Long time friend ripped into me

[Begonia]

Hey all,

Got a few minutes to listen?

My longtime friend 'Maggie' ripped into me and my son on the phone yesterday. I couldn't write about it yesterday...I was shaking.

What happened?

Not too sure. I'll tell you a bit about our history - it may, or may not, be important.

We have a long and complicated history that involves both us and our same-age sons, who are also friends. Just last year our kids changed schools (went to the same one). Our boys had been friends for years. Within weeks of changing, her son ('Kirk') distanced himself from my son 'Sam'. We couldn't understand why, and he was quite lonely for a time. Within a short time, 3 lads started to bully Sam. That was a very painful thing for my boy, and caused a tremendous amount of stress in the family. We got through it, and he slowly made some new friends. He was hurt that Kirk had abandoned him when he really needed him of course, but found joy in his new friendships.

Maggie also distanced herself in an abrasive and unkind way. She had formed a new friendship with an extremely wealthy woman and seemed excited about where that might take her. I listened on the phone a lot, but said little. I figured friendships ebb and flow, and tried to handle it with grace. It was painful however to get dumped, for both me and my son.

After a few months I heard back from Maggie. Her wealthy friend had dumped her and treated Maggie's teenage daughter unkindly. I listened and said little. Maggie seemed to have turned over a new leaf and was reaching out for friendship again. She spoke appreciatively of our past friendship and seemed a kinder person. Like a few epiphanies had happened in her world. I learned a lot, and challenged my inner doormat tendencies. Spoke up more and felt more authentic. I was really proud of both of us for getting past those hurts and of our learning curve.

Our sons are now in High School and are reforging their friendship as well. They online game a fair bit, but help each other in class. They are in the same academic program at school.

Maggie called yesterday, and I could tell she was foul about something. Her tone was biting, and sarcastic. She started criticizing my son Sam (a frequent habit) and suggested that he is poorly suited for the academic program he is in. Sam has just, for the first time ever, gotten on the honor roll. This program is about mentoring kids to achieve their personal best, and it seems to be working. Her son got on a lower honor roll. I don't compare our kids grades and stay away from those topics for the obvious reasons. Our boys know a bit about each others grades as they are in the same class, but I counsel Sam to stay mum on these subjects, as parents can get very competitive.

Our sons game online together, and she kept repeating that she was "sick and tired of hearing Sams voice on her computer". My son has a headset, so I only hear his voice, not her sons. She must have repeated that 5 or 6 times. It was way over the top. It wasn't so much what she said, but the tone and unspoken content of her words referring to my son Sam that was chilling. It was nasty.

I didn't blow up, but after a while got really angry, and got off the phone before I said something that was unfair. It was just ugly people. I could tell you more, but would have to write for pages.

Maggie called this am and left a message, which I screened. I don't want to take her call just yet as I need more clarity and perspective. Her message sounded like she was ready for round 2, quite frankly.

A few months back, I started a thread about Frenemies in your life. I am referring to Maggie.

We had made so much progress and both of us had compromised and made such an effort. I can't help but feel that with 1 phone call, she has undone all of the hard work we have both done over the past 9 months.

I'm not too sure how to handle it from here to be honest. I know I need a few days to calm down. If I talk to her now, you will all be able to see the mushroom cloud from your fair cities. I don't want to respond like that anymore, although tempting when someone goes after your boy.

I welcome your feedback and similar experiences...

 

[Rosebloom]

Oh boy - I'm so sorry you're going through this! It's especially hurtful when someone goes after your kids. Not cool.

Hang in there. I hope you find a peaceful solution - whatever it is!

 

[Rosebloom]

Oh boy - I'm so sorry you're going through this! It's especially hurtful when someone goes after your kids. Not cool.

Hang in there. I hope you find a peaceful solution - whatever it is!

