John McCain''s Rage - Not Presidential!!!

[E B]

Date: 10/9/2008 8:53:49 PM
Author: luckystar112

Date: 10/9/2008 8:14:31 PM

Author: decodelighted

SUCH a stable bunch o''fans McCain/Palin seem to be attracting. Geez.

Coming from the epitome of class herself.

Those who live in glass houses.......

Are we resorting to personal attacks, now?

 

[AGBF]

I''m trying to do some research...as much as motherhood allows tonight. I am trying to avoid the less credible sources. This source seems entirely unimpeachable by its very nature...and Mr. McCain looks extraordinarily uncouth! He is behaving like a positive lout, not like a professional or a U.S. Senator. This exchange is not between Mr. McCain and his wife; this one is public and he is representing Arizona and the United States.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwTKM_u-7j4&NR=1


Deborah

 

[E B]

AG,

I believe that video is a fake. The subtitles and *bleeps* have been added where there are no curse words to cover. He is quite angry, though, possibly unnecessarily so.

 

[purrfectpear]

I can''t believe some of you are actually getting snarky with each other over whether Mac has a hair trigger temper. He even admits he has issues. Is this worth being mean to each other?

 

[AGBF]

Date: 10/9/2008 9:09:23 PM
Author: EBree

I believe that video is a fake. The subtitles and *bleeps* have been added where there are no curse words to cover. He is quite angry, though, possibly unnecessarily so.

Thanks, EBree, the idea of a fake video never occurred to me!!!

Deb

 

[ksinger]

And I admit to being utterly weary of ALL of this...the Obama innuendos, connections, who he at lunch with, versus hothead, foul-mouthed McCain. I''m still voting for Obama, and those who are voting for McCain will vote for him. All this accomplishes nothing at this point.

I''m more worried about the economy right now than anything else... I don''t envy either one of them, to inherit this incredible mess.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 10/9/2008 9:01:47 PM
Author: EBree

Date: 10/9/2008 8:53:49 PM
Author: luckystar112

Date: 10/9/2008 8:14:31 PM

Author: decodelighted

SUCH a stable bunch o''fans McCain/Palin seem to be attracting. Geez.

Coming from the epitome of class herself.

Those who live in glass houses.......

Are we resorting to personal attacks, now?

Well who was she talking about? Did she expect us "unstable" folks not to respond? I was just about to edit my post but I guess it''s too late for that. I stooped to her level.

 

[AGBF]

I found some more food for thought. I am going back to study it. I am posting the link for anyone else who would like to join me.

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977250105

This link will take you to a site where the incident that shows up on the videotape (whether it was doctored or not) is discussed and the issue of the sister of the POW who was backhanded by Senator McCain is discussed.

Karen, you are not required to read this! I understand that you are interested in the economy. My husband works at the Fed, however. After our phone calls all day and our discussions at the dinner table, I am glad to discuss something besides the financial crisis before I go to bed!

Deb

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 10/9/2008 9:26:20 PM
Author: luckystar112

Date: 10/9/2008 9:01:47 PM
Author: EBree

Date: 10/9/2008 8:53:49 PM
Author: luckystar112

Date: 10/9/2008 8:14:31 PM
Author: decodelighted
SUCH a stable bunch o'fans McCain/Palin seem to be attracting. Geez.

Coming from the epitome of class herself. Those who live in glass houses.......

Are we resorting to personal attacks, now?

Well who was she talking about? Did she expect us 'unstable' folks not to respond? I was just about to edit my post but I guess it's too late for that. I stooped to her level.

ummmmm ... pssst, Luckystar, I wasn't talking about you or people on Pricescope. I was referring to the CRAZIES in the McCain/Palin rallies -- yelling "kill him" & "terrorist" about Obama. You just snipped that part out of my post. Conveniently.

I think the level you stoop to speaks for itself.

