Moral ??--Do you tell someone their spouse is cheating?

[simplysplendid]

Irishgirl said it all for me.

Your sister is not rational and is selfish and should stop. She is irresponsible. I cannot understand how she can risk her family''s health and happiness. Honestly, I don''t believe in being in love with two people at the same time, there''s just no room for somebody else if you are totally in love with someone. I guess she''s in love with the one she''s having the affair with and on the other hand, has too many strings already attached with your BIL and finds it is messy to upset the family. If she can stop this affair perhaps it is best to just let sleeping dogs lie. If not, perhaps you can talk to one of your family members about it. Tough situation to be in. Alternatively, tell the other guy to bugger off? Don''t know.

 

[cara]

Just chiming in to echo octavia - in many states, a woman''s husband is the presumed father of her child and he is legally responsible for them regardless of actual paternity (if he does not question it at their birth.) For example, non-paternity is NOT a defense against paying child support if a man was married to the mother at the time of the kids birth and was raising them as his own until the divorce.

Logic being, it is best for society for these kids to have a father, and best for the kids to have the father that was raising them and that they have a relationship with already continue to be liable for their support, rather than whatever sperm donor impregnated their mother. From the father''s point of view, it might suck to pay to raise kids you aren''t biologically related to, but the time to question paternity OF YOUR WIFE''S CHILD is at their birth. Otherwise it is your kid!

However, I do not under any circumstances think you should question the kids paternity at this time. It really is not your can of worms to open and could have serious consequences for the father and his children and I hope you wouldn''t want to go there.

As for the rest, I am on the side of, tell your sister that under no circumstances do you want to know any more details of any affairs, that you are disgusted and appalled at her behavior and will not lie for her or cover for her. But...

I don''t think you should spill the beans to the husband or out her to your relatives. Not making excuses for her or covering for her, yes. Answering direct questions from her husband honestly, yes. But otherwise?

This is not your place. Imagine all the carnage that will come crashing down if you were to tell. Not really to your relationship with your sister - that sounds not very good already due to her character and your opinion of her actions - but the carnage done to her marriage and her husbands life and her kids lives. I don''t think you should tell unless you are fairly sure that the outcome would be better than the current situation. And you don''t know that it would be, as I don''t know that it would be. The kids *might* be better off with their parents married and their mom carrying on affairs (children of low-conflict troubled marriages are usually better off if their parents stay married.) The husband might actually prefer not to know - there are people out there that would rather NOT know their spouses are carrying on affairs, as they like their life as it is, but with the concrete knowledge of an actual affair would not be able to stay married.

Of course there are other possibilities, and the see-saw (tell/not tell) is not all the way to one side. But it is a sucky situation.

 

[miraclesrule]

((((((((hairgairl))))))<--------------bigarse cyber hug

On a side note, I just ordered some extensions and they are going to put them on clips tomorrow and I might just use them for my 30-yr reunion tomorrow night. I don't know...feels false, but knowing me, I will tell everyone how cool my extensions are, if I get the nerve to use them.

I am so sorry you have had to bear this burden for so long. It's toxic energy that is so unfair. I want to tell you a little story about a good man friend of mine that I dated for a few months after his 15 yr marriage broke up because his wife had been cheating on him with a guy who worked with them. Even when he confronted her with it, she lied. Then he downloaded some email interception software and installed it. He caught her red-handed when he saw an email that she sent to her lover telling him they would have to lay low because her husband was onto to her again. When he confronted his wife with the email, she had to nerve to start screaming at him for invading her privacy and tried to project all her guilt onto him. She even blamed him for his filing for divorce and breaking up the family. His kids still don't know what his mother did to break up the marriage and try to make him feel guilty about not having enough money for certain items because he has to pay for his own apartment. He is such a good man and a good husband. I am so happy to have learned last week that he remarrying. His relationships after his marriage were marred by his ex's ability to manipulate him emotionally into feeling guilty. Some people have no shame. Some people still won't accept accountability for their actions or the consequences. It's troubling, mysterious to me, and quite pitiful.

I don't know that I would outright tell her husband, because as some have said...he may shoot the messenger, he may be very angry at you when he discovers that you have known for so long but didn't tell him. There is one thing that I fear most, and that is being made to feel a fool. Someone playing me for so long. He will feel emasculated and hurt and it will really scar him. But in my opinion, these men deserve better. The children deserve better.

