Racist post on online vendor's FB page really bothers me

[dragonfly411]

As a Chinese immigrant of the 60's I have never felt racism towards me nor my family, maybe b/c we have lived in Ca. all this time and could have been different had we lived in the southern states?

DF. No. Definitely not lol. People make us southerners out to be racist bigoted monsters who want to kill people. They're being just as bigoted, but it doesn't matter since Southern isn't a race. It's just a select culture of people who have a very deep rooted history in a country, full of their own traditions and customs. But that doesn't matter.

 

[JewelFreak]

Agree with you, FebBride. Companies should not involve their employees in the politics of managers. If they want to hold a fundraiser & invite employees, fine, invite them but make it clear that attendance is purely voluntary -- and then shut up forever on the subject. Emails on politics have no place in a business. It's over the line.

Tammy -- we live in the south & though I've kept an eye open for it constantly since we moved here, I see no prejudice expressed on a daily basis. I watch a bunch of kids pile off the school bus & into neighboring houses -- a true mix of kids, Hispanic, black, Asian, you name it. It's very heartening to see. Several years ago a black family bought a house in a nearby area & found racist graffiti painted on it. Their doorstep was soon piled with neighborly cookies & cakes, and the disgust expressed by newspaper letter-writers was deep & widespread. The kids who did it were caught & charged with something, forget what. Things are not perfect -- won't ever be, this being Earth -- but an awful lot of progress has been made & is continuing.

--- Laurie

 

[Rockdiamond]

I have no problem with criticism. But I see a difference between constructive criticism and allegations of malfeasance just because we have differing points of view. The conversation tones today are rarely civil and that is what disgusts me. Since those who dislike the presidents policies on many things can not intelligently discuss them they decide to claim that he is destroying the country.

If someone wants to discuss his policies on Gays, fine. Criticize him for those policies, fine. Make him out to be the devil on a mission to destroy our wonderful country because of his policies, not so fine with me. Pick an issue, discuss it and be civil, all good. Try to destroy the man over a disagreement, not so good.

Is it any wonder that so many potentially great people will not stand up to run for office?

I would really not have a problem with having an intelligent discussion with someone who wished to have one and who was capable of having one, Wink. I wouldn't turn it down. I do not, however, think that intelligence or civility are prerequisites for free speech. I believe that burning the American flag should be, as it is, considered protected free speech.

And if people refuse to run for office because other citizens fail to conform to their standards, then it may not be "a wonder", but it is a shame. It is lucky that there will always be some good men and women who will heed their consciences and serve the public not because the public deserves it, but because they feel honor bound to do so.

Deb/AGBF

A lot of interesting discussion lately in hangout.
As opposed to FB, people are seem more bound to follow some sort of decorum here.
Kudos to Ella, and Andrey for both allowing, and thoughtfully moderating these discussions.
I applaud Wink for posting- as has been pointed out, it's a big risk for anyone in business to make any sort of political statement.
Deb- I would say that the part in bold- I don't believe that's a given. Maybe it's just a matter of how one's perspective changes over time- but I don't recall such vicious attacks on candidates in the '70's or '80's
It seems as though it's become way more "dangerous" to run for office.
I fully agree that burning the flag - or criticizing the country we love is part of the fabric of our society. Having said that, I'll admit I share Wink's distaste for the tone of such criticism of late.
BTW- as a vendor, it works the other way.
Sometimes a person you may like as a friend- and client- posts something that hurts.
But of course it makes the most sense to keep one's head down.

 

[dragonfly411]

Rockdiamond - I wish I could like your post. Especially the last part.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

If this vendor is the same one who posted his views on abortion on his website, he clearly does not think his views will hurt his business. In fact, I think he wants to provoke. I stay in touch with some people who I grew up with in the oh, so, culturally diverse city of New York. These friends moved to Long Island and have turned into hard core conservatives and religious bigots. You can't imagine what e-mails I have gotten. I had to ask them to stop sending them to me.

Laurie and others are right that some people are always looking to make a claim of racism against others. Its tiring to read how indignant everyone is.

However, I think , as Deb, has stated so well, in this particular case, racism is ever present, The comparison to Paula Deen is the clinching pin. Sure, New York has diversity, but Long Island has conservatives, the likes I have never come across in my travels in the US.

