Puppy in Surgery....

[divergrrl]

Scintillating...

So so so so sorry, I can''t believe your baby got attacked! I really hope he is feeling better now & heals quick. I hope that dog owner ponies up and pays your vet bill, since her dog is obviously an ill-mannered, anti-social piece of cr@p.

I never knew that about chocolate labs, I always thought labs were really happy go lucky.

The thing that bugs me about the dog park, is that the owners with the ill-socialized dogs are always the last to know. How could they not know?

Give us an update & give puppykins some yummy hamburger for dinner.

Jeannine

 

[aussiegirl23]

so sorry about your poor dog : (

my neighbor's over-the-top bouncy, happy, friendly, harmless chocolate lab is sending his best... and his apologies for one of his own being so awful!

i've never met a mean lab... this one sounds like it might have some abusive parents possibly?? ETA: or something else horrible going on to make it act so atrociously!

hope all is well!

Aussie

 

[Lorelei]

So sorry to hear this, thank goodness your pups will be ok. What a terrible thing to happen.

 

[~*Alexis*~]

Sorry to hear about your dog! We take our dogs to the dog park and both of them just want to play. We have a committee that oversees the park and there is a rule about dogs, if it snarls at other dogs it is not allowed.

CHOCOLATE LABS:
My parents are lab breeders, the choc''s get a bad name and a bad reputation.
Chocolate labs do NOT have a mean temperment. It is from how they are raised. If they have been abused in the past or have been mistreated they will attack anything that seems to be a threat. Chocolate labs are genuinly friendly and loving. The labs that are bred mean like that have either had something done to them or they were bred to close with generational lines. this happens when breeders cannot find anothe line to breed with so they skip a generation and mate their''s with their grandchildren. The lines are far enough apart to not have disableling affects.

I am sorry to hear about the dog though. Dogs like that should be put down. It sounds mean but if they attack other dogs than they could potentially attack humans. I would make sure you follow up with the owner and make sure that you will be filing a claim with the city and requesting for the dog to be put down, it may not be the route that you wanted to take, but trust me I know dogs and they are bette off that way.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

How is the pooch today? On the mend, I hope.

cheers--Sharon

 

[Mara]

i don't know alexis, requesting that the dog be put down seems a pretty harsh response to me. of course it's horrible that scint's dog was attacked and hurt, but i don't know that i could request for someone's pet to be put down in response.

dogs are unpredictable....i don't think that this lab HAS to have been mistreated or similar in it's past for it to react in an extreme manner. maybe it just freaked out or got scared or maybe it just is not properly socialized to interact with other dogs. some of it could be the owner's fault of course as well. dogs are only as good as their owners have trained them to be, IMO.

i'd like to think that with some training the dog could be more personable of a creature. maybe some extra socialization classes. who knows. but i'd hate to think that someone could lose their dog because their dog is a spazz or overprotective of their human or something. as humans i don't think that many people (myself included) really UNDERSTAND dogs and why they act the way they do at all times. i think that other methods should be tried before just deciding to put the dog down or to even ask it of someone. that IS someone's pet.

maybe that is an idealistic kind of view, but there it is.

 

[~*Alexis*~]

I will say in response to Mara, yes putting down someones dog is something that would be a last resort, however once a dog has attacked another dog it will have a tendancy to act out against those feelings again. Treatment will not always work. In most cases treatment makes things worse and dogs see it as a sign of agression against their pets.

The dog that attacked in question-
I would have them mandatory training and obedience classes. If after those classes they show signs of agression then I would recommend that they be put down, especially if the dog he attacked did nothing to provoke it in the first place. Dogs will attack if they feel as though they are threatened, however if her dog just walked up to it and was not acting in a offensive way then their is something wrong with their dog.

 

[Mara]

scint...i know you mentioned that the owner seemed responsive to what had happened....i agree that i would try to get her to put her dog into some sort of obedience classes or extra socialization classes or similar with an experienced trainer, and see what can be done to assist...because yes if the dog DOES continue to act like this, one would hope it''s a red flag for the owner, but sometimes owners are totally oblivious. and you wouldn''t want this to happen to anyone else, but reporting it and requesting that the dog be put down for me is the last thing i''d want to do...only if the owner shows absolutely no care for fixing the situation kinda thing (alexis we agree on that point!).

