men, budgets and rings

[Circe]

You know, in a book by one of my favorite authors (Marge Piercy) the main character is going through a divorce, and as her husband whines and whines about the settlement, her attorney muses: "You know, it''s fascinating. It''s like he really believes that you earned different sorts of money, like you earned red money and he earned green money. You spent yours, and now he ought to be able to keep his ...." Luckily, as her lawyer observes, that is not how marriage *works.*

If you (specific "you") earn $1500 dollars and your (collective "your") rent is $1500 dollars and he earns more than twice what you do ... why the hell are you paying "your" (re: HIS) rent? What the hell is this man contributing to your household?

That''s completely aside from how in marriage, all these things should be shared. Just, logistically speaking: this guy has you to pay his rent and play the maid while he ... what, buys luxury items and calls it a day? Horse manure and poppycock, as Harry S. Truman would have said.

If he doesn''t make you feel loved and doesn''t in any way shape or form contribute to your quality of life, why are you with him? You''d get more fulfillment out of a good roommate to pay half the bills ....

 

[swingirl]

Date: 12/15/2009 11:06:59 AM
Author: Victorya
and how many of you would turn down a proposal from a guy who you loved, and who adored you, just because he did not have a ring at the moment, especially, if he was promising you a lovely ring, after he landed a job, and you knew that he would be getting a GOOD job.

Me! Me! Red flag.
If he adored you so much why didn''t HE get the second job! Lots of guys come on PS willing to put the ering on a credit car or only have $500 to spend. He had money to spend on taking your friends out to dinner and paid for expensive champagne to impress them but not money for a ring? And you bought it? Sorry, I think there were some big red flags here.

What exactly do you love about someone who has lied about his intentions to buy you a ring? You know he never really wanted to get you a ring and that''s why you don''t have one. But it''s not really about the ring, it''s about control.

 

[Yimmers]

IMO...
Getting a second job doesn''t help stop his abusive behavior.
Getting a second job doesn''t stop you from being his personal maid.
Getting a second job doesn''t stop him from being a controlling #$@%-hole.
Getting a second job doesn''t stop the passive aggressive response to his abuse behavior and into therapy and out of this relationship.

Getting a second job isn''t going to find you the happiness you deserve.

You''ve been advised by many that this does not appear to be healthy relationship and to seek a divorce or therapy. Ultimately, what you do is your decision. I wish you the best luck and happiness.

 

[ms.halo]

In my experience men don''t change. So if his behavior toward this issue is the type of behavior you can deal with for the rest of your life, fine. Personally, I''d be grateful for this red flag at this point in your relationship--before you have children. I''d take this opportunity to enroll yourselves in marriage counseling to see if he can begin to approach your relationship as a 50/50 partnership (where each of you has equal rights).

To clarify, his refusal to purchase a diamond ring for you is not the issue here. It''s his broken promise and the other controlling behavior. I know at least part of you must feel the same way, or you wouldn''t be posting about it. Good luck!

 

[Patchee]

I only read your first post but ..


Do you have a joint bank account?

If yes - GO GET YOURSELF Bling if no - then I think you need to find out just where your husbands respect level is for you. Sorry to say it but WTF - who does that?

ETA - I just read a few more posts and I am sorry Victorya that you are married to this guy. Call me every name in the book shall you choose and other posters rip me a new one (I am right here)

but obviously he wants you to have NOTHING... and God forbid if you ask your slapped with words like Materialistic. Sounds like a real puke of a man to me.

He figures he makes the $$ he will spend the $$ the way he wants to. In the meantime he throws out the "save for the children" bullcrap to you or the diamonds are brainwashing.. Um, to whom? A moron like him? So he puts the "trip" on you BRAINWASHING YOU HOW HE WANTS YOU TO BE ... some husband.

What next? If you get a diamond on his dollar does that also get you a slap in the face someday?

I just think you deserve more and I don't even know the guy ....

 

[nkarma]

Date: 12/13/2009 6:13:11 PM
Author: tradergirl
I'm sure this won't set well with the hopeless romantics on this board but my husband is also of the 'jewelry is a waste of money' mindset.