Annette

 

[AGBF]

A lot of interesting discussion lately in hangout.
As opposed to FB, people are seem more bound to follow some sort of decorum here.
Kudos to Ella, and Andrey for both allowing, and thoughtfully moderating these discussions.
I applaud Wink for posting- as has been pointed out, it's a big risk for anyone in business to make any sort of political statement.
Deb- I would say that the part in bold- I don't believe that's a given. Maybe it's just a matter of how one's perspective changes over time- but I don't recall such vicious attacks on candidates in the '70's or '80's
It seems as though it's become way more "dangerous" to run for office.
I fully agree that burning the flag - or criticizing the country we love is part of the fabric of our society. Having said that, I'll admit I share Wink's distaste for the tone of such criticism of late.
BTW- as a vendor, it works the other way.
Sometimes a person you may like as a friend- and client- posts something that hurts.
But of course it makes the most sense to keep one's head down.

I appreciate your having posted, David. I think it shows magnanimity to recognize not only Andrey's and Ella's contribution to this sort of discussion, but also a competitor's (Wink's) bravery in sticking his neck out by posting. Wink happens to be an on-line friend of mine of longstanding. I believe that I "met" him in the year 2000, although I may be incorrect. (My memory is not what it once was. I only remember that I got my first computer when my daughter was three years old, which was in 1995, before Windows.)

I respect Wink's wide-ranging intelligence and broad education. I know how well-travelled he is and he has been kind to me personally. I hope that I treat him with the respect I actually feel for him in any on-line discussion which he and I have together...whether or not our opinions diverge.

Best,
Deb/AGBF

 

[Rockdiamond]

Thanks Deb.
I've been knowing Wink for about as long as you.
Wink is one of the best people I've met in this industry. Even though we sell the same type of products- and maybe even to the some of the same people, I consider him a friend




:edited out silly joke as to not risk offending anyone:

Seriously, competitors can be great friends. In a perfect world they would all be

 

[distracts]

It is racist because it is contrasting a white woman, who said and did racist things, by her OWN admission, which we KNOW to be wrong, with a black man who has only arguably done things that are wrong. Why not contrast her with Martha Stewart, who broke the law and is still loved by the media? Or Roman Polanski, who drugged and raped a child and is still loved by the media? The choice to defend a white woman's racism by contrasting her with a black person presented as evil/bad is inherently racist. If you can't see it, I suggest you get yourself to a local university and take a class on racism and examine your own views and values, because you probably have a lot of unexamined racist assumptions.

Then there's the whole issue where n---- is not just "a bad word." It's a racist word used to oppress black people. I am sick and tired of people defending her used of it as okay. No, it is not okay, any more than it is to call a Jew a kike or a Hispanic a wetback.

Yes, that image may not be blatantly racist, but even subtle racism is wrong. Even accidental racism is wrong. Even looking at these things and thinking they are okay is - you got it - wrong. If you are looking at these things and thinking they are okay, you are actively upholding the systematic oppression of a group of people based on their race. Racism isn't just doing actively harmful things; it is also enabling harm to be done and standing by while it is. You may not mean to be doing it, but you are, and it is really not that hard to pause and be a thinking and considerate human being.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Vendors shouldn't post their opinions unless they're okay with alienating potential clients. There are vendors who are aware their posts (on their personal FB pages) are offensive and continue to post and they still are selling stones and being recommended here, so it appears it doesn't impact business enough to stop posting controversial comments.

I'm just SO very glad the vendors that would be the top three that I'd buy from never post anything controversial! Yay.

 

[AGBF]

It is racist because it is contrasting a white woman, who said and did racist things, by her OWN admission, which we KNOW to be wrong, with a black man who has only arguably done things that are wrong. Why not contrast her with Martha Stewart, who broke the law and is still loved by the media? Or Roman Polanski, who drugged and raped a child and is still loved by the media?

distracts-

If you have been following this thread, I guess you know I think your posting is right on target, but since our position appears to be an unpopular one, I thought I's say so.

Deb

 

[dragonfly411]

It is racist because it is contrasting a white woman, who said and did racist things, by her OWN admission, which we KNOW to be wrong, with a black man who has only arguably done things that are wrong. Why not contrast her with Martha Stewart, who broke the law and is still loved by the media? Or Roman Polanski, who drugged and raped a child and is still loved by the media? The choice to defend a white woman's racism by contrasting her with a black person presented as evil/bad is inherently racist. If you can't see it, I suggest you get yourself to a local university and take a class on racism and examine your own views and values, because you probably have a lot of unexamined racist assumptions.

Then there's the whole issue where n---- is not just "a bad word." It's a racist word used to oppress black people. I am sick and tired of people defending her used of it as okay. No, it is not okay, any more than it is to call a Jew a kike or a Hispanic a wetback.

