Please help with sapphire stone for e-ring!

[WH]

hi everyone! this is my first post on the forum and was hoping to get some advice on the stone in the following link: http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Blue/B2610/Cushion/stoneid=B2610

i really love the color and the cut but am pretty clueless about sapphires. my bf and i had originally decided on getting a diamond for an engagement ring but after i tried on a sapphire ring, i knew for sure that i preferred sapphires over diamonds! (of course, he''s really happy about that since sapphires are cheaper than diamonds) is this sapphire stone from NSC which I posted a good cut? after staring at it for half an hour, i suddenly realized that it may have a "window" although i''m not entirely certain if there is one, just that i''ve heard many folks make reference to "windowing". is this a good price for the stone? are there any comparable stones out there that may be of better value? any help and thoughts would really greatly appreciated - thanks in advance!!

 

[SB621]

Have you contacted them about the sapphire yet? I would definitely call or email them and have them answer some questions about the stone before you purchase. I always thought NSC a little $$. With that said your sapphire is beautiful- I'm hoping your the person who has it on hold! I love the color and cushion cut. I'm not an expert and I don'thave "eagle eyes" but I do not see a window.

I believe Chrono or D&T posted this and I saved it and use it now to ask questions about some gemstones. I find it extremely helpful!

Pictures: I always ask for a side view to check out the depth of the stone and also to see how off center the culet might be. It also sometimes helps to spot colour zoning and other inclusion not viewable from the table.

Extinction: I ask how much extinction it has. I cannot accept a stone with more than 20% extinction. The less the better. Extinction is areas where the stone is dark and does not reflect light (shows no colour)

Windows: I can spot this in the picture but I still ask anyway just in case.

Secondary colour or undertone: I don't want gray or brown (or in some cases yellow) undertones. Pictures cannot accurately capture everything so I ask about this.

Clarity: As with all gemstones, I just ask if the inclusions will affect the integrity of the stone. I go for eye clean stones so I know there might be feathers or internal fractures, etc and want to be sure it's safe to set and wear.

Colour: I try to be explicit as possible. I told AJS I wanted a stop light red and I got one. I also asked about the saturation as I wanted it to be as vivid and bright as possible. This is at the TOP of my list because this is what make a gemstone attractive.

 

[WH]

thanks so much, sarahbear! I''m so glad you don''t see a window, it may just be me being paranoid. we haven''t really been sapphire-shopping in real life so i haven''t seen what they call a "window" to be able to identify it...

I called NSC immediately after seeing this stone because i thought it was so beautiful and had them put it on hold for me! luckily, we live in manhattan so we made an appointment with NSC to view the stone in person on saturday. i believe they''re usually only open from mondays to fridays but they agreed to open their offices for us on saturday morning which i thought was amazing. we definitely wouldn''t have been able to view the stone in person otherwise

as for NSC''s $$$, we''re viewing their higher prices as a premium we pay for their service, expertise and reputation... as much research as we''ve done, i feel like you could put a crappy sapphire and a beautiful sapphire next to each other and i might not be able to tell the difference! guess we don''t mind paying a little extra to make sure we don''t get cheated of our money..

 

[ma re]

I do see a window in that stone, but it''s not something that would worry me if the color would be according to my wishes. Also, a high saturation of color will mask the window to some degree, and windows as small as this one often "close up" completelly once the stone is set. THIS link can give you a bit of an insight about what''s important and how to spot a good stone more easily.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

The color is nice, it does have a small window. If you go to view it, I would hold it up against the light to see it at its worst, and than place it in a setting to see what it will look like in most lighting situations. I have a sapphire with a window that is a bit smaller than that. Most of the time I never see it, but it comes out in bright afternoon light sometimes. The color is nice, and the face up size is nice for the ct weight. The price is a bit on the high side, but it is also unheated.

Are you only considering unheated sapphires? They add a premium to the cost. Many of us are willing to look at sapphires that were heated with no other treatments.

Just to keep your options open, here are some other vendors:

Richard Wise: He has an unwindowed sapphire in the 2 ct range that is heated. No price listed (usually means $$$$). Click here for RW Wise sapphire.

Rick at art cut gems and sourced some nice sapphires for others looking for an e-ring. He has a 5 ct beauty which I am sure is pricy, but it is nice eye candy
His website Art Cut Gems

Wink Jones has also sourced some nice e-ring stones http://www.winkjones.com/. He is a dealer for Pala Gems, which is a supplies gemstones to different venders. You can look at their innovatory at their website but need to call a dealer for prices. It is worth going on to the website for the sapphire education.

Also, before buying I read several of the older threads on this site, as well as Richard Wise''s book. Hope this helps.

 

[chrono]

The colour looks very pretty but I’m not able to see much liveliness or brilliance in the stone, probably due to the cutting. The stone is also slightly windowed because it is shallow with the last few angles not close to being optimum. I consider the stone an average native cut; not problematic enough to warrant a re-cut. I expect the window might “close” in the right setting. Colour wise, though, it is a saturated stone with an attractive blue. Price-wise, it is somewhat expensive.