 

[Demelza]

Date: 9/18/2006 10:38:27 AM
Author: ~*Alexis*~
Sorry to hear about your dog! We take our dogs to the dog park and both of them just want to play. We have a committee that oversees the park and there is a rule about dogs, if it snarls at other dogs it is not allowed.


CHOCOLATE LABS:

My parents are lab breeders, the choc's get a bad name and a bad reputation.

Chocolate labs do NOT have a mean temperment. It is from how they are raised. If they have been abused in the past or have been mistreated they will attack anything that seems to be a threat. Chocolate labs are genuinly friendly and loving. The labs that are bred mean like that have either had something done to them or they were bred to close with generational lines. this happens when breeders cannot find anothe line to breed with so they skip a generation and mate their's with their grandchildren. The lines are far enough apart to not have disableling affects.


I am sorry to hear about the dog though. Dogs like that should be put down. It sounds mean but if they attack other dogs than they could potentially attack humans. I would make sure you follow up with the owner and make sure that you will be filing a claim with the city and requesting for the dog to be put down, it may not be the route that you wanted to take, but trust me I know dogs and they are bette off that way.

I, too, am very sorry to hear about the dog attack and hope that Scint's dog is making a full and speedy recovery. Howard was attacked once by a Rottweiler who got out of his yard, and, while the damage was minimal, it was very scary indeed. I wasn't strong enough to get this dog off of Howard, and, luckily, a neighbor tending his yard came to Howard's rescue. I hate to think what might have happened if no one was there to help. The owners paid for all the vet bills and sent me flowers, but it was an awful, awful experience. My heart goes out to you, Scint!

Having said that, I DON'T at all agree that Scint should request this dog be put down. Perhaps this dog is a repeat offender and perhaps he has attacked human beings, but perhaps not. None of us here know his history and I don't think it's at all reasonable at this point to request the dog be destroyed. There are many experts who feel that dog parks are a disaster waiting to happen, in part because no one can predict exactly how two dogs will interact, even if neither dog has a history of being aggressive. Clearly, this chocolate lab should NOT be allowed to visit dog parks and it's the owner's fault for taking him there. I don't think we can assume, however, that he is or will be vicious with people.

I'm not at all trying to discount how awful and devastating this attack was, but requesting this animal be destroyed is NOT how I would proceed.

 

[~*Alexis*~]

I was not stating that I thought it was what should be done immediately. It was something that MIGHT need to be done, and I am a dog lover, have been all my life and wouldnt want something put down just because. However, IF the dog did attack, the likelihood of it happening again are high. I do not know this dog personally, however, if she got it from a shelter or someplace else before it was a full year then it would explain the behavior. Thats all that I was saying, and I was just offering some first hand experience as a breeder. Thats all.

I am not saying take the dog straight to hells door, I was just making an observation with the first hand experience through breeding and through show.

 

[Mara]

I think much of how I would personally proceed would have to do with the owner''s response and their reaction. Are they going to just blithely ignore the fact that their dog could be a menace to other dogs and continue with the dog park visits and let the dog off leash to do whatever it wants? Or are they open to getting the dog extra socializing or training or going into owner training themselves or something?

I honestly would HATE to be the person requesting that another person''s pet be put to sleep...but sometimes I guess that is the only way, sometimes dogs ARE damaged inside mentally and there''s no recourse. Who''s decision is that though? Whenever I hear about one dog mauling another or whatever and the authorities getting involved and the dog who attacked is typically put to sleep, that drives me nuts. I always think why don''t they try to HELP the dog first? There have been bad rescue cases who are able to be rehabilitated into great pets. And good owners know their dogs triggers and what to keep them away from. I hate the thought of the authorities telling an owner to put their pet to sleep without giving them other options as well.

But anyway, I would really hope that the owner is open to suggestions as to how to get her dog help in the future so that this does not happen again. Good luck Scint whatever you decide..and hope your pup is doing well too.