 

[OneFifty]

Begonia - I'm really sorry that you are going through this. If Maggie is a frenemy, then I don't think using logic or reasoning will work out. It is clear from her phone call that she is not reasonable, so why would trying to discuss it with her as a normal person would be successful? I'm sorry that your son is involved in this and it adds a whole different dimension on the contact you should maintain with Maggie and the level of cordiality. If the kids were not involved, then I would say tell her what you really think - mushroom cloud be damned, but for the sake of the kids it might be better to keep it in a little.

I had a frenemy in college and there is just not enough space for the stories. After we graduated, we kind of lost touch and I do not miss that drama in my life for sure. I think if you keep asking yourself why you are friends with someone everytime they pull some stunt, then it is not worth it.

Waiting until you have calmed down a bit to talk was very wise and I know that what ever you decide to do you will handle it with grace.

 

[innerkitten]

She doesn't sound like a good friend at all. She's saying very hurtful things . Maybe you need to spend more time with your other friends and not this one. But that doesn't mean your kids can't have some type of friendship even if you don't.

 

[partgypsy]

I'm so sorry. If it at all makes you feel better, it doesn't have to do with you, or Sam. You are the scape goat. But it is hard to be attacked by someone you think of as a friend.

I think I detailed on here, where I had a long time friend, whom we finally "broke up". I miss her, but I don't miss the interactions. Probably, if I apologized to her, we would be back being friends. However she is the one who needs to apologize, and as our falling out occured in July and she seems to have no intention of doing so, our relationship is pretty much ended. I invited her to a couple group events, both which she declined (too busy). She then did invite me to her birthday party and attended, but it was awkward. she wouldn't look at me in the eye and at first didn't acknowledge me, so I just chatted with mutual friends and didn't stay long. the only conversation we had at the party she mentioned how a mutual acquantince wanted to have lunch with us. To me, I thought that was a little weird. That we hadn't had a proper clearing of the air, but wants to do this lunch thing, with this person, I know she has said negative things with and said she wanted to distance herself from. So about a week later she called, and said that so and so still wanted to have lunch, but that she would not be available because she is busy with a, b, and c. and I said, that's OK. We can wait for when you are available. And she hasn't called back since. I will be having a group holiday party and invite her, but it will be awkward. We were close enough friends we bought each other gifts, but not sure what to do in this case.

 

[mogster]

Genuinely curious why you are still friends, does she have redeeming qualities? I can't imagine in what universe it is acceptable to criticize someone else's child for drill (which is what it sounds like). I would either limit or cease my friendship with her. I would not call her either, but rather write a letter (so that you can gather your thoughts, it's easy forget in the heat of an argument, and not say anything you might regret). I'd include a stipulation as well -- that you can't be friends if she can't be respectful.

 

[SB621]

Oh I'm so sorry you are going through this. I did not read or see your other post about frenemies so I don't know what was said there so I apologize if this is a repeat. I will say that for my own personal experience I find it hard to dump people in my life- even if they treat me bad. I have that complex that I want to see people do better and I believe I can help them. It has cause me more stress and unhappiness then I care to share. I have several "Maggie's" in my life and probably was a "Maggie" to someone else along the way. It litterally took a move across to the other side of the world to break me of this habbit. DH moved to Japan for work so we uprooted and left the area we were in. I only kept in contact with my closest friends- people who I wanted in my life. It made it much easier to see the path forward and know that I just had to quit doing what I was doing. I wasn't helping them or me but continuing the friendship.

While I'm glad Maggie seemed to realize at one point what a wonderful friendship you had it seems that both of you are not ready to be hoenst with each other. She is competitve with you and your son, and you don't speak up to her and set up boundaries. For the time being I would just say to her that you feel what she said was unwarranted and you need some distance from her. I would still be polite, but not be quiet. She should know that to bring your son into any toxic conversation is a show stopper for you.

Goodluck with Maggie. it is so hard when your kids are friends, especially in high school when teens can be so cruel.

 

[Begonia]

Thanks for the feedback everyone .

I alternate between furious and sad.

Furious that she had the colossal gall to say some of the things she did, and sad that our friendship has taken a huge step in the wrong direction.

