men, budgets and rings

[Deactivated member 42515]

Date: 12/12/2009 8:49:10 AM
Author: Liane
Yes, I agree that this is another situation that doesn''t really seem to be about the ring.



Here is what I take from your posts, Victorya; please correct anything that is wrong:



1. When you were both poor and courting, your husband promised to get you a ring as soon as he could afford it;

2. Your husband now makes very good money and has for three years, but has not bought the ring;

3. Now that he can afford it, but only since he can afford it, your husband claims that jewelry is a ''brainwash'';

4. Even though you really want jewelry, your husband loudly denigrates it (such as by shouting at the TV when jewelry commercials come on);

5. Your husband refuses to spend money on anything you want (jewelry, fireplace, vacations), claiming that you need to save for far-off future expenses, but is willing to buy himself big-ticket toys (enormous TV, brand new car that he babies);

6. Whenever you ask for things of your own, he calls you ''SO materialistic'';

7. You had to ask him for winter boots and this purchase was subject to his approval, like a kid asking parents for allowance money;

8. He''s getting progressively more miserly over time, to the point where you worry about his parental fitness.



Honestly? If this is accurate, and (this is the big one) IF you have tried to have a calm, clear discussion with him about your needs and expectations and happiness, and IF he was totally unreceptive to that (brushing you off, calling you materalistic, whatever), I''d dump and move on.



This is not a description of anyone who values you as an equal partner or even, frankly, as a person. This is a description of someone who is miserly, controlling, and takes you for granted so completely that he feels he can grant or deny you WINTER BOOTS while buying himself a brand-new car. This is a description of someone who makes excuses or cuts you down as ''materialistic'' to avoid spending any money on you while blowing thousands on himself.



You deserve to be valued and it sounds like you''re not. This isn''t just about a ring. It''s about a relationship, and from what you''re saying in these posts, it''s not a good one and it''s getting worse. Take a good hard look at it. Talk to the guy. Listen to what he says and how he says it. Then decide what''s best for you.

Wow Liane. Your post is so insightful, even I go something out of it!

 

[canuk-gal]

 

[canuk-gal]

Date: 12/11/2009 11:35:16 PM
Author: Victorya
wow it is so nice to read all of these supportive replies, thanks, girls and guys.

Someone mentioned that they also did not have wedding or honeymoon or vacations, you know
I thought with all the money we saved on not having those things that really he could
afford something nice for me...strange how it works in reverse.

I have noticed that whenever I ask for anything that is not a necessity (and this
includes but is not limited to jewelry)

I get a similar reply from him, and that is ''Well, Victorya, I did not think you were SO materialistic''

like he is trying to shame me for having material desires.

I definately put people first in my life before material objects, but does this mean
I can not desire material objects?

WHAT is this? what is this behavior really about?

he was not like this while dating, and really I think the ring might just be the
tip of the ''ice'' berg...(no pun intended)

It seems to me that the more money he makes the less money he is willing to
spend on anything but himself.

and this is making me worried, I know this is not the appropriate forum for this
but it is what it is.

we have not had children, but I am slightly worried about having children with him
because I am worried that he will be as stingy with them as he is with me.

I am sure that they will have a good education, but I feel that he wont indulge them,
and I am the type who likes to indulge children...not spoil, just indulge.

but if he can not even buy me a little something...?

is this indicative of something else, in his character, or sometimes I feel like
I have not lived up to what ever he was expecting from a wife, and that is why.

Last two things I asked for was a cute electric fireplace for the bedroom and
winter boots, as we moved up north this year from a much warmer state for his job.

he declined the fireplace, and allowed the boots, but the point is that I got the
same one liner from him that I did for the ring.

''wow, victorya, I did not know you were SOOO materialistic.