I respectfully disagree with those who say that you should not breech confidentiality. You are not bound by a professional code of ethics as a priest or lawyer or reporter. You are a relative of the children, and by extension a relative to her husband. If this were a crime, or a tort...and I really wish it was (I mean it IS a breach of contract)...then would you just let the victim fend for themselves. It's absurd to think they have an open marriage. Swingers and couples who engage in open marriage activities practice safe sex. Clearly she is not.

I also had a former friend who couldn't get pregnant by her boyfriend, so she had an affair, got pregnant and passed the baby off as her BF's. At one point, I suspected he knew but didn't care because it was just to get her pregnant, but then she put the lover's name on the birth certificate and continued the affair. She eventually broke up with her BF, it broke up the lover's marriage and they moved in together. She told her BF that the child wasn't his when she was nearly 5 years old. The Grandparents, his parents had cared for that child those five years and so had her BF and her daughter only knew her BF as Daddy. My former friend allowed him to still remain in her child's life, which he did. Within one year she couldn't stand living with her new single lover and tossed him out and begged her BF to come back. Thank gawd he said NO. He still acts as a father to the child, but he has washed his hands of my former friend. I couldn't talk to her after I learned what she had done. In fact, I told her that I was shocked, dismayed and that for her sake, she better hope her BF nevers see the birth certificate but I would never run the risk of my daughter hating me when she was older because she didn't trust my character. What in the world in worth losing or risking your child's respect and love....and what is worth not setting a good example for your child of integrity and character and principles and values? I just don't get it. No amount of good sex is worth that to me!!

I had to dump a guy that I thought was my lifetime love when I discovered that he was cheating on his LIVE IN girlfriend that he neglected to mention to me when we were on vacation. It was a LD relationship and I became suspicious at the holidays for various reasons and so I investigated and discovered it myself and confronted him. He had the opportunity to tell me the truth, but he was a coward. I don't what made him think, especially after knowing me professionally for 10 years, that I would silently be the other woman. Well, he learned real quick that I wasn't that kind of woman. My heart stills bleed when I think about him....no wait...when I think of the fantasy of what I thought he was.

Follow your gut, follow your heart...be just and fear not. I know that you will do the right thing. I can give you examples and examples of cheating spouses who have long term affairs behind their spouses back...usually ones who are being supported by the spouse financially. I know one man who is married to a very wealthy wife (from an extremely wealthy family) who has been having an affair with his assistant for years. The assistant stays for the money, he acts like a jealous boyfriend, and his wife knows nothing. It's twisted...and insane.

One thing I will never understand is why all the cheaters seem to hook up with faithful partners. Why can't all the cheaters just hook up with cheaters and all the faithful people hook up with faithful people?

Wow, that was a long rant!! Can you tell that I am passionate about this topic?

 

[elle_chris]

Diamondfan- i believe your sentence "I think, no offense, this is not 6th grade and a pinky swear to keep a secret. There are MULTIPLE serious issues at the heart of this." was directed at me. If you had read the rest of what i wrote it's not just about "confidentiality" but about it not being my place to get involved in someone elses relationship.

Hairgirl- I understand what you mean by her making it your business by constantly telling you about it. Have you told her that you don't want to hear it and yet she still goes on?

I understand the multiple issues involved here but i still wouldn't do it. I wouldn't feel comfortable telling anyone something that might cause more harm than good. No one knows what his reaction is going to be. I just wouldn't chance it.

 

[FrekeChild]

You realize, that NOT saying something could cause more harm than good too right?

There are NO constants here, except that she is cheating, has been cheating on him, and that he doesn''t know about it.

We don''t know anything else for sure. I hate to be so cliche, but life is an unknown.

 

[hairgirl95]

Awwww miraclesrule--big hugs right back at ya! I always love reading your posts. You have a great karmic energy about you.

First off---I think the clip in extensions would look cute!! So easy to put in, and it really changes your whole look in about 15 minutes. And its not permanent! Good luck at your reunion--I am sure you will have a blast!

So, I showed my hubs this post. He couldn''t believe all the replies!! I told him us PS''ers were a cool bunch and we rally around each other. May use that same ammo if I come here looking for advice on jewelry again--I''ll tell him if the PS''ers say its good, then we MUST do it!!