I've blown up so many bridges in my day, that I had resolved to try to work through the tough times with the people I do have in my life - especially when you've invested years in a friendship. We have had some really good times, and the past 9 months have been quite rewarding. She does criticize my son however, and I've not tackled that as promptly as I should have. The crits were small and subtle, but this recent phone call was BAM.

I read years ago, that when something like this happens, it may not have anything to do with the person being mistreated. The angry person may be worried, upset, not feel well etc. This does feel personal however...

 

[Begonia]

Didn't get a chance to read the other posts before I put mine up...

Maggie is extremely clever, funny as hell, and we can talk on the phone for hours. We've shared many life transitions and she has been supportive during a recent rough patch for me. I've been there for her when her husband left her and when her daughter has difficulties. There were some really good times. The crap happened quite a few months ago, although threads of it find it's way into our friendship even today.

We've never had The Talk.

Begonia ain't so good at talking sometimes.

It's gotta be done now however.

She ripped into my kid in a way that is not okay with me. I should have attended to the early, subtle stuff before now.

Damn.

Well, gonna sleep on it for a few more nights. Still too PO-ed.

 

[partgypsy]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/falling-out-with-friend.106356/?hilit=friend']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/falling-out-with-friend.106356/?hilit=friend[/URL]

In case you were wondering if we broke up due to one email exchange, no.

 

[SB621]

I read years ago, that when something like this happens, it may not have anything to do with the person being mistreated. The angry person may be worried, upset, not feel well etc. This does feel personal however...

I just dont' think it should matter. True friends would never want to hurt you like that- or your son. I know it sounds cliche...

 

[Begonia]

Oh I'm so sorry you are going through this. I did not read or see your other post about frenemies so I don't know what was said there so I apologize if this is a repeat. I will say that for my own personal experience I find it hard to dump people in my life- even if they treat me bad. I have that complex that I want to see people do better and I believe I can help them. It has cause me more stress and unhappiness then I care to share. I have several "Maggie's" in my life and probably was a "Maggie" to someone else along the way. It litterally took a move across to the other side of the world to break me of this habbit. DH moved to Japan for work so we uprooted and left the area we were in. I only kept in contact with my closest friends- people who I wanted in my life. It made it much easier to see the path forward and know that I just had to quit doing what I was doing. I wasn't helping them or me but continuing the friendship.

While I'm glad Maggie seemed to realize at one point what a wonderful friendship you had it seems that both of you are not ready to be hoenst with each other. She is competitve with you and your son, and you don't speak up to her and set up boundaries. For the time being I would just say to her that you feel what she said was unwarranted and you need some distance from her. I would still be polite, but not be quiet. She should know that to bring your son into any toxic conversation is a show stopper for you.

Goodluck with Maggie. it is so hard when your kids are friends, especially in high school when teens can be so cruel.

Yes, she is extremely competitive. It's just icky and I hate it.

I hear ya about the boundaries. Sigh...

 

[iLander]

Write down everything she said that bothered you.

Then call her back.

First thing you say is "I'm returning your call, in the hopes that you called to apologize."

She'll say "For what?" if she's an idiot.

Then you say "I thought you said some very rude things about my son." Then list them out for her. Do not give her a chance to interrupt. If she does, just say "Sorry, no through yet," and continue. Then close with "I felt that was all very hurtful and compromises our friendship."

Then see what she has to say for herself. She will start to make excuses for herself, but you need to keep repeating "But I felt it was rude" or critical or whatever. If she starts talking about your son's voice on her computer, then say "Well, it's a two-way street. Your son's voice is constantly on my computer as well."

If she does manage to grow up and say "sorry" then you say "Thank you, I accept. Have you finished your Christmas shopping?" and change the subject. To sound more confident, stand up while you are on the phone, your voice comes out stronger. It's an old trick.

If you are truly considering dumping this friend (frankly I think you should) then you have nothing to lose. She sounds shallow and self-centered. She uses people, as she did the wealthy woman. In my day, we called that a fair-weather friend. Not actually worth having one of those, but you can treat her briskly and with distance, so as not to upset the kids.

ETA: Whenever you start a conversation, begin with a goal in mind, and stick to it.

