Is it better?

[Imdanny]

It's a loaded question which is why it doesn't work - clearly nobody would choose the second option.

This.

 

[kenny]

I can't think of another object whose main purpose is to kill.

Barry Manilow CDs.

 

[bebe]

live in Texas
have lived around guns our entire life
we have guns in our home
we are both licensed to carry concealed handguns
I can shoot well

BUT

would I use it?
I'd like to think I would, but you never know what you will
do faced in a life threatening situation
even if I protected myself, I know I would still be faced with
a major legal situation. So if I shoot, I'd better be sure.

 

[colorluvr]

Cuso, i think this is an experiment in trying to educate anti's.......yes, i have an interest other than color stones. the guns in this house are mine, not my husband's. the sheriff even recommended the gun store where i bought some of them. politically i am a liberal....an endangered species on most forums associated with guns........ but i enjoy them and enjoy going to the range. i even enjoy cleaning them!

some here have had their opinion changed when they were threatened, their home broken into, stalked, etc....in other words, when their person actually was in physical danger. until then most think the police will protect them.

in my instance, i grew up with them in the house. i've had a gun of one kind or another most of my life. i've never shot at a living thing....and i hope i never have to.

MoZo

ps if i'm wrong re this being an educational ploy, i apologize. if it is, well, imo it wasn't well worded or thought out.

Well, we don't do gun forums, but even outside of them, there are still a few liberals who are OK with guns. You don't HAVE to be a conservative to not hate guns. However, gun CULTURE is something I really don't want to be around for any length of time. Too many whackos. Unfortunately, the vast majority of guns selling right now are not collector pieces, or shooter enthusiast guns, but are cheap, plastic, and paranoid. The last 20 years has change the gun biz quite a lot we're finding, and not for the better.

My husband and my BIL are both gun enthusiasts, (with collector or enthusiast type guns) but neither one of them would be considered part of the "gun culture" of today. One is more conservative and one is more liberal (doesn't matter which is which) but I agree that stating that you are a liberal in a gun forum probably isn't really popular, just like stating you are a conservative at a Sierra Club meeting doesn't go over well either.

I also grew up around guns in a rural area where it wasn't associated with gangs or killing people. They were used for hunting by some, for target practice by others and just for self defense by others. I also agree that unfortunately there are of lots of whackos in the "gun culture" and agree about your comments about the plastic crap that is being sold these days.

 

[Gypsy]

live in Texas
have lived around guns our entire life
we have guns in our home
we are both licensed to carry concealed handguns
I can shoot well

BUT

would I use it?
I'd like to think I would, but you never know what you will
do faced in a life threatening situation
even if I protected myself, I know I would still be faced with
a major legal situation. So if I shoot, I'd better be sure.

There goes my plan of absconding with Bebe's Leon. *Damn it!*

 

[katamari]

I would never use a gun to harm someone. Ever. Under any circumstance.

 

[movie zombie]

I would never use a gun to harm someone. Ever. Under any circumstance.

i actually went pacifist in attitude from about 18-26 years of age.......when my daughter was born, i decided the world could really hurt me if she was hurt, that i wanted to live to see her become an adult, and that if anyone harmed her, well, they'd go through me first. prior to that, i wouldn't have defended myself....after her birth i'd fight tooth and nail.

but we're not all the same or have the same reactions to life experiences. i respect your decision and i know you respect mine.

MoZo

 

[diva rose]

I live in Sydney were there are strict rules in regards to gun access/ownership.

I guess you can state Sydney is considered a safe city compared to most major cities around the world. However in the recent year or so, there have been several terrible crimes in suburbs considered very safe.

A family was massacred in a suburb about 15 minutes from where I live. The killer/killers were not found.
If I think about the innocent family who were brutally killed - I would prefer to own a gun.

Another group of students were sexually assulted and threatened with death. The couple (who were just barely out of their teens) jumped out of their building to escape. They died from the fall.

I am pretty sure - these people who became victims to the terrible crimes - ever thought they would be in that situation.
In fact I doubt any victims of crime or rape ever imagined their chances of suffering such at terrible fate.
Unless you do live in an area where rape and murder is frequent.

If I did have access to a gun - I would use it to defend my family from harm.
Do I feel sorry for people who go robbing homes/shops and get shot? No I don't.
Who knows what they were planning to do.

Not sure about America but in Sydney, you hardly hear about licensed gun owners having accidents at home.

I strongly agree with Holly, it's people who kill people.
The sad truth is - people involved in crime or plans to attack someone - they will get access to a gun without a license.

