More senseless killing in Paris

[AGBF]

https://niskanencenter.org/blog/six-reasons-to-welcome-syrian-refugees-after-paris/

Thank you for posting that, Matata. I don't know where you find these things! Sometimes I lose faith in people's essential charity and love for one another. And no, it is not because I do not understand fear. As some of you may recall, my husband's office was on Wall Street on 9/11 although he is now working in Washington, DC. It was a fluke that he was on a retreat in rural Massachusetts for one day when the airplanes hit the twin towers. His office was filled with dust and sealed off by the National Guard. I know what can and did happen on our ground. But refugees are people in trouble, not terrorists.

Hugs,
Deb
(((Matata)))

 

[missy]

I am so sad reading what some posters have written. Telephone, I don't think anyone here would behave the way you described. Crossing the street, making disparaging remarks, treating the refugees like outcasts, as if they are subhuman???? I am sorry you hold such a low opinion of many of us. My heart truly hurts for all the displaced people. I have family who died in the concentration camps and it upsets me to read your sarcastic comments. I have huge compassion and empathy for these Syrian refugees. We are all just trying to figure out a solution that would satisfy most re safety concerns.

I am one who would go and embrace the Syrian refugees should they become neighbors or should I meet them another way. I would absolutely go out of my way to make them feel comfortable and welcome. I would invite them into my home and do whatever I could to help them adjust to their new life in America. So please don't think you know me or any of us from sharing our concerns re safety here.

Discussion needs to continue to find a good solution. Goodness knows I don't have much faith in any of the politicians all with their own personal agendas. We need to focus on how can we get everyone (as many countries as possible) to participate in providing a home for the refugees in the safest manner possible. And yes I think these young men from Syria *should* fight for their country. Are you against that? Fighting for their freedom is the right thing and will make democracy mean that much more.

Telephone, IMO, it is a privilege to live here. Idk where you live but I sure hope you live somewhere you feel privileged to live. I hope we can continue a civil discussion because your last post fell a bit short IMO. My point of view only.

 

[chrono]

The "little towns" with armed guards bring back memories of the Japanese interment camps the US created during the war. What happens if someone wants to leave? Will they be shot? Punished? Imprisoned? It seems such a slippery slope, inching ever closer in similarity to the Jewish imprisonment camps. Such a thought doesn't sit well with me although I do not know of any easy solution to this.

 

[autumngems]

It's a sad world.

My daughter is 17 and she had nightmares last night and could not sleep over all this. There was a post about sertain cities in certain states being warned of ISIS and we live close to one of those cities and are afiliated with military so that has been on her mind. She texted me at work from school saying she is scared and wished she could carry a gun.

How do you reassure your child......................

 

[Matata]

How do you reassure your child......................

You don't, you can't. You tell her the world is a scary place with scary people and her choice is to live in fear or live in hope. And then you give her all the love she needs to live in hope. Teach her, encourage her to be part of a solution to society's ills and to work one person at a time, starting with herself, toward a better future. That's the best any of us can do.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Both my son and I love Paris. He is also a more sensitive human being than I. He has several photos of the Eiffel Tower at night. He brought one to the train station and asked the ticketman to put the photo in the window to show solidarity with France, which the fellow was happy to do. When he arrived at Union station his feeling of goodwill vanished as he saw officers armed with machine guns patrolling Union Station(Like Grand Central-all the trains meet here). He said he did feel fear and wanted to get out of there immediately. I was very surprised myself to hear this.

I have never once thought anyone who was participating in this discussion wasn't genuinely concerned about the issues of terrorism and the refugees. But I can see how a few people can come in and change the whole tenor of the thread. Refugees are re-settled by charities and once they are resettled, they are on their own. Refugees are what used to be called displaced persons. They can move about freely, and most probably will be given a green card for work. This is the American way.

In Europe there are 3 million refugees. That's a real problem.. The US is not taking the lead here, nor should it for once. Germany has taken the lead. France, Russia, Turkey and hopefully Saudia Arabia will also take the lead. We should help IMO, but not lead tHe effort.

As usual, as a thread continues, it deteriorates. Thanks for the good rational people here who are able to discuss differing opinions without calling others bigots. I know you are not- -not one of you.