ETA: Ah lookie, my original post IN CONTEXT "I can't wait to vote for "that one". If some right-wing crazy doesn't follow through with ever louder threats to "kill him". SUCH a stable bunch o'fans McCain/Palin seem to be attracting. Geez."

 

[luckystar112]

Well if that's what you meant Deco, I apologize. I took your comment to reference us being in "denial" due to not seeing any video clips of McCain slapping/shoving/pushing/whatever someone, and in that sense, I took your comment to be directed at all of us supporters. I retract my statement since you are saying you meant otherwise.




ETA: Actually now YOU'RE leaving out a snippet.

The beginning of your post, which is what I thought you were referencing.
"Don't bother ... O'Reilly himself could show up beaten up, say McCain clocked him & unless the beating was on live television ... not cutting through the denial."

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Any fan of That One''s tax plan is proof enough of mental instability to me

 

[swimmer]

Electoral College predictions are ALL at 300 or more for Obama!

Only need 270 to win. Four weeks till the election....

 

[decodelighted]

This is silliness. My post was a train of thought. Yes, I started out speaking about this thread in general. i.e. -- there''s no convincing the faithful of his rage being a problem, no matter the proof. Then I stated MY OWN preference: Obama. And that I''d vote for him unless some crazy killed him, as they''ve been threatening to do lately ... weird how so many crazies are showing up for McCain/Palin!

That was the gist. I haven''t heard ANY such threats towards McCain or Palin at rallies for the Democrats. And if any were made I''m pretty darn sure Obama or Biden would shut them down for even suggesting such a thing. Which PALIN did not do.

But it hardly matters. The most important thing is that somehow I managed to smoke out how you *really* feel about me and my "class", Luckystar. As if it was a mystery. HA!

 

[E B]

Date: 10/9/2008 9:44:25 PM
Author: swimmer
Electoral College predictions are ALL at 300 or more for Obama!

Only need 270 to win. Four weeks till the election....

Even Rove has Obama at 277. 538 has him at 347.6.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 10/9/2008 9:29:05 PM
Author: AGBF

I found some more food for thought. I am going back to study it. I am posting the link for anyone else who would like to join me.

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977250105

This link will take you to a site where the incident that shows up on the videotape (whether it was doctored or not) is discussed and the issue of the sister of the POW who was backhanded by Senator McCain is discussed.

Reading what was on the site above, including the comments of posters, led me back to YouTube. You were right, EBree, that the YouTube video for which I posted a link above-the one supposedly showing John McCain swearing during a Senate hearing- was doctored. A poster (a Vietnam vet) provided another link, however, to an undoctored and far longer version of that same testimony. In it John McCain didn't curse, but his rage was far worse, far more destructive, because the video was so prolonged and you could see the poor woman testifying seriously for so long. The Vietnam veteran who had posted on the website I just read said that he supported Obama because McCain really didn't care about veterans (I agree). He said that all one had to do was to watch this video to see how McCain acted. I have to agree that it doesn't need the curse words. The Vietnam vet and I agree. McCain still looks like an absolute cad and a lout!!! This woman's brother was an MIA, for God's sake!!! The link is below.

Obama has chaired a Senate committee (or subcommittee) on veterans' affairs and been very active in trying to get to know the challenges that veterans face. As the Vietnam vet on the website pointed out, Obama has voted for the funds for veterans. McCain has not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CazKanlYDg


Deborah

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 10/9/2008 9:46:21 PM
Author: decodelighted
This is silliness. My post was a train of thought. Yes, I started out speaking about this thread in general. i.e. -- there''s no convincing the faithful of his rage being a problem, no matter the proof. Then I stated MY OWN preference: Obama. And that I''d vote for him unless some crazy killed him, as they''ve been threatening to do lately ... weird how so many crazies are showing up for McCain/Palin!

That was the gist. I haven''t heard ANY such threats towards McCain or Palin at rallies for the Democrats. And if any were made I''m pretty darn sure Obama or Biden would shut them down for even suggesting such a thing. Which PALIN did not do.