 

[lyra]

Sounds like she has been through a lot in recent years, and her life isn't going as well as she'd hoped. I think you are part of the collateral damage right now. Her husband left her, her daughter has difficulties and her son isn't getting stellar grades in school. Maybe she has financial issues too, and it's the holiday season. I think she's having a meltdown.

You are very wise to just give it time. I don't think the real issue is your son. She's just lashing out. I think I'd be civil and keep mostly out of her loop as much as possible for this month, since anything you might say may have negative effects on your son and his relationship with Kirk. She might try cutting Sam out completely or something like that.

You don't have to be a doormat, but you also don't have to accept this as stress. Keeping out of it and letting go might be more helpful. Letting her drift away might also be easier in the long run.

 

[Enerchi]

Oh CRAP! Begonia, that is so not fair!! I have not read anyone's replies yet, because I wanted to just 'react' and type. (After I post, I'll read, then I'll probably edit because I'll be way off base! )

Maggie sounds like a competitive social climber and you were a 'block' for her. Perhaps once you moved on up, as they say in the Jefferson's, she found 'value' in you again and then reconnected. She sounds INCREDIBLY insecure! omg - who compares kids??? I mean - they are KIDS! - and they are unique and have their own issues and they are NOT their parents... anyway - tangential thought... back to the topic.

Maggie is using you. Sometimes you just have to let go and start over either with her with a clean slate, or just chalk it up to 'people I have known". I've posted this before and I really believe this: "people come into our lives for a reason, a season or a lifetime". It is hard to cut emotional relationships, but at the expense of your own mental health - it is not worth it to hang onto something that drags you down. Maybe in the past there were great times - and there probably were - but now, not so great and life is too short, my dear friend Begonia, to go thru crap at the expense of making someone else feel better. Now is your time to shine! Enjoy your beautiful new home, new decor, new furniture (I know - its all in the process of happening, but YKWIM! ) and don't let you or your son be tainted by her ugliness.

Best is to definitely take those few days to calm yourself and then tell her you just need a break from her (or whatever words are best suited to what you'd like to say). If you don't say anything to her, she'll never know the extent to which she has hurt you and your son and she'll just start it again in the future.

I've been thru this with FRENEMIES too and it sucks - BIG TIME! - but eventually, your own growth is worth way more than letting them walk over you! I would love to hang with you and drink tea and chat for days!! I think you are awesome and really enjoy connecting with you! If you don't feel that from her or towards her, she's not worth the fretting over...

Ok - now I'm going to read the thread and realize how WAY off base I was because you have made up just this morning!!!

 

[GoldFish8]

I'm sorry you have to go through this. It can be very frustrating and sad, I know from personal experience. It sounds to me like she is unhappy in live and jealous of you and even your son (he got higher honors than her boy...).

Anyway, my advice is this.

In every relationship (ok most relationships) fights can happen because people are still testing their boundaries and what is deemed as "ok" or acceptable with the other person. So, when one person crosses over that line of what is acceptable there will likely be confrontation, then there comes the resolution. Then, hopefully that line wont be crossed again. I think most people know out of common sense and common decency that insulting someone else's child is NOT OK. But, I think your friend may be a little bit challenged in that department. In your case since you hadnt really spoken up the other times she said something snarky about your son, she probably thinks this is OK.

The question you should ask yourself is this - Is she worth going through fights and confrontation for? because from the sounds of it, if you want to remain friends with her, and not be a 'doormat' in the relationship you will be going through a lot of confrontations in the future. Is she worth all that future stress and heartache (yes, even in a friendship there can be heartache)? You have to decide.

If she is worth it then I think you will need to have a confrontation (in a mature adult way) about what she did. But,If she is not, then just distance yourself from her because you don't need to cause a scene or confrontation especially considering your son is friends with hers.

Just my two cents. I really hope things work out for you!!

 

[AmeliaG]

Maggie is using you.

Agreed.

