Marquise diamond from James Allen

[ariel144]

Cheers ariel144 so to summarise should I be looking for a new diamond which is between D and G?

No, I would just get the ASETs for both the I and the F and get the gemologist's opinion because they can look at both at the same
time and see which is the best performer and how much color is showing on the I. That I color marquise has great numbers 65 depth and small 55 table which I really like and if it has a much better cut compared to the F could be the better performer. Both stones are very nice IMO.

It will be interesting to see the ASETS on both stones and to hear the gemologist's opinion.
The more red the better.
You can go to goodoldgold.com and see what an ASET is and a Sarin report on some marquise they have in stock:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/diamonds/marquise.html

Video comparing two marquise:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43FDqltKzKU

(Personally I like the wider bellied marquise too)

comparing 3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDPRLT8wFfQ

 

[ariel144]

You will notice in the 2nd video especially he has no concern over the SI2 clarity. He is focusing only on performance. Of the 2 best performers when he compares the G to the D the D wins on the brghtness from the higher color in natural lighting.
the lesson here is don't be concerned with clarity issues on marquise...I guess the faceting hides the inclusions well.

 

[ariel144]

Ok, after watching this video with the 3 marquise I went back and looked again at the marquise on JA and I found 2 more you might want to consider. I would probably not choose the I color because it will show more color which will affect it's brightness...like the G color compared to the D in the video.

I really liked this one the first time I looked and excluded it because it was a little shallow but IMO not too shallow for a marquise cut.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/marquise-cut/1.07-carat-d-color-si1-clarity-sku-299715

I really like blue flourescence in diamonds because in certain lighting they give off a blue hue giving the diamond more personality...so when I choose my "dream" diamond it will have med - very strong blue fl.

Rarely does fl. cause a milky or cloudy stone but that is one thing you have to check for when choosing a diamond with flourescence.

I also LOVE the shape of this 1.07 D marquise...nice fat body and lovely faceting ...plus it is a D color. (The wider the marquise the more finger coverage and the larger the stone will look on her finger. Also a minimal bowtie.

Here is an E color that seems nice as well.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/marquise-cut/1.00-carat-e-color-si1-clarity-sku-13056

I would get the ASETS on the F, D and E and pass on the I even though it seems very well cut.

Educate, educate, educate. The more we learn the better to choices we make. These same principles apply to ovals and pears.
Fancy shapes are SO different from choosing rounds.

 

[Niel]

I'm going to politely disagree on that 1.07 D. It's really dull and not well cut. Lovely shape, but its not going to sparkle all that much.

As someone who's seen lower colored marquise, I really don't think a well cut I will be too tinted. I would at the very least have a gemologist look at it and review the color for you.

 

[marymm]

FWIW, here are my comments:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/marquise-cut/1.07-carat-d-color-si1-clarity-sku-299715 - I tend to agree with Niel that this marquise will likely be more dull as compared to other, better-cut marquise shapes - if you rock the video so it goes back and forth you can see while there is liveliness in the center third of the diamond, the outer thirds (at each side) are basically dull.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/marquise-cut/1.00-carat-e-color-si1-clarity-sku-13056 - I can see a crystal inclusion on the face of this diamond in the video (on the outskirts of the table, apx 4 o'clock)- I'd be worried the stone would not be eyeclean - also, note the diamond report is IGI, from 1998 - if it were me, I'd rather go with a GIA stone.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/marquise-cut/1.01-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-sku-400773 - this diamond I think is a solid choice - if you rock the video back and forth, you can see the entire diamond basically lights up, so the performance should be excellent. If it were me, I'd want to see this Aset, and also would specifically ask JA as to the I color and how it shows on this diamond - could be a high I color, so closer to H; could be low I, closer to J; could be a solid, middle I color - can't tell from the video so the gemologist's comments/opinion in this regard would be helpful. And, if the Aset bears out that this marquise is well-cut and has a lively performance across the stone, that also will brighten the overall appearance of the diamond.