 

[adams828]

WH - the color does look nice for a darker shade! I can''t say much about the window, really you can best tell once you see it in person. It is really great you can go visit NSC to see the stone! I think at that point you will be able to tell if it is the "one" for you or not.

I did much research for sapphires, including NSC, and completely understand your thoughts on paying a bit more if it gives you a sense of security. However personally I would not hold them as the only vendor to deliver that - there is a list at the top of this forum that has some other options to check out.

One thing I might advise is search the forum and read up on some of the debates between "native" and precision gem cuts. It will be just another thing to help you make a well-informed decision, either way you go.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 11/6/2009 8:10:23 AM
Author: adams828


One thing I might advise is search the forum and read up on some of the debates between ''native'' and precision gem cuts. It will be just another thing to help you make a well-informed decision, either way you go.

ditto what adams has said.
I must admit, I''m not a fan of the cutting on that stone. Doesn''t seem like it would be very brilliant/sparkly etc..and does appear to have a small window.
But it''s not for me, it''s for you

All I would suggest before deciding to go 100% with NSC, is consider you can obtain a precision cut (or a native cut if that is more your thing), from one of the recommended cutters for considerably less $$.
I have to admit, having just completed my own sapphire search and being extremely happy with every element of the result, I was quite taken aback at the price on that stone you linked...
There''s a premium for service etc, and than there''s well - getting taken for a ride.
Imho, NSC''s prices are heading toward the latter.

Sorry, I don''t mean to be a "debbie downer" - just offering my perspective.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 11/6/2009 8:10:23 AM
Author: adams828


One thing I might advise is search the forum and read up on some of the debates between 'native' and precision gem cuts. It will be just another thing to help you make a well-informed decision, either way you go.

ditto what adams has said.
I must admit, I'm not a fan of the cutting on that stone. Doesn't seem like it would be very brilliant/sparkly etc..and does appear to have a small window.
But it's not for me, it's for you

All I would suggest before deciding to go 100% with NSC, is consider you can obtain a precision cut (or a native cut if that is more your thing), from one of the recommended cutters for considerably less $$.
I have to admit, having just completed my own sapphire search and being extremely happy with every element of the result (<< see avatar

), I was quite taken aback at the price on that stone you linked...
There's a premium for service etc, and than there's well - getting taken for a ride.
Imho, NSC's prices are heading toward the latter.

Sorry, I don't mean to be a "debbie downer" - just offering my perspective.

 

[chrono]

To add to what has been advised above, there are also better native cut stones out there with good colour. The colour on the NSC seems good but the cutting is too poor for my taste, and I''m one who always champions good native cutting.

 

[WH]

wow... thanks everyone! just goes to show that I still have a great deal to learn and so glad I found this forum. i''ll definitely check out all the links and recommended vendors. some of the vendors (apart from NSC and cherrypicked) seem to be based outside of Manhattan and we''re a little nervous about buying a stone sight unseen...any thoughts on that?

I really like the RW Wise stone that ltlsapphire linked, however, i think our preference is to go for a stone that is not heat enhanced. I know different people have different views on heat treatment, and I can''t decide if I don''t care or if I want my e-ring stone to be completely natural and rare. i''d say that i wouldnt care about having a natural stone if this stone weren''t for an e-ring, but i''m afraid that for an e-ring, it might bug me that the stone is not completely natural... any thoughts??

i thought the process of searching for a diamond was confusing - searching for a sapphire seems even more daunting!

 

[WH]

oh and arjunajane - ur stone is gorgeous!

 

[chrono]

I understand wanting it to be different and special since it is an e-ring stone. If you think diamond shopping is hard, coloured gemstones shopping is at least twice as difficult. For diamonds, all you need are numbers to get the cut right. In the coloured gemstone world, they are a ton of variables, even with the colour category alone.

 

[WH]

just wanted to update - we went to NSC today to look at some stones and all of you were right - the stone i picked out has gorgeous and amazing color but wasn''t very lively. i''m actually not a fan of too much sparkle/brilliance in a stone (is that strange?) but this was a little too dead for me. hopefully with luck, we''ll find a perfect stone somewhere else...

 

[AustenNut]

Thanks for the update, WH. I would definitely contact one of the precision cutters to see if they have something that might work for you. Or you could mention your preferred budget, size, shape, etc, and have the PSers do some browsing online for you.

As far as ordering a stone online, most of the recommended vendors have generous return periods, so all you pay for is return shipping. Just a thought.

 

[WH]

thanks austennut! we just contacted jeff white so hopefully he can help us out..

I''m looking for a 2.5-3+ carat blue sapphire, unheated, in an oval/cushion cut. i recently saw some threads of pad sapphires though and they are so amazing! i would definitely consider pad sapphires too (2.5-3+ carat, in any cut except round). i was told by a jeweler that pad sapphires are much pricier because they''re much rarer (even if heated), so i''m thinking that maybe i wouldn''t mind a heated pad sapphire either...