But it hardly matters. The most important thing is that somehow I managed to smoke out how you *really* feel about me and my ''class'', Luckystar. As if it was a mystery. HA!

I apologized, you don''t have to accept it.


The thing about the threats though...have you seen the video? I can''t tell if Palin even heard the comment. If she did she should have addressed it, but it''s not clear.
Also, apparently it isn''t clear if it was directed at Ayers or Obama, but there is a probe into the incident. They aren''t even sure if the words are definitely "kill him".
Heck, at this point they aren''t even sure if it was a McCain/Palin supporter!

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 10/9/2008 9:57:28 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 10/9/2008 9:29:05 PM

Author: AGBF


I found some more food for thought. I am going back to study it. I am posting the link for anyone else who would like to join me.


http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977250105


This link will take you to a site where the incident that shows up on the videotape (whether it was doctored or not) is discussed and the issue of the sister of the POW who was backhanded by Senator McCain is discussed.

Reading what was on the site above, including the comments of posters, led me back to YouTube. You were right, EBree, that the YouTube video for which I posted a link above-the one supposedly showing John McCain swearing during a Senate hearing- was doctored. A poster (a Vietnam vet) provided another link, however, to an undoctored and far longer version of that same testimony. In it John McCain didn''t curse, but his rage was far worse, far more destructive, because the video was so prolonged and you could see the poor woman testifying seriously for so long. The Vietnam veteran who had posted on the website I just read said that he supported Obama because McCain really didn''t care about veterans (I agree). He said that all one had to do was to watch this video to see how McCain acted. I have to agree that it doesn''t need the curse words. The Vietnam vet and I agree. McCain still looks like an absolute cad and a lout!!! This woman''s brother was an MIA, for God''s sake!!! The link is below.


Obama has chaired a Senate committee (or subcommittee) on veterans'' affairs and been very active in trying to get to know the challenges that veterans face. As the Vietnam vet on the website pointed out, Obama has voted for the funds for veterans. McCain has not.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CazKanlYDg



Deborah

Deborah, the link above is the one I posted on the previous page. This of course made me wonder why so many Vietnam Vets and their families had a problem with McCain in the first place. I discovered this: http://www.vvof.org/mccain_hides.htm

 

[AGBF]

Thanks, Moon. It sounded like what had been described in the discussion you all had, but I hadn''t seen it!


Deb

 

[ksinger]

Date: 10/9/2008 9:29:05 PM
Author: AGBF

I found some more food for thought. I am going back to study it. I am posting the link for anyone else who would like to join me.

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977250105

This link will take you to a site where the incident that shows up on the videotape (whether it was doctored or not) is discussed and the issue of the sister of the POW who was backhanded by Senator McCain is discussed.

Karen, you are not required to read this! I understand that you are interested in the economy. My husband works at the Fed, however. After our phone calls all day and our discussions at the dinner table, I am glad to discuss something besides the financial crisis before I go to bed!

Deb

Rest assured Deb, that I DON''T read any of it. I was merely making a comment. Guess I shouldn''t have.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 10/9/2008 10:12:07 PM
Author: ksinger
Rest assured Deb, that I DON''T read any of it. I was merely making a comment. Guess I shouldn''t have.

Comment away! That''s why we are all here, kiddo!

Hugs,
Deb

 

[swimmer]

Karen, I think Deborah was trying to shield you from the economic news that is getting everyone down, and that you verbalized in an earlier post.

Actually though, and this was probably heartening only to me, but my BIL is currently long-term institutionalized for some serious emotional issues, and when I went to visit him today he was sort of leading a talk on what all the terms "short selling" and "call buying" and all of that with the other young people who are terribly disturbed. They were all really into it and asking lucid questions. Of course, I''m not well versed in this at all, I tune out when all my family discusses it and go to my non-numerical happy place, so I sat in. My mom told me once that on the day that JFK was shot, the mentally ill patients she was working with were so very clear, like the world had gone so crazy that crazy was suspended and then redefined. Its not quite like that now, and our world will recover, it was not like the innocence lost of JFK''s assassination, but these young people who are normally pretty non-verbal were having an informed conversation about the economy. I was so proud of my bro! just wanted to share...