 

[ariel144]

Same principles for ovals:
G-I-J colors check out especially the 14 min mark in natural lighting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGN4s91FALw

Notice that he liked the performance of the I color but in natural light the body color canceled it out.
The point being you cannot choose these fancy cut marquise only by the apparent well faceting or clarity...he
makes his choice ultimately by the brightness exhibited in natural lighting ...and in 2 videos rules out the lower
colors G in one with the marquise video and the I in the other (oval) based on the fact the body color affects it's brightness.

all G color
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md72wHBLm74

Although of all these 4 marquise stones on JA ... the I color seeming to be the best faceting...when seen in natural lighting conditions it will most likely pick up a lot of body color making it less bright in real life than the F, D, or E stones. I'm no expert...I'm just trying to learn and help the OP find the best stone in his budget.

Another interesting case:...this marquise seems to have gray under the table in the photos but in looking at all the ASETs on their in stock marquise it seems to have the best ASET with the most red under the table.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/2-01ct-i-si2-marquise-diamond.html

Bottom line, the best way to judge these fancies are by visual appearance in natural light to see which shows up the brightest..Just sayin.

 

[Niel]

You can't compare one oval to a marquise that only have one thing in common, the color the gia gave it.

The very n/s faceting of a well cut mq, is different than an oval and as mentioned above, an I can have different undertones, be a high I or a Low I, and each needs to be evaluated individually. I've personally seen a pear in a Gia H vs a Marquise in a Gia I and the color was much more concentrated in the H because of the particular cut the pear had vs the extremely well cut mq in an I color.

Again, have a gemologist look at it. Ask them to comment on the color specifically. They will be honest.

 

[ariel144]

FWIW, here are my comments:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/marquise-cut/1.07-carat-d-color-si1-clarity-sku-299715 - I tend to agree with Niel that this marquise will likely be more dull as compared to other, better-cut marquise shapes - if you rock the video so it goes back and forth you can see while there is liveliness in the center third of the diamond, the outer thirds (at each side) are basically dull.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/marquise-cut/1.00-carat-e-color-si1-clarity-sku-13056 - I can see a crystal inclusion on the face of this diamond in the video (on the outskirts of the table, apx 4 o'clock)- I'd be worried the stone would not be eyeclean - also, note the diamond report is IGI, from 1998 - if it were me, I'd rather go with a GIA stone.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/marquise-cut/1.01-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-sku-400773 - this diamond I think is a solid choice - if you rock the video back and forth, you can see the entire diamond basically lights up, so the performance should be excellent. If it were me, I'd want to see this Aset, and also would specifically ask JA as to the I color and how it shows on this diamond - could be a high I color, so closer to H; could be low I, closer to J; could be a solid, middle I color - can't tell from the video so the gemologist's comments/opinion in this regard would be helpful. And, if the Aset bears out that this marquise is well-cut and has a lively performance across the stone, that also will brighten the overall appearance of the diamond.

I suggest you watch the videos and you may reassess your choice as I did. That I stone has a lot of body color in the video and when seen in natural light this will probably show up making it less bright as did the lower colors in the two videos I posted.

As far as the crystal in the E color stone it may be an issue for some but if it is the brightest best stone to the eye it would not be a big deal to me. When people view a stone they see the brightness and sparkle and do not stare close up looking for minor inclusions. As far as the IGI cert. I just learned that they are VERY comparable to GIA in their grading, which I did not know. The second highest next to GIA, with a negligible difference in grading.....just read an article on PS about that. It is just a piece of paper and I would not think less of this stone because of an IGI cert.

 

[ariel144]

You can't compare one oval to a marquise that only have one thing in common, the color the gia gave it.

