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Is marriage outdated?

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trillionaire

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She thinks so... (warning, 4 pager)
Video of author


excerpted conclusion:


''So, herewith, some modest proposals. Clearly, research shows that what’s best for children is domestic stability and not having to bond with, and to be left by, ever new stepparent figures. Less important is whether or not their overworked parents are logging “date night” (or feeling the magic). So why don’t we accept marriage as a splitting-the-mortgage arrangement? As Fisher suggests, rekindling the romance is, for many of us, biologically unnatural, particularly after the kids come. (Says another friend of mine, about his wife of 23 years: “My heart doesn’t lift when she walks in the room. It sinks, slightly.”) If high-revving women are sexually frustrated, let them have some sort of French arrangement where they have two men, the postfeminist model dad building shelves, cooking bouillabaise, and ignoring them in the home, and the occasional fun-loving boyfriend the kids never see. Alternately, if both spouses find life already rather exhausting, never mind chasing around for sex. Long-married husbands and wives should pleasantly agree to be friends, to set the bedroom aglow at night by the mute opening of separate laptops and just be done with it. More than anything, aside from providing insulation from the world at large, that kind of arrangement could be the perfect way to be left alone.

As far as the children are concerned, how about the tribal approach (a natural, according to both primate and human evolution)? Let children between the ages of 1 and 5 be raised in a household of mothers and their female kin. Let the men/husbands/boyfriends come in once or twice a week to build shelves, prepare that bouillabaisse, or provide sex.

Or best of all, after the breast-feeding and toddler years are through, let those nurturing superdads be the custodial parents! Let the Type A moms obsessively work, write checks, and forget to feed the dog. Let the dads then, if they wish, kick out those sloppy working mothers and run effective households, hiring the appropriate staff, if need be. To a certain extent, men today may have more clarity about what it takes to raise children in the modern age. They don’t, for instance, have today’s working mother’s ambivalence and emotional stickiness.

In any case, here’s my final piece of advice: avoid marriage—or you too may suffer the emotional pain, the humiliation, and the logistical difficulty, not to mention the expense, of breaking up a long-term union at midlife for something as demonstrably fleeting as love.''

is long term momogamy normal? natural? attainable? How many divorcees do you know? How many healthy relationships do you see? Are ''The Bachelor/ette'', ''Hitched or Ditched'', ''Millionaire Matchmaker'' the death knell of modern marriage? Is there a point to marriage beyond procreation?

Any thoughts at all?
 

Linda W

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No, I don''t think marriage is outdated, nor will it ever be. Good Grief.
 

Maisie

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That author woman probably has a hairy upper lip and bikini line down to her knees. She hasn''t had the sniff of a man in years so she is bitter.

Lol! Just kidding!

I love being married
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Linda W

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Date: 6/17/2009 5:02:52 PM
Author: Maisie
That author woman probably has a hairy upper lip and bikini line down to her knees. She hasn''t had the sniff of a man in years so she is bitter.


Lol! Just kidding!


I love being married
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OMG Maisie, you just made me spit my tea out. ha ha ha ha ha ha.
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cara

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Marriage is not outdated in that it has been rather dramatically remodeled in recent times to adapt to the era. And there is human variety - some people may not be suited for (or care to participate in) marriage, even in its modern incarnations. No harm there - but some people *are* interested in having legal and social trappings to accompany their long-term monogamy even today. And some people find marriage appealing for its retro qualities, or its religious meaning.

Basically I don't think that marriage is static, or even has a fixed definition at one instant in time. It even means different things to different people and cultures in different eras. Its been an adaptable social institution, and there is no sign that it has stopped adapting to the times or outlived its usefulness to all people, though certainly it is less central than it used to be for some.

Marriage used to be a method of political alignment, procreation, property transfer, or labor division according to gender roles, but not necessarily something that involved romantic love. Many people today would give a different definition. And even today, a man can be married to 4 women in some Islamic cultures and states. Two women can be married in some states or countries, but others woln't recognize or approve of that marriage. Some religions woln't recognize a second marriage if the "ex-spouse" is still alive. So Mr and Mrs A might have vowed to share their lives in a house of worship, signed legal documents to that effect, be living together, wearing rings, raising their children together, paying taxes together, calling each other husband and wife, and the church would actually consider Ms. X to be Mr. A's spouse, even if they haven't seen each other in 20 years. Many people would instead consider Mr. and Mrs. A married, so in that regard public perception has moved faster than rules in those religious institutions. Which is not really surprising.
 

Porridge

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Good lord no. People are just getting lazier and more entitled IMHO. Nobody wants to work at it anymore. Really, if it was that unnatural, it would have disappeared eons ago.
 

mysterylover

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Sounds like an unhappily unmarried woman with issues. (IMO, based solely upon the excerpt.)