Of course to get back on track, McCain''s healthcare plan would have BIL on the streets battling his demons with no hospitals or shelters to rely on. So M''s rage is tangential in that I think Sara Palin might actually be better equipped emotionally to being woken up in the middle of the night with a nuclear crisis (kids get you used to being woken up without flying into a rage right?) But poor thing, would she know what the issue was about? I thought M''s rage was on display in the last debate. He looked like a little worn out terrier at the end. Not able to look Obama in the eye, well too short to do that, and not able to say his name?

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 10/9/2008 10:11:55 PM
Author: AGBF




Thanks, Moon. It sounded like what had been described in the discussion you all had, but I hadn't seen it!



Deb

Yeah, but apparently it's not a very credible source! I suppose the link I just posted isn't either, it's just on a veteran's website, we know they aren't credible either. The article is very long but worth reading completely. Here is the part involving Ms. Alfond:

McCain stood out because he always showed up for the committee hearings where witnesses were going to talk about specific pieces of evidence. He would belittle and berate these witnesses, questioning their patriotism and otherwise scoffing at their credibility. All of this is on record in the National Archives.

Confrontation with witness

One such witness was Dolores Apodaca Alfond, chairwoman of the National Alliance of Families, an all-volunteer MIA organization. Her pilot brother, Capt. Victor J. Apodaca, out of the Air Force Academy, was shot down over Dong Hoi, North Vietnam, in the early evening of June 8, 1967. At least one person in the two-man plane survived. Beeper signals from a pilot’s distress radio were picked up by overhead helicopters, but the cloud cover was too heavy to go in. Hanoi has recently turned over some bone fragments that are supposed to be Apodaca’s. The Pentagon first declared the fragments to be animal bones. But now it is telling the family — verbally — that they came from the pilot. But the Pentagon, for unexplained reasons, will not put this in writing, which means Apodaca is still unaccounted for. Also the Pentagon refuses to give Alfond a sample of the fragments so she can have testing done by an independent laboratory.

Alfond’s testimony, at a hearing of the POW/MIA committee Nov. 11, 1992, was revealing. She pleaded with the committee not to shut down in two months, as scheduled, because so much of its work was unfinished. Also, she was critical of the committee, and in particular Kerry and McCain, for having “discredited the overhead satellite symbol pictures, arguing there is no way to be sure that the [distress] symbols were made by U.S. POWs.” She also criticized them for similarly discounting data from special sensors, shaped like a large spike with an electronic pod and an antenna, that were airdropped to stick in the ground along the Ho Chi Minh trail.

These devices served as motion detectors, picking up passing convoys and other military movements, but they also had rescue capabilities. Specifically, someone on the ground — a downed airman or a prisoner on a labor detail — could manually enter data into the sensor pods. Alfond said the data from the sensor spikes, which was regularly gathered by Air Force jets flying overhead, had showed that a person or persons on the ground had manually entered into the sensors — as U.S. pilots had been trained to do — “no less than 20 authenticator numbers that corresponded exactly to the classified authenticator numbers of 20 U.S. POWs who were lost in Laos.”

Other than the panel’s second co-chairman, Sen. Bob Smith, R-N.H., not a single committee member attended this public hearing. But McCain, having been advised of Alfond’s testimony, suddenly rushed into the room to confront her. His face angry and his voice very loud, he accused her of making “allegations … that are patently and totally false and deceptive.” Making a fist, he shook his index finger at her and said she had insulted an emissary to Vietnam sent by President Bush. He said she had insulted other MIA families with her remarks. And then he said, through clenched teeth: “And I am sick and tired of you insulting mine and other people’s [patriotism] who happen to have different views than yours.”