The very n/s faceting of a well cut mq, is different than an oval and as mentioned above, an I can have different undertones, be a high I or a Low I, and each needs to be evaluated individually. I've personally seen a pear in a Gia H vs a Marquise in a Gia I and the color was much more concentrated in the H because of the particular cut the pear had vs the extremely well cut mq in an I color.

Again, have a gemologist look at it. Ask them to comment on the color specifically. They will be honest.

Yes, my thoughts as well. Let the gemologist pick based on visuals.

(I wasn't comparing a marquise stone to an oval stone per se...just the principle that they pick up body color which usually rules out the lower colored stone....at least in these videos)

As we all KNOW...cut is definitely king! But learning in these fancies color is also very important.

 

[msop04]

This is the nicest one in your budget.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/marquise-cut/1.01-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-sku-400773

This... this... HANDS DOWN -- THIS!! OP, this is an extremely nicely cut MQ, so please put it on hold and strongly consider it. Niel is the marquise whisperer!

FWIW, I don't like the other MQ... It's dull and won't have nearly the visual appeal of the 1.01 I color Niel posted.

 

[msop04]

I noticed the 1.01 I from JA isn't available -- I hope it was you that reserved it, OP!! It's a beauty!!

 

[msop04]

As far as the crystal in the E color stone it may be an issue for some but if it is the brightest best stone to the eye it would not be a big deal to me. When people view a stone they see the brightness and sparkle and do not stare close up looking for minor inclusions. As far as the IGI cert. I just learned that they are VERY comparable to GIA in their grading, which I did not know. The second highest next to GIA, with a negligible difference in grading.....just read an article on PS about that. It is just a piece of paper and I would not think less of this stone because of an IGI cert.

 

[ariel144]

I'm going to politely disagree on that 1.07 D. It's really dull and not well cut. Lovely shape, but its not going to sparkle all that much.

As someone who's seen lower colored marquise, I really don't think a well cut I will be too tinted. I would at the very least have a gemologist look at it and review the color for you.

This I certainly has an exceptional cut and hope it doesn't show color, but the more I research marquise the more I learn they do tend to show color...maybe this one will surprise me. Hope so...it is a beaut!

 

[ariel144]

As far as the crystal in the E color stone it may be an issue for some but if it is the brightest best stone to the eye it would not be a big deal to me. When people view a stone they see the brightness and sparkle and do not stare close up looking for minor inclusions. As far as the IGI cert. I just learned that they are VERY comparable to GIA in their grading, which I did not know. The second highest next to GIA, with a negligible difference in grading.....just read an article on PS about that. It is just a piece of paper and I would not think less of this stone because of an IGI cert.

Educate yourself as I am doing...you might find this study interesting on grading labs:

http://www.diamonds.net/News/NewsItem.aspx?ArticleID=43417

Quality index rating
1st GIA 14.8
2nd IGI 14.9
3rd EGL USA 15.4
4th HRD 16.3
5th EGL HK 19.5
6th EGL Israel 19.8

I was not familiar with IGI at all so it was interesting how close they grade to the GIA standard. That was my point.
Maybe you are not familiar with that lab as well. Based on this fact your response was ridiculous. Yes an IGI piece of paper compared to a GIA piece of paper would be no problem if that stone is the best one when compared to a GIA stone.

 

[msop04]

Educate yourself as I am doing...you might find this study interesting on grading labs:

http://www.diamonds.net/News/NewsItem.aspx?ArticleID=43417

Quality index rating
1st GIA 14.8
2nd IGI 14.9
3rd EGL USA 15.4
4th HRD 16.3
5th EGL HK 19.5
6th EGL Israel 19.8

I was not familiar with IGI at all so it was interesting how close they grade to the GIA standard. That was my point.
Maybe you are not familiar with that lab as well. Based on this fact your response was ridiculous. Yes an IGI piece of paper compared to a GIA piece of paper would be no problem if that stone is the best one when compared to a GIA stone.