Annette

 

[Jambalaya]

News outlets are reporting that the Parisian people are determined not to let the terrorists disrupt their way of life and that last night people went out in droves to bars, restaurants and cafes, and the hashtag "Je suis en terrace" or something close that means "I'm on the terrace" went viral on Twitter. A Northern Irish band continued with their planned gig, and people made an extra effort to go out in public to defy the terrorists' aim of instilling fear, and also to support all the bars, restaurants, and cafes which are experiencing low takings. That's the spirit! I approve. Autumngems, perhaps you could show your daughter that coverage.

I plan to go to a world sporting event early next year at a stadium, and it crossed my mind that since many nations will be represented, there's a risk of terrorism. I admit that it did cross my mind not to buy tickets, but only briefly. I love this sport and I am going to go and have fun, and not worry about it. As I've said upthread, the chances of something happening are minute, anyway. I am determined to look forward to the event and extract maximum enjoyment out of it, and I refuse to worry.

I've read stuff about various airports being closed, about some woman on a plane becoming hysterical because a Muslim man was watching the news on his phone - which resulted in him and his family being booted off the plane - and many other places being shut down temporarily, and how on edge everyone is.

People are becoming hysterical and everyone really needs to calm down. The chances of being involved in anything are so incredibly small. I bet the terrorists are just loving all this chaos.

 

[telephone89]

I just needed a break from this thread. But I do have more now

I'm sorry if my post upset some people. However, I took pieces from posts ON THIS THREAD to make that post. Underneath, I have put my interpretation of the text. I fully expect a bunch of 'but that's not what I meant!' replies, which is totally fine. That's why I'm clarifying it was my interpretation. My interpretation of the prejudice being expressed, and why I posted what I did before. ALSO - I'm not trying to call any particular posters out - only the text used. I don't remember who said what, as I only copied and pasted the text. Apologies if anyone thinks I'm trying to pick on them, because I'm not - only trying to show the attitudes with which I disagreed with.

For example:

As to the poor refugees I do not fault Slovenia for putting up a fence
Yep, so that's great. Just put up a fence to keep em out...or in

I guess my solution would be giving them some land somewhere. Don't we have an empty island we can give them or build one like the Chinese have done
My little towns idea eh. Just throw em somewhere to keep em out of the way!

I think the chances are great countries will be importing terrorists, so I oppose taking them in here.
Yes, because refugees=terrorists, got it!

Well the Refugees are starting to arrive in the US, New Orleans first. Nothing about this makes me feel safer. Coming to a city near you 10,000 Refuges headed to 180 cites. How long before we are reading the headlines about a coordinated attack on US soil?
"Coming to a city near you...Coordinated attack on us soil"

welcoming in more refugees is just too risky IMO
Risky? Their life in a war torn country is risky.

I saw a US map this morning where you can see if (and about how many) refugees have been placed in your city and it was a bit scary.
Oh noes! There could be a refugee down the block from me!

As much as I can sympathize with the fact that they need help, I can't support their presence here in light of what has happened.
Aka - I know it wasn't their fault. But they are still terrorists to me

Tell me on The day after 9/11 did you think we should bring in refugees more people who want to kill Americans?
So now all refugees want to kill americans?

We are gonna take in about 100-200K refugees? why are we importing terrorists? ... not only importing terrorists, but we'll have to support them with taxpayer money too...
Again, refugees=terrorists. AND WE'LL HAVE TO PAY TAXES THE HORROR

It makes me uncomfortable, not knowing, and that means that I can't support relocating them here.
Not knowing = ignorance. Didn't I say something about that previously...?

I am not comfortable with more Syrian immigrants here.
At least this was straight up.

What I think would be a good start is to take male Syrian refugees of fighting age and have them fight against ISIS, just like our young men have been drafted in the past to go fight a battle for others.
Mandatory conscription - great move.

 

[telephone89]

I saw this on FB yesterday and also wanted to share it.