 

[bee*]

Wow it scares me that so many people are walking around with guns. I wouldn't even know where to get one and even our police are unarmed. To answer the question, I'd rather go without a gun and see how I get on!

Your police are unarmed? Where is that?

In most of the UK. Specifically in this case, Ireland. I like it.

yep, as gypsy said I'm in Ireland. The UK are the same.

 

[Asu]

If I could,I would like to protect my family in case something happens.That being said,I don't like guns and the idea of having them around my house.What if I reach for the gun,but who is attacking me overpower me and get the gun from my hands?It would basically be a death sentence.Also,here in Italy laws about firearms are SO strict.Even if someone breaks into my home and threaten me/my family either with a weapon or not,if I shot this person I will still get charged and have to go through a trial for having harmed/killed said person.Just a couple of years ago an elderly man who got robbed many and many times,finally got a gun and shot the robber that he found in his home.He had to go through a trial,was found guilty of homicide and condamned.Another older man who owned a jewelry,got a gun after having been robbed various times too,and when it happened again,shot both of the robbers.He too was condamned for homicide,and killed himself out of shame shortly after.His son is still trying to get justice today,but for the judges justice was already made.

 

[House Cat]

I know nothing about proper psychology but if you think about it . . . what mental impairment can be more serious than what gets a person to commit suicide?

'Mentally impaired' implies that people who commit suicide are ill, and thus, vastly different from us regular folk. I don't believe that. There are so many life circumstances that can drive ordinary people to the brink of despair and cause them to want to end their lives - e.g terminal illness, chronic abuse/domestic violence, feelings of worthlessness and low self-esteem, constant bullying, depression etc.

Sure - not everyone who has these experiences will commit suicide, but people are different. Not everyone has the coping skills, support, and resources needed to help them get through a crisis. That doesn't make them mentally impaired.

Thank you Sha.

Kenny, despair, even extreme despair, does not equal "mentally impaired."

 

[dragonfly411]

I know nothing about proper psychology but if you think about it . . . what mental impairment can be more serious than what gets a person to commit suicide?

'Mentally impaired' implies that people who commit suicide are ill, and thus, vastly different from us regular folk. I don't believe that. There are so many life circumstances that can drive ordinary people to the brink of despair and cause them to want to end their lives - e.g terminal illness, chronic abuse/domestic violence, feelings of worthlessness and low self-esteem, constant bullying, depression etc.

Sure - not everyone who has these experiences will commit suicide, but people are different. Not everyone has the coping skills, support, and resources needed to help them get through a crisis. That doesn't make them mentally impaired.

Thank you Sha.

Kenny, despair, even extreme despair, does not equal "mentally impaired."

Sorry to jump in randomly, but wouldn't an impairment imply that the person is not able to use that part of themselves properly? Despair impedes the ability to think clearly. That's an impairment to me. Just offering one way to look at the definition.

 

[diva rose]

A mental impairment in the medical world usually refers to someone with a mental/cognitive/intellectual disability.
Although it's common to see people use the terms 'mentally imparied' or 'disabled'. The politically correct term to use is - a person with a mental impairment or a person with a disability.

Having a mental impariment/disability does not mean you are ill.
People with a disability don't commit suicide unless they are suffering from a mental health issue/illness.

Mental health issues and a mental impairment are different things.

Mental health issues are disorders such as schizophrenia, Eating Disorders, OCD, Personality Disorders, Depression, Bipolar Disorder etc. People with mental health issues are usually medically and legally by law considered mentally unwell/ill.
Depression which is considered a mental health issue is strongly linked to suicide.

 

[dragonfly411]

Diva - Thanks, that makes sense.

To answer the original question. I like knowing I have the guns in house and can defend myself if necessary. They would be an absolute last resort, but I would use one to disable a person to save my own life. I wouldn't shoot to kill unless it truly meant losing my life instead, and by that I mean a person would have to be on top of me, knife in hand, jabbing at me. If there's a considerable distance I'll shoot them in the foot and run for help.

 

[Sha]

I know nothing about proper psychology but if you think about it . . . what mental impairment can be more serious than what gets a person to commit suicide?

'Mentally impaired' implies that people who commit suicide are ill, and thus, vastly different from us regular folk. I don't believe that. There are so many life circumstances that can drive ordinary people to the brink of despair and cause them to want to end their lives - e.g terminal illness, chronic abuse/domestic violence, feelings of worthlessness and low self-esteem, constant bullying, depression etc.

Sure - not everyone who has these experiences will commit suicide, but people are different. Not everyone has the coping skills, support, and resources needed to help them get through a crisis. That doesn't make them mentally impaired.