Brought to tears

By this time, tears were running down Alfond’s cheeks. She reached into her handbag for a handkerchief. She tried to speak: “The family members have been waiting for years — years! And now you’re shutting down.” He kept interrupting her. She tried to say, through tears, that she had issued no insults. He kept talking over her words. He said she was accusing him and others of “some conspiracy without proof, and some cover-up.” She said she was merely seeking “some answers. That is what I am asking.” He ripped into her for using the word “fiasco.” She replied: “The fiasco was the people that stepped out and said we have written the end, the final chapter to Vietnam.” “No one said that,” he shouted. “No one said what you are saying they said, Ms. Alfond.” And then, his face flaming pink, he stalked out of the room, to shouts of disfavor from members of the audience.

As with most of McCain’s remarks to Alfond, the facts in his closing blast at her were incorrect. Less than three weeks earlier, on Oct. 23, 1992, in a ceremony in the White House Rose Garden, President Bush — with John McCain standing beside him — said: “Today, finally, I am convinced that we can begin writing the last chapter in the Vietnam War.”

The committee did indeed, as Alfond said they planned to do, shut down two months after the hearing.
--------------------------

What on Earth is he afraid of? Why won't he push for this information to be declassified rather than making it harder for people to gain access?!?

 

[Anna0499]

McCain has a temper - wow - newsflash. Really, who is changing their vote at this point? Anyone on PS that has done their research on both candidates knows all about McCain''s temper and Obama''s associations. No one is "flip-flopping" at this point so to post link upon link of contradictory sources while arguing with each other about which source is better is pointless. The links are good but I have yet to see a PSer switch votes based on a link/thread posted here. These are good topics of discussion but the personal attacks should really be cut out. I also wanted to say that one or two gross words/name-calling said in anger (hearsay at this point unless any of us personally heard it) hardly equals abuse IMHO.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 10/9/2008 11:04:24 PM
Author: IndyGirl22
McCain has a temper - wow - newsflash. Really, who is changing their vote at this point? Anyone on PS that has done their research on both candidates knows all about McCain''s temper and Obama''s associations. No one is ''flip-flopping'' at this point so to post link upon link of contradictory sources while arguing with each other about which source is better is pointless. The links are good but I have yet to see a PSer switch votes based on a link/thread posted here. These are good topics of discussion but the personal attacks should really be cut out. I also wanted to say that one or two gross words/name-calling said in anger (hearsay at this point unless any of us personally heard it) hardly equals abuse IMHO.

I don''t think Deborah posted it to get anyone to change their vote. I think she just wanted to discuss it, see what other people thought about it, etc. I doubt anyone here on ATW is going to change their minds, but we still like to discuss the issues and dramas of this election.

As for one or two name-calling incidents, McCain''s said a lot more than that! And no, I don''t think that comment will change your vote.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 10/10/2008 12:04:25 AM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 10/9/2008 11:04:24 PM
Author: IndyGirl22
McCain has a temper - wow - newsflash. Really, who is changing their vote at this point? Anyone on PS that has done their research on both candidates knows all about McCain's temper and Obama's associations. No one is 'flip-flopping' at this point so to post link upon link of contradictory sources while arguing with each other about which source is better is pointless. The links are good but I have yet to see a PSer switch votes based on a link/thread posted here. These are good topics of discussion but the personal attacks should really be cut out. I also wanted to say that one or two gross words/name-calling said in anger (hearsay at this point unless any of us personally heard it) hardly equals abuse IMHO.

I don't think Deborah posted it to get anyone to change their vote. I think she just wanted to discuss it, see what other people thought about it, etc. I doubt anyone here on ATW is going to change their minds, but we still like to discuss the issues and dramas of this election.

As for one or two name-calling incidents, McCain's said a lot more than that! And no, I don't think that comment will change your vote.