Yes, that image may not be blatantly racist, but even subtle racism is wrong. Even accidental racism is wrong. Even looking at these things and thinking they are okay is - you got it - wrong. If you are looking at these things and thinking they are okay, you are actively upholding the systematic oppression of a group of people based on their race. Racism isn't just doing actively harmful things; it is also enabling harm to be done and standing by while it is. You may not mean to be doing it, but you are, and it is really not that hard to pause and be a thinking and considerate human being.

Wow. I didn't know race had anything to do with how the man has performed his job? Perhaps you also need to look into those classes?

 

[amc80]

Wow. I didn't know race had anything to do with how the man has performed his job? Perhaps you also need to look into those classes?

The fact that the president is black means nothing to me. And I don't think it has anything to do with that FB post, either. I'm really sick of being called racist for disagreeing with policies that have nothing to do with race. Was it Morgan Freeman who said anyone who doesn't vote for Obama is racist?

 

[dragonfly411]

Wow. I didn't know race had anything to do with how the man has performed his job? Perhaps you also need to look into those classes?

The fact that the president is black means nothing to me. And I don't think it has anything to do with that FB post, either. I'm really sick of being called racist for disagreeing with policies that have nothing to do with race. Was it Morgan Freeman who said anyone who doesn't vote for Obama is racist?

Gosh I hope not!

 

[AGBF]

I didn't know race had anything to do with how the man has performed his job?

And I don't know where distracts implied that race had anything to do with how he performed it. Would you explain what you mean, please?

Deb

 

[dragonfly411]

It is racist because it is contrasting a white woman, who said and did racist things, by her OWN admission, which we KNOW to be wrong, with a black man who has only arguably done things that are wrong. Why not contrast her with Martha Stewart, who broke the law and is still loved by the media? Or Roman Polanski, who drugged and raped a child and is still loved by the media? The choice to defend a white woman's racism by contrasting her with a black person presented as evil/bad is inherently racist. If you can't see it, I suggest you get yourself to a local university and take a class on racism and examine your own views and values, because you probably have a lot of unexamined racist assumptions.

Then there's the whole issue where n---- is not just "a bad word." It's a racist word used to oppress black people. I am sick and tired of people defending her used of it as okay. No, it is not okay, any more than it is to call a Jew a kike or a Hispanic a wetback.

Yes, that image may not be blatantly racist, but even subtle racism is wrong. Even accidental racism is wrong. Even looking at these things and thinking they are okay is - you got it - wrong. If you are looking at these things and thinking they are okay, you are actively upholding the systematic oppression of a group of people based on their race. Racism isn't just doing actively harmful things; it is also enabling harm to be done and standing by while it is. You may not mean to be doing it, but you are, and it is really not that hard to pause and be a thinking and considerate human being.

How is that not basing it on race?

ETA the original image ONLY presented his job issues as viewed by the creator. NOT his race. The race was taken only into her context as a viewer.

 

[amc80]

Gosh I hope not!

FREEMAN: Mitch McConnell. Their stated policy, publicly stated, is to do whatever it takes to see to it that Obama only serves one term. What’s, what does that, what underlines that? “Screw the country. We’re going to whatever we do to get this black man, we can, we’re going to do whatever we can to get this black man outta here.”

 

[dragonfly411]

Gosh I hope not!

FREEMAN: Mitch McConnell. Their stated policy, publicly stated, is to do whatever it takes to see to it that Obama only serves one term. What’s, what does that, what underlines that? “Screw the country. We’re going to whatever we do to get this black man, we can, we’re going to do whatever we can to get this black man outta here.”

That makes me sad.

 

[Laila619]

If it offends you, all you can really do is unfriend them or say something.

 

[JewelFreak]

That's where seeing everything through the prism of race creates uproars. McConnell said nothing about race. He wanted Obama beaten in the next election because of his policies, with which McC disagrees vehemently. He would have said the same about anybody with those policies. See, I just don't get how you can inject racism into that sentence. If that's racist, what do you call the things that have been said about Alan West, for example, Clarence Thomas, Thomas Sowell?

--- Laurie

 

[ForteKitty]

As a Chinese immigrant of the 60's I have never felt racism towards me nor my family, maybe b/c we have lived in Ca. all this time and could have been different had we lived in the southern states?

DF, it happens all the time. Either you've been oblivious, or you have been lucky.

I was born and raised in Los Angeles.

When I was 12 or 13, two men turned around a corner and one bumped into me. One said, "excuse me". The other turned to him and said, "why are you apologizing to that chink? It's not like she can understand you anyway". This happened in San Diego in the 90s.