I did not get married to ignore my husband, or for him to ignore me. But then, I married my best friend. Many people don''t, I suppose.

And having more than one man to contend with would seem far too much like my present employment. Not my idea of paradise. I''ll stick with one; thanks.
 

mysterylover

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"That author woman probably has a hairy upper lip and bikini line down to her knees. She hasn''t had the sniff of a man in years so she is bitter."


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Bingo!
 

RubyCharm

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Date: 6/17/2009 5:05:21 PM
Author: Linda W
Date: 6/17/2009 5:02:52 PM

Author: Maisie

That author woman probably has a hairy upper lip and bikini line down to her knees. She hasn''t had the sniff of a man in years so she is bitter.



Lol! Just kidding!



I love being married
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OMG Maisie, you just made me spit my tea out. ha ha ha ha ha ha.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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Vix

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Great post, Cara.

The author had, and confessed to, an affair.

So far from lacking sex she was busy (as is so often the case) having too much of the "wrong" kind of it.
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She and her partner made it 20 years, which is a damn good haul. I think people tend to forget that not that long ago dying from childbirth, war or illness was a lot more common in the U.S...premature death parted many a marriage!
 

ksluice

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Date: 6/17/2009 5:17:25 PM
Author: cara
Marriage is not outdated in that it has been rather dramatically remodeled in recent times to adapt to the era. And there is human variety - some people may not be suited for (or care to participate in) marriage, even in its modern incarnations. No harm there - but some people *are* interested in having legal and social trappings to accompany their long-term monogamy even today. And some people find marriage appealing for its retro qualities, or its religious meaning.


Basically I don''t think that marriage is static, or even has a fixed definition at one instant in time. It even means different things to different people and cultures in different eras. Its been an adaptable social institution, and there is no sign that it has stopped adapting to the times or outlived its usefulness to all people, though certainly it is less central than it used to be for some.


Marriage used to be a method of political alignment, procreation, property transfer, or labor division according to gender roles, but not necessarily something that involved romantic love. Many people today would give a different definition. And even today, a man can be married to 4 women in some Islamic cultures and states. Two women can be married in some states or countries, but others woln''t recognize or approve of that marriage. Some religions woln''t recognize a second marriage if the ''ex-spouse'' is still alive. So Mr and Mrs A might have vowed to share their lives in a house of worship, signed legal documents to that effect, be living together, wearing rings, raising their children together, paying taxes together, calling each other husband and wife, and the church would actually consider Ms. X to be Mr. A''s spouse, even if they haven''t seen each other in 20 years. Many people would instead consider Mr. and Mrs. A married, so in that regard public perception has moved faster than rules in those religious institutions. Which is not really surprising.

What a thoughtful and bang-on response Cara. I just wanted to add that I have several friends who eschew marriage exactly because they feel it pigeon-holes their relationship in ways that aren''t healthy for them. I don''t think this lessens their relationships or marriage itself. In fact, these are some of the happiest relationships I''ve ever seen. In my eyes, these couples are part of the group who are redefining and keeping marriage adapting and relevant.
 

radiantquest

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i dont think so. i got married in september and it was the best thing i ever did. i know that people have different takes on it. i think it makes a big difference what mindset you have going in. i also think it matters what kind of relationship you have going in. i know that a lot of people dont agree with cohabitating before marriage, but i think it just makes sense. it allows you to have enough taste of what it will be like and i think that going through a couple rough patches before your married shows you whether or not you and your future spouse can handle a marriage. it shows you how that person acts at times of adversity.
 

musey

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Eh, to a degree... but it depends on who you're asking and in what context.

I do think that marriage isn't such a 'necessary' thing anymore, especially when you're thinking about women and their security (lifestyle, financial, safety, etc.). I think that the idea that there's something wrong with someone who isn't married by a certain age is outdated. I think that the idea that someone must be married in order to have a family/children of their own is outdated (not to start a debate, I know that everyone's opinion on this differs).

There are certain ideas surrounding the necessity of marriage, like those I mentioned above, that I believe to be outdated... sort of leading to marriage itself being less 'necessary' and therefore 'outdated,' to a degree, depending on how you look at it.

But no, I don't think the general idea of getting married or wanting to get married is an an outdated one. No more so than many other lifestyle choices, at least.
 

MakingTheGrade

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This may sound weird, but ever since I was 8 and my friends wanted to play "house" with barbies, I wondered if marriage was really necessary. I''m generally an atheist, so there is no religious connotation to marriage for me, and it seemed mostly like a lot of legal changes that I could see myself doing without. And I grew up assuming that I would always be able to take care of myself, and that having a husband was not a requirement for a happy life. So growing up, I never quite understood the institution of marriage.