Its a bit small. Here is the full link
https://www.facebook.com/roger.benham.98/posts/1107244335954687

 

[Jambalaya]

I like your post, Telephone. Thank you for highlighting some of the dim-witted fear and prejudice that has occurred in this thread. I wish Americans could react like the Europeans, staunchly refusing to live in fear instead of cowering and quivering like a bunch of Jellos. Example: A woman had four people thrown off a Spirit Airlines plane bound for Chicago because they were of Middle Eastern descent and one was watching the news on his phone. Another passenger said that she "was right next to the whole thing" and could have "kissed the ground" after the flight, which eventually took off after a three-hour delay to establish that the passengers were totally innocent. Could those hysterical women be any more pathetic? Apparently you are not allowed to watch the news on your phone in peace anymore if you are descended from the Middle East. Meanwhile, there are no consequences for the woman's bullying of innocent people and waste of police time. I love the way Parisians resolved to go out and enjoy themselves this week. Je suis en terrace - fab. I'm going out and about in a nearby major city this week, too. Je suis en terrace aussi.

 

[telephone89]

I too think I shall celebrate the weekend with a bottle of champagne. TBH I love their attitude. They will not cower in fear. They will live their life (their awesome Parisian life!) and not let the terrorists win.

 

[AGBF]

The "little towns" with armed guards bring back memories of the Japanese interment camps the US created during the war. What happens if someone wants to leave? Will they be shot? Punished? Imprisoned? It seems such a slippery slope, inching ever closer in similarity to the Jewish imprisonment camps.

Chrono,I believe that telephone was using hyperbole to make the point that "a little town" where people would have no liberties and would be kept under guard would be a kind of concentration camp. Need I say that she did not, actually, endorse such a plan?

Deb/AGBF

 

[telephone89]

The "little towns" with armed guards bring back memories of the Japanese interment camps the US created during the war. What happens if someone wants to leave? Will they be shot? Punished? Imprisoned? It seems such a slippery slope, inching ever closer in similarity to the Jewish imprisonment camps.

Chrono,I believe that telephone was using hyperbole to make the point that "a little town" where people would have no liberties and would be kept under guard would be a kind of concentration camp. Need I say that she did not, actually, endorse such a plan?

Deb/AGBF

Thank you. I am on another board where there is a 'sarcasm font' (pink/purple comic sans). It's hard to tell tone on the interwebz!

 

[momhappy]

....and the bashing continues.... I guess I'm done with this thread. Thanks to those who shared their thoughtful responses, opinions, etc. without judgement, name-calling, and finger-pointing. It's too bad the discussion had to deteriorate.

 

[chrono]

The "little towns" with armed guards bring back memories of the Japanese interment camps the US created during the war. What happens if someone wants to leave? Will they be shot? Punished? Imprisoned? It seems such a slippery slope, inching ever closer in similarity to the Jewish imprisonment camps.

Chrono,I believe that telephone was using hyperbole to make the point that "a little town" where people would have no liberties and would be kept under guard would be a kind of concentration camp. Need I say that she did not, actually, endorse such a plan?

Deb/AGBF

Thank you. I am on another board where there is a 'sarcasm font' (pink/purple comic sans). It's hard to tell tone on the interwebz!

Oh, thank you for the clarification. Tone is indeed very difficult to convey with text alone.

 

[AGBF]

The "little towns" with armed guards bring back memories of the Japanese interment camps the US created during the war. What happens if someone wants to leave? Will they be shot? Punished? Imprisoned? It seems such a slippery slope, inching ever closer in similarity to the Jewish imprisonment camps.

Chrono,I believe that telephone was using hyperbole to make the point that "a little town" where people would have no liberties and would be kept under guard would be a kind of concentration camp. Need I say that she did not, actually, endorse such a plan?

Thank you. I am on another board where there is a 'sarcasm font' (pink/purple comic sans). It's hard to tell tone on the interwebz!

Oh, thank you for the clarification. Tone is indeed very difficult to convey with text alone.

I am happy to help out. My postings are usually the ones that are misinterpreted, because I make heavy use of irony. As you pointed out, and missy pointed out earlier in this thread, tone is very difficult to "hear" in writing. In a thread like this one where good people are struggling to to make themselves understood, anytime we can help each other, we should. I know that missy helped me earlier in the thread.

Deb

 

[Matata]

IThank you for highlighting some of the dim-witted fear and prejudice that has occurred in this thread.

You need to apologize for those deliberately mean words Jambalaya. Some of those whom you have labeled so harshly are the same who have offered you advice and support in your whiny threads about your personal life. Get the point?