I'm not going to argue with you... GIA and AGS are the more respected labs, by a long shot. I am familiar with IGI. I just think the GIA 1.01 I MQ from JA is superior, regardless of color. I'd rather have a well cut fireball than a clear blue football of frozen spit.

Your claim that "it's only a piece of paper" is naïve. If that were the case, no one would care and we'd all be talking about how EGL Israel graded stones are so much better because they're way less expensive. I'm not saying there are not good IGI graded stones out there (you can find good stones graded by any lab), but there's a reason why IGI stones aren't suggested. People like to know what they're buying and feel they've been graded/priced properly, that is all...

EDIT: in no way am I insinuating the IGI MQ looks like frozen spit... it's nicer than most MQ's I see IRL... it's just not as well cut as the 1.01 I

 

[kenny]

A $100 bill and a $1 are both merely paper.
A diploma from Harvard University and one from Podunk correspondence course are both paper.

I guess the meaning of what's printed on paper doesn't matter.

People who say, "Don't buy the paper, buy the diamond." need to go read a book.

 

[marymm]

ariel144 - the RapNet survey was interesting, thanks for the link (http://www.diamonds.net/News/NewsItem.aspx?ArticleID=43417).

However, the RapNet survey was comprised of a very small sample, only 10 round-cut diamonds, which to my mind is insufficient to conclude that overall IGI's grading standards are akin to GIA's and thus should be accorded similar respect and reliance.

For that matter, I am convinced the results would have been entirely different, had the survey utilized fancy-shaped diamonds.

 

[ariel144]

A $100 bill and a $1 are both merely paper.
A diploma from Harvard University and one from Podunk correspondence course are both paper.

I guess the meaning of what's printed on paper doesn't matter.

People who say, "Don't buy the paper, buy the diamond." need to go read a book.

I was only comparing IGI paper to GIA paper. Please read for context...two diamonds one GIA and one IGI...Quite making it another issue. thanks

FYI with the analogy of $100 bill vs the $1 bill making a difference in "value"...both are in FACT fiat currency backed by NOTHING...i.e. NO REAL VALUE. Nice try though...or we could go to them literally bull dozing MOUNTAINS of diamonds in South Africa (saw that on PBS) and how the Debeers marketed diamonds to give them "value" but I won't go there either...you can probably get educated on that on youtube though.

Lets just try to help this OP pick the best marquise on his budget. The actual point being the OP should not rule out the E stone if it is the best performer just because it has an IGI cert. THAT is the point. If it was not a well respected lab their stones would not be posted on JA.
(I don't need to be educated on grading labs, but thanks MSOP4 & Kenny...and Kenny you need to curb your condescending attitude.)

Kenny, If you have an opinion on these 3-4 suggested stones that the OP is asking for help choosing I"m sure he would appreciate your knowledge and input.

 

[classmaz]

Thanks for all the feedback and guidance I have placed a hold on the diamond Neil recommended and the one arial suggested. I have requested that both have asets done. I have received an email from JA asking if I have a favourite between the two diamonds and that the agent thought Neil's stood out more. The agent has asked what exactly do I want looking at. So if someone could help me put the correct questions together I would appreciate it

Regards
Mike

 

[msop04]

Thanks for all the feedback and guidance I have placed a hold on the diamond Neil recommended and the one arial suggested. I have requested that both have asets done. I have received an email from JA asking if I have a favourite between the two diamonds and that the agent thought Neil's stood out more. The agent has asked what exactly do I want looking at. So if someone could help me put the correct questions together I would appreciate it

Regards
Mike

That's great news, OP! I'm glad you put it on hold. I think the JA rep may be asking what is more important to you... (like if you value cut and sparkle over color, or vice versa). Do you know what is more important to your intended? Do you know how you'd like to set it? (sorry if that's been said already...)

