Padparadscha Sapphires-- Where To Find?

[Jsmith8]

Hello everyone,

I am a relatively new member but longtime lurker. I have become interested in Padparadscha Sapphires recently and adore the colors they come in. I''ve found some threads by PS members about BE Padparadscha Sapphires and other heated/treated sapphires. I was wondering what exactly that means and what the difference is? I would be interested in a treated stone if it still looks amazing so maybe I am misunderstanding something.

Besides The Natural Sapphire Company where can I find more information and loose Padparadscha Sapphires?

Thank you all!

 

[Jsmith8]

Like for example--

This site

http://www.thaigem.com/shop/index.asp?gemstone=sunset+padparadscha+sapphire&sortshape=&size_width=Length&size_length=Width&sortprice_unit=&sortweight=between&weight_from=.90&weight_to=2.50&sortqty=Specific&qty_from=1&type_shop_prod=&x=34&y=12

has Padparadscha Sapphires as low as $60.00 however I've seen others in similar ct range that start at $1,300. What exactly is the difference and why such a range in price?

 

[chrono]

A stone that comes out of the ground with perfect colour is rare, therefore it is priced accordingly. Sometimes, mother nature didn''t quite make it as pretty so humans heat it to drive off any unpleasant undertones, giving it a purer hue so something that isn''t as nice is still "salvagable" and can be sold for a decent sum of money. Because the stone has been helped a little, pricing will be less than untreated material of comparable quality. Now comes the least attractive material that is too brown and gray to get anyone to purchase on its own merit. Diffusing it with Beryllium or some other material gives it eye popping colour, thus making very unattractive stones saleable. This method of treatment totally changes the appearance and is considered invasive. It is also priced extremely low because of that. Most people are prefer with untreated with some accepting heat only. However, if BE treatment is disclosed and the buyer isn''t hung up on treatment, he/she is able to get a gorgeous stone for very little money.

 

[chrono]

All the stones in the Thaigem link are BE diffused, which means that they have essentially been dyed. Their original colour is most likely very unattractive or they would have been sold as is. It is good that the disclosure is clearly stated but they are still rather expensive for BE treated stones.

 

[RevolutionGems]

Spot on, Chrono. I have a small (a little over a carat) BE treated pad that is absolutely gorgeous. I think I paid around $20 for it. That said, the color of this stone simply doesn''t exist in nature. It is highly saturated with a perfect medium-dark tone in that exquisite pinky-orange color. This pic isn''t my stone but the color is pretty close.

 

[LD]

Natural (either just heated or completely untreated) Padparadscha Sapphires are more difficult to find than other variations of sapphire and therefore command reasonably high prices.

BE diffused "Padparadschas" should really be called "Padparadscha coloured sapphires". Yes they are real sapphires but they were originally a pale, unexciting, not very nice colour to begin with and then heated with Beryllium to give them the colour of a Padparadscha.

So are they Padparadschas? No. Are they sapphires? Yes. Should they be called Padparadschas? No.

If you like the look of them and are not a purist then you can get some very pretty gemstones at a fraction of the price of a heated or untreated one.

Beware though, you can't tell if something has been BE diffused just by looking and unfortunately there are tons on the market where the treatment isn't disclosed. Typically BE gemstones have a very strong bright colour - but that's not always the case.

EDIT: Apologies, I've repeated Chrono and Revolution but was interrupted mid typing and delayed posting so hadn't seen their posts!

 

[Jsmith8]

Thanks for all the help. That makes much more sense than when I just googled it and tried to understand it myself.

Does anyone know where I would be able to obtain a treated/BE Padparadscha Sapphire from? The ThaiGem site seems to be very honest about the treatment of their sapphires but you ladies said it''s pricey for what they are giving you and I trust your opinion on that. I''m very new to the world of jewelry so I''m not sure what prices should be.

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 2/27/2010 12:11:56 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
Natural (either just heated or completely untreated) Padparadscha Sapphires are more difficult to find than other variations of sapphire and therefore command reasonably high prices.

BE diffused ''Padparadschas'' should really be called ''Padparadscha coloured sapphires''. Yes they are real sapphires but they were originally a pale, unexciting, not very nice colour to begin with and then heated with Beryllium to give them the colour of a Padparadscha.

So are they Padparadschas? No. Are they sapphires? Yes. Should they be called Padparadschas? No.