Thing - if you read my entire post you can see that I was obviously NOT talking about Deb. I specifically said that "the links are good" and that "[t]here are good topics of discussion." What I said was pointless was the back and forth posting of contradictory links and snippets and arguing over sources and hearsay statements because at this point no one with concede on such issues and are biased according to their candidate (myself included). As for the one or two names, I was specifically referring to McCain & his wife & someone's reference of it as abuse. I was just stating my opinion that IMHO more is needed before that word is thrown around, having worked with several abused women thru my law school's domestic violence program.

ETA: Just my 0.02...carry on as you wish all!

 

[miraclesrule]

I think it is very well known that John McCain has a knee jerk temper. There is a difference between passion and uncontrolled rage. The difference to me is that one can challenge and express frustration without being hostile and physical and blatently disrespectful. There is definately a way to get fiery with passion and, in some cases, a good does of sarcasm and wit.

I am always impressed with the calm demeanor of Obama though. I would be so much more cutthroat and sarcastic when defending myself, but then again, I am not running for office. I am definately an admirer of those who can control embarassing and unwarranted outburts that leave witnesses feeling extremely uncomfortable. I am not always one of them.

 

[FrekeChild]

http://www.eyesonobama.com/blog/content/id_20167/title_McCains-History-of-Blow-Ups-The-Top-Ten/

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_McCain

http://www.womenforjohnmccain.com/?page_id=39

http://www.spicyviews.com/quotes/10-john-mccain-quotes/

The quote for Domenici was really hard to find until recently (past two months) but it was EVERYWHERE here in NM when he said it.

Some gems from the above sites:

"At least I don''t plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you c***."
Taken from The Real McCain by Cliff Schecter, referring to his wife, Cindy McCain. Overheard by three anonymous reporters during his 1992 senate bid.

"Only an @$$hole would put together a budget like this. I wouldn''t call you an @$$hole unless you really were an @$$hole."
Said to Senator Pete Domenici at a GOP meeting in the fall of 1999.

“My anger didn’t help my campaign. It didn’t help. People don’t like angry candidates very much.”
~ John McCain

“My temper has often been both a matter of public speculation and personal concern…I have a temper, to state the obvious, which I have tried to control with varying degrees of success because it does not always serve my interest or the public’s. I have regretted losing my temper on many occasions…I have at times tried to use my anger to incite public outrage. I make no apologies for that…”
~ Senator John McCain in his memoir, “Worth the Fighting For”

“[I''ve] spent the last 10 years doing everything I can to control my temper.”
~ John McCain to USA Today


And with all of the BS about needing "proof" in video form that McCain is a self admitted hothead, I''m going to say I want video proof of Obama being a terrorist, Muslim, his etc etc etc as well. (BTW, he doesn''t have quotes admitting that he''s a Muslim or a terrorist.)

And this also brings to mind the letters from Obama to McCain and back to Obama and Obama''s response that were posted on the Dem thread the other day....

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 10/10/2008 3:07:36 AM
Author: FrekeChild

And with all of the BS about needing 'proof' in video form that McCain is a self admitted hothead, I'm going to say I want video proof of Obama being a terrorist, Muslim, his etc etc etc as well. (BTW, he doesn't have quotes admitting that he's a Muslim or a terrorist.)

THANK YOU!! That's exactly what I was thinking the whole time.

That coupled with questioning sources when I see tons of links from biased and unreliable sources trying to prove false info about Obama that no one complains about.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 10/9/2008 6:24:16 PM
Author: HollyS

Date: 10/9/2008 5:19:35 PM
Author: Ellen

Holly, the woman who said it, who witnessed it (hardly heresay), is a relative of a POW. If anything, shouldn''t there be some kind of kinship/bond between her and McCain, since he was one too? Why would she make this up? I don''t think she is. But if you want to choose to not believe her, to not believe the emotion that is all too apparent in her voice at the utter dismay of how McCain acted, go ahead. Oh wait, you haven''t seen it yet...