HI:

I know we only see a small snapshot of your life--as posted on a jewellery forum. And at the risk of sounding like a pedant offering 5 cent psychology I will say--if you''ve noticed a gradual change in his attitudes and behaviors--more anger, inflexibility, unreasonableness, etc, perhaps it is a sign of depression or mental unhealth. Can you see a counsellor to help you deal with these unwelcomed changes in your your husbands behavior and in your relationship?

kind regards--Sharon

 

[luv2sparkle]

Victorya, it is definitely time for a very frank discussion with this man. If this is really how he plans to treat you for the duration of your marriage, I would suggest that
you make it clear to him that this is not how you want to spend your life. Perhaps it is a reaction to the unstableness of the economy and his fears for the future. ( I kind of
doubt it, but lets give him the benefit of he doubt). We can all justify our own purchases and things we want. That is just human nature. But you will have some very hard years
ahead if you live with a man who values your heart so very little. Over time this crushing of you takes a great toll. Only you can decide what you want for your future, but
I suspect you don''t want a perfect spouse but one who cares about how you feel. My heart hurts for you, and I pray things will change.

 

[Luckyeshe]

Date: 12/11/2009 6:03:21 PM
Author: pinki
I got my dream ring by explaining to my fiance that I wanted a piece of jewelry that would be an heirloom for our future children and grandchildren.

I said something similar. He got me the very best he could afford knowing that this will be in our family for generations to come.

Personally, you need to be happy and you need to have a talk with your hubby to see where he's coming from. It'd be great if he'd buy the ring for you and if not as why. If he insist that it's brainwashing, then tell him about being to get deals and that it's not like buying a Tiffany or whatever is advertised since you'll be able to have a great ring for a reasonable price. If there's more issues than that, then you may have to talk to him about your wants and needs and make sure that he's at least meeting you half way. That's my .02 anyways. Good luck and I hope things work out for you.

 

[Cehrabehra]

I got married without a diamond as well and my husband feels exactly the same as your dh does (colorless pebbles with greatly exaggerated value akin to the emperor''s new clothes).

However, my husband DOES grasp that the value is in the person and he loves me enough that if *I* value it, it''s worth it and that''s all that matters in the end.

Could you buy yourself one? I know you probably want some romantic attachment to it (I held out for that) but it actually kinda seemed silly when it came to fruition lol Now that the stone is in MY grubby little hands, my husband has nothing to do with it and I realize that any further interactions I have will be on my own, pretty much.

He still thinks they''re worthless but he *smiles* when he rolls his eyes at me.

I don''t know if any of this is helpful, but there may be a couple angles in here you can work

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 12/11/2009 4:49:20 PM
Author: YayTacori
oh my god..... when i read your post... your story is almost exactly like mine... i couldnt believe it. my husband and I didnt have a wedding, didnt have a reception, didnt have a honeymoon, and I didnt get a ring. I dont care about any of the other things, all I asked him was for a ring.


anyway, so now it has been 3 years and my husband has a very good job and he and i are both happy with our income and life. But everytime i brought up the ring issue, he would just shutdown and get upset and say that this stupid ring is making us fight. Does a ring prove that you and I love eachother? And of course I would say no because it no it doenst prove that we love eachother but its the ONLY ONLY ONLY thing I wanted for myself. I didnt ask for a wedding, a honeymoon, or anything else. And then he went out and bought a brand new $9000 dirt bike when he already had one and knew how much this ring was important to me. By this time, I couldnt even bring up the ring without him making me feel bad and us getting in the worst fights we had ever had. And I would tell him you went and bought your bike when you already had one and he would say the bike is different. He can ride the bike andhave fun, and he would ask me, can ou ride a ring? sigh....


But... this past month... something changed and I actually ordered my dream ring last week!!! So.. dont fret Victorya. I know that some people will say go buy yourself a ring... but its not the same. So many ppl just told me to save money secretly and go buy one and just show up withit. But I didnt want to do that... we arein a marraige. we need to consult eachother in purchases. Yes, he may have gone out and bouhgt things without telling you, but you dont want to be the same as him, do you, just to spite him? I know I didnt. And I guess just by supporting him, he realized by himself that this ring is something that was reallllly important to me. Men are dense... and stubborn and arrogant.


And my husband had such a fun time finding rings for me to try! He was surprised cuz he didnt think that he would!


point is, I cant tell you exactly what to do to change your husbands mind because I dont even know what I did to make him change his mind... but know that he loves you and WANTS to give you everything you want... you just gotta help him realize that Happy endings will come. Good luck to you

what DID you do/say or what was the story about the moment he switched over? I wanna know!! lol

 

[Cehrabehra]

bah after that 2nd post you made I''m pissed off for you - he''s demeaning! You need to confront that NOW because it''s only going to get worse.

