Is there a way to be formal without a tie?

[luvthemstrawberries]

I guess you would call our wedding formal. The venue is very elegant. My dress is fairly formal - the train is long. My mom''s dress is a cocktail-type dress, I guess (click here to see). The men will be in regular suits (and most likely ties - I can''t imagine my grandpa not wearing a tie), not tuxes.

My question is this... is there a way for FI to fit in here without a tie? As of right now, he''ll wear his black suit and tie like we''ve been planning. But he hates ties. He''s a really broad guy, and he lifts weights and all, so his shoulders and neck are definitely on the broad side. Ties make him so uncomfortable, plus they make him just look uncomfortable. So I''ve always wondered if there''s any solution to that. He was raised and grew up with his dad always making sure he looked sharp - 3 piece suit to church as a kid, always tuck your shirt in, etc. - and he enjoys looking nice. But he hates ties, especially since his body is the build it''s at now. Is there any way that he can still look nice in our wedding, but avoid the tie? He''s got the black suit, and I can probably get him to be open to other colored shirts beside white. He might even be open to a vest. I''m just not well-versed in men''s fashion, so I''m very unqualified to make a call about something like this. If it''s crazy, just let me know - you won''t hurt my feelings.

 

[JulieN]

No.

Formal menswear is very formulaic and any noticeably missing article is going to interfere with that. Perhaps a more casual shoe, or plain pants without a tuxedo stripe would not get noticed, but the absence of neckwear is just too blatant. There is a reason why "white tie"=formal and "black tie"=semiformal. If a tie makes him look uncomfortable, I'm sure he's just wearing something unsuitable for him.

But anyway, he's wearing a black suit with colored shirt? His outfit is already informal, so if he wishes to leave out a tie... I think he would look a bit out of place at your wedding.

This is your wedding, and he can't make the effort to find some fancy silk that would look good on him?

 

[luvthemstrawberries]

Date: 12/9/2009 2:20:12 PM
Author: JulieN
No.

Formal menswear is very formulaic and any noticeably missing article is going to interfere with that. Perhaps a more casual shoe, or plain pants without a tuxedo stripe would not get noticed, but the absence of neckwear is just too blatant. There is a reason why ''white tie''=formal and ''black tie''=semiformal. If a tie makes him look uncomfortable, I''m sure he''s just wearing something unsuitable for him.

But anyway, he''s wearing a black suit with colored shirt? His outfit is already informal, so if he wishes to leave out a tie... I think he would look a bit out of place at your wedding.

This is your wedding, and he can''t make the effort to find some fancy silk that would look good on him?

No, no, no - please don''t think this is him. I''m sorry if it came across that way. This is just me trying to look out for him and make him a little more comfortable, since it''s his wedding day too.

And he''s very traditional with his clothes - he wants to wear a white shirt and plans on that right now. That''s what he''s used to and what he likes with his suit. He''s not even thinking about colored shirts. I said that I would be open to offering him that option if it helped to spice up the outfit a bit or something. It''s not like nobody does that these days - sure, white shirts are the norm, but it''s not like colored shirts are never done.

Also, this is a very small wedding - only 11 guests. It''s not a large, formal, normal-type wedding and reception. It is simply a ceremony followed by appetizers and a nice dinner in the same room as the ceremony. It''s not declared "black tie" or "white tie" or "formal" or anything. My family is wearing nice clothes, but it''s either something they already have, or something they can wear again to church or dinner parties or something.

Anyway, this is all just a curious question anyway. I know it''s off the wall. Just wondering if anyone else has thought the same way.

 

[MagsyMay]

My FI is also very stockily built and athletic, with a huge neck and shoulders as well! He gets called "big guy" a lot, ha, which he is extremely sensitive about! I forget what his neck measurement is, but it's pretty close to the largest normal mens' stores carry, and he manages to find shirts that are comfortable for him to wear, so it can be done! He also likes dressing up though because he is in an Army uniform every day for work so it's fun for him to dress up!

