Local stores service vs. online vendor?

[rleejones]

I just went to a local diamond vendor and spoke with a sales lady there who was very helpful.

They have a large selection of diamonds and she said that we could trade the ring in at full value for something bigger and better. Also, they will set it at no additional charge.

Finally, I could ship the ring to a family member out of state to avoid the sales tax. There prices are slightly more expensive than online but I''m not sure I can beat the service.

Any suggestions

 

[windowshopper]

confused: did you just buy a stone from somehwere else and now you want to trade it in?

 

[rleejones]

No, but I''m still looking at diamonds and comparing service. She just mentioned that in the future we could trade our purchase in and be credited all of what we paid for a new purchase

 

[windowshopper]

you know i love pricescope but there are some real benefits to an established business (store location) and if the prices arent too much higher i think it could just fine if they can offer you want you want in a stone.

One thing that I am sure is not the norm but I feel compelled to mention: several years ago i bought a very expensive large diamond from a jeweler in Lynchburg VA (Bowen Jewelry Company-do not go there!). They told me that at any time i could trade in my stone in for the full purchase price towards another diamond as long as i spent more on the new stone. About 1 1/2 years ago I told them I wanted to do that and for about one year I called and emailed saying I am ready when should I send you my ring etc etc. In the meantime the lopsided mounting they had made me (which required three repairs over 5 years) cracked and had to be tossed. They completely blew me off. Refused to return my calls or emails and eventually I sold it on my own at a substantial loss. When trying to sell it I since discovered that it was actually a very badly cut stone and I am sure they felt they couldnt sell it so they decided to ignore me. SO make sure you get it in a written contract!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JohnQuixote]

Hi rleejones,

One of our regluars, D Riley, put together a comparison of vendors represented here (both online and B&M). Upgrade policies are listed. This, and other things in the FAQ section might be helpful in your quest for answers.

Vendor Comparison

 

[solange]

Date: 12/12/2004 5:42:35 PM
Author: JohnQuixote
Hi rleejones,

One of our regluars, D Riley, put together a comparison of vendors represented here (both online and B&M). Upgrade policies are listed. This, and other things in the FAQ section might be helpful in your quest for answers.

Vendor Comparison

D.Riley did not mention that you can see Whiteflash stones at an independent appraiser as well as at Whiteflash. I saw mine at an appraiser in NYC and then had it sent back to Whiteflash for setting.
I did not pay Whiteflash until Brian sent me pictures of the set stone. I paid and received the ring the next morning.

 

[Superidealist]

I did not mention it because it was not mentioned on their website when the comparison was made. The comparison was based solely on stated policies on the various vendors'' websites rather than on heresay or individual cases that may or may not reflect official policy. If there have been changes made that vendors would like included in the comparison, they need only send me a private message and I will edit the original post to reflect the change as soon as I am able.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 12/12/2004 6:26:51 PM
Author: solange

D.Riley did not mention that you can see Whiteflash stones at an independent appraiser as well as at Whiteflash. I saw mine at an appraiser in NYC and then had it sent back to Whiteflash for setting.
I did not pay Whiteflash until Brian sent me pictures of the set stone. I paid and received the ring the next morning.

Solange,

This is true for many dealers, both online and on the street. It's a common request for the dealer to send the stone to an independent appraiser and make the completion of the deal contingent on their findings. Most diamond dealers will agree to this under the appropriate conditions. Many do it regularly. It's a little difficult to include this in the store policies because a sensible dealer will not agree to ship their valuable goods to just anyone who claims to be an appraiser and thinking appraisers will not agree to receive a shipment from an unknown supplier. There is just too much at risk and they must each assess the merits of the other before this can happen.




Neil Beaty,
GG ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[JohnQuixote]

This is something we offer but it's not listed in such a manner that DR would have seen it.

As a part of every package, we include the services of an independent appraiser in the Houston area (who issues a letter of verification confirming that the weight/color/clarity & all measurements match the original grading document, listing laser inscriptions where they apply, setting details & approximate retail replacement value).

As Solange mentioned, upon request we will gladly send items to a qualified independent appraiser of the customer's choice (it must be one who does not sell diamonds). The customer hires the services of that appraiser. We provide 1 shipping. As a result, we have relationships with many of the appraisers here on PriceScope.

DR, if you would like to edit to include this info, please feel free to do so. Solange - thank you for the mention.

 

[perry]

RleeJones:

Please be advised that the store cannot legally ship your ring out of state to someone else so that you avoid paying sales taxes.

There have been a number of fraud cases like that prosecuted in the larger cities.

In addition, your state law requires you to pay the sales taxes even if the store does not collect them, which also applies to any out of state purchases you have shipped (internet, catalog) to you.

Most states have not been enforcing that, but if you get audited for state taxes they are starting to look for it, and once they nail you for that (fraud) they really dig into you.

The federal government passes a short term law preventing states from forcing internet vendors from collecting sales taxes (although some do), but it does not mean that you do not owe them: The internet exemption will probably end in a year or so as the states are rapidely standardizing tax classifications and perfecting the software to collect sales taxes from all vendors.
How much integrity does the store have, how much do you have, and how does that affect your long term life and actions?

Perry

 

[Superidealist]

Date: 12/12/2004 7:54:41 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

DR, if you would like to edit to include this info, please feel free to do so.

Again, the criterion for inclusion in the comparison is that it be stated on the website. If you would like to add this as a reply to the original post, though, I'm certain many would find it helpful.

 

[nicknomo]

Perry, do you work for the IRS?

 

[nicknomo]

They have a large selection of diamonds and she said that we could trade the ring in at full value for something bigger and better. Also, they will set it at no additional charge.