More than likely the more money he makes the more he thinks it is HIS MONEY and in a marriage that''s never a good sign.

 

[Hest88]

What Liane said.

This is obviously about way more than the ring; it''s about how much or little he values your comfort and happiness.

 

[purrfectpear]

The old "I never knew you were so materialistic" is only working because you let it.

Look him straight in the eye and say "Yes, I am materialistic. You should love me in spite of it. I never knew you were so damn cheap, but I didn''t let that keep me from loving you", then go pick out the ring you want and buy it.

Guilting me would never work. I''m manipulation-proof

 

[rockpaperscissors67]

Date: 12/12/2009 1:03:55 PM
Author: purrfectpear
The old ''I never knew you were so materialistic'' is only working because you let it.

Look him straight in the eye and say ''Yes, I am materialistic. You should love me in spite of it. I never knew you were so damn cheap, but I didn''t let that keep me from loving you'', then go pick out the ring you want and buy it.

Guilting me would never work. I''m manipulation-proof

LOL, PP, I *love* that response!!

I don''t understand what''s so wrong about being materialistic. Aren''t we all to a certain degree? I don''t know anyone that doesn''t want a certain amount of stuff. I don''t value things over people and fun things always come after necessary things, but I''m still materialistic.

I can sympathize with asking to get winter boots. I used to have to ask my ex about the most mundane purchases and it was no way to live. I realized this quite clearly when he threw a fit that I had bought a $3 mascara after I had pinkeye and had to trash my eye makeup. It wasn''t about the money or the mascara...it was about control.

 

[kama_s]

DONT FEED THE TROLL

 

[phoenixgirl]

I agree; I don''t consider it normal to need to ask for necessities or to get his "approval" for things like winter boots. When he calls you materialistic, he is putting you down and trying to control you. If you had a healthy relationship but he was really worried about the money, he would still be nice about it because he would want your feet to be warm. The ring is just a symptom of the bigger issue here. Instead of valuing your happiness and trying to make you happy, he is trying to control you and keep you from having things you need. Big no no.

 

[Deactivated member 42515]

Date: 12/12/2009 12:39:23 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 12/11/2009 4:49:20 PM

Author: YayTacori

oh my god..... when i read your post... your story is almost exactly like mine... i couldnt believe it. my husband and I didnt have a wedding, didnt have a reception, didnt have a honeymoon, and I didnt get a ring. I dont care about any of the other things, all I asked him was for a ring.





anyway, so now it has been 3 years and my husband has a very good job and he and i are both happy with our income and life. But everytime i brought up the ring issue, he would just shutdown and get upset and say that this stupid ring is making us fight. Does a ring prove that you and I love eachother? And of course I would say no because it no it doenst prove that we love eachother but its the ONLY ONLY ONLY thing I wanted for myself. I didnt ask for a wedding, a honeymoon, or anything else. And then he went out and bought a brand new $9000 dirt bike when he already had one and knew how much this ring was important to me. By this time, I couldnt even bring up the ring without him making me feel bad and us getting in the worst fights we had ever had. And I would tell him you went and bought your bike when you already had one and he would say the bike is different. He can ride the bike andhave fun, and he would ask me, can ou ride a ring? sigh....





But... this past month... something changed and I actually ordered my dream ring last week!!! So.. dont fret Victorya. I know that some people will say go buy yourself a ring... but its not the same. So many ppl just told me to save money secretly and go buy one and just show up withit. But I didnt want to do that... we arein a marraige. we need to consult eachother in purchases. Yes, he may have gone out and bouhgt things without telling you, but you dont want to be the same as him, do you, just to spite him? I know I didnt. And I guess just by supporting him, he realized by himself that this ring is something that was reallllly important to me. Men are dense... and stubborn and arrogant.





And my husband had such a fun time finding rings for me to try! He was surprised cuz he didnt think that he would!





point is, I cant tell you exactly what to do to change your husbands mind because I dont even know what I did to make him change his mind... but know that he loves you and WANTS to give you everything you want... you just gotta help him realize that Happy endings will come. Good luck to you

what DID you do/say or what was the story about the moment he switched over? I wanna know!! lol

I wish I could just say there was a definite moment that he changed. Like in the romantic comedies... When the guy is doing something and he suddenly realizes he loves that one girl and runs after her... Haha real life isn''t like that.