 

[WH]

i was looking at these two stones, but i dont think they''re eye clean and that bugs me..

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Padparadscha/PA2/Radiant/stoneid=PA2
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Padparadscha/PA2036/Cushion/stoneid=PA2036

(sorry, I''m a newbie, don''t know how to link to pages properly!)

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Date: 11/7/2009 6:25:13 PM
Author: WH
i''m actually not a fan of too much sparkle/brilliance in a stone (is that strange?)

Nah, I actually adore my native cut blue sapphire! It''s not as sparkly as my precision cut stones, but I love how it seems to glimmer and glow just below the surface. It''s more like the dappled afternoon reflections off a deep river, I like watching it as I type since the shadows and light chase each other around on the step cuts. I for one think a WELL CUT native cut stone can have a certain quiet charm to it!

I''m also a big fan of pads, I bought a .5ct one from NSC back in March and I love it to pieces! I went in person and had them show me some loose AND I saw the ones they had set. Wouldn''t you know it, I fell for one that was already set, but they were nice enough to remove it and sell it to me loose. So I might take a look at their jewelery section too.

Best of luck!

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Here you go, fixed your links

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Padparadscha/PA2/Radiant/stoneid=PA2

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Padparadscha/PA2036/Cushion/stoneid=PA2036

 

[WH]

Thanks! I was browsing NSC''s website again (i should stop) and found this one which i think is just perfect and beautiful, and was wondering what u experts thought of it. there seems to be no window and it looks like a good color to me for a pad but not sure if the price is too steep?

(finally figured out the html!)

 

[chrono]

Padparadschas are even more difficult to purchase so I steer away from that unless absolutely necessary. There is the issue of what is and isn’t a padparadscha which is what I’m still grappling with.

ETA
None of the links worked for me except for the orange pink sapphire.

 

[AustenNut]

MTG's fixed links didn't work for me either. Here's another attempt at making the links clickable:

1st link

2nd link

I like most of the color in the 1st pad, but that little burst of bright pink in the center sort of makes it seem off. I know pads are supposed to be some combo of pink and orange (or a pinky orange overall color) but that splash seems to be appear more like an unwanted accident than a thing of beauty. But I prefer this stone to the 2nd one. And it may be that when seen in person and not magnified 40x that the pink marking in the center isn't as noticeable, or is actually quite pleasant.

I'm not a big fan of the second stone, as it seems less saturated and perhaps with some zoning (is that where it's very uneven color?).

The last sapphire you posted, well, that one is definitely my favorite of the three pads. Beautiful, delicate color on it and certainly the one that I'd be most thrilled to get.

My one caution about pads is to be very careful about picking one that will complement your future fiancee's skintone. I know that even in regards to other stones (usually in the orange, yellow, peach, or brown families) that some people find that the stone is too close to their own skintone, or something, and that it doesn't actually compliment them even though the stone itself is beautiful. Just something to think about.

LtlFirecracker posted some nice blue stones for you to look at in her earlier thread. Did any of those appeal to you? When I get home (and get access to all of my bookmarks

) I'll browse around a bit too.

ETA: Corrected the first link.

 

[chrono]

Austen,
The first link is back to this very thread.

 

[AustenNut]

Thanks, Chrono. It''s now fixed.

 

[WH]

austen, actually that''s a great point. the whole point of the blue sapphire was that it was beautiful against the skin so a pad may not be as pretty when worn.

the only stone which we thought we might be interested in was this one (hope the link works). however the color seems to be a little too light than what would be ideal for us and the price (given that it''s 5 carats) might be more than our budget. unfortunately, everything else that we saw and liked was heat treated, which we''ve decided is not what we want...

 

[chrono]

Wow, the colour of that sapphire is NOT too light at all. It’s just perfect; any darker and it starts to get into the inky category.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

That last one is a gorgeous blue!

 

[MakingTheGrade]

You might want to check this out
http://www.artcutgems.com/item.php?item_id=710

It's 5ct and unheated and a lovely blue from the photos.

ETA: whoops, Ltl beat me to it!

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Heres one from ATG
2.87 ct, unheated, native cut, $7220

They also have some small pad sapphires listed (atggems.com). I love my pad sapphire, it isn't the most flattering thing for my asian skin tone, but I just stare at it all day anyways!

 

[WH]

i called palagems and asked about the 5 carat sapphire - it''s $40k and definitely beyond our budget!

we saw the artcutgems one which is gorgeous - but my mum thinks its bad luck to buy a stone from someone else who''s selling it due to illness in the family (chinese superstition?)

makingthegrade: that sapphire u posted is beautiful! thanks! we''ll definitely consider that!

while we''re at it, any thoughts on these?

3.02 carats - unheated. i was told this was $12080 and not sure if that''s a fair price or not

3.35 carats - can''t tell if it''s unheated or not but will give them a call to find out