 

[ariel144]

Thanks for all the feedback and guidance I have placed a hold on the diamond Neil recommended and the one arial suggested. I have requested that both have asets done. I have received an email from JA asking if I have a favourite between the two diamonds and that the agent thought Neil's stood out more. The agent has asked what exactly do I want looking at. So if someone could help me put the correct questions together I would appreciate it

Regards
Mike

1. ASETs (done)
2. How much color is the I producing in natural light and is the color tint ..yellow, brown, pink, green, gray etc
(It may not show any tint of color, which would be ideal of course)
3. Which stone is brighter and best performer in natrual light to the naked eye.
4. I would also request that the opinions come from the gemologist him/herself.

Maybe someone can think of something else that should be asked.

Hope this helps.

 

[classmaz]

Msop04 I am not sure what she would appreciate more colour or sparkle. The setting we are going for is most likely this http://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/engagement-rings/side-stones/platinum-0.54ct-common-prong-round-shaped-diamond-engagement-ring-item-139

I am not sure if they are asking it so it speeds the process up or if they are just being helpful. Here is there exact email
Thank you for shopping with James Allen! My name is Tia and I'm part of the gemological team that will fulfill your request for a gemologist inspection for diamonds 530025 and 400773. I've taken a look at the 360 videos for each diamond and they are quite stunning!

Did one of these two stand out to you at all in your search? Without having the gemologist feedback yet, diamond 400773 stands out to me among the two with incredible light return and sparkle!

I can certainly still submit the request for a gemologist inspection for you, but I wanted to see if one had stood out to you more first and if the one that I had mentioned draws your attention. I also want to make you aware that the request will take 3-5 business days in case you had certain plans in place.

Let me know what you think of these two diamonds and if you do still wish to initiate the request. Please let me know if you have any further questions!

 

[classmaz]

Thanks for all the feedback and guidance I have placed a hold on the diamond Neil recommended and the one arial suggested. I have requested that both have asets done. I have received an email from JA asking if I have a favourite between the two diamonds and that the agent thought Neil's stood out more. The agent has asked what exactly do I want looking at. So if someone could help me put the correct questions together I would appreciate it

Regards
Mike

1. ASETs (done)
2. How much color is the I producing in natural light and is the color tint ..yellow, brown, pink, green, gray etc
3. Which stone is brighter and best performer in natrual light to the naked eye.
4. I would also request that the opinions come from the gemologist him/herself.

Maybe someone can think of something else that should be asked.

Hope this helps.

Yes it does thanks I will send it tomorrow and see if anyone else adds any other questions

 

[ariel144]

Msop04 I am not sure what she would appreciate more colour or sparkle. The setting we are going for is most likely this http://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/engagement-rings/side-stones/platinum-0.54ct-common-prong-round-shaped-diamond-engagement-ring-item-139

I am not sure if they are asking it so it speeds the process up or if they are just being helpful. Here is there exact email
Thank you for shopping with James Allen! My name is Tia and I'm part of the gemological team that will fulfill your request for a gemologist inspection for diamonds 530025 and 400773. I've taken a look at the 360 videos for each diamond and they are quite stunning!

Did one of these two stand out to you at all in your search? Without having the gemologist feedback yet, diamond 400773 stands out to me among the two with incredible light return and sparkle!

I can certainly still submit the request for a gemologist inspection for you, but I wanted to see if one had stood out to you more first and if the one that I had mentioned draws your attention. I also want to make you aware that the request will take 3-5 business days in case you had certain plans in place.

Let me know what you think of these two diamonds and if you do still wish to initiate the request. Please let me know if you have any further questions!

" Without having the gemologist feedback yet, diamond 400773 stands out to me among the two with incredible light return and sparkle!"

You could relate to Tia that:
This I color/400773 was the one that stood out to you as well but you were concerned that the lower color MIGHT make it less bright in natural light. That is why you would like to have a side by side comparison with the F color stone.

Does one perform much better than the other or do they perform close to the same?

Marquise tend to absorb color...thus asking which tint color is it showing (if any).