The only other option I can think of is those collarless shirts with a button cover at the top. They used to be popular a while back as tuxedo options. They do run the risk of looking like priest collars though, so that is a consideration. It is still a tight collared shirt though, so the comfort level may not be THAT much different, but what do I know.

If he's not into a traditional necktie, what about an ascot? Again, I have no idea if this is any more comfortable than a normal necktie, but it looks somewhat looser around the neck, so maybe??

ETA: After googling some images, it looks like there's a way to wear an ascot with an open collar. I have no idea if this is like, super GQ or dorky and out-of-style, but it sure looks more comfortable!

 

[JulieN]

An ascot is usually worn with morning dress, but he's wearing a suit, so that wouldn't work unless he is a confident dresser.

Strictly speaking, your wedding is informal. I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that a man cannot be comfortable in a necktie. If the Governor of CA can wear one, your fiance can. The only male that can get away with not wearing a tie to a wedding is an infant or a rebellious teen, IMO. Sorry for sounding so blunt!

Donald Trump ties are widely available at Macys... they are cut with a bit more breadth than other brands, so you might look into them?

 

[luvthemstrawberries]

Date: 12/9/2009 3:01:34 PM
Author: MagsyMay
My FI is also very stockily built and athletic, with a huge neck and shoulders as well! He gets called ''big guy'' a lot, ha, which he is extremely sensitive about! I forget what his neck measurement is, but it''s pretty close to the largest normal mens'' stores carry, and he manages to find shirts that are comfortable for him to wear, so it can be done! He also likes dressing up though because he is in an Army uniform every day for work so it''s fun for him to dress up!

The only other option I can think of is those collarless shirts with a button cover at the top. They used to be popular a while back as tuxedo options. They do run the risk of looking like priest collars though, so that is a consideration. It is still a tight collared shirt though, so the comfort level may not be THAT much different, but what do I know.

If he''s not into a traditional necktie, what about an ascot? Again, I have no idea if this is any more comfortable than a normal necktie, but it looks somewhat looser around the neck, so maybe??

ETA: After googling some images, it looks like there''s a way to wear an ascot with an open collar. I have no idea if this is like, super GQ or dorky and out-of-style, but it sure looks more comfortable!

Haha people have called my FI "big guy" too - I know it''s always meant heartily, but I don''t think he likes it too much. We recently bought him some shirts to fit him better, since his other ones were getting too tight. He really needed an 18 in the neck, but those shirts were HUGE on him - they hung way off his shoulders and flared out around him and made him look so much bigger than he is. It looked terrible. So we went down to a 17 1/2, but that''s the smallest he could go in the neck, which is probably why he looks so uncomfortable. He really needs even smaller through the shoulders and torso. Then again, the sleeves were the shortest he could go in that too. And believe me, we did our research. I learned way more about dress shirts than I ever wanted to - all the different cuts and fits that are out there, the best materials, blah blah blah. We tried to find him the athletic cut, because they''re cut like a V, which is really what he needed - roomy up top, and narrow through the torso - but they''re hard to find unless you order online, which we don''t do a lot. He really could stand to custom order a few shirts to have on hand, but we just don''t dress up much at all, so we have a hard time comitting to spending that much money.

Haha I know I probably look like a dork asking this question, but I honestly wanted to know if there were any styles out there he might could lean towards. It''s not like I''m trying to buck tradition and etiquette or anything, believe me - I grew up smothered in tradition and men with white shirts and ties and freshly shined shoes with their suits.

I do appreciate you looking into some options for me! I researched the ascot a bit, and it sounds like it''s reserved for morning suits. But like I said, I honestly don''t much at all about this stuff. On to do more research...

 

[luvthemstrawberries]

Thanks for the info Julie - I''ll look into those.

 

[MagsyMay]

Morning suits, ha, see what do I know! I know they were making a comeback in popularity recently and don''t seem to only be reserved for morning dress these days. I mean traditionally it looks as though they are to be worn with a tailcoat and waistcoat, and how man men have you seen wearing tailcoats these days! But if your family is traditional when it comes to menswear, well, then I guess the man''s gonna have to wear a tie!

