My thoughts today are with the the women and girls of Afganistan

[kenny]

As US troops withdraw from their 20 years of 'nation building', the Taliban is taking over taking over the country ... again.
The Afghan president just fled the country.

Afghan women fear return to 'dark days' amid Taliban sweep

The Taliban's lightning advance across Afghanistan has stirred fears they will reimpose their fundamentalist interpretation of Islam and all but eliminate women's rights.

apnews.com

 

[missy]

 

[kenny]

Quote from above link ... Why the Taliban is no bueno ...

"The fundamentalist group ruled the country for five years until the 2001 U.S.-led invasion. During that time, it forbade girls an education and women the right to work, and refused even to let them travel outside their homes without a male relative to accompany them. The Taliban also carried out public executions, chopped off the hands of thieves and stoned women accused of adultery."

 

[Ally T]

Super bright children who have been offered scholarship in the UK, amazing girls who could go on to great, great things, are now denied due to red tape. What happens now? They marry someone from the Taliban & bear his children, whilst wearing a full veil & keeping home?

BBC News - UK scholarships for Afghan students paused

UK scholarships for Afghan students paused

The government says the situation in Afghanistan means the British Embassy in Kabul cannot finalise plans.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Matata]

I guess the purpose of women is sex, home making, and baby making.

Kind of like America prior to the success of the women's rights movement sans the beheading and stuff.

Praise Hayseus

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

My thoughts as well. I am beyond sad and very angry.

 

[Jambalaya]

It's too terrible to even think about. I just can't. There are no words to express the horror these women and girls are going through as the Taliban descends on Kabul.

ETA: It really puts your own problems into perspective.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

FFS

 

[yssie]

A whole generation of girls who got to go to school, have careers, dream about making their mark on the world.

The president fled his own country today. He betrayed his people more wholly and more heartlessly than anyone else possibly could. My personal morality cannot justify expending more American money and more American lives on a governance that's had twenty years to get its sh*t together and has failed SO miserably.

But the cost of washing our hands of an entire generation that so clearly depends on our troops is so high.

No answers. No ideas, even. No one wins here.

 

[Lookinagain]

A whole generation of girls who got to go to school, have careers, dream about making their mark on the world.

The president fled his own country today. He betrayed his people more wholly and more heartlessly than anyone else possibly could. My personal morality cannot justify expending more American money and more American lives on a governance that's had twenty years to get its sh*t together and has failed SO miserably.

But the cost of washing our hands of an entire generation that so clearly depends on our troops is so high.

No answers. No ideas, even. No one wins here.

I totally agree. I don't know that the U.S. staying longer would have changed anything. We couldn't stay there forever. And apparently their army won't fight or barely does so. I don't know the answer either, but it is truly very sad.

 

[Lookinagain]

sans the beheading and stuff.

Yes, but isn't that what makes it worse? I agree, women in the U.S. have had to fight for rights and are still fighting for some. But as a woman who was fighting back in the 70's for some of those rights, I never had to worry about being beheaded and "stuff". I was free to fight to do things like keep my maiden name ( I couldn't when i moved to Missouri); go to law school, have my own credit cards, etc. But now, those things seem so small compared to what the Afghani women are fighting for. I just don't want to compare the two.

 

[Snowdrop13]

This is just so depressing. And it’s not just the women and girls, all those who helped the West, translators, police, soldiers and the like, will be in grave danger.

 

[dk168]

The military personnel from various countries who died in the conflict through the years must be turning in the graves! R.I.P..

DK

 

[Jambalaya]

I keep looking at the events over there and feeling helpless and horrified. Those poor souls at the airport, desperate to get out. I can't even imagine.

This is a good illustration of why I'm not very enthusiastic to join in when people catastrophize about the "state" of the US and are really negative about it. Looking at our country in a global context, we are SO LUCKY to live here. Those women and girls in Afghanistan would give anything to be here, probably. And the men, too, of course.

I'm in early middle age, and it was only in the generation before me that women had to give up work when they got married. My mother was working at an airline on the ground in 1959 and she was going to be cabin crew. But she got married in 1960 and had to give up work. Not give up the idea of flying, actually give up the job, just because she got married. She was not pregnant. This is in America! And my neighbour, who is 70 and still working at the company where she has worked for 45 years, says that back in the day, the women had to use the back staircase. And at that time, the office was in NEW YORK!!