 

[fabulousfindk]

ilander, I LOVE your whole response.

esp. the bit about starting every conversation with a goal in mind. I really really try to employ this, as well as first decide whether what I'm about to say will/could have a positive impact. If not, I try not to say it.

I am sorry Begonia. Friendships are so hard and sometimes way more complicated than romantic relationships. It can be hard, but you have to weigh the pros and cons of keeping her in your life in general. Also, if it were me, I'd probably just ask her an open-ended question, like, "Where is this sudden change coming from?" "What is it that you're feeling that makes you say those things about my son?" Leave it up to her.

 

[JewelFreak]

iLander is such a wise girl. I would always follow her advice & it's good in this case too. It's sad to lose a friendship as old as yours, but on the other hand, you are at the least a punching bag for her & at most, a subject of envy re Sam. Sometimes it's better to take past good times as the gift they are & let the connection go. You're smart to give yourself time to digest how you feel & how you'll react -- decide what your feeling is & then don't waver. Good luck!

 

[missy]

Write down everything she said that bothered you.

Then call her back.

First thing you say is "I'm returning your call, in the hopes that you called to apologize."

She'll say "For what?" if she's an idiot.

Then you say "I thought you said some very rude things about my son." Then list them out for her. Do not give her a chance to interrupt. If she does, just say "Sorry, no through yet," and continue. Then close with "I felt that was all very hurtful and compromises our friendship."

Then see what she has to say for herself. She will start to make excuses for herself, but you need to keep repeating "But I felt it was rude" or critical or whatever. If she starts talking about your son's voice on her computer, then say "Well, it's a two-way street. Your son's voice is constantly on my computer as well."

If she does manage to grow up and say "sorry" then you say "Thank you, I accept. Have you finished your Christmas shopping?" and change the subject. To sound more confident, stand up while you are on the phone, your voice comes out stronger. It's an old trick.

If you are truly considering dumping this friend (frankly I think you should) then you have nothing to lose. She sounds shallow and self-centered. She uses people, as she did the wealthy woman. In my day, we called that a fair-weather friend. Not actually worth having one of those, but you can treat her briskly and with distance, so as not to upset the kids.

ETA: Whenever you start a conversation, begin with a goal in mind, and stick to it.

I agree completely! Especially about the dumping part! Begonia, I am so sorry you are dealing with such a toxic individual.

 

[junebug17]

Ilander's advice is so spot-on Begonia, I would basically just do everything she said in her post. The line " I'm returning your call, in the hope that you called to apologize" is awesome.

Sorry you have to deal with this - you sound like a really nice person and you don't deserve to be treated this way. I'm thinking you should back away from this woman, she's not a nice person or a true friend - a true friend wouldn't act like this.

 

[NOYFB]

What a tough situation to be in. I'm so sorry. I have had a few friendships through the years that I have had to let go, just because of the emotional stress it was having on me. To me, friendship is not supposed to make you feel bad. There is one friend that I had a falling out with a few years ago, we worked it out a few months later, then just a couple of months ago it went bad again, so I ended it for good.

I don't have any sound advice for you, as everyone is different. But, I know for me, and my sanity, saying "See ya!" is the best option.

Hugs, honey!

 

[decodelighted]

The cyclical nature of this makes me wonder if there's something a bit off with her. It makes no sense to be upset with your son for his voice ringing through their house. It's HER son that doesn't have headphones! Buy some friggin headphones for him, Crazy Lady. So her complaints don't seem *rational*.

Is it possible to detach emotionally from her -- but remain acquaintances & enjoy a laugh or two from time to time. But REFUSE to accept any abuse? You absolutely do not have to stay on the phone with someone who is yelling at you!

Gah! Frustrating!

 

[VapidLapid]

Any chance you can just become friends with the wealthy lady across town?

 

[Begonia]

Okay, now I'm laughing. That wasn't vapid at all

Gawd, isn't it good to laugh?

Can I just say I am do dang glad I wrote in and for all of your replies. I got something from each and everyone of them, and that ain't me just blowing sunshine up yer...