I can tell you that we fought and fought and I don''t even know how much I cried. I even thought of divorce once in a while... And not because of the ring but what it symbolized... It was a symbol of his love and devotion because it was THE ONE THING that I wanted SOOOO MUCH and if he couldn''t realize that then I didn''t know if he truly cared.

I know that the turning point was when my sister in law upgraded her ring. She had a simple solitaire but she upgraded to a designer setting. And I wasn''t going to talk to him about it because I was so sick and tired of not getting anywhere with him when I wanted to talk and him getting upset. But the ring eventually came up, and yes, he got upset. But this time, he said things that were hurtful and mean, and I just told him I give up. I don''t want him to talk about this ring anymore and I don''t want to hear about it or see it or anything and I just shut down. I am the kind of person who likes to talk things out but this time, I just stopped talking and just threw up a wall. I can''t say for sure but I think this kinda freaked him out. And HE actually wanted to talk to me about the ring.

I''m sure my story doesn''t necessarily help since u prob can''t make ur sister in law upgrade her ring or even if u have a sister in law... I just want you to know that there can be happy endings. Whether the happy ending is with u and this ring together or if the happy ending is for you to leave him and find a better guy. I''m hope that whatever you choose to do, it makes YOU happy.

He seems to want to control every aspect of your life and you can''t let him. BE STRONG. BE BRAVE. And stick up for what you believe and don''t let him bully you around. I know you do things he wants because u love him, but you have got to LOVE YOURSELF first before anything. Good luck.

 

[Cehrabehra]

yay tacori - I can relate to what you said... I kept waiting and waiting and it never was the right time and I had so much emotion hinging on that damn diamond... now that it''s ''gotten over with'' (lol) I am much more logical about these things and I think so is he.

 

[mousey]

A LOT of couples (me and mine included) have disagreements about finances. What joint money is spent on is such an issue. I once heard that it is one of the biggest issues that crops up in couples counseling. So you are NOT alone. And saying that you should dump and move on is (in my humble opinion) is a complete over reaction. NEVERTHELESS, this sounds a lot like it is about power rather than a ring! The bit about you wanting a fireplace and boots, and him deciding that you got the boots sounded alarm bells to me. This is a very personal question but.... Do you have a source of income yourself, or he is the bread winner? If the former, why is he making all the financial decisions (even down to whether you can buy some boots). If latter, it is still NOT ok that he has all the control over finances. My advice would be to get to the root of the control issues at counseling. Explain to him that you feel overpowered etc when it comes to finances, and you think you should talk to someone to get an impartial opinion on it.
If this is all a bit heavy, and you don t think the problem is bad enough to merit counseling, then one way to sell it to a PhD is to engage his rational side. Try teaching him about diamonds (reflective index and all that yada yada), and tell him there that he can have as much input into the creative process (if you go custom) as he likes.

 

[blackberry16]

It may be very un-pc for me to say this, but I do understand wanting the ring to come from the husband. I am very sentimental about my jewelry and practically don''t wear anything that wasn''t given to me by my husband. Buying my own ring just wouldn''t give me the same feeling as the one he bought me. That being said I am not sure you would get that much enjoyment out of a ring that he didn''t enjoy buying for you. As with everyone else I feel that the ring is a symbol of a bigger issue here. If he truly feels (or perhaps just isn''t mature enough to understand) that your wants are just important as his there needs to be some major evaluations in this case.

 

[Deactivated member 42515]

Date: 12/12/2009 8:50:24 PM
Author: blackberry16
It may be very un-pc for me to say this, but I do understand wanting the ring to come from the husband. I am very sentimental about my jewelry and practically don''t wear anything that wasn''t given to me by my husband. Buying my own ring just wouldn''t give me the same feeling as the one he bought me. That being said I am not sure you would get that much enjoyment out of a ring that he didn''t enjoy buying for you. As with everyone else I feel that the ring is a symbol of a bigger issue here. If he truly feels (or perhaps just isn''t mature enough to understand) that your wants are just important as his there needs to be some major evaluations in this case.