Okay, back to the topic at hand. When my DH and I discussed this after he read the posts, he said that if my BIL is to find out, it really cannot be from me. He said if we have no other alternatives, he will talk with him. Its really my husband who has reached the breaking point faster than I have. I am so lucky to have a husband who is so against infidelity and all the crap that comes with it. In some ways, it makes me feel even more comfortable with my husband. I know that sounds cheesy, but hey, gotta find a silver lining somewhere!

I am trying to go back in my mind and document everything she has said, so that my BIL can be presented with the most factual evidence. I want him to make the decision to stay or go based on the truth, not rumors or whatever lies my sister will try to spin. I am still working out the details on how to tell him, but I think at this point it will either be my husband or a friend of my BIL that tells him. I agree with the it should come from a man stance--I would feel like my balls had been chopped off if I were a man and my sis in law told me the story he is gonna have to hear. UUGH.

diamondfan---lmao at the pinky swear comment. That was hilarious!!!

Princess--yeah, doesn''t bringing the girls over to the BF''s house just make you want to vomit?! I about slapped her through the phone when she told me that. I love those 2 girls like they are my own children. They spend the night with me at least once a month and I love having them around. It makes me sad to see them neglected so that their mother can run off to get a "quickie" from one of her pieces of meat. Gee, can you all tell that I am getting madder at her the more I type? She is such an idiot. Can''t believe I used to look up to her so much when we were growing up. She''s turned out to be a real disappointment.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 8/8/2008 7:35:30 PM
Author: cara
in many states, a woman''s husband is the presumed father of her child and he is legally responsible for them regardless of actual paternity (if he does not question it at their birth.) For example, non-paternity is NOT a defense against paying child support if a man was married to the mother at the time of the kids birth and was raising them as his own until the divorce.

Not trying to start a flame-war, but I just think this is SO preposterous and disgusting...and it is one of the many reasons that I am such a huge supporter of men''s/father''s rights!

 

[luckystar112]

style="WIDTH: 99%; HEIGHT: 225px">Date: 8/8/2008 7:43:35 PM
Author: miraclesrule

I also had a former friend who couldn''t get pregnant by her boyfriend, so she had an affair, got pregnant and passed the baby off as her BF''s. At one point, I suspected he knew but didn''t care because it was just to get her pregnant, but then she put the lover''s name on the birth certificate and continued the affair. She eventually broke up with her BF, it broke up the lover''s marriage and they moved in together. She told her BF that the child wasn''t his when she was nearly 5 years old. The Grandparents, his parents had cared for that child those five years and so had her BF and her daughter only knew her BF as Daddy. My former friend allowed him to still remain in her child''s life, which he did. Within one year she couldn''t stand living with her new single lover and tossed him out and begged her BF to come back. Thank gawd he said NO. He still acts as a father to the child, but he has washed his hands of my former friend. I couldn''t talk to her after I learned what she had done. In fact, I told her that I was shocked, dismayed and that for her sake, she better hope her BF nevers see the birth certificate but I would never run the risk of my daughter hating me when she was older because she didn''t trust my character. What in the world in worth losing or risking your child''s respect and love....and what is worth not setting a good example for your child of integrity and character and principles and values? I just don''t get it. No amount of good sex is worth that to me!!

I know lots of stories like this as well. If I ever have any sons I''m going to advise them to get paternity tests when they have kids. I don''t care if they''ve been married for ten years beforehand. Stories like this happen far too often.

 

[purrfectpear]

Obviously we''d all like to burn this woman at the stake for being a lying cheating adultress, but please explain to me how we manage that without hurting the children?

Please explain how telling will in any way improve those girls lives?

Sexually transmitted diseases are just that, SEXUALLY transmitted. Someone said something about the kids being exposed...to what? They aren''t going to have sex with either parents. You cannot catch aids from sharing a sip of pepsi. This is a straw man argument to try to "protect" the kids and ignore the real damage to their lives when they are in the middle of angry parents fighting it out

Sure that might not be their bio dad, but do you think THEY would care? They love this man, he''s been there since the day they were born. They call him daddy and in every way he has been their dad. Which of you actually believes it will improve their lives to doubt that now? Really?