I remember a thread discussing 2 cushion cuts on JA, both with ASETS/videos etc...the majority of the PSr's chose one stone...I chose the other one for several reasons....the OP had both stones sent to her and she chose the same one that most PSr's did not pick because it was the better performing stone in all diff. lighting perspectives.

Jon on GOG has stated that he has seen great pictures on stones that turned out really ugly. Thus a IRL visual is always necessary. Lesson learned....Sometimes the pictures and ASETs don't tell the whole story. Too bad JA doesn't video stones side by side.

The outcome will be interesting.

 

[marymm]

You may also want to have the gemologist confirm the 1.00ct F-SI1 (#530025) is eyeclean - with the magnified video we can see the twinning wisp/feather inclusions and while likely they are not visible to the naked eye, I'd still ask the gemologist about it.

While I do prize the smaller table/higher crown of the 1.01ct I-VS2 (#400773), I am quite impressed with the F-SI1 stone ... all things being equal, as I prefer colorless stones I'd probably choose the F-SI1 if it is eyeclean. As your top choice for setting has G/H melee, though, you can't really go wrong with either stone (color-wise).

I look forward to hearing what the gemologist has to say about these two stones.

 

[Niel]

I'm going to politely disagree on that 1.07 D. It's really dull and not well cut. Lovely shape, but its not going to sparkle all that much.

As someone who's seen lower colored marquise, I really don't think a well cut I will be too tinted. I would at the very least have a gemologist look at it and review the color for you.

This I certainly has an exceptional cut and hope it doesn't show color, but the more I research marquise the more I learn they do tend to show color...maybe this one will surprise me. Hope so...it is a beaut!

Have you been reading PS or actually looking into marquise cuts for yourself? Have you had the pleasure of seeing this style of mq cut in person? The I?

I can say I've had a handful of stones cut with this style of facetting for a mq (which is in actually different then your run of the mill mq), and the issue of concentrated color at the tips really seems to be resolved in these cuts. I had an M mq in a similar cut and the tips did not look any more concentrated in color than the center

If you've had a different experience though, I'm def not trying to discount it

 

[Niel]

Hey op

Any word on the basket for the mq? Whichever you pick

 

[classmaz]

Hi Neil she likes all 3 you have suggested so she has left it down to the forum to decide what looks and goes the best with the marquise. I think she is still in shock I asked her to marry me lol

 

[msop04]

OP, would it be possible to order both MQ stones and have you FI decide for herself? Then, you could simply return the other stone to JA... I would ask them if they would do that with the understanding that one would be returned. This would be the simplest answer. If you had room on a card, then there ya go!

Some people want the best cut, sparkliest stone possible and don't mind that it's not stark white... others will sacrifice cut quality and great light return for a higher color.

As Niel has mentioned, the better the cut, the more it will "camouflage" any tint saturation at the tips. As you may have guessed, I'd rather have the super sparkly "not stark white" stone that will put on a light show than a super white one that falls short or goes dead in certain areas -- but that is my taste.

Without knowing your FI's taste, it's more difficult to try to pick from one of the stones suggested. (yeah... no help, I know)

 

[ariel144]

On the subject of marquise diamonds...ever seen one like this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GIA-2-02ct-Duchess-Marquise-Loose-Diamond-J-color-SI1-clarity-13-29x7-17x3-63mm-/351313165569?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51cbe57d01

No Niel I'm not an expert in marquise but have been looking at them for some time since my daughter told me she wanted one a couple of years ago. I know they are your passion since you have one.

This thread has been fun and caused me to research more where I found Jon's videos on MQ cuts, which I thought might help the OP.

I prefer the antique chunky cut ones but they are hard to find in the higher colors. found one in a G color but it sold.
Here is one in a J.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GIA-3-18ct-Marquise-Loose-Diamond-J-color-SI1-clarity-18-37-x-8-30-x-3-13mm-/371118655964?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56686549dc

Can't wait to see which stone the OP chooses.