If you like the look of them and are not a purist then you can get some very pretty gemstones at a fraction of the price of a heated or untreated one.

Beware though, you can''t tell if something has been BE diffused just by looking and unfortunately there are tons on the market where the treatment isn''t disclosed. Typically BE gemstones have a very strong bright colour - but that''s not always the case.

EDIT: Apologies, I''ve repeated Chrono and Revolution but was interrupted mid typing and delayed posting so hadn''t seen their posts!

Don''t you think that Padparacha is just a marketing term? I have not met it in old books. What it actually means is "a very delicate pink-orange color sapphire". If someone is looking for a Padparacha he has a chance of getting a pink, orange, pink-orange sapphire; it is even better to specify: "I want a very delicate pinkish color" otherwise a peson risks to obtain something and be told that it is Padparacha. While in fact it is brownish-orange Be-treated stone.

 

[T L]

Date: 2/27/2010 3:56:22 PM
Author: crasru

Don't you think that Padparacha is just a marketing term? I have not met it in old books. What it actually means is 'a very delicate pink-orange color sapphire'. If someone is looking for a Padparacha he has a chance of getting a pink, orange, pink-orange sapphire; it is even better to specify: 'I want a very delicate pinkish color' otherwise a peson risks to obtain something and be told that it is Padparacha. While in fact it is brownish-orange Be-treated stone.

It is a marekting term to designate a light to moderately strong saturated pink-orange sapphire of medium to light tone. At least that's the definition this week.

Padparadscha color is either all natural or caused by gentle heat treatment. BE-padparadschas are not truly padparadschas, but corunudum essentially drastically changed in color to appear the color of an orange pink sapphire. Even if natural in color, the above BE-pad wouldn't even be considered a true pad - the color is too saturated. With padparadschas, the term "delicate color" is taken very seriously by the trade.

 

[innerkitten]

oops

 

[innerkitten]

Date: 2/27/2010 12:07:48 PM
Author: Revolution
Spot on, Chrono. I have a small (a little over a carat) BE treated pad that is absolutely gorgeous. I think I paid around $20 for it. That said, the color of this stone simply doesn''t exist in nature. It is highly saturated with a perfect medium-dark tone in that exquisite pinky-orange color. This pic isn''t my stone but the color is pretty close.

I have a BE treated one too.It was dirt cheap and i plan on using it in class.

 

[LD]

Yes and no to it being a marketing term! That''s helpful isn''t it!!!? For example, is Kashmir a marketing term? Is Ceylon a marketing term? All of the terms donate a certain "look". The problem with the term Padparadscha is that it means X to one person and Y to another! There is an actual definition that was posted ages ago and TL has referred to it above. The problem is that if a sapphire has both hints of pink and orange it tends to be sold as a Padparadscha because it will command a higher price (by some NOT all vendors).
What is definite however, is that it is an excepted term AND possibly the most confusing after "when does a pink sapphire become a ruby?"!!!!

JSmith8 - you can find BE diffused sapphires everywhere. Jewellery shopping channels sell them (although won''t necessarily say they are diffused), Ebay is littered with them and occasionally you''ll find websites where they sell sapphires and the treatment is clearly stated. It''s very difficult to be precise about price because we don''t know what size, shape, whether you want loose/set in jewellery etc and even if we did, the price range is extremely wide. For some gems you can have a guess at $ per carat but BE diffused sapphires sell for peanuts and also for $$$$$s depending on the vendor! Just bear in mind, if it''s not stated and the colour is vivid the chances are it''s diffused.

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 2/27/2010 5:50:29 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
Yes and no to it being a marketing term! That''s helpful isn''t it!!!? For example, is Kashmir a marketing term? Is Ceylon a marketing term? All of the terms donate a certain ''look''. The problem with the term Padparadscha is that it means X to one person and Y to another! There is an actual definition that was posted ages ago and TL has referred to it above. The problem is that if a sapphire has both hints of pink and orange it tends to be sold as a Padparadscha because it will command a higher price (by some NOT all vendors).
What is definite however, is that it is an excepted term AND possibly the most confusing after ''when does a pink sapphire become a ruby?''!!!!