In the meantime, I''ll do more digging when I have time. Maybe I can come up with something that will at least give you pause? Nahhhhh.

Well, after all, it was on Oprah, wasn''t it? She would never have an axe to grind in this campaign, would she? Gosh, I better rethink my position of calling for actual proof.

Nahhhhhh.

The video aside for a moment, are you saying that a US Senator, and an ex head of the Rep party (among others) saying they don''t feel he would make a good president/they don''t trust him, means nothing to you? I guess that begs the question, could anyone say anything that might at least make you pause Holly? (don''t answer that)

Back to the video, yes the link was found on Oprah, and on youtube. Here is the link to an article written by a Staff Sgt. It is about the brother of the woman speaking in the video, the woman who witnessed the backhand. This woman is real, she is not made up by a smear campaign. I''m not posting this so much for you as for others. From our previous conversation, I know it will make no difference.

http://www.dm.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123028253


Seems she is the national chairperson for the National Alliance of Families For The Return Of America''s Missing Servicemen.

http://pages.prodigy.net/lynnpowmia/010630.htm


About the missing brother.

http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/a/a020.htm

 

[HollyS]

Date: 10/10/2008 8:55:38 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 10/9/2008 6:24:16 PM
Author: HollyS

Date: 10/9/2008 5:19:35 PM
Author: Ellen

Holly, the woman who said it, who witnessed it (hardly heresay), is a relative of a POW. If anything, shouldn''t there be some kind of kinship/bond between her and McCain, since he was one too? Why would she make this up? I don''t think she is. But if you want to choose to not believe her, to not believe the emotion that is all too apparent in her voice at the utter dismay of how McCain acted, go ahead. Oh wait, you haven''t seen it yet...


In the meantime, I''ll do more digging when I have time. Maybe I can come up with something that will at least give you pause? Nahhhhh.

Well, after all, it was on Oprah, wasn''t it? She would never have an axe to grind in this campaign, would she? Gosh, I better rethink my position of calling for actual proof.

Nahhhhhh.

The video aside for a moment, are you saying that a US Senator, and an ex head of the Rep party (among others) saying they don''t feel he would make a good president/they don''t trust him, means nothing to you? I guess that begs the question, could anyone say anything that might at least make you pause Holly? (don''t answer that)

Back to the video, yes the link was found on Oprah, and on youtube. Here is the link to an article written by a Staff Sgt. It is about the brother of the woman speaking in the video, the woman who witnessed the backhand. This woman is real, she is not made up by a smear campaign. I''m not posting this so much for you as for others. From our previous conversation, I know it will make no difference.

http://www.dm.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123028253


Seems she is the national chairperson for the National Alliance of Families For The Return Of America''s Missing Servicemen.

http://pages.prodigy.net/lynnpowmia/010630.htm


About the missing brother.

http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/a/a020.htm

Ellen, I''m sorry I''ve disappointed you. Apparently, I have. But if you can look at both men, look at their backgrounds, look at the most heinous things people are saying about each of them, (some of those allegations on both side not being true of course), listen to what they are saying, examine what they say their plans are (how exactly is Obama going to get his precious programs in place and with what money, from where), look at who they associate with or are friends with, read their own writings in their own books, look carefully at who exactly got us into this economic debacle (ala Barney Frank), and tune out the singing nutjobs for THE ONE, and you can still say Obama is someone you would consider voting for. . . . well, then, I''m afraid you have disappointed me.

McCain''s ''anger issues'' should be the least of anyone''s concerns. We are in an economic freefall the likes of which has not been seen in our generation. At this point, my retirement is being flushed down the drain with the stock market. My job, working in the automotive industry is at great risk. I personally do not give a good god&%$m if McCain has ever been in a good mood, let alone a foul one. I do care that we have someone in there that had enough sense to at least say "hey, wait a minute" two years ago, even if no one listened. He wasn''t sitting on the sidelines, plotting his career course to the White House.