Need advice desperately...

[soocool]

I know this is a long shot, but has anyone ever been in a similar situation and how do you handle something like this:

Back in May I asked for advice regarding my DD hanging out with a girl who I suspected had panic disorder. (link to previous thread). To summarize, my DD and she have been friends since 7th grade (now in 11th) and in 8th grade began displaying odd behaviors, such as not returning friends''s phone calls, cancelling get togethers and parties last minute, etc. She began having problems in 9th & especially 10th grade and was pulled out of school in April of this year and homeschooled. One day in May she called me at home and begged me to come get her crying hysterically. Her mom did not make a big issue of it (girl had been seeing a psychologist for about a year at that point and was on medication, but I have no additional info since her mom doesn''t want to let her DD''s friends'' parents know anything about it. )

Well my DD only saw her once this summer (the girl was supposed to do volunteer work with my DD this summer but didn''t come back after 1st week) and got a phone call from her in July telling her that she has just spent 3 weeks in a psychiatric hospital. Didn''t hear from the girl again until just before school started asking which homeroom DD was in (DD knew they wouldn''t have the same classes because DD is all honors and the girl isn''t). Luckily they do not have the same lunch period, but today DD had a test in a subject that is a split period so she ended up having a later lunch and saw her friend. The friend asked DD and another girl sitting with them how their summer was. In reply the girl told them that she spent the summer in the hospital because she tried to commit suicide!

DD doesn''t go out of her way anymore to contact or spend anytime with this girl anymore and when I asked DD about how she felt about this remark, DD just said that she thought the girl would be too scared to try anything and was just a little shocked. Well, I am a lot shocked especially since this girl scared me earlier this year when she called me crying and begging to come get her and let her stay at our house.

Do I make sure this girl does not have contact with my DD? Should DD stay friends or try to stay friends. The worst thing that could ever happen is if the girl tried something in front of my DD. She did tell DD that she cannot have any sharp objects because she will try to cut herself.

I appreciate you all taking the time to listen to this story.........

.

 

[princesss]

Honestly, I have no clue. If I were you, I might consider talking to a counselor just to get an idea of how you and your daughter can deal with this situation and what you need to do to protect your family with minimal potential harm to all parties. A professional would at least have an understanding of situations like this and coping mechanisms for your daughter so she doesn't start to feel like the burden is on her to help "fix" this girl (which is something I've seen when teenagers have friends with problems like this).

 

[Ara Ann]

How heartbreaking...for all involved.


When my son was in junior high, his best friend at the time planned to commit suicide too. His friend was adopted from Korea and was teased about it, which led to all sorts of problems, even though he was a very well liked boy, he was popular, very smart, played sports etc. I guess he posted online that he was going to kill himself and how and when he was going to do it. Someone spotted it online and reported it to the school...they showed up in his class and escorted him to the office, his mom was waiting and they took him to the hospital from there, as he had planned to do it that very night. He went through counseling, the bullies were dealt with at school, he was put on anti-depressants and came out fine after that. All his friends (he had many) told him how much he meant to them and he got another view of himself after that.

My son continued their friendship, in light of the circumstances, that wasn''t an issue. I really don''t know what to say about your DD''s friend... It is a scary thing for young people to have to face...and it''s also frightening to hear that anti-depressants can CAUSE suicidal thoughts and behavior in teens! I guess my advice would be for your daughter to not avoid her at school, that could make things harder on this girl...but maybe supervised get togethers would be OK? This girl obviously needs attention and positive affirmation...sounds like she is acting out to get what she needs...was she abused or is she being abused? is her home life a mess? She sure isn''t getting what she needs emotionally... Again, very sad.

 

[meresal]

soocool- I'm pretty young (25) and it wasn't very long ago that I had to deal with these sort of things in high school. Your DD sounds like she has a very strong head on her shoulders, and since she is already abstaining from hanging out with this girl, I would leave it at that and trust your daughter. (for now.)

To be honest, the fact that the girl is being so public and non-chalant about her problem and stint in the psych hosp (I know a girl that is like this to this day, and it really bothers me that she talks about it like she jsut went to the mall) means that 1) she isn't even close to healed yet, and 2) it sounds like she's seeking attention and sympathy. It's one thing to answer a question when asked, it's another to provoke a conversation so that she can "share" her information. Coming from someone that was there, don't forbid your DD to see her (it doesn't sound like she wants to be around her anyway), just let her know that if she is ever around the girl for a longer period of time away from school to keep her wits about her and that if she feels uncomfortable to just call or leave.

