New poster would love some advice.

[josephg]

hi everyone,

I have been reading your boards here for a few months attempting to edumacate myself. I am finally making the plunge and i think i found a great diamond, well WF found a great diamond for me. I am a little concerned about the size of the culet on this cushion cut, so i will post the pictures and forms that WF forwarded me today. please give me your honest opinion''s, they are trully valued and appreciated, for what little I know you folks taught me.

 

[josephg]

sorry not sure how to paste the picture in the text so i had to attach them all.

 

[josephg]

oh looks like that is how you do it, well i dont know how to do it multiple times so i''ll just continue the 1 per message.

 

[josephg]

and finally the GIA cert. thank you all for any comments, it will be set in WF version of the tiffany legacy.

well... cant attach the .pdf so i''ll just list it here:

GIA cert Dec. 2003

Cushion brilliant
5.92x5.72x3.82
.99 carat
depth 66.8%
table 59%
girdle:medium to thick, faceted
culet: slightly large
polish: good
symetry: good
vvs2
F color
flur: none
comments: crown angles greater than 40%

thanks again!

 

[Garysax]

Looks like a very pretty stone and the IS looks good to me. I don''t know much about the measurements of that cut, so i can''t really comment on that and I don''t know exactly how the cut should look under IS either.

If it were me I''d throttle back on the clarity to VS1 or VS2 and save some money, but again, that''s just me, I''m on a more shoestring budget than you! I''m not sure what the consequences of that cutlet are, to be honest, either.

A lot of stuff I don''t know! Hopefully someone else will come in and fill in.

 

[josephg]

thanks gary, I was originally looking at vs1-vs2 but the gentelman at WF thought this was a great buy. any other comments would be appreciated, especially about the culet.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I love it! I know nothing about measurements, but that culet will hardly show when you are looking at the real diamond, which is tiny compared to that photo! F VVS2 is just wonderful, too! Please show us the ring when it is finished!

 

[fatafelice]

This has been a great week on the boards for cushion lovers!

I think this stone is gorgeous! I am, frankly, jealous! The nubmers look good and the pics look great. Though, I myself, actually like open culets in cushions...see how the reflection of it creates what Ana calls "virtual facets?" LOVE IT!

And in a Legacy-style setting?! You have the luckiest GF in the world!!! I sincerely hope you post dozens of pictures when it is done!!! Especially since I am hoping to get something VERY similar!

Good Job and Good Luck!

 

[firebirdgold]

WOW!

Absolutely gorgeous diamond. I''d have no problem with the cutlet and the scope image looks fab otherwise. And I conccur with diamondseeker2006, I love the F vvs2 rating! We all have our own prefences for trade off, personally I''d rather have the higher clarity with a great cut and compromise with the size and color. Also IMO I love love cushions with the x prong sytle. But the tiffany is very classic.

Your gf is very lucky!

 

[josephg]

thanks for the comments, i''m gonna go for it, and i''ll post the wax pics and hopefully i can get some feedback on that as well. as far as the numbers i''ll take the discount for the .99 any day. But as far as the culet goes thanks for helping on that because i really wasnt sure about it, i thought with the more square type diamonds that a larger culet would amplify the loss of light, but thats what you folks are here for. I''ll post everything else as it comes in, thanks again.

 

[josephg]

oh yeah sorry one more question, the culet off center .5% is that pretty typical or a little more off center than it should be (possibly the reason for a bit of a discount)?

 

[josephg]

fatafelice,
what kind of setting are you looking at? can you post any links?

 

[valeria101]

Date: 1/21/2006 3:17:51 PM
Author: josephg
oh yeah sorry one more question, the culet off center .5% is that pretty typical or a little more off

Pretty typical, as far as I can tell. If you look at a few Sarin reports for fancy shaped diamonds - it looks that way, and that is my refference as well.

Is the price lower than for other F/VVS cushions (since you mention a discount)? This one looks terrific to me in every way - but I am quite in favor for old style cuts. And this one looks like a particularly brilliant (pun intended) interpretation of the style. Just great, IMO

About, the Legacy-style setting - I didn't know WF has one! Is it anything like THIS or the other Legacy kind (with graduated sidestones) ? Just curious.

 

[fatafelice]

Joseph: I don''t actually have a particular setting in mind. I have been planning/hoping to do a custom project with Whiteflash -- I have worked with them before for a custom pendant and they were awesome!

Do you want something very close to the Legacy for your GF? Any custom piece would have to be modified at least 20% from the Tiffany design, though that setting at Icestore is pretty close. I think I am going to change it by eliminating the milgrain, pave on the band, and the wires under the halo. I also want to round out and possibly flatten the shank/band...I have tried on the Legacy and I didn''t find the squareness of the band or the pave very comfortable. But that is completely a personal preference. What would your GF like?

 

[Hest88]

Ahhhh!!

I love large culets in cushion cuts, because it makes them look like antique Old Mine Cuts. I think it''s a gorgeous stone.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

The culet will look like about a I1 / SI2 inclusion and would be eye visible in some conditions.

1. ask for it to be polished / closed - if they give us a gemadviser file - we / they can model it refaceted for you and show the ideal-scope image - should be ok.

2. drop to SI2 since that is what you are effectively buying anyway?

 

[josephg]

thanks for the input gary, that was more along the lines of what i originally thought, now i''m more confused than ever, should i just throw the towel in and start the search over again? do others agree that essentially it''s just a huge inclusion?

 

[fatafelice]

Well, it all depends on what YOU want. I have to respectfully disagree with Gary because I don''t think you need to have the stone re-cut/polished...unless your goal is to get the best possible light return, since culets do not reflect light. I personally don''t think larger culets look like inclusions. They just look like facets to me, but I can see how they might look like inclusions to others. Also, I imagine that the price already reflects the slightly large culet...part of the reason it is a "good deal".

