Obama Sex Ed Ad

[SarahLovesJS]

Okay, so this ad has been controversial to say the least. I am making a thread about about this because I want y''all to help me research and find more info about it. I don''t want to debate the bill really, I want to find one thing out specifically..did or does Obama support using the SIECUS guidelines for level 1 education?

Here''s what I have so far. The ad and the sources in the ad from the McCain website: McCain Website on the ad

Here''s the bill just in case you wanted to see it: Bill Text

Okay so here''s what I need help researching..does Obama support using the SIECUS guidelines? Here are the guidelines: SIECUS Guidelines

And here is the statement that makes me think maybe he does..it is from Bill Burton who is an Obama spokesperson. He cited this guideline. Does that mean Obama supports using it? Here''s the link to the statement: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/07/19/277886.aspx

Here''s it quoted: "Obama spokesman Bill Burton tells First Read: "You can teach a kid about what''s appropriate and not appropriate to protect them from predators out there." In addition, he issued a document showing that the Oregon Department of Education has guidelines for sex education for children in grades K-3 (which includes understanding the difference between a good touch and a bad touch), and that the Sexuality Information And Education Council of the United States has curriculum for those in kindergarten."

Thanks in advance for any help. I am trying to make sense of all of this, I assumed McCain was just exaggerating, but now I am not so sure. I am all for teaching kids about predators, but I do NOT agree with the SIECUS guidelines for 5 year olds. Does Obama?

 

[miraclesrule]

Dang Sarah, I didn''t even know about SIECUS until now. I just got through the beginning of the introduction to the guidelines. I''m afraid to read it all.

But my initial advice is to view anything that is said by one side about the other with a prudent degree of skepticism. If you can be sure of one thing, it is that either side will do everything they can to provoke fear in you. They want you to be afraid of the opposition and they will do anything to attain that goal.

I would check the MegaVote or google more to determine exactly what Obama believes. In fact, it is good to go directly to the candidates website for position papers. Ads are smear campaigns intended to distract you.

You said that you don''t agree with SIECUS for 5-yr olds. How do you feel about it for the other ages?

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Haven''t gone through most of it yet, I was concentrating on Level 1. But I am looking at the quote from the Obama spokesman to MSNBC that''s supposed to be an independent source.

 

[miraclesrule]

Okay, but be careful, as you can tell by www.factcheck.org even real and often partial quotes can be put in the wrong context by the mainstream media. It''s not unlike a virtual reality video game, but worse, because it''s real.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Yeah, I really wish Factcheck would check this. *sigh* They seem to be only doing the actual bill in the ad..which is fine and all..but I want to know what his position on this is and if his spokesman is right.

 

[miraclesrule]

Well, it can be like a bit like trying to untangle a dreadlock.

Or in my case, an extension cord (I really wish I knew how to wrap them in those cool loops so they don''t get tangled up).

It might be both. The spokesperson may be correct, but it may be a statement taken out of context. It''s frustrating, but if the issue is a dealbreaker for you, then it merits further investigation.

I have to say, I am surprised that the ads are at an all-time low. and the frustrating part is that you have to have TIVO in order to watch the ad again to find out which "group" is paying for the ad in the first place. These "special interest" groups are independent of the candidate but they are required by law to state who is sponsoring the ad. And it''s actually a demented genius mind that chooses to pick the organizations name so that they look all legit and that they are looking out for a legitimate cause, but that is usually just a ruse and is anything but...

I learned all the hat tricks when I was reading a book on running a campaign. It made me feel dirty just reading it. Seriously, you want to take a shower afterward. It''s serious hardball.

 

[mimzy]

oops nevermind

 

[Anna0499]

Obama *did* support it from everything I''ve read. They are trying to frame it as a program to teach kids about sexual predators, but it is so much worse if you actually read the SIECUS guidelines. Parents are allowed to opt-out of these programs, but I wonder how many of them know this and IMHO the program is too graphic for children who don''t even know how to read and write yet.

Obama''s *own people* defended his actions under SIECUS - this was brought up about a year ago & it''s just now resurfacing.