Seen any Jerry Springer? Have you EVER seen a kid say "Wow, it''s great that guy that I lived with and called dad isn''t really my dad. Bring on the stranger, I''m dying to know him, after all he''s my bio pop"

It''s about heartache folks, not about morality or ethics. Let this house of cards fall on it''s own merit and everyone will have to pick up the pieces as best they can. Don''t be the CAUSE of the collapse. Yes, the one telling will be the cause, because those kids still have a home - it''s a secret until someone spills it all out in it''s ugliness. There is no way these girls will come out of this better off. NONE.

 

[miraclesrule]

Date: 8/8/2008 8:15:46 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Obviously we'd all like to burn this woman at the stake for being a lying cheating adultress, but please explain to me how we manage that without hurting the children?

Please explain how telling will in any way improve those girls lives?

Sexually transmitted diseases are just that, SEXUALLY transmitted. Someone said something about the kids being exposed...to what? They aren't going to have sex with either parents. You cannot catch aids from sharing a sip of pepsi. This is a straw man argument to try to 'protect' the kids and ignore the real damage to their lives when they are in the middle of angry parents fighting it out

Sure that might not be their bio dad, but do you think THEY would care? They love this man, he's been there since the day they were born. They call him daddy and in every way he has been their dad. Which of you actually believes it will improve their lives to doubt that now? Really?

Seen any Jerry Springer? Have you EVER seen a kid say 'Wow, it's great that guy that I lived with and called dad isn't really my dad. Bring on the stranger, I'm dying to know him, after all he's my bio pop'

It's about heartache folks, not about morality or ethics. Let this house of cards fall on it's own merit and everyone will have to pick up the pieces as best they can. Don't be the CAUSE of the collapse. Yes, the one telling will be the cause, because those kids still have a home - it's a secret until someone spills it all out in it's ugliness. There is no way these girls will come out of this better off. NONE.

How can predict this purrfectpear? Just because two parties divorce doesn't mean the kids will suffer. It is about heartache, because it is about love! The children aren't asked to "love" someone they don't know. Nor would they be expected to stop loving someone whom they have formed a bond with. Their life may be enriched by truth, honesty and lessons about life. The girls probably already know something is not right and the children are now being expected to creat an alternate reality so they don't become affected by the mother's behavior and her exposing her children to her manipulative and lying persona. The marriage may collapse, but the children's lives won't necessarily collapse. It may be a very healthy rebirth. Do you think that shielding the children for longer before they discover the truth won't have even more impact on their mental health? It's clear that the children have supportive extended family that are willing to cushion the children's fall and help carry them through whatever the future brings.

Also, let me be clear. I don't want to burn anything at the stake, unless it's rare beef...or chicken...or edible. It's called accountability for ones own actions and the consequences of behavior. I am not condeming anyone to death. What hairgirl's sister decides to do once she is revealed for who she is will be the deciding factor. Maybe she gets help, maybe she tries to make it work...maybe she chooses to deny it and project guilt and act like the victim. Perhaps this "intervention" will create a miracle. I hope it does...for her, for her husband, for the children and for her extended family, such as hairgirl.

hairgirl, I admire your husband's courage and character. You have a good man.

 

[luckystar112]

I wonder if it were the other way around....if hairgirl''s brother was cheating on his wife and leading a double-life, if the opinions would be the same. Granted, the kid situation makes it a bit of a toughy. I''m with Freke though, I would have told by now...somehow. I''m glad that HG''s DH or a friend may tell. IMO I think that the consequences of not telling far outweigh protecting the children''s emotions. And I would think that it would be better to get it all out in the open now when they are young than years from now. JMO of course.

 

[luckystar112]

I also wanted to say that I have a good friend who has experienced similiar circumstances. Her mother would bring her to her "friend''s" house, the friend of course being her mother''s lover. She was around 5 or 6 at the time and she said that she knew all along what her mother was doing, even at that young. She has never forgiven her mother for this. When her parents ultimately did get divorced, she opted to live with her dad. She''s married now with two kids and doesn''t really have a relationship with her mom at all.

 

[MoonWater]

I think if people really care about protecting these two girls they would want the husband to know ASAP. Knowing that she is bringing the girls around her boyfriend is absolutely sickening to me. I can not imagine being married with two children and having my husband take MY kids to his girlfriend's house. I just want to vomit. The man absolutely has a right to know what this woman is doing to him and his children.

As far as it not being her place, well, it wasn't the sister's place to involve her in her marriage. So it's too late for that now. Tell him, tell him, tell him. You should feel absolutely NO guilt. None of this is your fault.