JSmith8 - you can find BE diffused sapphires everywhere. Jewellery shopping channels sell them (although won''t necessarily say they are diffused), Ebay is littered with them and occasionally you''ll find websites where they sell sapphires and the treatment is clearly stated. It''s very difficult to be precise about price because we don''t know what size, shape, whether you want loose/set in jewellery etc and even if we did, the price range is extremely wide. For some gems you can have a guess at $ per carat but BE diffused sapphires sell for peanuts and also for $$$$$s depending on the vendor! Just bear in mind, if it''s not stated and the colour is vivid the chances are it''s diffused.

What I mean that if you call a gem dealer and say you want an "Padparacha" you may be in trouble because he will bring you a nice, not necessarily delicate pink-orange sapphire and tell you that it is a Padparacha. I have also read that true pads come from Ceylon only...what not. If I say "bring me an unheated Burmese" I expect to get a sapphire from Burma with a certificate stating its origin and method of treatment. Whether the color is good or not so good is another issue. I have seen Burmese sapphires that were too inky.
But if I say "bring me a pigeon blood ruby", I might be in trouble. Because it actually tells nothing about the ruby. I am going to receive a ruby from Vietnam (for example) or what not and be told that it is true "pigeon blood" because in fact I have not specified anything except from old marketing term which doesn''t say much to any specialist.

 

[T L]

Date: 2/27/2010 6:02:18 PM
Author: crasru

Date: 2/27/2010 5:50:29 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
Yes and no to it being a marketing term! That''s helpful isn''t it!!!? For example, is Kashmir a marketing term? Is Ceylon a marketing term? All of the terms donate a certain ''look''. The problem with the term Padparadscha is that it means X to one person and Y to another! There is an actual definition that was posted ages ago and TL has referred to it above. The problem is that if a sapphire has both hints of pink and orange it tends to be sold as a Padparadscha because it will command a higher price (by some NOT all vendors).
What is definite however, is that it is an excepted term AND possibly the most confusing after ''when does a pink sapphire become a ruby?''!!!!

JSmith8 - you can find BE diffused sapphires everywhere. Jewellery shopping channels sell them (although won''t necessarily say they are diffused), Ebay is littered with them and occasionally you''ll find websites where they sell sapphires and the treatment is clearly stated. It''s very difficult to be precise about price because we don''t know what size, shape, whether you want loose/set in jewellery etc and even if we did, the price range is extremely wide. For some gems you can have a guess at $ per carat but BE diffused sapphires sell for peanuts and also for $$$$$s depending on the vendor! Just bear in mind, if it''s not stated and the colour is vivid the chances are it''s diffused.

What I mean that if you call a gem dealer and say you want an ''Padparacha'' you may be in trouble because he will bring you a nice, not necessarily delicate pink-orange sapphire and tell you that it is a Padparacha. I have also read that true pads come from Ceylon only...what not. If I say ''bring me an unheated Burmese'' I expect to get a sapphire from Burma with a certificate stating its origin and method of treatment. Whether the color is good or not so good is another issue. I have seen Burmese sapphires that were too inky.
But if I say ''bring me a pigeon blood ruby'', I might be in trouble. Because it actually tells nothing about the ruby. I am going to receive a ruby from Vietnam (for example) or what not and be told that it is true ''pigeon blood'' because in fact I have not specified anything except from old marketing term which doesn''t say much to any specialist.

To some purists, only Ceylon has true padparadschas, but according to the trade, as long as the sapphire fits the "definition of the day," then it''s a true padparadscha. I think you''re realizing that no matter what the stone, it is best to use some description of color and tone that is meaningful like "I would like an orange pink sapphire of medium tone and moderately strong saturation. It must be equal parts orange and pink." However, even most jewelers don''t get that. You really need to talk to someone that truly specializes in the colored gem you''re trying to obtain.

 

[Jsmith8]

Date: 2/27/2010 5:50:29 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds

JSmith8 - you can find BE diffused sapphires everywhere. Jewellery shopping channels sell them (although won''t necessarily say they are diffused), Ebay is littered with them and occasionally you''ll find websites where they sell sapphires and the treatment is clearly stated. It''s very difficult to be precise about price because we don''t know what size, shape, whether you want loose/set in jewellery etc and even if we did, the price range is extremely wide. For some gems you can have a guess at $ per carat but BE diffused sapphires sell for peanuts and also for $$$$$s depending on the vendor! Just bear in mind, if it''s not stated and the colour is vivid the chances are it''s diffused.

So for example- this ebay search brought up "Pad" Sapphires in the $8 - $30 range so I definitely believe they are diffused (I still think the color is beautiful though as much as a n00b I am).