 

[thumbelina]

From factcheck.org


http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/off_base_on_sex_ed.html

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/16/2008 10:13:15 AM
Author: thumbelina
From factcheck.org


http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/off_base_on_sex_ed.html

That link doesn't mention how Obama's own press secretary used SIECUS to defend his actions...SIECUS includes graphic depiction of sex & sexual organs to children as young as 5 years old.

It's not a dealbreaker or maker for me; perhaps Burton was not thinking before he spoke...

ETA: I do agree that the McCain aid leaves out parts and is misleading, but I think most people are smart enough to delve deeper to get the truth behind ads from either candidate, as they are produced with a biased lens.

 

[swimmer]

Date: 9/16/2008 10:19:47 AM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 9/16/2008 10:13:15 AM

Author: thumbelina

From factcheck.org



http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/off_base_on_sex_ed.html

That link doesn''t mention how Obama''s own press secretary used SIECUS to defend his actions...SIECUS includes graphic depiction of sex & sexual organs to children as young as 5 years old.

It''s not a dealbreaker or maker for me; perhaps Burton was not thinking before he spoke...


ETA: I do agree that the McCain aid leaves out parts and is misleading, but I think most people are smart enough to delve deeper to get the truth behind ads from either candidate, as they are produced with a biased lens.

Do you really think most people are smart enough to detangle the webs of lies? I am glad that you are hopeful. I fear that many voters simply aren''t interested in doing that sort of work. Hence Bush beat McCain because of his "illegitimate black baby."

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/16/2008 10:44:45 AM
Author: swimmer

Do you really think most people are smart enough to detangle the webs of lies? I am glad that you are hopeful. I fear that many voters simply aren''t interested in doing that sort of work. Hence Bush beat McCain because of his ''illegitimate black baby.''

Yes, I am hopeful.

I really don''t think this particular ad will turn ANY Obama supporters into McCain ones, but then again, who knows. I hang out with mostly law students and we have debates about these things everyday, so my views are probably skewed. I would imagine most Americans already know who they are voting for by now, and those who are undecided are hopeuflly undecided because they are taking the time to compare the real issues. People who would be dissuaded or persuaded by one ad have probably already made up their minds...

 

[Skippy123]

On the View they discussed it and it was said that they twisted Obama's words, I walked away (I wish I didn't now that there is this question) so I don't know the whole story but if you can find the episode maybe it can shed some light??? eta: it seems lately on the View Joy and Elisabeth have been discussing the political ads and explained the partial truths to them (or twisted truth).

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 9/16/2008 9:32:23 AM
Author: IndyGirl22
Obama *did* support it from everything I''ve read. They are trying to frame it as a program to teach kids about sexual predators, but it is so much worse if you actually read the SIECUS guidelines. Parents are allowed to opt-out of these programs, but I wonder how many of them know this and IMHO the program is too graphic for children who don''t even know how to read and write yet.

Obama''s *own people* defended his actions under SIECUS - this was brought up about a year ago & it''s just now resurfacing.

Wow yeah..if this is true it really bothers me. The SIECUS guidelines are way too graphic for little ones IMHO.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/16/2008 11:20:53 AM
Author: SarahLovesJS

Date: 9/16/2008 9:32:23 AM
Author: IndyGirl22
Obama *did* support it from everything I''ve read. They are trying to frame it as a program to teach kids about sexual predators, but it is so much worse if you actually read the SIECUS guidelines. Parents are allowed to opt-out of these programs, but I wonder how many of them know this and IMHO the program is too graphic for children who don''t even know how to read and write yet.

Obama''s *own people* defended his actions under SIECUS - this was brought up about a year ago & it''s just now resurfacing.

Wow yeah..if this is true it really bothers me. The SIECUS guidelines are way too graphic for little ones IMHO.

Right; I don''t know if the actual programs proposed contained the same guidelines as SIECUS, but if not, I would be curious as to why Obama''s press secretary said so. Obviously all of the political ads coming out now (and previously) cannot be considered the "whole picture" about anything they speak of, but it does bring up issues (albeit leaving out some facts) that people can research and decide for themselves (hopefully).