To me, the worst thing that could come from this, is that by hanging out with the girl, you daughter could end up feeling some sort of obligation towards this girl, and that she somehow is the "only" person that can help her. If I were you, I would just keep your eyes peeled and if she starts seeing this girl more, make sure the other girl isn't taking advantage of your DD's sympathy. It's easy to be manipulated by others, especially when your in high school and haven't had the life experiences telling you who and what to stay away from.

I hope that that makes sense.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 9/16/2009 5:12:27 PM
Author: SanDiegoLady
Do what''s right for your family. Someone should contact child protective services and get some intervention in there for that kiddo.. how awful. There''s obviously a problem for this young girl..

Two years ago, when hubby''s daughter was 14, one of her friends from school committed suicide. She had been abused by her parents for several years and didn''t see any other way out.. its sad.. really sad. This year her boyfriend''s friend overdosed on heroin, he was just 17. Sadly, it happens a lot more than people think.

+1. Do what you have to for your DD. I too worry about this girl. I had a great friend in college that commited suicide. It was sooooo sad.

 

[Elmorton]

I think you''re doing the right thing - sit down with your daughter and talk about it.

In my adolescent psych class in college (yes, I know how ridiculous the beginning of this sentence sounds), one of the most shocking things we discussed was "Suicide Circles." Basically, they happen when a child in a school commits suicide, everyone mourns, and then other children who are depressed see a "positive" response and end up receiving the message that suicide is an appropriate means to end the emotional pain they feel. I think it''s important to discuss suicide/attempts, and not ignore the issue.

It sounds like your daughter is thoughtful, smart, and has a pretty clear understanding about mental illness and what''s going on with her friend, but I think it''s important to discuss this stuff with her, even if it''s a bleak conversation. At 14, one of my close friends attempted suicide, and while it was a big jumble of emotions, at the base of it, I felt very angry. I was mad at her - I was mad because of the hurt she put me through, mad at the attention she received, mad at the choices she made. And then I felt guilty for being angry. Being able to talk about these emotions with my parents was a really good thing - I needed to know that my feelings were valid.

The other thing is that it sounds like your daughter has moved on in terms of friends, but it''s also probably important to talk about how she should behave around this friend. Teenage girls can be very cruel, and if this girl is being so open about her summer, she may be begging the other girls for attention or other girls may use this personal info to hurt her or insult her. Your daughter may need a little guidance about how to be supportive but not accepting/enabling of this girl. I used to work with this age as a camp counselor, and usually self-disclosure with this level of drama (for lack of a better word...maybe seriousness is better?)would either make teenage girls rally around the "victim" or it would be grounds for kicking her out of the group - and sometimes both. Basically, the girl would be accepted because of the crisis and not for who she is, which would cause more problems for the girl, or she''d be rejected because of the crisis. Either way, it sends a pretty clear message of rejection (that junior high girls are very good at sending). What others have said - the best thing your daughter can do is treat this girl in a positive way - acknowledge the good about who she is, but also acknowledge that your daughter can''t fix this girl thus isn''t the right person to deal with the depression/diagnosis, what not. Give your daughter resources for an emergency (a counselor''s number) if she needs it.

Sadly, this is a really good teaching moment - I think we all know someone or have a friend who has had a mental illness, and I doubt this will be the last friend your daughter will encounter who is in crisis. Do what you''re doing - open the lines of communication, and I think your daughter will not only end up just fine, but stronger for it.

 

[cara]

Date: 9/16/2009 3:56:54 PM
Author:soocool
Do I make sure this girl does not have contact with my DD? Should DD stay friends or try to stay friends. The worst thing that could ever happen is if the girl tried something in front of my DD. She did tell DD that she cannot have any sharp objects because she will try to cut herself.

erhe... I am far from an expert but I am not sure why you are so concerned about this girl's contact with your daughter ? fear that suicide is contagious or she'll suck your daughter into her drama? Does she have a history that suggests that is likely?

I get that you want to protect your daughter, but I guess I'm confused about if you just want to protect her from having a friend with depression and mental issues in general, or if there are specific things about her behavior that make such a friendship unhealthy and dangerous for your daughter.