But it doesn't matter to me. I decided early on that I would never commingle money with him and never have. We've had completely separate bank accounts and finances for the entire 25 years we've been married. He buys what he wants and I buy what I want. Oh sure, he complains mightily but I don't care if he likes it or not. I've bought a lot of jewelry in the past two years, all with my own money. I make a lot more than he does, which I guess does not hurt either.

I'm sure this sounds unsentimental but we're still married and rarely have the money conflicts that cause a lot of people to break up. I think the best marriages are limited partnerships with both parties very much separate entities. Just my opinion.

So, to the OP, were I to find myself in your position, I'd just go out and buy my own jewelry.

PS: to Purrfect Pear: I wish you and I could get together and have a drink. We sound like two peas in a pod.

Can I ask how you do this? Getting married in the summer and have been considering all the different ways to do money. Do you have a joint savings??? How do you save for kid's college (if you have any), vacations, retirement, homes, etc... Do you each put a certain amount in or is it related to how much you make...like a percentage?

I think we are going to do very small separate accounts for spending money but rest will be joint. I just don't see the point in two people having separate accounts because most of what I do with my money that does not pay the bills goes to big things like vacations, homes, savings, and retirement which we will both need/use. Thanks!

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Nkarma,

I can't speak for Tradergirl. But my husband and I have a healthy joint savings account (for utility bills, joint expenses, etc), but also our own separate accounts for when we want to buy each other presents. We are very open with each other about how much we spend on what, and the point of separate accounts isn't to hide our spending habits from each other. It's just a preference thing since we're newly weds and still like the idea of having personal spending money that we can spend on ourselves (or others) without guilt or asking permission.

And down the line, I can see it coming in handy if I want to plan a big surprise!

 

[LuvThatBling]

I''ve never had my own accounts, except for business accounts, but the couples who separate their finances most successfully seem to have completely separate accounts and view big transactions like a partnership would, i.e., Wanna buy a house? Can you come up with your 1/2 of the down payment? Or they agree to each save $X per month for a certain goal, such as retirement, vacation, etc.

My parents have done this fairly successfully for several years. If you don''t have compatible ideas on how to spend money or just feel more comfortable with your finances separated, I think it''s a good idea. I know some people think it''s ''unromantic,'' but I don''t view it that way. Nothing is more unromantic to me than fighting over trivial issues (not that money is always a trivial issue...but the amount of time we spend fighting/worrying over it sometimes is.)

As far as the OP goes, I find myself wishing this person was a troll because the situation described is not a very happy one.

I do have a suggestion for commanding his notice (although I admit that your life will likely be very unpleasant while/if you sort this out): set up your own bank account and begin having your paycheck deposited there ASAP. That way you can give him ''odd amounts of cash whenever you think he needs it''

Heh. Seriously, I would set up my own account, and then I will begin negotiating a new financial arrangement. I would also figure out where he''s keeping your money (retirement/savings/stock/checking accounts) and make copies of the statements. I know there are controlling people who aren''t sneaky, but my mind automatically becomes suspicious when someone feels they are entitled to a disportionate amount of resources.

 

[marym]

Okay, I usually just lurk, but in this case I feel I have to say something.

First of all, I don''t think this thread really belongs on the SMTR forum.

Second of all, I really don''t think it''s anyone''s place to be telling this woman to leave her husband. It sounds like there are some really big issues, but she did marry the guy. For better or for worse, she took those vows. It really makes me mad when people just throw out life altering advice like leaving your husband when they don''t even know either person. I think she should be seeking a good therapist rather than pouring her heart out to a bunch of people on a jewelry forum. I hope for her sake that she decides to do that ASAP.

Back to ogling rings for me!

 

[nkarma]

Date: 12/16/2009 2:15:12 PM
Author: MakingTheGrade
Nkarma,

I can''t speak for Tradergirl. But my husband and I have a healthy joint savings account (for utility bills, joint expenses, etc), but also our own separate accounts for when we want to buy each other presents. We are very open with each other about how much we spend on what, and the point of separate accounts isn''t to hide our spending habits from each other. It''s just a preference thing since we''re newly weds and still like the idea of having personal spending money that we can spend on ourselves (or others) without guilt or asking permission.