Thank you Sha.

Kenny, despair, even extreme despair, does not equal "mentally impaired."

Sorry to jump in randomly, but wouldn't an impairment imply that the person is not able to use that part of themselves properly? Despair impedes the ability to think clearly. That's an impairment to me. Just offering one way to look at the definition.

Hmmm.. that is an interesting way to look at it... I agree that depression is an illness and definitely affects people's ability to think clearly and be optimistic about life. But I think that still implies that if all suicidal persons WERE thinking clearly, then they would have chosen to live and not die, because life,we assume, is generally supposed to be better than death. I'm not sure that everyone believes that. I think that some persons take stock of their lives and think that death presents a better option than life - for various reasons - e.g some because of seemingly hopeless circumstances, and others who feel they just don't add much to the world etc. I don't know that I would call all of these persons 'mentally impaired', per se, even though as you said, some of them would be depressed and clearly feeling pessimistic already. Perhaps it's the words 'mentally impaired' that bother me, and the implication they carry. They imply that the suicidal person is unable to function normally and incapable of rational thought, and thus, vastly different from us normal folk, which definitely isn't the case for a lot of persons who commit suicide. A lot of persons who commit suicide are as 'normal' as me and you.

 

[Sha]

A mental impairment in the medical world usually refers to someone with a mental/cognitive/intellectual disability.
Although it's common to see people use the terms 'mentally imparied' or 'disabled'. The politically correct term to use is - a person with a mental impairment or a person with a disability.

Having a mental impariment/disability does not mean you are ill.
People with a disability don't commit suicide unless they are suffering from a mental health issue/illness.

Mental health issues and a mental impairment are different things.

Mental health issues are disorders such as schizophrenia, Eating Disorders, OCD, Personality Disorders, Depression, Bipolar Disorder etc. People with mental health issues are usually medically and legally by law considered mentally unwell/ill.
Depression which is considered a mental health issue is strongly linked to suicide.

Interesting info, diva. Thanks for adding!

 

[Sha]

I can't think of another object whose main purpose is to kill.

Barry Manilow CDs.

 

[Sha]

I can't think of another object whose main purpose is to kill.

Barry Manilow CDs.

 

[diva rose]

A mental impairment in the medical world usually refers to someone with a mental/cognitive/intellectual disability.
Although it's common to see people use the terms 'mentally imparied' or 'disabled'. The politically correct term to use is - a person with a mental impairment or a person with a disability.

Having a mental impariment/disability does not mean you are ill.
People with a disability don't commit suicide unless they are suffering from a mental health issue/illness.

Mental health issues and a mental impairment are different things.

Mental health issues are disorders such as schizophrenia, Eating Disorders, OCD, Personality Disorders, Depression, Bipolar Disorder etc. People with mental health issues are usually medically and legally by law considered mentally unwell/ill.
Depression which is considered a mental health issue is strongly linked to suicide.

Interesting info, diva. Thanks for adding!

np

I need to correct the info though - cause I think actually some of the mental health issues such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder are termed under 'mental impairment'. It's confusing.
Perhaps we'll be fortunate enough for one of our lovely PS psychologists/therapists to clarify this.

 

[House Cat]

A mental impairment in the medical world usually refers to someone with a mental/cognitive/intellectual disability.
Although it's common to see people use the terms 'mentally imparied' or 'disabled'. The politically correct term to use is - a person with a mental impairment or a person with a disability.

Having a mental impariment/disability does not mean you are ill.
People with a disability don't commit suicide unless they are suffering from a mental health issue/illness.

Mental health issues and a mental impairment are different things.

Mental health issues are disorders such as schizophrenia, Eating Disorders, OCD, Personality Disorders, Depression, Bipolar Disorder etc. People with mental health issues are usually medically and legally by law considered mentally unwell/ill.
Depression which is considered a mental health issue is strongly linked to suicide.

Interesting info, diva. Thanks for adding!

np

I need to correct the info though - cause I think actually some of the mental health issues such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder are termed under 'mental impairment'. It's confusing.
Perhaps we'll be fortunate enough for one of our lovely PS psychologists/therapists to clarify this.

I think you are right about bipolar disorder and schiz.

It's confusing, but that is why I continued to quote the term "mental impairment." It doesn't feel right to me. I do hope a psychologist or psychiatrist clarifies. Too much misleading info on the net.

 

[Madam Bijoux]

I've always lived by the rule "I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it", but I never wanted a gun or felt like I needed one. I wish I had a solution for keeping guns out of the hands of lunatics and criminals.