 

[lizz]

We have a black lab. We got her at 8 weeks from this family who was giving away puppies in the Wal-Mart parking lot. She is now 2 1/2 years old. Who knows what they or anyone else did to scare her, but she is generally afraid of everything. She''s gotten a lot better now because we try to expose her to people and other dogs as much as we can so she won''t always be so scared. But she used to be deathly afraid of all dogs and people. We purposely take her to the doggie park as much as we can to socialize her. And when we board her (which is only 2x/year), she gets to be around other dogs. The lady who runs the boarding kennel said that our dog may turn out to be "a fear biter" unless she was socialized more. She told us this when we first got her, so we have tried our best to socialize her. She''s never bitten or attacked anyone or another animal. She''s a sweet, docile animal, but evidently something in her past made her so afraid of everything. She is now brave in approaching people and dogs. She is curious, but gets a little scared if a dog sniffs her for too long.

 

[FireGoddess]

It seems the first and imperative course of action is for that woman to leash her dog in public, period. No exceptions, considering he''s attacked other dogs recently and possibly before this.

If the owner fails to do this, the next step would be to legally impose some sort of ''house/property arrest'' on the dog. Of course, this would be the owner''s fault, considering a simple leash and a mindful eye would have been sufficient in the first place. I recall a woman who had a cat that attacked people was ordered to keep the cat under house arrest.

If the owner fails to do this, then putting the dog to sleep would be the last and final option. Not what one would hope for, but sometimes the only alternative.

 

[fire&ice]

Perhaps I missed the info - but what is the age of the poodle & the status of whether the pup is neutered?

A dog who attacks another dog is not more likely to do it again unless something was gained from the attack.

Suggesting that this dog be put down is - at best - premature & quite radical. No one knows the history of this dog, the circumstances of the attack & it is no indication that the dog will attack humans.

I hope the pup is on the mend quickly! Please give us an update.

 

[littlelysser]

I must chime in here...

Alexis - If you read your post, you are clearly saying that this dog needs to be put down. Not that it maybe should...or if training doesn''t work...and I could not disagree more. The fact that your parents breed labs makes your statement all the more disturbing.

My Ibizan Hound was attacked at the dog park by a golden retriever. I would NEVER have even suggested that the golden be put down for that reason. I asked that the dog not be back to the park - which is reasonable. Asking that the dog be killed? Entirely unreasonable.

There is a huge difference between dog aggressive dogs and dogs that are aggressive with humans. I have known a number of dogs that were not good with other dogs, but are wonderful pets. A dog should not be put down simply because it cannot go to an offleash area and play well with other dogs. There are simple solutions to this problem that do not require that the dog be put down. Walking the dog with a muzzle when it is outside, not taking the dog to dogparks, behavior modification. Being a responsible owner - particularly with a dog aggressive dog - is the best way to prevent any future problems.

Anyway...The reason I was writing is to wish Scint''s pup good health and to see if we had gotten an update...So good thoughts Scint and pupper!

 

[Cehrabehra]

wow, I am so sorry! I''ve known of one other lab that was like that but usually they''re so sweet and docile! I wonder what those owners are like - are they paying the med bills? I hope pup is okay! I''ll read through...

 

[Cehrabehra]

Also, I''m quite sure it''s a Chocolate lab, and have not confused it with a Cheasapeake Bay retriever. I''m not implying in anyway that all Chocolate''s are bad dogs.

the other one I was talking about was also a chocolate. I never thought there was anything tweaky about them though... we have a yellow and she''s a bean bag.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 9/18/2006 11:52:01 AM
Author: Mara
i don''t know alexis, requesting that the dog be put down seems a pretty harsh response to me. of course it''s horrible that scint''s dog was attacked and hurt, but i don''t know that i could request for someone''s pet to be put down in response.

dogs are unpredictable....i don''t think that this lab HAS to have been mistreated or similar in it''s past for it to react in an extreme manner. maybe it just freaked out or got scared or maybe it just is not properly socialized to interact with other dogs. some of it could be the owner''s fault of course as well. dogs are only as good as their owners have trained them to be, IMO.

i''d like to think that with some training the dog could be more personable of a creature. maybe some extra socialization classes. who knows. but i''d hate to think that someone could lose their dog because their dog is a spazz or overprotective of their human or something. as humans i don''t think that many people (myself included) really UNDERSTAND dogs and why they act the way they do at all times. i think that other methods should be tried before just deciding to put the dog down or to even ask it of someone. that IS someone''s pet.