 

[chemgirl]

Example: A woman had four people thrown off a Spirit Airlines plane bound for Chicago because they were of Middle Eastern descent and one was watching the news on his phone. Another passenger said that she "was right next to the whole thing" and could have "kissed the ground" after the flight, which eventually took off after a three-hour delay to establish that the passengers were totally innocent. Could those hysterical women be any more pathetic? Apparently you are not allowed to watch the news on your phone in peace anymore if you are descended from the Middle East. Meanwhile, there are no consequences for the woman's bullying of innocent people and waste of police time. I love the way Parisians resolved to go out and enjoy themselves this week. Je suis en terrace - fab. I'm going out and about in a nearby major city this week, too. Je suis en terrace aussi.

What I don't get is how someone could witness this and feel anything but compassion for that family. How do they explain this to their children?

People like the "kiss the ground lady" highlight why the refugee debate is so dangerous. There is so much fear directed at anyone who looks like they might be of middle eastern descent. If history is any indicator, fear can make us do some pretty awful things.

 

[missy]

IThank you for highlighting some of the dim-witted fear and prejudice that has occurred in this thread.

You need to apologize for those deliberately mean words Jambalaya. Some of those whom you have labeled so harshly are the same who have offered you advice and support in your whiny threads about your personal life. Get the point?

I agree completely with Matata.
Jambalaya do you know the meaning of the word ironic?

....and the bashing continues.... I guess I'm done with this thread. Thanks to those who shared their thoughtful responses, opinions, etc. without judgement, name-calling, and finger-pointing. It's too bad the discussion had to deteriorate.

momhappy, I agree. Thanks to a few this thread has seriously deteriorated which shows that a few bad apples can really spoil it for everyone.

 

[Jambalaya]

IThank you for highlighting some of the dim-witted fear and prejudice that has occurred in this thread.

You need to apologize for those deliberately mean words Jambalaya. Some of those whom you have labeled so harshly are the same who have offered you advice and support in your whiny threads about your personal life. Get the point?

I don't need to apologize for anything, Matata. It's my opinion that some dim-witted fear and prejudice has occurred in this thread and I won't be bullied out of that opinion by the likes of you. I also could care less if you consider me whiny.

 

[Jambalaya]

Example: A woman had four people thrown off a Spirit Airlines plane bound for Chicago because they were of Middle Eastern descent and one was watching the news on his phone. Another passenger said that she "was right next to the whole thing" and could have "kissed the ground" after the flight, which eventually took off after a three-hour delay to establish that the passengers were totally innocent. Could those hysterical women be any more pathetic? Apparently you are not allowed to watch the news on your phone in peace anymore if you are descended from the Middle East. Meanwhile, there are no consequences for the woman's bullying of innocent people and waste of police time. I love the way Parisians resolved to go out and enjoy themselves this week. Je suis en terrace - fab. I'm going out and about in a nearby major city this week, too. Je suis en terrace aussi.

What I don't get is how someone could witness this and feel anything but compassion for that family. How do they explain this to their children?

People like the "kiss the ground lady" highlight why the refugee debate is so dangerous. There is so much fear directed at anyone who looks like they might be of middle eastern descent. If history is any indicator, fear can make us do some pretty awful things.

I know, and that kind of fear is just so ignorant. I felt very sorry for that Middle Eastern family indeed. The chances that she's sitting next to a terrorist on a plane are so, so small, and all he was doing was looking at his phone! On the Tube in London this week a man relentlessly harassed a very young woman wearing a hijab, and luckily another man stepped in and helped her. This is what fear and prejudice can lead to - bullying and harassment just because someone is of a different culture or race. It's terrible.

 

[monarch64]

The "little towns" with armed guards bring back memories of the Japanese interment camps the US created during the war. What happens if someone wants to leave? Will they be shot? Punished? Imprisoned? It seems such a slippery slope, inching ever closer in similarity to the Jewish imprisonment camps.

Chrono,I believe that telephone was using hyperbole to make the point that "a little town" where people would have no liberties and would be kept under guard would be a kind of concentration camp. Need I say that she did not, actually, endorse such a plan?

Deb/AGBF

Chrono, (and Deb,) I initially thought Telephone was being serious with that comment as well--but upon re-reading, I discovered she was using hyperbole to illustrate her point. Thanks for typing out a clarifying statement, Deb.