My point is, look how far we've come. Women were in the kitchen, pretty much, and until 1965, we had legal segregation. And now we've had/have a president and vice-president of color, the latter also female. All that progress in approximately two generations! LGBTQ rights have also come a LONG way in that time. The fact that there is still so much work to do on that front doesn't take away from what's been achieved, when you consider where LGBTQ rights were, legally and socially, just a generation or two ago.

Oh, man, I KNOW we have far to go. I know we do. But we have come so far in a relatively short space of time. Look how free we are compared to so many other countries whose people suffer under totalitarian states. I think we are very lucky, and I wish that society would sometimes take a moment to focus on the positive aspects of our country's social achievements, which are so impressive when you consider what things were like as recently as the late Fifties and early Sixties. I think our society's negative self-image must surely be responsible for encouraging depression, especially among young people whose perspectives may not be as seasoned/balanced as older people's.

I think it's fair to say that the situation in Afghanistan is an extremely sobering reality check. For me, at least.

Edited.

ETA: Even as recently as the Eighties, society was far more discriminatory against women and all minority groups than it is now. And you only have to watch Friends to realize how much social progress has been made since the Nineties. The fact that the show aged so badly demonstrates that our society is continuing to progress with each generation.

I know that change can't come fast enough on all fronts where discrimination exists, but in the light of the terrible, terrible things happening in Afghanistan, I think it's a good moment to reflect on how lucky we are to be in the US and to consider how far we've come - and how lucky we are to be able to keep progressing forward, slow though it might seem at times.

 

[Bonfire]

It’s horrific, but we are doing the right thing. We shouldn’t be there indefinitely. Nobody has ever been successful fighting in Afghanistan. It’s been called the “Graveyard of Empires.” Alexander the Great, The Persians, The Mongols, The British, The Soviets and USA, nobody has had any success there.

 

[kenny]

Good points, Jambalaya.
I often complain about how far America still has to go.
But indeed, I understand I was lucky to be born here, and white and male, as unfair as it is.

I'm gobsmacked at the chaos at Kabul's airport as many thousands swarm the tarmac and runways desperately scrambling to get out of Afghanistan, even clinging to the outside of a US military jet taxiing.
There's another video of people, who reportedly clung to the jet's wheel assembly, falling to their deaths after the jet is in the air.
OMG!

I won't post a video, which I now wish I could unsee.

 

[Lookinagain]

Edited.

ETA: Even as recently as the Eighties, society was far more discriminatory against women and all minority groups than it is now.

That’s absolutely true. And many young women don’t even realize that. Many do but many don’t and are often flabbergasted when they hear what rights women did not have in the 80s that they have today. Reminders of that are good in my opinion because rights can always be diminished if there’s no one around to fight for them.

 

[Jambalaya]

It’s been called the “Graveyard of Empires.” Alexander the Great, The Persians, The Mongols, The British, The Soviets and USA, nobody has had any success there.

That's very interesting. I wonder why that is.

 

[Matata]

Interesting perspective on the situation:

Opinion | Why Afghan Forces So Quickly Laid Down Their Arms

Opposing Afghan factions have long negotiated arrangements to stop fighting — something the U.S. either failed to understand or chose to ignore.

www.politico.com

 

[Lookinagain]

Interesting perspective on the situation:

Opinion | Why Afghan Forces So Quickly Laid Down Their Arms

Opposing Afghan factions have long negotiated arrangements to stop fighting — something the U.S. either failed to understand or chose to ignore.

www.politico.com

Very. sheds some light on why their army didn't put up a fight.

 

[mrs-b]

There are concrete ways to help. I support a charity called Women For Women International. They support the women of war torn countries or countries where women are the victims of human rights violations. As regards Afghanistan, they're currently involved in active relocation of women and children. They're worth contributing to.

Also, Canada has committed to taking 20,000 Afghan refugees - predominantly women and children. Lobby your govt to do the same. Contact your local member of parliament or contact the White House and voice your support for taking the most vulnerable on the basis of asylum. It's more than justified.

 

[Bonfire]

That's very interesting. I wonder why that is.