And down the line, I can see it coming in handy if I want to plan a big surprise!

Thanks MakingtheGrade. I think we will do separate accounts but probably a bit less than 5-6% of each of our income will go in there just because that is what I usually (and I think him too) spend on things. All the other stuff is monthly expenses and savings for all the stuff I mentioned above. I do like what you said about surprises and not asking permission, but most of this stuff will be pretty small. I guess I what I don''t get about complete separate or separate except for joint expenses is that you both have to have common goals for saving for the other purchases. What if someone says yeah let''s go buy a house I have $50K saved, you put in the same, but the other person spent it all. Or what if one person is saving for retirement with their separate accounts and the other one isn''t.

Anyways, I don''t know how to say this right, but it seems to me (or at least the way I spend my money) a very large percentage of our income will be joint (including any savings) so besides the small separate account thing, I don''t get the whole complete separate account that a lot of couples have. I am asking this because I don''t have 2 parents who role modelled this stuff for me and am fairly young so not many married friends so it''s really interesting to see how couples do things and what works.

Threadjack over. Yes the OP is probably a troll and if you aren''t go to a counselor ASAP and if you can''t afford one talk to your most level headed well adjusted friends.

 

[rockpaperscissors67]

Date: 12/15/2009 11:06:59 AM
Author: Victorya

and how many of you would turn down a proposal from a guy who you loved, and who adored you, just because
he did not have a ring at the moment, especially, if he was promising you a lovely ring, after he landed
a job, and you knew that he would be getting a GOOD job.

Seventeen years ago, I accepted a proposal from a man with a CZ because I believed that at some point he would replace it with a diamond as he said. Eventually, he did buy me a diamond ring that was not my taste at all and he was also very clear that he felt that spending $2-3-4K on just a ring was foolish. This is the same guy that jumped all over me for buying a $3 mascara.

Your husband might not be physically abusing you, but you are being emotionally abused. I understand if you''re not ready to face it, because it took me a long time to see it too in my prior marriage. The worst part, IMHO, is that emotional scars take a LOT longer to heal than physical ones.

My SO and I are not married although we''ve been engaged for 4 years, have a child together and another on the way. If he EVER pulled the kind of stuff on me that your husband is pulling on you, he knows that I would kick his butt. I adore the man and would do anything for him...except tolerate horrible behavior.

SO is an architect and I''m a technical writer without any degree at all. He makes at least twice what I do (it''s up in the air because he just started his own business this year). We do keep our money in separate accounts but he transfers money to my account as needed (because I take care of all of the bills) and I never have to account for what I''ve done with my money. I jokingly tell him that my money is my money and HIS money is MY money. Our money relationship is normal, I think, for the most part.

Anyway...what''s going to happen if you have a child with this man? Think about even the small amount of time that you''d take off for maternity leave. Is he going to pick up your slack financially? What if you wanted to be a stay at home mom? I''d bet you''d never get money for anything besides groceries! I can tell you from experience that this is a very demeaning way to live.

You might consider getting into counseling for yourself to see why you''re willing to tolerate your DH''s behavior. I did it for 18 months and it was HARD work, but after we divorced, I knew that I was less likely to get into an unhealthy relationship because I finally felt like I deserved something GOOD.

 

[caribqueen]

but sometimes I think that maybe the reason he doesnt want to spend on me
is because I am not bringing in alot of money. I can understand that.

anyway I appreciate everyones imput...I understand why some think that I am just trolling
on here, but Im not. My situation is real, and truly frustrating.

If it''s a frustrating situation, you have the power to do something about it, but I don''t know what.

I do think that it doesn''t sound like your husband is a person who''d be open to counseling.

The amount money you make should NOT factor into whether he spends money on you. That''s ridiculous.

 

[kittybean]

Some ideas:

1. Stop being his cook/maid.
2. Get your own bank account. Put your paychecks in that account.
3. Get that second job if you want it.
4. Realize he might never get you that ring. Buy your own if you really want it.
5. Make sure you are prepared to leave if you need to, i.e. put your important documents in a safe deposit box that only you can open, start saving up some cash in case of an emergency, etc.

Best of luck to you.