Is paying approximately $10 for this type of stone considered a dumb move?
Are they still stable and as hard as a sapphire?

I don''t really care about the fact if it''s natural or not as this wouldn''t be a fancy or luxury ring. I just am in love with the pinky peach color and cannot see myself spending the amount of money to get a natural one at the moment.


http://jewelry.shop.ebay.com/Natural-/4644/i.html?Shape=Cushion&_nkw=PADPARADSCHA&_catref=1&_dmpt=Loose_Gemstones_1&_fln=1&_trksid=p4978.c0.m282

 

[Barrett]

You see a pad to me is spot on the one jeff "revolution" posted..i see pink and orange both in that stone...but..Richard Wise who is by far and away much more knowledgable and has seen/held more pads than i have held regular sapphires showed a pic of a solid color stone blend pink/orange stone which personally i never would have said was a pad from my old understanding of the term/stone. Now this one was cut by "Zeolite"..i don't see either pink or orange seperately but a nice blending of the two colors
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/padparadscha-questions.123431/

So like any other stone some will have better color or more discernable orange/pink or orangish-pink but the definition and what people see and call a pad is so skewered and all over the place..if i was to buy one i would first post it on here to see what the others think or i would email somneone like Richard or Zeolite to get their opinion. i tried to find that pic Richard posted awhile ago but couldn't locate it

 

[Barrett]

Just remember jsmith you get what you pay for

 

[T L]

Date: 2/27/2010 6:43:07 PM
Author: amethystguy
You see a pad to me is spot on the one jeff 'revolution' posted..i see pink and orange both in that stone...but..Richard Wise who is by far and away much more knowledgable and has seen/held more pads than i have held regular sapphires showed a pic of a solid color stone blend pink/orange stone which personally i never would have said was a pad from my old understanding of the term/stone. Now this one was cut by 'Zeolite'..i don't see either pink or orange seperately but a nice blending of the two colors
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/padparadscha-questions.123431/

So like any other stone some will have better color or more discernable orange/pink or orangish-pink but the definition and what people see and call a pad is so skewered and all over the place..if i was to buy one i would first post it on here to see what the others think or i would email somneone like Richard or Zeolite to get their opinion. i tried to find that pic Richard posted awhile ago but couldn't locate it

And this is exactly the reason why I don't suggest people buy a padparadscha based on the fact that someone calls it a padparadscha. I personally like vivid stones, and true padparadschas, according to the definition of the week, cannot be vivid. Therefore, I probably would look for an orange-pink gem that wasn't a true padparadscha. The fact of the matter is that you should buy what you like, as long as you are paying a fair price, and the color is attractive to you. Be leary of orange-pink sapphires that are too brown as well. I just purchased an orange-pink spinel that is a dead ringer for what some in the trade would consider a padaparadscha. I liked it, and it was very cost effective, and all natural in color (it's AIGS certified too).

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 2/27/2010 6:32:33 PM
Author: Jsmith8

Date: 2/27/2010 5:50:29 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds

JSmith8 - you can find BE diffused sapphires everywhere. Jewellery shopping channels sell them (although won''t necessarily say they are diffused), Ebay is littered with them and occasionally you''ll find websites where they sell sapphires and the treatment is clearly stated. It''s very difficult to be precise about price because we don''t know what size, shape, whether you want loose/set in jewellery etc and even if we did, the price range is extremely wide. For some gems you can have a guess at $ per carat but BE diffused sapphires sell for peanuts and also for $$$$$s depending on the vendor! Just bear in mind, if it''s not stated and the colour is vivid the chances are it''s diffused.

So for example- this ebay search brought up ''Pad'' Sapphires in the $8 - $30 range so I definitely believe they are diffused (I still think the color is beautiful though as much as a n00b I am).

Is paying approximately $10 for this type of stone considered a dumb move?
Are they still stable and as hard as a sapphire?

I don''t really care about the fact if it''s natural or not as this wouldn''t be a fancy or luxury ring. I just am in love with the pinky peach color and cannot see myself spending the amount of money to get a natural one at the moment.


http://jewelry.shop.ebay.com/Natural-/4644/i.html?Shape=Cushion&_nkw=PADPARADSCHA&_catref=1&_dmpt=Loose_Gemstones_1&_fln=1&_trksid=p4978.c0.m282

For Pete''s sake, it looks like a full spectrum to me! Even blue is there! The only color I am not yet seeing is green, but I won''t be surprized if someone offers a green padparacha for sale. None of them comes even close to a pad!

