to go drink a Coke, whether or not you feel like writing to the person who made up the ad and praising him for his work. The work of the ad is subliminal. But Pricescopers have dissected it for you so that you can see it for what it is.



Deb

 

[hlmr]

It frightens me even more that people who I deem intelligent and who say they are not racist, and don't support racism, are unable to look at this image without taking it in a racist context.....I suppose if it had been an image of Bush then that means it wouldn't be racist.

Dude, if it had been an image of Bush, the juxtaposition wouldn't have been employed, because there would be no coherent narrative. The only narrative that makes sense in comparing these two is, sadly, Deen's use of a word all too many people still apply to our president. Otherwise, a disgraced cook and the leader of the free world? Not really so comparable ....

I dunno. I guess I just make myself take a step back. I don't look at is as some racist white woman who said a racist word and is thus disgusting, vs. a black man who is "evil" (I have to at that interpretation). I look at it as a WOMAN who, yes, said a racist word... 20 years ago and a MAN who is doing a pretty deplorable job at his job. That is what it pointed out to me. That those are the things that happened and the media is more worried about the woman who said a racist word, than the man who is doing a deplorable job at running our country. I don't see why his race has to be injected at all. Nor her's. That is what is done by those who cannot see past the race. One is black and is running our country, and the other is white and said a racist remark decades ago. But most people can only see that he's black and she's white and racist. God forbid they just look at them as two people. Two human beings. Period.

I did not see it immediately....for the first few views, I felt it was just a political statement, as many others did. Then I opened my eyes, and my mind, and realized how very cloak and dagger this image really was.

Deen used her racial slur 20 years ago, and undoubtedly 20 minutes ago.

I am wondering, if you did not feel that Obama was doing "a deplorable job at running our country", would you feel differently about that image, and what it is portraying?