 

[joflier]

Date: 9/16/2008 11:20:53 AM
Author: SarahLovesJS

Date: 9/16/2008 9:32:23 AM
Author: IndyGirl22
Obama *did* support it from everything I''ve read. They are trying to frame it as a program to teach kids about sexual predators, but it is so much worse if you actually read the SIECUS guidelines. Parents are allowed to opt-out of these programs, but I wonder how many of them know this and IMHO the program is too graphic for children who don''t even know how to read and write yet.

Obama''s *own people* defended his actions under SIECUS - this was brought up about a year ago & it''s just now resurfacing.

Wow yeah..if this is true it really bothers me. The SIECUS guidelines are way too graphic for little ones IMHO.

I agree. I''m not a parent, but if I was, I''d be really bothered by that......I was really bothered by a health/sex class that handed out condoms to 3rd graders a couple years ago. Hope it wasn''t the same program.

 

[stone_seeker]

Hillary Clinton attacked Barack Obama for this very same bill during the primaries. At that time, Obama''s response was that the bill was to teach about HIV/Aids education.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 9/16/2008 11:50:43 AM
Author: stone_seeker
Hillary Clinton attacked Barack Obama for this very same bill during the primaries. At that time, Obama''s response was that the bill was to teach about HIV/Aids education.

It does say that in the bill..which I am not sure I am 100% comfortable with a 5 year old learning about AIDs either. *sigh* I never thought I''d have to opt my kids (don''t have any yet thank God) out of sex ed one day. If this and by this I mainly mean SIECUS guidelines..is the direction it''s going in..looks like I''ll have to opt them out and do it myself.

 

[stone_seeker]

Here is a link from NRO that explains it a bit. Not sure if NRO is typically right wing or not so read with caution but some of the facts are just excerpts from the bill itself:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NzI3ZDUzOTE0ZThlMTU3MTY0MDI4ZTY0MTZhY2I2MGY=


ETA - it seems like this guy is from a conservative blog group but its consistent with some of the other stuff we are reading about the bill.

 

[swimmer]

The New York Times (which I don''t think of as biased, but some might) weighs in, and like everyone else, says McCain is grossly misrepresenting the truth, or what we elitists call "lying."
link

 

[JSM]

I know only a little about the bill, but I do have to say that puberty is happening earlier and earlier all the time. My little sister starting menstruating at eight years old!

Obviously, condoms to kindergartners is ridiculous. But we do have to balance out the young ages of children who are becoming sexually active. I intend to have my children know male vs female parts and inappropriate touching by school age. No SEX talk though!

 

[stone_seeker]

Wasnt the bill defeated by the majority in Illinois senate anyway? something must have been wrong with it.

i agree - if its limited to age-appropriate education, prob fine with me. Needs some serious oversight though.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 9/16/2008 1:38:29 PM
Author: swimmer
The New York Times (which I don''t think of as biased, but some might) weighs in, and like everyone else, says McCain is grossly misrepresenting the truth, or what we elitists call ''lying.''

link

Interesting article..I wish it talked about the SIECUS issue. The bill does call for education on STDs though and I don''t consider that age appropriate, but that''s just my personal opinion. Depends on how you feel about the bill I suppose. *shrug*

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 9/16/2008 1:39:33 PM
Author: stone_seeker
Wasnt the bill defeated by the majority in Illinois senate anyway? something must have been wrong with it.


i agree - if its limited to age-appropriate education, prob fine with me. Needs some serious oversight though.

Yeah it was defeated.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/16/2008 1:41:25 PM
Author: SarahLovesJS

Date: 9/16/2008 1:38:29 PM
Author: swimmer
The New York Times (which I don't think of as biased, but some might) weighs in, and like everyone else, says McCain is grossly misrepresenting the truth, or what we elitists call 'lying.'

link

Interesting article..I wish it talked about the SIECUS issue. The bill does call for education on STDs though and I don't consider that age appropriate, but that's just my personal opinion. Depends on how you feel about the bill I suppose. *shrug*

Yeah, maybe Bill Burton was "lying" when he defended Obama under SIECUS...

I would certainly opt out my 5 year old if they were being taught: "Vaginal intercourse – when a penis is placed inside a vagina – is the most common way for a sperm." TMI at that age IMHO.
and egg to join.