 

[ma re]

So basically it all pretty much comes down to rarity. BE sapphires are many things but rare they are not, while pads of pleasing natural color are indeed somehting rare. But if you only need a nice stone to dress up, BE pads are a great option, pretty, durable and affordable. If it''s clearly stated by vendor that it''s a BE sapphire, no reason not to go for it, cause that way you''re at least (supposed to be) sure you won''t get a piece of glass. A few dollars and an access to Ebay can easily get you a BE pad.

 

[Nomsdeplume]

If you like it, buy it! If you are specifically looking for a BE treated stone, it doesn''t matter that much whether it''s a "pad" or not, since the value of a pad is in it''s rarity, and a BE treated stone isn''t rare. What really matters is that you love it, whether or not it meets the criteria.

 

[Jsmith8]

Is this stone on the Natural Sapphire Company website considered a true Pad in color? Theys eem to have such a spread of Pads on that site that range from pure beige to hot pink.

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Padparadscha/PA2135/Cushion/stoneid=PA2135

 

[Barrett]

Perfect example is the one Jsmith just posted..i would never ever call that a pad..maybe my definition is way off from other folks cause that is not what I would call a padparadscha..personally i think there has to be a line drawn..it must have enough ornage or pink or be a discernable blend of orange/pink..the criteria folks/dealers use is all over the place..in the stone that Jsmith just linked I see pink..almost all pink but now I do see where the pink seems to have a slight secondary color but i don't see or think of orange with whatever that slight secondary color is..just looks like a different shade of pink..maybe pink with a touch of brown

 

[Jsmith8]

Date: 2/28/2010 3:14:56 PM
Author: amethystguy
Perfect example is the one Jsmith just posted..i would never ever call that a pad..maybe my definition is way off from other folks cause that is not what I would call a padparadscha..personally i think there has to be a line drawn..it must have enough ornage or pink or be a discernable blend of orange/pink..the criteria folks/dealers use is all over the place..in the stone that Jsmith just linked I see pink..almost all pink but now I do see where the pink seems to have a slight secondary color but i don''t see or think of orange with whatever that slight secondary color is..just looks like a different shade of pink..maybe pink with a touch of brown

I see just pink as well maybe a verrrrrryyyy little of another color but mainly pink.

 

[gemnut]

I thought you might be interested in this set, which is made from what I call "orange sapphires" but jewellers that have seen it call "pads", just to compare. The large stone in the ring has been "gently heated" to this color, while the earrings are untreated.Link

 

[karpouzi]

Date: 2/28/2010 1:47:17 PM
Author: Jsmith8

Is this stone on the Natural Sapphire Company website considered a true Pad in color? Theys eem to have such a spread of Pads on that site that range from pure beige to hot pink.

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Padparadscha/PA2135/Cushion/stoneid=PA2135

Yep, this one looks just pink to me. Maybe even lilac. Not pad.

And it''s heat treated.

 

[LD]

This is a better example as you can see both orange and pink and it''s not neon in colour! Mind you, look at the price!

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Padparadscha/PA211/Cushion/stoneid=PA211

Strangely, I wouldn''t buy this one though because it has too much of a brown undertone for me!

 

[T L]

Date: 2/28/2010 6:16:36 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
This is a better example as you can see both orange and pink and it''s not neon in colour! Mind you, look at the price!

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Padparadscha/PA211/Cushion/stoneid=PA211

Strangely, I wouldn''t buy this one though because it has too much of a brown undertone for me!

And it''s heated too. Good example of how a marketing name can really inflate a price.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I bought a pad from NSC, and I found their photos kind of hit or miss :/ I think with stones are tricky as pads (really hard to photograph), it''s best to see them in person if possible if you''re going to spend a lot on it.

I think a cheapy Be Pad would look great for a fun ring!

 

[VapidLapid]

Thank You all for your helpful comments and suggestions to my plea for help finding a Pad too. I think I have looked at every available pad on the internet at least 3 times each over the last two weeks. What a disappointment and migraine. Thank god I had plenty of vicodin! The only one I found that I thought was really just the thing was, well...from Harry Winston. Well, at least I still have some more vicodin.