More recently, we experienced something similar when a restaurant employee in Florida called me and my friends "foreign kids" when we asked for refills, and said that "your kind is not welcome in the first place so don't ask again."

Another time, we got lost and ended up in Carson City. The man giving us directions said we got lost because we can't see out of our chinky eyes. Uh hello asswipe, our eyes were bigger than his!

 

[AGBF]

It is racist because it is contrasting a white woman, who said and did racist things, by her OWN admission, which we KNOW to be wrong, with a black man who has only arguably done things that are wrong. Why not contrast her with Martha Stewart, who broke the law and is still loved by the media? Or Roman Polanski, who drugged and raped a child and is still loved by the media? The choice to defend a white woman's racism by contrasting her with a black person presented as evil/bad is inherently racist. If you can't see it, I suggest you get yourself to a local university and take a class on racism and examine your own views and values, because you probably have a lot of unexamined racist assumptions.

Then there's the whole issue where n---- is not just "a bad word." It's a racist word used to oppress black people. I am sick and tired of people defending her used of it as okay. No, it is not okay, any more than it is to call a Jew a kike or a Hispanic a wetback.

Yes, that image may not be blatantly racist, but even subtle racism is wrong. Even accidental racism is wrong. Even looking at these things and thinking they are okay is - you got it - wrong. If you are looking at these things and thinking they are okay, you are actively upholding the systematic oppression of a group of people based on their race. Racism isn't just doing actively harmful things; it is also enabling harm to be done and standing by while it is. You may not mean to be doing it, but you are, and it is really not that hard to pause and be a thinking and considerate human being.

How is that not basing it on race?

ETA the original image ONLY presented his job issues as viewed by the creator. NOT his race. The race was taken only into her context as a viewer.

dragonfly-

Were you addressing me? If you were, I am afraid that I still do not understand what you mean. You did not quote anything I wrote so I am not sure what you are answering here.

Deb

 

[Clairitek]

I didn't know race had anything to do with how the man has performed his job?

And I don't know where distracts implied that race had anything to do with how he performed it. Would you explain what you mean, please?

Deb

I, too, am really confused about how dragonfly drew that conclusion. Waiting for an actual explanation beyond just quoting distracts' post and asking us again why we can't see what she said as racist.

 

[WinkHPD]

I have no problem with criticism. But I see a difference between constructive criticism and allegations of malfeasance just because we have differing points of view. The conversation tones today are rarely civil and that is what disgusts me. Since those who dislike the presidents policies on many things can not intelligently discuss them they decide to claim that he is destroying the country.

If someone wants to discuss his policies on Gays, fine. Criticize him for those policies, fine. Make him out to be the devil on a mission to destroy our wonderful country because of his policies, not so fine with me. Pick an issue, discuss it and be civil, all good. Try to destroy the man over a disagreement, not so good.

Is it any wonder that so many potentially great people will not stand up to run for office?

I would really not have a problem with having an intelligent discussion with someone who wished to have one and who was capable of having one, Wink. I wouldn't turn it down. I do not, however, think that intelligence or civility are prerequisites for free speech. I believe that burning the American flag should be, as it is, considered protected free speech.

And if people refuse to run for office because other citizens fail to conform to their standards, then it may not be "a wonder", but it is a shame. It is lucky that there will always be some good men and women who will heed their consciences and serve the public not because the public deserves it, but because they feel honor bound to do so.

Deb/AGBF

You are of course right that intelligence and civility are not prerequisites of free speech, and although I might punch you in the nose for burning a flag on my lawn you are more than welcome to do it on yours. I would also fight for your right to do it, all the while wishing you would not. I did not say such photos as shown at the beginning of this post should be illegal, just that the lack of respect is for the office of the President is to me, dishonorable and disgusting.

I think that you and I are much more in agreement on many things than we are apart, but I respect and support your right to our disagreements. I do however, prefer them to be polite disagreements such as we are having now without the need to try to destroy each other over them the way that so many seem to do. I would say, these days, but even a cursory examination of history shows that it has often been thus.

It is nice to "talk" with you again, it has been some time. I hope that all is well.

Wink

 

[partgypsy]

I also don't see the racism. for example insert Martha Stewart and the former president, it would still make sense. (though I have seen plenty of racist and really objectionable comments about our president). I guess the only thing that is related, is that the criticism "destroying the country" so often preceeds an actual racist comment/personal attack that we filled in the blanks.