Seems like a great opportunity to talk with your daughter about the difference between being a supportive friend (if that's what she wants to do) and being sucked into someone else's drama. This is not the last time in her life she'll need to set boundaries and figure out how to be supportive and compassionate in a healthy way rather than unhealthy. Also, to talk to her about what issues related to cutting and depression and recovery... And to hear her own opinion on why she's not as eager to hang out with her old friend. Your daughter could just be confused about what she should do or how she should act around her friend (lots of people would be in that situation), she could be picking up on your worries about her being around her friend, or she could be responding to her own self-preservation instincts based on her interaction with her friend.

 

[heb1976]

soocool, what a horrible situation.

I think that your daughter could really help her friend by being there for her and showing her and telling her how important and needed she is and how horrible it would be to lose her. At this age, kids value their friendships and friends opinions more than they do their families. Your daughter's friend telling your daughter about her hospitalization and suicide attempt was a cry for help and for assurance from her friends that she was truly needed and loved by them. Compassion is one of the most important things that humans should have for their fellow humans.

Suicide is serious and should all attempts should be taken very seriously. Most people in these situations don't take them seriously because it's such a horrible thing to accept. My brother committed suicide 3 years ago after attempting twice before. He was 18. Nobody believed he would really do it. After the second time his friends abandoned him and he spiraled quickly downhill. It will be hard but if your daughter can love and support her friend through this then she will be a better person for it. This could be the difference between life and death for her friend. Both your daughter and her friend will be in my thoughts and prayers.

 

[lyra]

Date: 9/16/2009 6:00:58 PM
Author: heb1976

soocool, what a horrible situation.

I think that your daughter could really help her friend by being there for her and showing her and telling her how important and needed she is and how horrible it would be to lose her. At this age, kids value their friendships and friends opinions more than they do their families. Your daughter''s friend telling your daughter about her hospitalization and suicide attempt was a cry for help and for assurance from her friends that she was truly needed and loved by them. Compassion is one of the most important things that humans should have for their fellow humans.

Suicide is serious and should all attempts should be taken very seriously. Most people in these situations don''t take them seriously because it''s such a horrible thing to accept. My brother committed suicide 3 years ago after attempting twice before. He was 18. Nobody believed he would really do it. After the second time his friends abandoned him and he spiraled quickly downhill. It will be hard but if your daughter can love and support her friend through this then she will be a better person for it. This could be the difference between life and death for her friend. Both your daughter and her friend will be in my thoughts and prayers.

I''m sorry for your loss. I disagree with the sentence I highlighted. It''s not fair of you to put that responsibility on anyone else, regardless of your personal feelings. Suicide is a terrible thing, and I wouldn''t wish that kind of loss on anyone, but it is something done by people who are not thinking rationally. Sometimes it can be stopped, most times it cannot. My 22 year old daughter lost a friend to suicide this year, and she felt horribly guilty about it as this young man had left her number as his only contact. She went through months of grief and slipped into depression herself. She is in counselling, and is doing much better now. She could not have stopped him. He gave her no warning. She knew he had emotional problems, but his death came as a complete shock to her.

To the OP, definitely seek counselling for your daughter and yourself. Best to seek professional advice in this situation.

 

[Haven]

Date: 9/16/2009 5:27:32 PM
Author: cara

Date: 9/16/2009 3:56:54 PM
Author:soocool
Do I make sure this girl does not have contact with my DD? Should DD stay friends or try to stay friends. The worst thing that could ever happen is if the girl tried something in front of my DD. She did tell DD that she cannot have any sharp objects because she will try to cut herself.

erhe... I am far from an expert but I am not sure why you are so concerned about this girl's contact with your daughter ? fear that suicide is contagious or she'll suck your daughter into her drama? Does she have a history that suggests that is likely?

I get that you want to protect your daughter, but I guess I'm confused about if you just want to protect her from having a friend with depression and mental issues in general, or if there are specific things about her behavior that make such a friendship unhealthy and dangerous for your daughter.

Seems like a great opportunity to talk with your daughter about the difference between being a supportive friend (if that's what she wants to do) and being sucked into someone else's drama. This is not the last time in her life she'll need to set boundaries and figure out how to be supportive and compassionate in a healthy way rather than unhealthy. Also, to talk to her about what issues related to cutting and depression and recovery... And to hear her own opinion on why she's not as eager to hang out with her old friend. Your daughter could just be confused about what she should do or how she should act around her friend (lots of people would be in that situation), she could be picking up on your worries about her being around her friend, or she could be responding to her own self-preservation instincts based on her interaction with her friend.

Ditto to Cara's entire post.