There was an element of rationality missing from the conversation which is so unlike her. She does sound stressed on several levels, and I can understand being at the end of your rope. Usually I just get snappy and then tell the person to ignore me (and tell them why). The aggression and direct shots were...unexpected.

ilander - my mum would have loved you. Would have said " that girl shoots from the hip". Your response opened up a whole new way of responding for me. Thank you.

deco - the headphone bit left me confused. Like that's my fault? Yes, I do believe I will have to detach (or sever) the relationship. Fool me once...

Lil M - always and undercurrent of...slight fear that she will go off, or hurt me again. Thanks for the hugs, I actually cried about this and then got annoyed with myself for crying.

J-bug - wise bug.

missy - toxic...another thing to think about.

J-freak - It is sad isn't it?

fabfind - I like the open ended question idea. I would like to hear from her where she is coming from. What might have prompted this.

Amelia -

Goldfish - Good counsel. I'm sleeping on it for a few more nights methinks.

E - please, please, please come for tea and bring all of the ladies and lads with you I didn't deal with her snarks toward Sam right from the get-go. I knew that was going to lead to bigger problems. I was intimidated by her and sometimes have a problem speaking up to certain people. Strangely I have no problem with others. Mostly people I am close to is where I have the problem. I'm Miss Assertive with others. Common I'm sure. I will absolutely have to deal with this no matter what the outcome. She must be told so that she has an opportunity to learn (whether she does or not). I'll have an opportunity to speak up. Thanks again E. My peach.

lyra - life has been very difficult for her and my husband said the same thing. I'm collateral damage. I think this goes far beyond the normal growing pains of a friendship. Far beyond.

Sarahb - Of course you are right. I shouldn't make excuses for her...

pgypsy - ahhh, you know all about this then. I hate the competition and I avoided several opportunities to set up boundaries. Sigh. Well now the problem is much bigger than it was at the beginning...

mogster - yes absolutely. She can be so lovely, and I haven't seen this side of her in many months. We were getting better and better all of the time if you ask me. Thinking about it though, we weren't doing as well as I thought if I was letting the snarks go, and she was making them.

kitten - absolutely. Called two other people today to reconnect. Good advice.

150 - yes, the kids. Boy I could have called her up and torn her a new...was that my outside voice? I don't want this to turn into WW3 for my boy Sam at school. Sleep, reflect, reflect, sleep some more. Oh damn, now I have the Mother of all colds. Can't sleep.

Bloom - right you are. Leave the dang kids out of it. What the cluck?

Sometimes I gotta get others advice, as I'm so far in this I can't see clearly. I'm starting to realize some stuff after reading your insights. Hard stuff to realize. My words are failing me now...damn cold is making me tired. I guess what I am realizing is that sometimes she is quite abusive toward me and mine in her words. Subtle but still it's there. Now I have to think long and hard about where to go with this knowledge. Hubbie told me not put my trust in her again.

 

[Dreamer_D]

End the "friendship". It sounds like it does not give you much. And then think about why you kept someone like that in your life for so long.

 

[Kaleigh]

Expiration date is expired. Love the advice in this thread, especially about boundaries. Life is short, and people that add negativity are not adding anything to you going forward...

 

[HollyS]

Begonia, my dear . . .

Two words of wisdom: Dump. Her.

Life is too short. Our time is too precious.

She is unhappy, and only too glad to share. Let her go 'share' with someone else.

 

[Begonia]

Dreamer - at first I got really pissed at your comment about thinking about why I keep someone like this in my life for so long. Then the anger got my attention. Anger covers up a lot of uncomfortable feelings...anyway, I'm not pissed at the comment anymore. Ah ha moment.

Kaleigh - life is too short for so many things. I say that everyday: life is too short for shitty coffee, life is too short uncomfortable shoes. Looks like I gotta kick it up a notch for the life is too short wisdom...2 more people in my life have just lost the battle with cancer. Life is too short.

Holly - she is unhappy. I could always see it, but the breadth and scope of her unhappiness is clearer to me now. I can't take that on anymore.

Gonna go hit the sack, I suspect strep throat at this point.

'Night ladies. Many thanks...