 

[somethingshiny]

Hairgirl~ Sorry, I have not read all the posts, but I just wanted to say I completely UNDERSTAND!!

My cousin (who used to be one of my closest friends/family members) has been cheating on her DH since before they were married. They have 3 little girls together and my cousin could actually go sleep with her "boyfriend" and come home and tuck her babies in bed. She told me during a "confessional" conversation. I tried helping her to get back on track for 2-3 years. I knew she didn''t want to hurt her family and I hoped she would straighten up and fly right. HOWEVER, I finally couldn''t take it anymore. I didn''t want to destroy all their lives by SAYING what she did, but I knew I couldn''t be around her anymore (or even talk on the phone.) As it turned out, her DH began wondering why we weren''t talking everyday. I did not tell him what was going on, I just said she and I had less and less in common. HE figured it out and they are now divorcing.

So basically, don''t underestimate her husband.

Also, sometimes people completely ignore what''s right in front of their face for a reason. He may be willing to live with these kind of actions.

 

[hairgirl95]

Date: 8/8/2008 8:33:16 PM
Author: luckystar112
I wonder if it were the other way around....if hairgirl''s brother was cheating on his wife and leading a double-life, if the opinions would be the same. Granted, the kid situation makes it a bit of a toughy. I''m with Freke though, I would have told by now...somehow. I''m glad that HG''s DH or a friend may tell. IMO I think that the consequences of not telling far outweigh protecting the children''s emotions. And I would think that it would be better to get it all out in the open now when they are young than years from now. JMO of course.

I thought the same thing about what if the sexes were changed. What if it was my Brother cheating on my Sis in law? I know for sure I would have told my sis in law as soon as I found out. I think thats part of why I feel so bad--I feel like a real hypocrite. Why should I think that one scenario deserves the truth and the other doesn''t? I guess thats a great philosophical question for myself.

Shiny--girl, I bet you and I could compare serious notes on these 2 relationships. Several things you posted were like listening to shenanigans my sister tells me about her and her boyfriend. Its so scary isn''t it! I don''t blame you for severing ties---I am about there myself!

 

[Miranda]

Yeah, I have to wonder if your BIL has an idea this is going on and is just ignoring it. *sigh* It is such a horrible situation. I''m so sorry this burden has been placed on you. I don''t have any advice to offer as I feel that only you know what is right in this situation. (((hugs)))

 

[Isabelle]

Hairgirl, this is a very serious situation and you should not do or say anything until you have sought the advice of a professional. My first step would be to talk to a counselor about the situation, preferably one who deals with infidelity and sex addiction. I would then talk directly to your parents and inform them of what you know. Your sister sounds like she is addicted to infidelity in a sense. She might have picked up the STD from another person, not the regular boyfriend, which means she could be engaging in very bad behavior with multiple men. The ripple effect on your entire family if you broadcast this information to her husband could be devastating. I believe that with the help and guidance of an expert you and your parents ought to confront your sister with her behavior and urge her to seek professional help immediately to combat this horrific problem she has. If she gets the help she desperately needs, she will eventually be able to deal with whether or not it makes sense to disclose her behavior to her husband.

Secondly, you owe it to yourself to tell your sister in explicit terms that you will not under any circumstances be a confidant to her regarding infidelities ever again. If she ever attempts to speak to you about her affairs, I would hang up the phone or leave if she is conveying information in person. If your sister refuses to get help, after she knows that you and your parents are united in this issue, then you can collectively determine what is in the best interest of THE CHILDREN. And again, this is best decided with the help of a professional who deals in these issues. Whatever steps are taken or not taken with respect to informing the BIL, these are best done under the guidance of someone who works in the field and who will be aware of how all this could affect her children. The children are the most important people in this whole thing.

If I were you, I would view your sister''s affairs the same as you would an alcoholic. She is an addict, and possibly has a narcissistic personality disorder as well, and she can''t control herself without help. You and your parents must do an intervention of sorts, with the help of a professional, (I can''t stress that enough). Do not under any circumstances go to your BIL on your own.

 

[ahappygirl]

What a horrible position to be in. I think her behavior could not be more selfish. If my sister did such a thing I would seriously testify in court against her if needed. No second thoughts. And I would sleep like a baby.