I agree that I wouldn''t want to just go buy a ring for myself if my husband didn''t agree. It obviously is important to vicrorya that her husband agree and want to buy it for her or she wouldn''t have posted here and she would have just went out and bought one. I''m sorry, maybe it is against some PSers and maybe I''m just not as strong? as u guys... Or maybe I''m just old fashioned...but I want my husband to love my ring as much as me... Well... U know what I mean. I don''t think men will truly ever understand... But I would want a ring that when I see it on my finger, I feel his love and devotion. Not I bought this ring myself.... Sorry if I upset some ppl. I don''t think that buying urself a ring is wrong, not at all. Just a ring that symbolizes love and marriage I believe should be a happy agreement between man and wife.

 

[Winks_Elf]

Sell his big-screen TV, put the money towards a divorce attorney, and when he asks "Where''s my tv?" tell him "I didn''t know you were SOOOOOOOOO materialistic!"

Seriously though, he honestly sounds like my ex. He had no problem spending money on booze, parts and toys for his M3, but GOD FORBID I wanted to buy clothes for the kids for school, or anything pretty for myself. Wasn''t going to happen. But once he left me, he had no problem spending god-only-knows how much on wine tasting weekends with her, a designer laptop case for her, etc.

You are adults. You both work. There is no reason you should need his approval to purchase a necessity such as a pair of boots. I''d seriously rethink the relationship, have a talk with him, and if you get no where, get out.

 

[mousey]

whats a troll???

 

[cara]

Date: 12/13/2009 11:47:42 AM
Author: mousey
whats a troll???

Troll (online) from Wikipedia

 

[mousey]

Thanks Cara- why, on earth, would anyone be bothered to do that?

 

[diamondringlover]

Date: 12/13/2009 12:45:48 PM
Author: mousey
Thanks Cara- why, on earth, would anyone be bothered to do that?

I dont know for sure, but I figure they got to much time on their hands and just want to see how people react...crazy stuff I tell ya what....I sure dont understand the reasoning at all!

 

[mousey]

very strange.... But I guess a huge number of people use this forum, and it ''different strokes for different folks'' and all- it seems like a sort of malevolent thing thing to do though...

 

[cara]

Why would a little kid poke his sister KNOWING she hates it?

 

[mousey]

good point- my brother used to make me drink cod liver oil and eat butter....

 

[tradergirl]

I'm sure this won't set well with the hopeless romantics on this board but my husband is also of the "jewelry is a waste of money" mindset.

But it doesn't matter to me. I decided early on that I would never commingle money with him and never have. We've had completely separate bank accounts and finances for the entire 25 years we've been married. He buys what he wants and I buy what I want. Oh sure, he complains mightily but I don't care if he likes it or not. I've bought a lot of jewelry in the past two years, all with my own money. I make a lot more than he does, which I guess does not hurt either.

I'm sure this sounds unsentimental but we're still married and rarely have the money conflicts that cause a lot of people to break up. I think the best marriages are limited partnerships with both parties very much separate entities. Just my opinion.

So, to the OP, were I to find myself in your position, I'd just go out and buy my own jewelry.

PS: to Purrfect Pear: I wish you and I could get together and have a drink. We sound like two peas in a pod.

 

[vespergirl]

Date: 12/12/2009 1:03:55 PM
Author: purrfectpear
The old ''I never knew you were so materialistic'' is only working because you let it.

Look him straight in the eye and say ''Yes, I am materialistic. You should love me in spite of it. I never knew you were so damn cheap, but I didn''t let that keep me from loving you'', then go pick out the ring you want and buy it.

Guilting me would never work. I''m manipulation-proof

Perfect response!

 

[KentK]

I like to say as a married man, I enjoy giving my wife fine jewelry, it’s great advertising for me,

it is a great change for me to show her how important it is to have her in me life.

 

[mousey]

Tradegirl- I don t think it sounds unsentimental- in fact I might just do the same (we don t have shared finances now, and we may not mingle them once married). I have a couple of concerns about this though (since I ve been thinking about this for a little while). First how about if one of us (for whatever reason) doesn''t have the funds and the other does? In that case I reckon the one that has the money should pay more (rent bills etc). Second, How about Kids? Who pays for what when you have children.
My Mom told me a long time ago that woman should always have a separate bank account with enough money in it to feel independent (be able to pay own bills, buy own presents). She said if you do this you are less likely to feel that you need the man, and more likely to want to be with him. This always resonated with me for some reason- it could be because I am (unknown to myself) cynical though.