maybe that is an idealistic kind of view, but there it is.

we requested the neighbor''s dog be put down after it attacked my son (he still has scars on his face at 7 and this happened when he was 2) and they refused. They refused to pay medical as well even though they brought their dog on my property on a leash and my son was beside me holding my hand and not even looking at the dog. They did not have the dog in control and he bit my son''s face about 5 times, leaving only one major puncture in the middle of his cheek. We had to live next door to that freaking dog for another 4 years and we still own the house and have tenants there and that dog is still there. coincidental note: when we got the dog''s paperwork the dog was born on the *exact* day as my son that he bit... same day, same year. All we wanted was for them to get rid of the dog, somehow anyhow and they refused. The laws here are written that if a dog attacks a chicken it is put down. But even if a dog KILLS a person it can get off.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 9/18/2006 3:03:32 PM
Author: FireGoddess
It seems the first and imperative course of action is for that woman to leash her dog in public, period. No exceptions, considering he''s attacked other dogs recently and possibly before this.

If the owner fails to do this, the next step would be to legally impose some sort of ''house/property arrest'' on the dog. Of course, this would be the owner''s fault, considering a simple leash and a mindful eye would have been sufficient in the first place. I recall a woman who had a cat that attacked people was ordered to keep the cat under house arrest.

If the owner fails to do this, then putting the dog to sleep would be the last and final option. Not what one would hope for, but sometimes the only alternative.

leash and muzzle.

 

[ChargerGrrl]

sorry that i''m chiming in late.

just wanted to send my best wishes and good vibes from one dog lover to another.

it''s clear that BOTH the lab and owner need training and coaching from a professional.

This is a case for the "dog whisperer!" He has a book out that i''ve been meaning to buy. I would make a gentle suggestion that the lab owner read it.

GOOD LUCK!!

 

[~*Alexis*~]

Date: 9/19/2006 10:03:23 AM
Author: littlelysser
I must chime in here...

Alexis - If you read your post, you are clearly saying that this dog needs to be put down. Not that it maybe should...or if training doesn''t work...and I could not disagree more. The fact that your parents breed labs makes your statement all the more disturbing.

My Ibizan Hound was attacked at the dog park by a golden retriever. I would NEVER have even suggested that the golden be put down for that reason. I asked that the dog not be back to the park - which is reasonable. Asking that the dog be killed? Entirely unreasonable.

There is a huge difference between dog aggressive dogs and dogs that are aggressive with humans. I have known a number of dogs that were not good with other dogs, but are wonderful pets. A dog should not be put down simply because it cannot go to an offleash area and play well with other dogs. There are simple solutions to this problem that do not require that the dog be put down. Walking the dog with a muzzle when it is outside, not taking the dog to dogparks, behavior modification. Being a responsible owner - particularly with a dog aggressive dog - is the best way to prevent any future problems.

Anyway...The reason I was writing is to wish Scint''s pup good health and to see if we had gotten an update...So good thoughts Scint and pupper!

I stated that it should be put down when the dog attacks if it shows signs of aggression. Not just because or just for the hell of it. As for the statement that you find it disturbing that I would suggest it, disturbs me quite frankly. Are you a breeder? No probably not, have you trained dogs? Probably not, had them for show? I cannot say. i was relying on my experience with dogs as a breeder and as a lover. I love my dogs, however, if my dog attacked someone or another living breathing thing, then I would take that into consideration of the actions that came as a result.
Yes, there are dogs that can play well with children and not play with other dogs, however I am stating that if that dog was not provoked in any way their would be the liklihood of another attack. Not necessarily against humans, but other things as well.
was your dog mauled? Did it need emergancy surgery? Stiches, just because one dog lunges at another dog and does not get hurt does not constitute it being put down, HOWEVER, if that dog ripped open the skin to cause irrepuable harm then that might constitute it being put down. I am not a dog killer, or a person that just wants all the bad doggies gone away but you have to figure that if that dog attacked and the owner unknowingly tried to break up the dog fight (which one should NEVER do!) he would have caused harm to them as well. Just my point.