Upgrade policies are usually a "bad deal". I''m sure there are some good ones out there, however the truth is that they want to make money off of you. They usually either give you much less for your diamond then what it''s worth, and make you buy a MUCH bigger diamond.. Instead of making it so it benefits the customer, they make it so they capitalize on you twice.

 

[perry]

To Nicknomo, and the others wondering:

No.

The only relationship I have with the local, state, and federal taxing agencies is the amount of money that I pay in taxes. Perhaps when the amount gets high enough you start paying attention to what happens with tax laws.

However, that is not really it: I guess I've learned a couple of things over the years. When stores start to openly violate the law on one thing - what else are they not doing right.

I also have a small internet based side business (outside of my dayjob - I work in a power plant), and do watch what is happening.

I have also learned, often the hard way, that the same lesson applies to people; and in the end, I have found the best success is with people (personal and business) are those with good ethics. I have personally learned the lessons of the value of being a person of integrity, and have watched many other people flounder into trouble - and not be able to get out of it because they did not have such integrity (even if they were telling the truth). Who would you be willing to go out on a limb for. Someone who you know "cuts corners" and you are not sure if they are telling you all the truth for the situtaion - or someone who you know for sure is telling you the truth.

I learned long ago that it pays to have a good generall understanding of the legal system and the laws - so you know what can be done legally, and what to avoid (even the minorest brush with the law is costly).

In the case of a local stores. They cannot legally avoid collecting sales taxes from an instate customer by shipping it to an out of state address. Should the store get caught (and it is likely they will - evenetually) then they and likely all of their customers will get audited. You don't want to be there, and I doubt that RleeJones wants to be there either.

In the case of the federal internet vendor exemption from collecting state sales taxes. It will probably vanish in about 2006. The states have been standadizing their sales tax systems (about half have now adopted the standard system, and the other half has the legislation pending). There is also pilot business "collection" software being used to collect sales taxes for the states by one of the vendors who does a lot of internet business and collects sales taxes.

As far as my advice. If I see someone headed in the wrong direction I feel that it is my duty as a good citizen to tap them on the shoulder - so to say - and point out what I see happening. Now some people get upset, but far more thank me. This is also a part of freindship as well.

Wouldn't you want someone to advise you if you were heading into likely trouble - at least enough to get your attention so you could consider what you are doing.

Love of your fellow man, and caring is what makes this world go round.

Best of life to you.

Perry

 

[solange]

People will either abide by the laws as to out of state shipments or not do so. I do not think sermons by a stranger will have any influence.
We pay an accountant to do our taxes and determine what is taxable and what is exempt. I am sure that many on Pricescope do the same but for those who choose to do othrwise, this is between them and the IRS.

 

[solange]

deleted Double post by mistake

 

[perry]

Solange:

You are right that some people will do whatever they want regardless of the advice - even great advice - that people give them (close freinds to total strangers).

However, I am bothered by your assumption that people will not take the advice of strangers. This entire forum - and many others like it - is built on the concept that people study the advice of others and make their own choices. In the vast majority of cases we would be considered as "strangers." People here spend hundreds to tens of thousands of dollars based on such advice, and others ignore it.

I know there are people who have read what I have written who have paused to think about it, and the implications.

One of the things that I really scratch my head on in regards to this forum: So many people on this forum want the jewelers to have the highest integrity when grading and pricing their diamonds and other jewelry, and when dealing with them; but then ask them to give up that integrity on the back end. So if they are willing - even promoting - up front their lack of integrity on the back end so that you "get" a better spot price; what makes you sure that you are getting what they claimed up front.

Currently there is a federal law that states that out of state vendors cannot be forced by the states to collect sales taxes for people who live out of state. Thus, many internet and catalog dealers are acting in accordance with the law, and with integrity, by choosing not to collect state sales taxes for people who live out of their state.

There are many local jewelers and internete vendors who have integrity. It is our choice to choose to deal with those vendors, or to chose to deal with one who has demonstrated to you a lack of integrity. In the later case I fail to see how a person can then complain about not getting what they thought they were getting, or fail to recieve "good" service if they chose the later.

More to the point, I cannot see how a person who chooses to persue the specific option presented at the start of this thread can complain when they get investigated, audited, found gulity of tax fraud - and actively participating in tax fraud, get all their other years taxes fully audited, etc. All of this is most likely at least a 4 digiet figure, and could extend well into 5 digets. For some people it would cost them their job as well.

Of course the issue of quality of goods and services does not just apply to the stores, but also to the people who also demonstrate a lack of integrity. Most commonly in what happens in their life.

If you feel that my pointing out that integrity counts in such a transaction is sermonizing: I''m OK with that.

You seem to feel OK paying higher taxes because other people cheat on their taxes such that the rest of us have to make up the difference. I''m OK with the fact that you feel that you do not mind paying such higher taxes. Personally, I do mind.

Perry

 

[denverappraiser]

Perry,

I hate to take you on with this issue on because I agree with your position but there are a few points that I think should be clarified.

1) Internet and other dealers who sell to out-of-state and out-of-country customers without collecting sales and similar taxes are not making a choice. They are not able to collect tax if they wanted to and it would be a serious problem if they tried.

2) Sales/Use tax is a tax imposed on the customer, not on either the merchant or the carrier. The tax is imposed by the local authorities at the point of ownership transfer. If the customer requests that the merchandise be shipped to an out-of-state address, and it remains the property of the jeweler until the delivery actually takes place, the taxing jurisdiction will be at the delivery address. Those authorities are welcome to try to collect their taxes as they wish but, as with the above, the seller is not permitted to collect tax unless they have a ‘presence’ in that state.

3) The federal internet exemption restricts the taxing authorities of the various states. It has no direct effect on either merchants or consumers.
Neil Beaty
Independent Appraisal in Denver