My FI has about a 17.5" neck and 44" shoulders (and he''s only about 5''9", ha, see I told you he was stocky!), and he often has to have shirts tailored to shorten them and narrow the waist. He usually chooses slimmer fit ones, but even those are often too bulky for his taste. Poor guys! Although it''s nice for once for a guy to have fit problems! I swear guys get off easy having measurements for just about anything they buy, yet designer jean makers assume that all women, regardless if they are wearing a size 24 or a size 36 are 5''11"!

 

[luvthemstrawberries]

Date: 12/9/2009 3:45:23 PM
Author: MagsyMay

Morning suits, ha, see what do I know! I know they were making a comeback in popularity recently and don''t seem to only be reserved for morning dress these days. I mean traditionally it looks as though they are to be worn with a tailcoat and waistcoat, and how man men have you seen wearing tailcoats these days! But if your family is traditional when it comes to menswear, well, then I guess the man''s gonna have to wear a tie!

My FI has about a 17.5'' neck and 44'' shoulders (and he''s only about 5''9'', ha, see I told you he was stocky!), and he often has to have shirts tailored to shorten them and narrow the waist. He usually chooses slimmer fit ones, but even those are often too bulky for his taste. Poor guys! Although it''s nice for once for a guy to have fit problems! I swear guys get off easy having measurements for just about anything they buy, yet designer jean makers assume that all women, regardless if they are wearing a size 24 or a size 36 are 5''11''!

Yeah he may just end up wearing the normal tie. Haha as far as he knows right now, that''s what he''s doing anyway! He has no idea I''m looking into this. I can''t remember his chest/shoulder measurements, but they were in the upper 40s. I want to say his chest was 48 inches. And he''s a bout 6''1". Big guy!

Yeah we thought about tailoring his shirts too. Maybe we''ll still do that for the wedding.

 

[nkarma]

It his and your wedding. I would put his comfort over the way things *may* come off unless you are the type to really care about that stuff which it sounds like you don''t. You want him to be and look comfortable. The wedding photos won''t come out as good as they should w/o him comfortable also.

 

[wsu12]

Well, if you asked my husband he would respond "A tuxedo t-shirt"....he thinks he is a funny guy

.

 

[luvthemstrawberries]

Date: 12/9/2009 8:02:56 PM
Author: fsu1227
Well, if you asked my husband he would respond ''A tuxedo t-shirt''....he thinks he is a funny guy

.

Haha!

 

[luvthemstrawberries]

Date: 12/9/2009 6:23:04 PM
Author: nkarma
It his and your wedding. I would put his comfort over the way things *may* come off unless you are the type to really care about that stuff which it sounds like you don''t. You want him to be and look comfortable. The wedding photos won''t come out as good as they should w/o him comfortable also.

Thanks nkarma - that''s kind of how I feel. I definitely want him to feel comfortable, because he''s already not looking forward to all the picture-taking, haha - so I''d like him to at least be at his highest comfort level possible.

 

[VRBeauty]

A super-fine quality turtleneck... but it could be a challenge to find one that fits if he''s very bulked up.

 

[Haven]

Hey LT!

I love the idea of getting a tailored shirt for him for the wedding. He would probably be much more comfortable in that.

I think he could pull it off without a tie if everything else is super put-together. A lot of my husband''s friends are European and, for whatever reason, they come to most formal events in suits yet they don''t wear ties. DH always complains when he sees that, but I remind him that they can pull it off because they''re super trendy, and we aren''t.

Seriously, though, I don''t think it will be a big deal if your FI goes sans tie. He''ll look best if he''s comfortable, so if that means no tie, no tie!

(And this is coming from the woman who had the entire bridal party in proper morning suits at her wedding!)

 

[Squirrly]

Date: 12/9/2009 3:45:23 PM
Author: MagsyMay

Morning suits, ha, see what do I know! I know they were making a comeback in popularity recently and don''t seem to only be reserved for morning dress these days. I mean traditionally it looks as though they are to be worn with a tailcoat and waistcoat, and how man men have you seen wearing tailcoats these days! But if your family is traditional when it comes to menswear, well, then I guess the man''s gonna have to wear a tie!