I think for the most part, marriage is what you make of it. As an idea and an ideal, I don''t think it will ever be outdated for certain people. If you enter it believing that it is a permanent commitment of love and/or a spiritual union, then that is what it is for you, and that''s great. If you are uncomfortable with the social connotations of marriage, or are not lawfully allowed to be wed, and find your happiness in other ways, that''s great too.
 

Black Jade

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Date: 6/17/2009 9:43:15 PM
Author: Vix
Great post, Cara.

The author had, and confessed to, an affair.

So far from lacking sex she was busy (as is so often the case) having too much of the ''wrong'' kind of it.
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She and her partner made it 20 years, which is a damn good haul. I think people tend to forget that not that long ago dying from childbirth, war or illness was a lot more common in the U.S...premature death parted many a marriage!
Small difference. She wrecked her marriage and so is now saying it is good for nobody.
Those grapes are sour.
Marriage is one of those things that you get out what you put in. If your marriage is the most important thing in the world to you and you work at it more than anything else, I think that it will be rare that you don''t have a good marriage.
There will be times when things get sour for a while, and you have issues to work out oh, when you come out on the other side!
Sex is a very important part of marriage, again it takes some effort to keep this going but it''s worth it since physical intimacy (with the one person, your spouse) is what truly bonds a couple.

My favorite story about married sex comes from about two years ago when a young woman at our church was given a bridal shower. It was given for her by her mother and the guests were all her mother''s old church-lady friends. She was supposed to have another shower the next week given by her younger work friends. After the old-lady shower, she had to send out an SOS asking that she not get any more sexy lingerie, stockings, etc. etc. since all the ladies married 30 and 40 years (20 is really nothing when you''re having a good time) had piled these gifts on her, along with advice which had her blushing all evening. I think she went into her marriage with the right attitude after that and we''ll see her happily celebrating with the same man in 20, 30, 40 years (there was one eighty year married lady there who was an example to all of us).

So I don''t understand this business about the light in the married bedroom from the two computers! Computers are for the office, not when you''re with your honey at night!

Marriage will never be obsolete. None of these so-called ''new'' arrangements (which are not so new, really) work as well. Definitely not for the kids, and not for the couple, either. No matter what this bitter divorced lady has to say.
 

trillionaire

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I think one of the things I hear often is blaming the down fall of a marriage on the stress of juggling kids and hubby. IMO, this has to do with incorrect priorities in the home. The marriage should come first if you want a healthy family unit, and the kids should know their place, which is after mommy and daddy. This culture of ''kids first'' is not good for kids that grow up to be spoiled and never learn deference. The world does not revolve around you because you are little. Kids that see loving parenting relationships learn to model those relationship, and for that reason, I would say that marriage IS a very good and important institution. Stability is very important to kids. And happy moms and dads have a lot more energy to give to their kids! Look at Jon and Kate
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Porridge

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Date: 6/18/2009 1:29:42 AM
Author: trillionaire
I think one of the things I hear often is blaming the down fall of a marriage on the stress of juggling kids and hubby. IMO, this has to do with incorrect priorities in the home. The marriage should come first if you want a healthy family unit, and the kids should know their place, which is after mommy and daddy. This culture of ''kids first'' is not good for kids that grow up to be spoiled and never learn deference. The world does not revolve around you because you are little. Kids that see loving parenting relationships learn to model those relationship, and for that reason, I would say that marriage IS a very good and important institution. Stability is very important to kids. And happy moms and dads have a lot more energy to give to their kids! Look at Jon and Kate
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! Not good!
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Hear hear.
 

Italiahaircolor

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She sounds like she may have a lot of cats...
 

LilyKat

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Date: 6/18/2009 10:39:43 AM
Author: Italiahaircolor
She sounds like she may have a lot of cats...

Yup
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I have to say I completely agree with Cara. Marriage is whatever two people want to make it. It can be the most amazing thing in the world or the worst, depending on what you do with it. Always has been, always will be.
 

Kelli

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Date: 6/17/2009 10:02:48 PM
Author: musey
Eh, to a degree... but it depends on who you''re asking and in what context.

I do think that marriage isn''t such a ''necessary'' thing anymore, especially when you''re thinking about women and their security (lifestyle, financial, safety, etc.). I think that the idea that there''s something wrong with someone who isn''t married by a certain age is outdated. I think that the idea that someone must be married in order to have a family/children of their own is outdated (not to start a debate, I know that everyone''s opinion on this differs).

There are certain ideas surrounding the necessity of marriage, like those I mentioned above, that I believe to be outdated... sort of leading to marriage itself being less ''necessary'' and therefore ''outdated,'' to a degree, depending on how you look at it.

But no, I don''t think the general idea of getting married or wanting to get married is an an outdated one. No more so than many other lifestyle choices, at least.
Totally agree with all of this!
 