Cehrabehra-
Thanks for the input. I would not want to live next to a dog that attacked a child for no reason. I am sorry you and your family had to go through that.

Scint- whats the latest? How is the pooch doing?

 

[dani13]

Scint-

Sorry I am late chiming in here....but I just wanted to say, I am very sorry this happenned to your precious puppy. I know how much our animals are truly a part of our families- my dog is like my baby!!!! As far as the whole "putting the other dog down" debate though, I dont think I am going to touch that one. My dog is the sweetest thing- with his family only though. I WOULD NOT trust him with other animals or other people at all. The bottom line is that the lab should have never been off leash- I dont think any animal should unless it was in their own backyard. Being off leash is the perfect setup for disaster....

Anyway, I hope your little guy gets better soon!!! Give him a big kiss for me!

 

[KristyDarling]

What a horrible thing to have happened!

I am so very, very sorry. I hope he gets better real soon. Lots of hugs to that poor baby dog.

It IS odd that a lab would go on the attack like that. And so viciously. I hope that dog''s owner will never, ever let her dog offleash again. He sounds like he needs some serious behavior modification...or even meds like Prozac. He needs serious help.

 

[Scintillating]

Hi everybody!

Thanks so much for the support! My Fur-baby is doing better. He's resting comfortably thanks to Tramadol and Amoxicillin. Unfortunately, the stitches are starting to hurt/itch so he's trying to scratch them with his hind leg - Oye* what a disaster that would be if he ripped them open. I'm staying home with him for the next couple of days, and then he's going into Grandma and Grandpa day care.

As far as the medical bills are concerned well... I called them about them on friday and let them know I expected them to pay for his medical care. They don't speak much english - maybe they felt threatened - they hung up on me. So I had my fiance, an attorney, send them a letter explaining that I expected them to pay the bills and was going to file a suit in small claims court. I filed the paperwork in district court on Monday; hopefully they will come to their senses and just reimburse me before we have to go to court.

Question: If your dog injured another dog would you offer to pay the medical bills?
(I'm biased because I know that I would, I'd feel so bad about it.)

As far as putting the chocolate lab down? Nah, I'm sure they love him as much as I love my dog - accidents DO happen. I just want them to make it right. I want them to walk him on leash; especially now that we know he IS dangerous.

I did report it to the police. It think it's VERY important that the incident be documented so that should another incident occur and *a person* be attacked there is record of previous violence. I don't presently know if the dog has attacked anyone else (dog or human) , I'm curious to find out.

As far as both dogs being off leash? My dog was in a designated play area. Dogs are social creatures and it's important for them to play and be with other dogs and people. The more that a dog is socialized to other dogs and people the *safer* and more predictable the dog they will be - It is very important! (Socialization should start at about 4-5 months and continue on.) It does need to be a safe place to play, where "un-socialized" dogs can't just happen upon and cause an incident.


Thanks guys.
I thought about posting a picture of my baby's injuries, but thought better of it. It's pretty graphic.

Scintillating...

 

[~*Alexis*~]

Thats great that he is doing better. I think you are doing the right thing. I would make sure that they have a translator to communicate what is happening if they do not understand it. Hope for the best!

*hugs*

 

[Scintillating]

Here''s a picture of Marquis a couple years ago.
He''s a little lighter in color now. He''s 6 years old.

Scintillating...

 

[Scintillating]

Another picture of Marquis with my Mother on a hike.
He is a great dog!

Scintillating...

 

[Morticia]

To answer your question, YES I would definitely pay the vet bills if my dog attacked and hurt another dog. Without hesitation. They should pay for Marquis''s vet bills.

 

[Mara]

awww what a cutie he is.

i would DEFINITELY pay the medical bills, i''d feel horrible about it and want to do whatever i could if it was my dog that did that!

 

[fire&ice]

Yeah, the worst part about the stiches is when they start to itch. I wonder if the vet can give you some sort of topical suave to ease the itch. I''ve used Aloe in mine.

Yes, I would definitely pay the vet bills if my dog caused a problem.

When a child is attacked, it''s an ENTIRELY different thing all together; and, likely falls under the law.