Why Is Afghanistan the ‘Graveyard of Empires’?

A brief history of the empires that were broken in the Hindu Kush.

thediplomat.com

This 2017 article is informative of the history. To your specific question @Jambalaya, the last paragraph explains pretty well.

 

[TooPatient]

A friend is trying to get a friend of his out of the country. He and his family are in serious danger as he worked with the US. It is heartbreaking. I was able to get him in touch with a man who was actively working at the letters needed to get people into the US. That man was just so defeated and frustrated yesterday. So hopeless.

 

[FL_runner]

823 People, One Jet: Flight Trackers Reveal Heroic, Desperate Effort In Chaotic Afghanistan Evacuation

Online flight tracking data reveal a massive airlift under way in a desperate bid to evacuate tens of thousands of expatriates and Afghan allies from Kabul even as Taliban fighters secure their hold on the capital.

www.google.com

The US presence needed to end- the idea of rapidly building a western style democracy with a strong “national” identity and reliance on western-style infrastructure, culture and social norms in a country that is completely different culturally, socially, historically, economically, etc without really understanding what (if anything) would work for the people was probably doomed from the start. But but the rapid takeover by the Taliban and the chaos of the evacuation is heartbreaking. I’ve honestly cried multiple times reading about and seeing images/videos of the people desperate to escape. A generation of women and children have been raised thinking they would have stability, education, the ability to work- and it’s been stripped away so quickly. Many activists and women with social media presence have already been threatened, kidnapped or killed by Taliban.

In addition, I can only imagine how stressed and desperate the aircrews trying to get people out are, while the airfield is under attack. Cramming as many people as you can and praying you can still take off and get them safely out, then go back for more knowing you are racing the clock and you may not be able to get everyone out. I don’t like sharing personal details but I’m in the Air Force and previously flew (aeromedical evac) and this is a serious nightmare. I still remember the first patients I took care of and lost in the hospital during my training were traumas evacuated from Afghanistan all those years ago… there’s this feeling of “was all this loss on all sides for nothing”. If we can just help evacuate people who will be tortured and persecuted for wanting better in life at least it will be something.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

It honestly makes me so frustrated and furious that this exit was not better planned. Everyone knew the US was going to withdraw - why on earth did they not slowly evacuate all the Afghans who worked with them and their families (and this applies to all the countries who had a presence in Afghanistan!) it was clear from the start that the army was not going to be able to hold off the Taliban. Why was this left to the last minute?

Its sickening to think of what’s going to happen to those left behind, but it’s even more sickening to think of those who fell in with western ideology, did their best to reform the society they lived in - and who may pay the ultimate price now that the country has fallen.

 

[Aerielle Max]

Back on the old times when women are not allowed to go out. And children not allowed to go to school as far as I now.

 

[Dancing Fire]

It honestly makes me so frustrated and furious that this exit was not better planned. Everyone knew the US was going to withdraw - why on earth did they not slowly evacuate all the Afghans who worked with them and their families (and this applies to all the countries who had a presence in Afghanistan!) it was clear from the start that the army was not going to be able to hold off the Taliban. Why was this left to the last minute?

A few good Qs for JB...

 

[Jambalaya]

Thanks so much for the links, everyone. I'm mostly at work for the next week, but I'm going to read them the week after when things are calmer.

 

[Ionysis]

I’m so glad someone posted on this. It has been keeping me awake the past nights. I cannot imagine what horrendous atrocities are being inflicted against those considered to be “westernised” or collaborating with the “enemy”.

So many lives given up for nothing. What an abominable waste of EVERYTHING that’s was committed to trying to make the world safer, that country better. Just heartbreaking. Vietnam but 100 times worse.

 

[CSpan]

A friend is trying to get a friend of his out of the country. He and his family are in serious danger as he worked with the US. It is heartbreaking. I was able to get him in touch with a man who was actively working at the letters needed to get people into the US. That man was just so defeated and frustrated yesterday. So hopeless.

If he isn't already in touch with Afghanistan task force at State you may want to contact on his behalf.

Also, this is super paranoid but if you or your non-Afghan friend have any links or photos that identify this person or his family on social media - delete them! The Taliban wants to find "collaborators" and our social media will expose connections between westerners and Afghan interpreters, translators, support staff