As I said before, I like open culets in cushions because I like old mine cuts and being able to see their chunky facets. The stone you posted has that look about it. If that is what you want, then that is what you should get. If you want something that is super brilliant, then this is not the best stone. Try to find a more modern cushion or even one of the H&A squares that GOG has.

Most importantly, do you know what your GF wants? Maybe she has a preference either way?

Finally, perhaps WF would take a picture for you of the stone from a further distance, so you can get a better idea of how that culet will really look. They did that for me with a stone I had them bring in.

 

[fatafelice]

Okay, no one laugh at my lame photoshop skills!

Here''s a sort-of rendition of what your stone would look like in the legacy setting. Obviously, WF uses diffent lighting. Also, the faceting in your stone would be even less noticeable because the stone in this ring is probably a larger carat weight. Still, it might give you an idea...

 

[fatafelice]

This one looks better, I think. Better angle and I tried to lighten the stone up a little...

Still, I''m no Ana!

Your stone looks great like this, IMHO!

 

[valeria101]

What are you talking about? I couldn''t do any better ... short of setting the stone in there!


About the open culet: ok... Garry''s well-meaning expert advice still doesn''t make me hate open culets. Never heard that comparison with an inclusion before

Anyway, if the feature is badly frowned upon in cushion diamonds (as it clearly is for rounds) - that, I don''t know. Hopefully someone can clarify just what the commercial status of the feature is.

Until now, I haven''t heard of anyone seeking diamonds with an open culet on purpose. Whoever likes old cut diamonds must like it because it is nearly standard issue in these stones... And modern ones cut this way are unusual - it would take a while to find one, if you wanted to.


IMO, this is WF and you can call in the stone to take a look, and then send it back for a replacement if you don''t like what you are seeing.

 

[jaz464]

Personally, I do not like the look of open culets. The .99 carat weight is very nice and hard to come across. If it were me, I would go down in clarity and look for a different stone. However, if you like the look of an open culet, then go for it. You''rs and your GF opinions are all that should matter.

 

[josephg]

wow feta thanks for the photo shopping, you did a great job, and i really do think it looks great in that setting. I am curuious to hear more opinions on the culet/inclusion debate. I will put a lot of weight on what Bob at WF tells me when we talk about it on monday. Personally i kind of like the old fashion cut, but if the industry doesnt than i might be overpaying and what i thought was a great deal might not be so. maybe some opinions the stone is costing apx. $5200 .99 F vvs2 what do you think?

 

[belle]

if you want to go with an antique-y look the large culet just adds to the charm. if you want a more modern look, find a stone with a closed culet. i like both. it just depends on what look you are going for.
is there any way you could have the stone shipped for your inspection? i would seriously consider taking a look at it to see what you think.

 

[fatafelice]

Joseph: for reference, here is the1.52 modern cushion with a slightly large culet that I had called in. In this stone, I don't think it looks good. I like what Belle said about "charm." That is absolutely how I think about culets in old cut stones. In this one, it just seems uneccesary, IMO. In yours, it adds charm. But if the look of the one below is more appealing to you (with or without culet), then you should look for another stone.

 

[fatafelice]

Any of these look good to you? The numbers on these look okay and all are culet-free!

1.05 G SI1 $3950
1.00 G VS1 $4695
1.14 G VS1 $5605
1.21 G VS2 $5461
1.25 H SI1 $5066

I think that the price of your stone is perfectly fair, but you are paying a premium for that F VVS2. I definitely agree that if you don''t think you would be happy with this stone, then you should consider dropping down in color and clarity. You would be completely safe with a G VS and you could get a larger stone. My favorite of the ones above is the 1.21 G VS2. With the PS discount, it would be about the same as the one you are currently looking at. You should, of course, see the cert and pics before making a decision. Cushions are tricky little buggers!

All that being said, I still like your stone very much and if you like it, then you should keep it. As Ana said, have them actually send it to you so you can see it with your own eyes. You can always return it if you don''t like it. WF is cool like that!

 

[fatafelice]

Last post for now, I promise!

This .92 F VVS2 will face up larger and cost you less. The cut may be crap, but you can always check it out.

 

[josephg]

i like your stone feta the extra .5 makes for quite nice upgrade in the size. as for the stones you listed i am really looking at the 1.00 carat, i am looking for a square type and that one is 1.01 ratio which i''m really liking. I''ll see what WF tells me tomorrow after i ask some more questions.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 1/23/2006 12:43:16 AM
Author: josephg

i am looking for a square

There''s a premium on them apparently, and with lots more stones a hair above that 1 ct weight than a hair below... the next option may be the same price for SI1 & above 1 ct. It better be darn clean to persuade me it is worth it

, but that can happen nevertheless.

The ''precision search'' interface at WF is quite useful for this sort of search (including proportions) and this time it brought up THIS

Weight: 1.03cts, (GIA) F/SI1
Size: 6.10 x 5.9 (good news compared to the current choice).
Shape: l/w=1.03 (even GIA calls everything up to 1.05/1 is called ''square'' and I find this to be a conservative choice)
Depth: 64.7
Table: 55
Finish: Ex/Ex
Culet: ''small'' (=invisible)

By the numbers I would expect something nice, especially since there seems to be a (coincidental) connection between those finish grades and a certain look - like the picture EBree posted. Not that technically ''excellent'' finish grades give a certain look, but because only a couple of cutters make these stones and those tend to have a certain look. WF knows better where this stone might come from and if this is or isn''t pure nooonsense.

My 2c

 

[josephg]

thanks val, although i think ideally i would like to stay vs2+ (just a mental block of mine) but i do believe your right that the squares have a premium on them, and in my opinion rightly so.