I'll also add that if your daughter does maintain a friendship with this girl, it is very important that your daughter understands that being a friend sometimes means protecting someone from herself. In other words, if this girl does confide in your daughter that she is suicidal, it is in your daughter's best interest, and her friend's, that your daughter feels comfortable enough to tell someone about it. I imagine you can teach her this, or whatever professional you seek out could do it. This is the biggest problem for teens with suicidal friends--they feel obligated to keep a secret for their friend and they can't reason out that the possible consequences of keeping that secret could include death. Instead, they believe they are being good friends by keeping mum.

We lost a lot of students to suicide when I was a high school teacher, and in every single case there was always a terribly distraught friend who either knew about the deceased's suicide plans, or saw red flags but didn't tell anyone because she thought that would be a betrayal of the friendship, or she thought the deceased was just looking for attention.

On that note, it's important to remind everyone that every single suicide threat should be taken seriously. It is not your job to decide whether this person is just doing it for attention or not, rather you should feel some obligation to alert someone who is in a position to provide professional help that you cannot.

 

[soocool]

I have just finished reading all of your responses and have found much of it very useful and will share it with DD. I too have known people who have committed suicide.
When I was a teen my friend''s older brother killed himself the day after he finished med school. One of my neighbor''s grandsons killed himself 3years ago and no one, not even his girlfriend had any idea. He was not depressed or anything in their opinion. He was popluar and a good student with a bright future. One of DD''s friend''s father committed suicide just prior to that. He was 50 years old and a prominent dentist and according to his wife was depressed and had just started on medication. No one saw that coming either.

DD''s friend is a very lovely girl. I truly adore her. DD and she were inseparable in 7th grade. They always hung out togther. Then something happened after 8th grade and she never returned DD''s calls and when DD tried to make plans, she would always cancel. DD never ignored or gave up on her. She hung out with her other friends and excluded DD at times. To tell you the truth I don''t know if this is because her mother doesn''t want the 2 of them hanging out together.

I think being a teen is difficult enough. I have left the decision up to DD whether she wants to pursue this friendship and she said that as she sees it there is no friendship because DD makes the attempts and the girl blows it off. DD has moved on. She has many other friends and will remain nice to this girl but doesn''t see any future in the friendship.

But I strongly agree with those who said that if the girl does try to commit suicide again then my DD would feel that she somehow allowed it to happen. How is a teen or anyone else for that matter supposed to know all the signs. Apparently, I was sufficiently worried when she called me crying to pick her up and have her stay at my house. Her mom didn''t seem the least bit concerned. I did contact the school''s counselor and Cares Cordinator after that event and they told me that they can''t discuss the nature of the circumstances with me, but thanked me for the information and will take it from there.

So while I tried to help, I still somehow feel responsible since I wasn''t able to strongly convey my fears about the girl to her mother. Luckliy the girl failed in her suicide attempt.

 

[Porridge]

Don''t feel responsible soocool, it''s impossible to tell at the time, and you can''t treat every situation as if it will potentially end in suicide.

I think good points have been made here regarding keeping open channels of communication between you and your DD, and possibly seeking counselling for advice on what to do. Your DD''s friend is sick, and she will meet many more sick people in her life, be it mentally or physically. The danger may be that your DD may be manipulated into feeling guilty should something ever happen to this girl. How very sad, I hope she comes through it alright.

 

[swingirl]

Date: 9/16/2009 6:59:25 PM
Author: soocool
So while I tried to help, I still somehow feel responsible since I wasn't able to strongly convey my fears about the girl to her mother. Luckliy the girl failed in her suicide attempt.

You really don't want your teenage DD to feel responsible for her friend's mental state and possible suicide attempts. Allow DD to decide how close she wants to get to her friend. She'll know if it feels right. I am guessing this girl's behavior is frightening and she's difficult to be around.

Trying to help someone who is suicidal is quite a responsibility for a 17 year old.

My DD had a friend who committed suicide. She was at our house 2 days before chatting away. They made plans for the weekend. How could any of us have known what was going on in her head?

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I am really on the fence with this...I don''t want to restate any valid points made by Cara and Haven...but I feel the same way they do.

I totally get where you''re coming from. You''re a mom, and ergo you want to protect your child from the ugly things in life--you want to save her any grief and spare her any hurt. But I really believe that you need to let your DD figure this out for herself. Their friendship needs to seek its own level, and you need to support that--whatever that may be. There is a good lesson this for your DD.