I would tell him right away. He has been exposed to at least one STD and treated for it without his knowledge. Are you kidding me?! From what you''ve stated she has zero desire to stop, zero respect for her husband, children, sister, and everyone else she''s involved by her "confessions." He can ignore the info or not.

Tell him. Anonomously or not. I also would give facts, dates, names and anything else he wanted to know, and absolutely refuse to engage in this topic further with your sister. I would hand him the name of a killer attorney. Give her a "you tell him or I will" heads up or not... I wouldn''t unless you previously agreed not to say anything. I also agree HE is the children''s DAD, regardless of biology, and it would devastate the girls not to feel otherwise. The truth usually has a way of coming out eventually and they really should probably cross one bridge at a time here.

You have to do what you feel is right for you, what you can live with, etc. It sounds like your husband would be a huge support for you, thank God. I am so sorry you are in this situation.

 

[diamondfan]

Elle chris, honestly it was not directed at anyone, and not you in specific as I was only saying to anyone who said, well she told you and you should not breach her confidence, hey, think of the big picture here. She is not bound to keep this confidential and as it is not only despicable but potentially harmful health wise, confidentiality is NOT the most important facet of things.

Eeuww, I think it is GROSS that she brings her kids around her sex partner. And trust me kids are not stupid, once they are older I guarantee you one of them will figure out something is going on.


If she is IN LOVE with the boyfriend, why not just leave her hubby? I wonder if boy toy is not as financially successful as hubby is?

As for hubby not being too bright and not really getting what is up, well, people see and hear what they want to most of the time and I doubt most guys are ready to think their wife is cheating and has been for years. That would be pretty tough to take.

 

[D2B]

Just a couple of thoughts

- silence is consent here. telling or not telling both are equal as direct and consequental actions. doing nothing, is doing something, and that is condoning it and supporting it implicitly. In fact I would not be surprised if your sister later turns on you and others and says " oh but you all knew about it - you were all OK with it, if you all thougth it was so bad, why didnt you say anything "

- how many years of this poor mans life are to be continued to be wasted with her (assuming he doesnt know and will mind), if he finds out know and wants to break up he still has a chance to find a nice woman and start his life again

- the kids know, or will definately know when they get older - no ifs or buts about it.

- the childrens saftey also concerns me, if she is starting to take them to lovers places, she is not being rational, what potential dangers could be children be exposed to while they "wait" for her - drugs lying around, ****, unsavoury friends, I mean seriously who knows, the lovers arnt going to be upstanding citizens sleeping with a mum while the children are next door.

-What rolemodeling will this relationship provide to this children, they will not learn how to be in a mature loving relationship, they will learn deceit (she is allready talking them to lovers places) and not self worth or true love and caring. Everythng they will observe in that household will be part of their make up and rolemodelling about how to conduct relationships as adults, it will impact them negatively.

Tell him, anonomously, but just tell him.
JMHO

oh, my parents were divorced when I was young, and really, as long as adults are mature about it, it is better to live happily with divorced parents, than observe deceit and lying and unhappy, unfulllfilled lives of parents in a married relationship.

good luck

d2b

 

[D2B]

Just had another thought.

If she is taking her children to her lovers house, she is making them accomplices and asking them to go along with her "stories" and teaching them directly or indirectly to lie to their daddy. Not good!!!!

If the children accidently spill the beans, and the situation errupts, the poor children will blame themselves for their parents split or arguments, when the real blame lies with the mother for using her children as accomplices and cover. The children should not be drawn into this, they will have to decide who to lie to, whom not to tell things etc, I have seen this happen with a "friend" and the child is messed up emotionally and you can see the confusion in her eyes.

Get the children out of this situation. not healthy, nor is it their burden to keep quiet so mummy can visit her friend.

d2b

 

[hairgirl95]

Hey diamondfan and D2B--

Your last 2 posts really hit home with me. Diamond, I have asked her so many times why she doesn''t just leave her husband if she really is so *in love* with this boyfriend of hers. You pretty much asked the answer to that question--it really is all about the financial aspect. Her husband is a very successful man. He owns his own contracting/remodeling business, and fortunately, business hasn''t declined for him even with the economy being in the crapper. He works really hard, and keeps her financially comfortable. She leases a new car every 2 years, has lived in 2 brand new homes they have custom built, and all of this allows her to work part time at a non stressful and fun job. The kids go to daycare full time. It leaves her plenty of time to "wander the city" to partake in her extracurricular activities. I agree diamond, ewwwww is so right at the kids being exposed to this creep.