My FI has about a 17.5'' neck and 44'' shoulders (and he''s only about 5''9'', ha, see I told you he was stocky!), and he often has to have shirts tailored to shorten them and narrow the waist. He usually chooses slimmer fit ones, but even those are often too bulky for his taste. Poor guys! Although it''s nice for once for a guy to have fit problems! I swear guys get off easy having measurements for just about anything they buy, yet designer jean makers assume that all women, regardless if they are wearing a size 24 or a size 36 are 5''11''!

lol my FI has the same ''dimensions'' as yours, so i asked him since the only times i''ve seen him in a tie is for a couple of his uniforms. he said the tie wouldn''t be the uncomfortable part since it can be loosened, it''s most likely that your FI''s shirts are too tight on his neck with that top button buttoned.

and supposedly my FI does wear ties when in civillian clothes although i have yet to witness this. i think i''m going to demand proof now. hope this helps!

 

[Octavia]

LTS, would he wear a tie for the ceremony and some formal pictures, then remove it for the rest of the reception? Most ceremonies aren''t THAT long, and then he could be comfy. But I agree that it''s probably more the shirt than the tie, and if he gets a great-fitting shirt, he''ll probably both look and feel a lot better.

 

[honey22]

Why does he have to wear a tie? To please others? To achieve a certain look? If he doesn''t want to wear a tie, IMHO he shouldn''t have to. It''s his day too.

My hubby (eeeeeeeeek, still getting used to that!!!) wore a really well cut suit, a great pale blue textured shirt with the collar open and they still looked great and formal. Granted, we got married in a chapel near the beach, so it wasn''t stuffy formal, but I think they still looked great without a tie.

Don''t be afraid to go against the grain and do something that makes you both feel happy and comfortable.

 

[Squirrly]

Date: 12/9/2009 11:55:01 PM
Author: Squirrly

Date: 12/9/2009 3:45:23 PM
Author: MagsyMay

Morning suits, ha, see what do I know! I know they were making a comeback in popularity recently and don''t seem to only be reserved for morning dress these days. I mean traditionally it looks as though they are to be worn with a tailcoat and waistcoat, and how man men have you seen wearing tailcoats these days! But if your family is traditional when it comes to menswear, well, then I guess the man''s gonna have to wear a tie!

My FI has about a 17.5'' neck and 44'' shoulders (and he''s only about 5''9'', ha, see I told you he was stocky!), and he often has to have shirts tailored to shorten them and narrow the waist. He usually chooses slimmer fit ones, but even those are often too bulky for his taste. Poor guys! Although it''s nice for once for a guy to have fit problems! I swear guys get off easy having measurements for just about anything they buy, yet designer jean makers assume that all women, regardless if they are wearing a size 24 or a size 36 are 5''11''!

lol my FI has the same ''dimensions'' as yours, so i asked him since the only times i''ve seen him in a tie is for a couple of his uniforms. and supposedly my FI does wear ties when in civillian clothes although i have yet to witness this. i think i''m going to demand proof now.

LTS: he said the tie wouldn''t be the uncomfortable part since it can be loosened, it''s most likely that your FI''s shirts are too tight on his neck with that top button buttoned.

hope this helps!

editied because i combined two FIS in one post

oops...

 

[katamari]

Definitely have your FI try a tailored shirt (or better yet, a shirt from a shirt-maker). It will change his worldview and there will be no going back.

 

[luvthemstrawberries]

Wow, thank you guys SO much for all the advice!!!

Haha, Haven - we are some of the LEAST trendy people in existence! I must say, it does amuse me to see you offering me this advice.

But seriously, thank you so much for the input.

Squirrly - That is a really good point. He was much more comfortable in that 18" neck shirt, but the rest of the shirt was INSANELY too big for him. Seriously, it is a task to get that top button done in the 17 1/2" - I usually have to do it for him because his hands are too big to work that darn thing, especially with it being tight on him. (Haha and I think you should demand to see proof of your FI wearing it too!