Kelli

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And to give my own opinion,or jumbled thoughts anyway, I certainly HOPE that marriage isn''t outdated, considering I''m getting married in February. But to be honest, for most of my life, I haven''t seen the point. I have seen a lot of unhappily married couples. But I''ve also never had a strong urge to have kids either, and I understand that wanting them may change things. I''ve been with my FI for over nine years now. We''ve been living together on our own for most of it, and just bought a new house together. We get along like best friends and although I can''t say that every night is a steamy scene from a dirty movie, we sure do still have a lot of fun in that department. One day I just decided I wanted to get married. And while I know he didn''t feel incomplete without being married, he is more than happy to oblige. I feel like I''m marrying him for the right reasons, just because I WANT to, and vice versa. Things have NOT always been easy for us either, but we both work at it and the good times FAR outweigh the bad. So while I agree that marriage, or monogamy in general might not be for everyone, I''m not going to let some un-shaven bitter old hag make me feel less excited about my upcoming wedding!
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phoenixgirl

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While I have not read the article, my husband read it while I was driving and read me some excepts. She says something along the lines of how she "lost her grip on monogamy" and how she couldn't recommit herself to her husband, an admittedly nice man, because she didn't feel the ZaZoom she felt with her affair partner. Oh, and she has elementary school aged children, whom she is positive won't be harmed at all by a divorce, what with her being able to predict the future and all.

So now we have to read her four pages of blathering about how marriage is outdated just because monogamy jumped out of her hands and ran away from her like an untrained puppy (in other words, that she really had nothing to do with that "turn of events")? Her poor (nice) husband and kids!

DH and I agreed that once children come into play, you should tolerate some changing feelings or ennui for the sake of maintaining the stability of your children's environment. There could still deal breakers (such as your wife becomes some really selfish pontificator against marriage who cheats on you and then writes an article about it to pay for her new single gal apartment) but they would be things like abuse or inability to overcome addiction, not whims.

I don't think it's a matter of having too many cats or too much facial hair . . . I think this woman has seen too many episodes of Sex and the City. She doesn't like the life she signed herself, her kids, and her husband up for years ago, so she's jumping ship to have some fun.
 

tigian

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I''ve been married a little over a year and I love it. I don''t think I''m old fashioned or outdated in thinking.
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princesss

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Date: 6/18/2009 1:29:42 AM
Author: trillionaire
I think one of the things I hear often is blaming the down fall of a marriage on the stress of juggling kids and hubby. IMO, this has to do with incorrect priorities in the home. The marriage should come first if you want a healthy family unit, and the kids should know their place, which is after mommy and daddy. This culture of ''kids first'' is not good for kids that grow up to be spoiled and never learn deference. The world does not revolve around you because you are little. Kids that see loving parenting relationships learn to model those relationship, and for that reason, I would say that marriage IS a very good and important institution. Stability is very important to kids. And happy moms and dads have a lot more energy to give to their kids! Look at Jon and Kate
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! Not good!
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Trill, so often I go to post, and then find that you''ve put my thoughts on paper already (and probably more eloquently than I could have, since I seem to be on a sentence fragment spree lately).

I''ll read the article later, but my gut instinct is to say that no, marriage is not outdated. It''s like language - it changes and adapts to the needs of the people it''s serving.
 

Tuckins1

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Date: 6/17/2009 5:02:52 PM
Author: Maisie
That author woman probably has a hairy upper lip and bikini line down to her knees. She hasn''t had the sniff of a man in years so she is bitter.


Lol! Just kidding!


I love being married
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Lol!!! Well said Maisie!!
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Indylady

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Date: 6/17/2009 7:41:40 PM
Author: mysterylover
Sounds like an unhappily unmarried woman with issues. (IMO, based solely upon the excerpt.)


I did not get married to ignore my husband, or for him to ignore me. But then, I married my best friend. Many people don''t, I suppose.


And having more than one man to contend with would seem far too much like my present employment. Not my idea of paradise. I''ll stick with one; thanks.


+1
 

loriken214

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Date: 6/17/2009 5:02:52 PM
Author: Maisie
That author woman probably has a hairy upper lip and bikini line down to her knees. She hasn''t had the sniff of a man in years so she is bitter.

Lol! Just kidding!

I love being married
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BRAVA Maisie!!!!
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Lori
 

Diamond*Dana

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No, I do not think that marriage is outdated.
Lol Maisie!
 

chrono

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Date: 6/17/2009 5:02:52 PM
Author: Maisie
That author woman probably has a hairy upper lip and bikini line down to her knees. She hasn''t had the sniff of a man in years so she is bitter.

Lol! Just kidding!

I love being married
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That''s just too much. LOL!
 
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