D2B--your post really smacked me in the face with the silence is consent comment. You are so right, and it really hit me hard. By me standing by not saying anything, it is in a sense allowing this to continue. Your insight really helped me sort out my feelings with all this. Yes, the kids HAVE to know something is going on. Her oldest daughter calls him by a fake name (calls him Aaron, but is interpreted as ERIN to everyone) his real name is Tony. She can describe him if you ask her about "Aaron/Erin". What makes me really sick is that when she was preggo with daughter #2, she took the oldest daughter to Tony''s house and had sex with him, WHILE PREGNANT, with her oldest daughter in the other room.

There is no positive role-modeling going on for either of the girls. I am afraid they will grow up and think that giving out sex so freely and promiscuity is the norm. They are young still (4 and almost 2) but you can see the tendencies coming out already. The 4 year old calls herself fat (she might weigh 35 lbs) and gravitates towards what I call skanky little girl clothes. She likes to dress in what I think is a little inappropriate for a 4 year old--off the shoulder shirts, short skirts, and even mentioned getting a THONG. WTF??!! I hope and pray they don''t make a thong for kids that little. Thats just gross. I worry about unsavory freaks hanging out with this idiot Tony and worry if they are safe people to be around my little nieces. The what-ifs are what keep me up at night. I find myself having a panic attack when I think about that.

After reading what everyone has written here, weighing the pros and cons, and spending most of the evening discussing this with my husband, we have decided we are certainly going to tell my BIL. We are trying to get ahold of one of BIL''s old highschool buddies (All of us except my hubs went to the same HS) that we know my BIL keeps in touch with. He works with one of the guys who knows about this crappy situation. I am hoping that he will talk to my BIL. If not, then my husband is going to. I know the fall out may be really bad, but I am taking the approach of if this keeps my nieces from having severe psychological trauma later in life, then its all worth it. The girls and my BIL are my main concern. I would do anything for them. I don''t know how my parents are going to react to this, but I figure that if they are mad and upset with me at first, they will eventually get over it. And as for my sister, well, she needs help. If my family is really so petty as to condemn and disown me over this, then I guess its their loss. I am a very strong and independent person. I can bear the brunt of the initial fallout. If not, my therapist just may be seeing me more than once a month!!

Thank you for all the great advice and all your opinions. D2B, THANK YOU for this last post you wrote. Its exactly what I needed to hear.

 

[FrekeChild]

Kudos for taking the time to think it through, and being aware of the consequences. I think it''s going to be very very hard for a while, but I really do think that the girls will be better off in the long run. I''ve seen first hand what bad marriage, lies and deceit can do to kids, and how it affects them later in life.

I hope that you keep us informed as to what happens. Such a difficult situation that you''ve been put in...

 

[arjunajane]

There is a phrase us Aussies would use at this point - she is taking the piss.
Out of her husband, her children for bringing them along while she *visits*, and out of you Hairgirl.

Sorry for my frankness.
As I said earlier, I am very sorry for the difficult situation you are in. There has been some good advice here and I applaud your DH for stepping up to the plate.

I wish you luck in this sad situation.
(hugs)

 

[miraclesrule]

Date: 8/8/2008 11:02:26 PM
Author: Isabelle
Hairgirl, this is a very serious situation and you should not do or say anything until you have sought the advice of a professional. My first step would be to talk to a counselor about the situation, preferably one who deals with infidelity and sex addiction. I would then talk directly to your parents and inform them of what you know. Your sister sounds like she is addicted to infidelity in a sense. She might have picked up the STD from another person, not the regular boyfriend, which means she could be engaging in very bad behavior with multiple men. The ripple effect on your entire family if you broadcast this information to her husband could be devastating. I believe that with the help and guidance of an expert you and your parents ought to confront your sister with her behavior and urge her to seek professional help immediately to combat this horrific problem she has. If she gets the help she desperately needs, she will eventually be able to deal with whether or not it makes sense to disclose her behavior to her husband.