)

Octavia - That is a good idea too, with taking it off during the evening - something to think about.

Honey22 - It''s mainly just because it''s what looks "best" according to normal standards with the rest of what people will be wearing. Honestly, he''s probably that traditional anyway, that he''d always say that''s just what you do. But I do agree - it''s his wedding too. This is a very elegant place, but it certainly doesn''t mean it''s stuffy by any means.

Katamari - Thanks, I''ll look into those! Haha I think he''d love to have his whole view on dress shirts changed!


Sounds like the overwhelming solution may be to fix the shirt problem. Any idea how long it takes to have a custom shirt made? Because even the "tailor cut" shirts in the stores don''t fit him - haha they usually don''t even come in 17 1/2, let alone 18.

We also need to find him some longer ties - any tips on where to look for those? The big and tall sections in the department stores have NO variety in their selection.

 

[Clairitek]

Nothing too exciting to add. I definitely think that getting a properly fitted shirt is key. DH has a really hard time finding properly fitted shirts as well. We have discovered that going to stores aimed at younger men helps a lot. The shirts aren''t quite as billowy there. Check out the Express and Banana Republic. Also Calvin Kleins slim cut collection fits him well.

 

[LilyKat]

For an 11-person wedding, I think you can get away with doing whatever you feel comfortable with. A nice fitted shirt with an open collar, plus smart jacket/tux, would look good. Not "formal", true, but perfectly good!

 

[D2B]

It is his day too, and I dont for the life of me see why he needs to wear a tie if he doesnt want to. Brides are doing all sorts of weird and wonderful things so why can men change the rules a bit. A quality suit with quaility open shirt can look fantastic. Your wedding is small and intinmate - no reason at all to wear a tie for the sake of it. the wedding represents the two of you and he sould have fun at it not be constrained by a tie.

 

[somethingshiny]

Dh has a big neck, 18" and if the shirt isn''t cut right it does make him look like he''ll soon be swinging from a gallows. I think your FI needs to try on some GOOD shirts and find a collar that lays properly so that a tie will work (if he wants). It would be good to know that info for future use too.

 

[luvthemstrawberries]

Thanks for more advice, ladies!

Clairitek - Thanks.

LilyKat - That''s kind of how I feel!

D2B - I agree - it should reflect us.

somethingshiny - Yeah we actually did get some really nice shirts for last time he needed to wear the suit. The quality is very nice, and we did a lot of research before we got the two really nice ones that he has. The only thing we haven''t done is get a custom one.


I actually just went and checked, and the ones we got him were 18-36/37. They aren''t strangling him, but they''re definitely snug in the neck... and still too big through the torso, but at least they''re not HUUGE, because the cut we got is more trim than the really billowy ones.

I also asked FI what he thought about no tie, and he''s not crazy about it - just like I thought, he''s just that traditional that he thinks he''ll wear one. But he sounded kind of open to wearing it for some pictures and the ceremony or something, then maybe removing it. We''ll see.

 

[katamari]

Date: 12/13/2009 1:10:07 PM
Author: luvthemstrawberries
I also asked FI what he thought about no tie, and he''s not crazy about it - just like I thought, he''s just that traditional that he thinks he''ll wear one. But he sounded kind of open to wearing it for some pictures and the ceremony or something, then maybe removing it. We''ll see.

I personally like it when the groom loosening his tie for the reception. That is always a happy medium and would allow him to undo his top button and make it feel like he isn''t wearing a tie but still having that added accessory.

 

[luvthemstrawberries]

Date: 12/13/2009 10:12:46 PM
Author: katamari

I personally like it when the groom loosening his tie for the reception. That is always a happy medium and would allow him to undo his top button and make it feel like he isn''t wearing a tie but still having that added accessory.

Hey that''s a good idea too. He''s still thinking on what he wants to do, so I''ll be sure to mention this to him as well. Thanks!

 

[mayachel]

How about getting a custom made tie so that it is the right proportions and length.

 

[JulieN]

You might try Proper Cloth, definitely cheaper than bespoke. http://propercloth.com/perfect-dress-shirt