I cannot imagine becoming a person without a country. When the issues in Syria made the news months ago and I watched Charlie Rose's interview of the Syrian President, I knew this was going to go really, really bad.

One of my neighbors shared the following video on Facebook back in August, and it provides a firsthand account of what the refugees have had to go through just to get OUT of their country. No matter your stance on whether other countries, including the U.S., should offer asylum, this is a pretty stunning video.

http://m.bild.de/politik/ausland/zuwanderung/flucht-aus-der-hoelle-das-video-42352374.bildMobile.html?wt_ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iphone.buzz.app.de&wt_t=1440717194199#nogeo

 

[telephone89]

I didn't call anyone any names at all. If you are offended by what I wrote (aka, but what you wrote and I highlighted) then maybe you need to look in the mirror and find out why that bothers you.

ETA: http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/11/18/3723440/france-refugees/
Instead of shunning refugees, france is increasing their efforts.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Excellent.

The highest level of critical thinking--profanity and name calling.

Simply excellent.

 

[Jambalaya]

Exactly, Telephone. I named no names either and I said that I thought this thread contained some dim-witted fear and prejudice, not that anyone themselves was same. Fear and prejudice isn't an intelligent response. I am sure that there have been times in my life when I have absolutely been guilty of the same. We are all frightened sometimes and fear makes us respond in some primal ways. I think some of the responses here are knee-jerk reactions to the events in Paris, which is somewhat understandable given the horror of it all. But when we stop and think things through, that's when we realize how groundless many of are fears and prejudices are. I attacked no one personally myself but I was insulted and called whiny, which only made me laugh. You won't see me whining about being called whiny! Or demanding apologies.

I like the images you posted above, Telephone.

 

[Mayk]

HI:

Excellent.

The highest level of critical thinking--profanity and name calling.

Simply excellent.

+1. One thing I've never seen on PS profanity.

 

[telephone89]

Hah whoops. Didn't notice the F part. Let me edit.

But seriously, where is the name calling?

 

[telephone89]

Exactly, Telephone. I named no names either and I said that I thought this thread contained some dim-witted fear and prejudice, not that anyone themselves was same. Fear and prejudice isn't an intelligent response. I am sure that there have been times in my life when I have absolutely been guilty of the same. We are all frightened sometimes and fear makes us respond in some primal ways. I think some of the responses here are knee-jerk reactions to the events in Paris. When we stop and think things through, that's when we realize how groundless many of are fears and prejudices are. I attacked no one personally myself but I was insulted and called whiny, which only made me laugh. You won't see me whining about being called whiny!

I like the images you posted above, Telephone.

I love facebook. For the most part I have very pro-refugee people on there, and they find these sorts of things. I certainly can't take credit!

I think people don't like being shown their prejudice. The whole 'check your privilege' thing comes to mind. But you're totally right. Taking a step back and rationally (not emotionally!) looking at what is going on, there is no need for so much fear. I mean, c'mon, if Paris is celebrating and enjoying life, why should other (western) places be so afraid? Take their cue, and get on with life.

 

[Matata]

Exactly, Telephone. I named no names either and I said that I thought this thread contained some dim-witted fear and prejudice, not that anyone themselves was same. I was waiting for this. Predictable. Trying to convince us that people can be separated from their thoughts. When you call a thought dim-witted, you are calling the person who gave birth to the thought a dim-wit.

Fear and prejudice isn't an intelligent response. And neither is name calling. I am sure that there have been times in my life when I have absolutely been guilty of the same.

We are all frightened sometimes and fear makes us respond in some primal ways. But when we stop and think things through, that's when we realize how groundless many of are fears and prejudices are. I attacked no one personally myself but I was insulted and called whiny, Ahhh here is another irony. Read your words above -- you did not call anyone a dim wit, just their thoughts. I did not call you whiny, just your posts. Same thing right? which only made me laugh. You won't see me whining about being called whiny! ROFL That's precisely what you just did.

I like the images you posted above, Telephone.[/quote

Hey, all you dim-witted prejudicial ignorant fearful PS humans, let's have some pie!

Alj--if you're still reading this, do not give me any grief because it's not a cream pie.

 

[ksinger]

As someone who weathered the ATW wars of 2008, anyone care to take a bet as to how long it will be before this thread is edited, shut down, or removed entirely and we have to go back to talking about chickies and duckies and rainbows?