Secondly, you owe it to yourself to tell your sister in explicit terms that you will not under any circumstances be a confidant to her regarding infidelities ever again. If she ever attempts to speak to you about her affairs, I would hang up the phone or leave if she is conveying information in person. If your sister refuses to get help, after she knows that you and your parents are united in this issue, then you can collectively determine what is in the best interest of THE CHILDREN. And again, this is best decided with the help of a professional who deals in these issues. Whatever steps are taken or not taken with respect to informing the BIL, these are best done under the guidance of someone who works in the field and who will be aware of how all this could affect her children. The children are the most important people in this whole thing.

If I were you, I would view your sister''s affairs the same as you would an alcoholic. She is an addict, and possibly has a narcissistic personality disorder as well, and she can''t control herself without help. You and your parents must do an intervention of sorts, with the help of a professional, (I can''t stress that enough). Do not under any circumstances go to your BIL on your own.

Isabelle, I have tried very hard not to respond to your post, but I can''t help myself. I think it is an insult to mature adults to call the described behavior an addiction that should be treated like a addict. There is nothing that indicates she is merely a sex addict. By assigning a diagnostic category to it, it is almost as though it somehow excuses her behavior. All addicts choose to be addicts unless the properties of a chemical is physically addicting, not merely psysiologically addictove pr psychologically addicting.

I just feel, personally, that we are all capable of free will and that she is engaging in activity that she knows is wrong. If she didn''t know it was wrong, she wouldn''t be hiding it. Most alcoholics don''t hide it...they get drunk and it''s obvious. Sometimes they attempt to hide it, but it''s usually clear as they can''t and don''t hide it.

I think that what surfgirls sister is doing cannot possibly considered a result of an addiction worthy of that type of intervention. Lyingg and cheating is a compulsive personality disorder, but it is a conscious choice. Applying a label gives them an excuse for their behavior and they can claim it can''t be helped. That''s a crock of BS. So now every deceptive cheater gets thier own DSMIII diagnostic category. I don''t think so. If you breach a contract in a tort, it wouldn''t fly that your lying deception was a result of a medically recognized disease therefore you can''t be responsible and you''re a victim of this horrible disease. That is rubbish, again, in my opinion.

 

[MoonWater]

hairgirl, I''m wishing you lots of luck. After reading your latest post I am extremely glad you have decided to tell him. I just can not believe she went with this guy while pregnant and brought her child along. I just...I have no words.

 

[purrfectpear]

You said you were going to tell a friend of BIL''s and have him tell him? I''m sorry but if you are going to inform the BIL I don''t really think it''s appropriate to involve ANOTHER person. You and your husband are the ones with the knowledge, at least have the courage not to spread it beyond yourselves and your BIL. I think your husband should have the conversation, or do it anonymously. I also agree that it''s a good idea to talk this over with a trained family therapist prior to going ahead.

 

[diamondfan]

Hairgirl, it just keeps getting worse.

bringing your child to your lover''s house is bad enough but to have sex with another man while pregnant is gross. Unless it was the boyfrrend''s baby, that only makes it slightly less gross...married people are intimate when pregnant but still, there is a layer to this that is beyond vile to me, I have no words.

She is using her hubby for the financial gain and he gives her a lifestyle that allows her to make a chump of him. She is morally reprehensible, truly. She is, to me, just a horrible person, to be sleeping with other men for years, involving her kids, getting her husband to take meds for an STD through trickery, staying with him because he has money while making a fool of him, not even knowing who is the father of her children...

I hate to say this but she is not a good person. It gets worse and worse.

 

[diamondfan]

I also think that while a divorce is never a great thing, your brother in law deserves to be able to be in a healthy partnership.

And the girls deserve a mom who puts them first and not her own sexual needs, and is not exposing them to terrible things, and is not showing them a mockery of being in a relationship.

Again, I do not ever think divorce is great, but she is not at all exhibiting good mothering and she is putting her children at risk in so many ways. There could also be violence at some point in this whole mess and I think they would be better in the long run in a stable home. I think your sister needs a lot of psychological help from a very well trained clinician.

 

[princesss]

Okay, I do agree with purrfectpear that if you''re going to go ahead and tell him (which I do believe is the right choice, especially with the girls being brought into their mother''s bad behaviour) I would suggest doing it yourself. There is no use in spreading this around even more, and making this poor man''s humiliation even more public that your sister has already made it.

I do think it''s great that you and your husband know of the potential consequences are are doing this anyway. Please know that while it will be hard, there are a lot of people out here who respect that you are trying to do the best thing you can.