I agree with Wink, that it really bothers me the things that people feel it's OK to say about our president. It's OK to criticize his policies, but personal attacks do not belong. I'm only in my 40's but I just feel like an old fogey, what is going on with our country? The level of discourse is so low.

Although I disagreed with the former president (very much so on some topics) it bothered me the way people disrespectfully spoke of him. Regardless, he is still our president. It contributes to the overall lack of dialog and respect on both sides of the aisle.

 

[AGBF]

As a Chinese immigrant of the 60's I have never felt racism towards me nor my family, maybe b/c we have lived in Ca. all this time and could have been different had we lived in the southern states?

DF, it happens all the time. Either you've been oblivious, or you have been lucky.

I was born and raised in Los Angeles.

When I was 12 or 13, two men turned around a corner and one bumped into me. One said, "excuse me". The other turned to him and said, "why are you apologizing to that chink? It's not like she can understand you anyway". This happened in San Diego in the 90s.

More recently, we experienced something similar when a restaurant employee in Florida called me and my friends "foreign kids" when we asked for refills, and said that "your kind is not welcome in the first place so don't ask again."

Another time, we got lost and ended up in Carson City. The man giving us directions said we got lost because we can't see out of our chinky eyes. Uh hello asswipe, our eyes were bigger than his!

You are breaking my heart, ForteKitty. I am so sorry for the little girl you were who had to suffer through those assaults. I am so glad that my own daughter did not have to suffer through them. I wish I could hug you.

Deb

 

[WinkHPD]

Thanks Deb.
I've been knowing Wink for about as long as you.
Wink is one of the best people I've met in this industry. Even though we sell the same type of products- and maybe even to the some of the same people, I consider him a friend




:edited out silly joke as to not risk offending anyone:

Seriously, competitors can be great friends. In a perfect world they would all be

Wow, between you and Deb I find that it is raining in my eyes, darn that humidity.

Thank you both for your kind words.

Wink

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I find this to be more a political item than a race item.

Yep, exactly.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

As a Chinese immigrant of the 60's I have never felt racism towards me nor my family, maybe b/c we have lived in Ca. all this time and could have been different had we lived in the southern states?

DF, it happens all the time. Either you've been oblivious, or you have been lucky.

I was born and raised in Los Angeles.

When I was 12 or 13, two men turned around a corner and one bumped into me. One said, "excuse me". The other turned to him and said, "why are you apologizing to that chink? It's not like she can understand you anyway". This happened in San Diego in the 90s.

More recently, we experienced something similar when a restaurant employee in Florida called me and my friends "foreign kids" when we asked for refills, and said that "your kind is not welcome in the first place so don't ask again."

Another time, we got lost and ended up in Carson City. The man giving us directions said we got lost because we can't see out of our chinky eyes. Uh hello asswipe, our eyes were bigger than his!

I think that is appalling, FK! You are so beautiful, and I would think that is what most people would be thinking upon meeting you!

And DF, I live in the south and my daughter is Chinese, and as far as I know, she has never encountered racist comments. Well, a little boy in school one time asked her why she had "alien eyes", but I count that as the ignorance of a child and not racist.

 

[Dancing Fire]

As a Chinese immigrant of the 60's I have never felt racism towards me nor my family, maybe b/c we have lived in Ca. all this time and could have been different had we lived in the southern states?

DF, it happens all the time. Either you've been oblivious, or you have been lucky.

I was born and raised in Los Angeles.

When I was 12 or 13, two men turned around a corner and one bumped into me. One said, "excuse me". The other turned to him and said, "why are you apologizing to that chink? It's not like she can understand you anyway". This happened in San Diego in the 90s.

More recently, we experienced something similar when a restaurant employee in Florida called me and my friends "foreign kids" when we asked for refills, and said that "your kind is not welcome in the first place so don't ask again."

Another time, we got lost and ended up in Carson City. The man giving us directions said we got lost because we can't see out of our chinky eyes. Uh hello asswipe, our eyes were bigger than his!

FK,WOW! that happened in a big city like LA ? . ..I have been living here in the US for over 40 yrs and I can't even remember one time that some one called me a "chinaman".

 

[Gypsy]

I think all vendors should remain silent on anything controversial, politics, abortion, religion, anything! ... regardless of if I like or dislike the 'side' they pick.

Business is about making money, not spreading views.
Spreading views will make some customers go bye bye.

This. If your FB page is your business name... keep it professional. If it is your personal page, do what you want-- but make sure you have that boundary and don't cross it.

That said, I support, agree with and second Winks comments in this thread.