 

[niceguy]

A MAN'S PERSPECTIVE...


I'm going to be brutally honest with you on this one, because you deserve to be told the truth, even if it is hard to hear. But first, a little about myself so you can understand who these comments are coming from...

I am a 30 year old man, and I make a substantial income in the movie industry. I am very budget conscious and frugal, and I am an avid investor and love to save for the future.

My fiance and I have lived together for a number of years, and we share our income in one account, spending money as we wish. The two of us are on the same page about saving as much as possible for retirement, a down payment on our house, our future childrens'college education, etc.

We were both 'poor' in the past, and have watched our families struggle with bad financial decisions that we vow not to repeat.

Thus, I work late nights and weekends, doing many consulting jobs to bring in extra money for savings, and to give both of us a nice financial cushion that allows both of us to sleep at night.

By the way, I still do some of the chores as well.

Now for some observations and comparisons...

Your husband sounds like the typical self-centered person, and he doesn't really care about your feelings or your happiness. He care's about how you make him feel, and what you do to make his life easy (Such as doing all of the chores, just like a mom would do.)

You should both be dividing your household bills as a percentage of your income. If you make $1500 per month, and he makes $15,000 per month, and you have $5500.00 in household bills, savings, etc., you each put in 30%. You should put in $500, and he puts in $5,000.

Your husband works extra jobs to make more money to buy toys for himself, as opposed to someone like myself, who takes on extra jobs to make sure that I have enough money invested that my fiance will be financially set if I died tomorrow.

Your husband is cheap, but only when it comes to anything regarding you. When it comes to him, he has no problem spending large amounts of money.

Even though I bought my girl a fantastic ring, I personally think that spending thousands of dollars on diamonds is a waste of money. They have no importance to me at all. Of course, to my fiance, the $150,000 Porsche Turbo I'm looking buying is equally useless and a huge waste of money. A fancy sports car is that not important to her. But at the end of the day, I we care very much about each others feelings, and just because something isn't important to one of us, doesn't mean the other one can't have it. I bought her what she wanted because it makes her happy.

At the end of the day, unlike your husband, I actually care about my life partner's happiness, and if it means giving her sparkly things to make her smile, then that's what it is. When it comes to things like that, it's not about me.

After all, she is my best friend, and I do want her to be happy. Her happiness in life is very important to me because I'm a true loyal friend above all else.

Your husband is playing emotional games and holding money over your head to have power over you. This usually comes from insecurity, which leads to selfish behavior. It is a bullying behavior, and will not stop until you stand up to the bully and tell him that you will not accept this behavior anymore.

It will most likely take months of counseling and years of arguing to change this behavior, and in fact it may never change at all.

Fighting about this on a daily basis is not a part of a healthy relationship. Relationships are all about compromise on both sides. He's not compromising at all, so you really don't have a normal relationship.

Frankly, I'm sure that your husband has great qualities, but he sounds like a really bad friend to you. Why would you want to live with a crappy friend for the rest of your life?

He doesn't sound like a man at all. He sounds like a selfish bratty child that needs to grow up! You should try counseling for a number of months, and if things don't turn around within a year, you need to pack up your stuff and move on. If he refuses to go to counseling, move out immediately.

There are many many men out there that will consider your feelings because they genuinely CARE ABOUT YOU. Right now you are not with one of those men.

Good luck sweetie, you're so much stronger than you know...

 

[purrfectpear]

Thank you, you''ve clearly earned your "niceguy" ID

I''ve been in a relationship where my husband made about 5 times my salary. We handled it exactly as you suggest. I contributed a percentage of my income that was equal to his contribution, relative to the disparate salary in a household account. The remainder of our paychecks went into our own private checking accounts. It was important to me (and he agreed) that I felt like an equal partner. When it was time to buy him a present for xmas, birthday, or anni, I felt good that I was gifting him from my money, not money that was in some joint account that would really be more his money than mine.

Personally I think SAHM''s should receive money in a separate account to compensate for their work raising the children and keeping the home. Everyone needs some money that is strictly within their own control IMO.

I hope the OP opens her eyes and realizes that nice guys do exist, and there is no reason to remain in an overly controlling unhealthy relationship.