Depression and mental illness are not contagious. They are diseases and needed to be treated as such. Some people are predisposed to them, others will live a lifetime without enduring them. Suicide, likewise, is not contagious. It is a symptom of the disease. Your daughters friend is still a child...a child who is climbing a mountain. My heart breaks for this her, to be honest. She''s sick and she shouldn''t be treated like a leppar because of it--she can''t help the way her brain works, she just needs time to sort it out.

I try to remember what I felt at 16 or 17...when everything was life or death, do or die. That''s a difficult time for everyone...so I try to put myself in her shoes, couple every normal pitfall of youth with a mental illness, and it''s overwhelming. I think that because she''s open with her illness, she''s doing her best to work through it. She''s not ashamed of what she cannot control...she is also confronting her demons by owning it. She''s saying "this is where I was and this is what I tried to do ... but this is where I am now, I''m feeling better". She just wants normalicy back and rather than pretend it didn''t happen and allow the rumor mill to start disecting her life she''s facing it head on. I am sure she''s had professional consultion on how to handle this.

I also try to think about how it would affect this girl to lose all her friends. That would be heartwrenching for her. I''m not saying that you need to allow them to remain friends only because of that...but it''s something to think about it. This girl was a good friend--she''s just sick right now and is working on getting better. Taking her friends away is more or less punishing her for something that is beyond her control. She wouldn''t choose to be sick, nor would she intentionally hurt the people she cared about.

In the end, I think until she is directly hurting your daughter--be it school or whatever--that you should really consider trusting your daughter to make the best decision that works for her.

((hugs))

 

[Camille]

Oh soocool, very sorry about DD's friend

We teach our children to be nice, accepting and tolerant to others but there's a fine line here. Suicide is major, it's for the professionals to deal with.
If DD doesn't go out of her way to see her anymore, spells separation. I'd support that NOW and as a mother, wouldn't expose any of mine to souch a sad situation, very sorry to say.

 

[movie zombie]

things were fine in 7th grade but then in 8th grade something happened? could there be something deeply unhealthy happening in her family home or with another family adult? please make the call to protective services. this girl called you at one point begging to get her out of there.....this screams to me of abuse of one kind or another. i''m not saying you need to be her guardian angel but perhaps she needs someone to bring someone into the picture who can.

mz

 

[purrfectpear]

Based on what you''ve posted, it sounds like your daughter has moved on and thinks of this girl as more of a past best friend/acquaintance now. There''s nothing wrong with that. Kids do let go of friendships especially when the girl sort of pulled herself away.

I agree with having a nice talk with your DD about how it''s OK to tell a responsible adult if she happens to come into some info thats important, and how it''s not "snitching". I''d let her decide on her own how much involvement she chooses to have with the girl. I''m thinking it''s not going to be more than a "Hi" in the hallway. I would talk with her about how cliques and bullying can push someone unstable into bad choices, and make sure that DD has the confidence to stand up to a crowd if they pick on the girl. She doesn''t have to be her champion, but I''d tell her how disappointed I would be if she ever took part in that sort of thing, and leave it at that. We had a few attempted suicides when I was in high school. It was usually over some drama about a failed BF/GF thing. It''s doubly sad when it''s about how the kid feels about themselves and their family relationship

 

[soocool]

Just wanted to let you know that I spoke with DD''s school counselor this morning about what happened yesterday and she was somewhat surprised also at the way the girl just told my DD and her other friend about her suicide attempt. She then called the school psychologist into her office who asked me what transpired yesterday, because apparently the girl told a few other kids in the same manner and he seemed extremely concerned after speaking wth me.

The school counselor said she would speak to my DD either today or tomorrow about it as well.

 

[lyra]

Good to hear that you were able to communicate with the counsellors, that was the best thing to do. I hope this girl gets the treatment and care she needs. I''m also thankful that the school listened to you this time and didn''t brush you off. You did a good thing!

 

[crystalheart1]

I agree with all the responses posted. I am very sad for the girl, and what is happening with your DD. It is a difficult situation for all.

Before I read your response, I was also going to mention that you should discuss this with the school counselor and psychologist.
They should be able to talk to your daughter about the best way to handle this.
Also, it sounds like you have a great path of communication with DD. I comend you for that.

Are you aware if there is any abuse in the house? There seems to be a few red flags..Are there any other children in the home?

When I was about that age , I dated someone briefly who later commited suicide. I use to babysit his younger brother and sister. His parents were the nicest people. They spoiled all their kids. I was not aware of any mental illness or depression. In fact, at the time I found him to be one of the most mature and together teenagers I had known. You just never can tell.

Best of luck