 

[miraclesrule]

Well, I wonder what type of education a child should get in grade school.

True story...

Me and my two sisters used to walk to school everyday. I was in 1st grade, so I must have been about 6 yrs old. Actually, it was my older sister who was in 2nd grade at the time. Well, there was this nice old granda looking man who used to greet us out in front of his house everyday on our way to or from school. He enticed us into his house with the cupboard full of candy bars. Man, I wanted that big ole'' Butterfinger and Snickers. We would have to sit on his lap and listen to his stories and we would be very impatient, like "Can we have our candy bar now, because we need to get to school, or get home. We were really too young to understand what was going on and why he wanted us on his lap. I had candy on the brain.

Well, the following year when I had just started 2nd grade, I recall very vividly, the police presence at our school and them coming to my classroom and bringing me to the office where I was interrogated by a few policemen. Then I saw my sister and started to get scared and starting crying. The next thing I know my Mom is at the school and she is wreck. Turns out the nice old grampa guy was a pedophile. I truly don''t recall anything overtly obvious, but again, we were young. The guy was arrested and we never saw him again. I was sort of bummed about the candy, but truly did''t get what was happening. In hindsight, I little more direct explanation of what to look for would have tipped us off. I do remember him looking under our skirts and maybe copping a feel or two. it disgusts me know thinking that he was getting some sort of sexual gratification from it.

Needless to say, I was extra paranoid about my daughter. I start talking to her about her body and clinical education about babies and menstration and intercourse and all of that stuff before she was 8 years old. She thought it was gross, but I was adamant about making sure that nothing like that happened to my daughter. I taught her special codes in case anyone tried to pick her up from school, even if it was her uncle or a friend....don''t believe that I sent them for you unless they knew our code phrase. I am sure she still remembers it even though she is about to turn 29.

It''s a tough topic, but with the oversexualization of our youth, it does seem to be necessary. Heck, we used to play doctor with my Mom''s best friends sons and we weren''t more than 6 and 7 years old.

 

[MoonWater]

Interesting story miracles.

That''s one of a few things I think my mother got right. She started teaching me about sex before I was 6 years old for the same reasons. I started learning about STDs at seven. She also taught me codes so that I could know for sure if someone was sent by her. I think she was really fearful of something happening to me. I don''t think I developed any strange issues regarding sex. In fact, I was a lot more aware and less naive than all of my peers. I also remained a virgin much longer than they did as well. Go figure.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Guess it''s just my opinion then.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/17/2008 8:46:53 AM
Author: SarahLovesJS
Guess it''s just my opinion then.

No, I don''t think it is or it wouldn''t have even been an issue regarding Obama. I think PARENTS can be free to teach their kids whatever they want depending on their own value system, but if and when I have a 5 year old child *I* want to be the one controlling what they learn, not the government. I have no problem with children learning to stay away from strangers/potential sexual predators generally (and I think most schools still teach this), but I don''t think it''s necessary that they learn about how babies are conceived to do so. I mean, how many kindergarteners will comprehend the complex stuff anyway? I know grown adults who don''t comprehend it!

Once they get older and become older, of course, I think it''s much more acceptable because they have the cognitive ability to understand the material.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 9/17/2008 9:51:38 AM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 9/17/2008 8:46:53 AM

Author: SarahLovesJS

Guess it''s just my opinion then.

No, I don''t think it is or it wouldn''t have even been an issue regarding Obama. I think PARENTS can be free to teach their kids whatever they want depending on their own value system, but if and when I have a 5 year old child *I* want to be the one controlling what they learn, not the government. I have no problem with children learning to stay away from strangers/potential sexual predators generally (and I think most schools still teach this), but I don''t think it''s necessary that they learn about how babies are conceived to do so. I mean, how many kindergarteners will comprehend the complex stuff anyway? I know grown adults who don''t comprehend it!

Once they get older and become older, of course, I think it''s much more acceptable because they have the cognitive ability to understand the material.

I agree with you..sexual predators, bad touching, sure..I have no problem with schools teaching them about that. But masturbation? Everyone is a "sexual being?" Um...NO?