 

[AnneinGA]

I've read this with interest.

The question at hand is not (IMO) the OP's exact question but is more simple - would you rather have a gun or not? Because most people would choose at that level, regardless of the situation and I think that's been borne out in this discussion.

I grew up with two guns in my room, both loaded. I began shooting at a very young age, and not just at targets on a range. I laid across the hood of a moving station wagon (back in the woods) while my dad threw cans out the window for me to shoot. I hit them. He belived in real-world training not just at a target. Here are the three most important things about owning a gun:

1. Always treat a gun as if it is loaded.
2. If you think it's not loaded, see #1.
3. If you aren't prepared to use it, don't own one.

I had the fear of God in me that if I touched a firearm without permission I was in so much trouble that I would never get out. I wouldn't have touched a gun to show it off for any reason, but I have one in the house, I have a carry and conceal permit, and if it comes down to someone in my house in the dark and it's me or someone in my family being hurt or me taking someone out, I would pull the trigger.

AND

I hope I never have to do it.

 

[packrat]

Anne, that reminds me of how my parents were when we were younger. Dad's guns were loaded and in his unlocked gun cabinet. Glass front, to show them off. Under penalty of being beaten (to a bloody pulp or to w/in an inch of our lives, were the common phrases at the time) there is no way on the face of the Earth we'd have opened it or ever messed w/the guns.

Our gun cabinet is all wood, two padlocks, ammo stored in a different cabinet and I want to say most or all of the guns have those trigger lock deals on them. JD has mentioned one of those gun safe deals w/the fingertouch to open, which I would be ok with. If someone were to break in right now, we'd pretty much be screwed unless they were unarmed and we could fight back. I'd pluck someones eyes out if it meant saving my kids.

People that can't show firearms the proper respect shouldn't have them in the first place. Too bad it's not that easy eh?

I took hunter safety and want to take other gun classes and spend some time w/JD out shooting, getting familiar w/different guns and how they feel, so that I would be more comfortable *if* something were to happen. I do not expect it to. But I would feel better knowing that I could defend my kids if need be. I assume if someone breaks into my home, they're taking the chance that they may need to harm the occupants, not ask for Gramma Joyce's apple butter recipe, so I figure they can just have whatever we can offer by way of harm back on themselves.

 

[movie zombie]

[quote="packrat|1296251477|2836040" I assume if someone breaks into my home, they're taking the chance that they may need to harm the occupants, not ask for Gramma Joyce's apple butter recipe, so I figure they can just have whatever we can offer by way of harm back on themselves.[/quote]

i think so, too......

MoZo

 

[Imdanny]

I know nothing about proper psychology but if you think about it . . . what mental impairment can be more serious than what gets a person to commit suicide?

'Mentally impaired' implies that people who commit suicide are ill, and thus, vastly different from us regular folk. I don't believe that. There are so many life circumstances that can drive ordinary people to the brink of despair and cause them to want to end their lives - e.g terminal illness, chronic abuse/domestic violence, feelings of worthlessness and low self-esteem, constant bullying, depression etc.

Sure - not everyone who has these experiences will commit suicide, but people are different. Not everyone has the coping skills, support, and resources needed to help them get through a crisis. That doesn't make them mentally impaired.

Thank you Sha.

Kenny, despair, even extreme despair, does not equal "mentally impaired."

Sorry to jump in randomly, but wouldn't an impairment imply that the person is not able to use that part of themselves properly? Despair impedes the ability to think clearly. That's an impairment to me. Just offering one way to look at the definition.

Yes, you're correct. Look at the Global Assessment of Functioning Scale from the DSM-IV. Suicide attempt with clear expectation of death is ranked at 20 out of 100 (or 10?). It's definitely an "impairment" in functioning the severity of which is due to an underlying condition (meaning diagnosis or diagnoses).

It's a nice thought to think that people who commit suicide are "normal" or "not mentally ill or impaired," but this is not technically not true at all.

 

[labellavita81]

I HATE GUNS! PERIOD!

 

[soberguy]

I have a gun, carry a gun, and will use one when necessary without question. I will not allow a criminal to harm me, or those about me. I believe I am responsible for my safety, not the government of the United States. I do not need to be babysat thank you very much, I'm an adult. So, if you rob a bank, or a store in my town, or break into my home, I will shoot you. I have a .45 with hydroshocks, and I shoot to kill in as few shots as possible.

 

[labellavita81]

I have a gun, carry a gun, and will use one when necessary without question. I will not allow a criminal to harm me, or those about me. I believe I am responsible for my safety, not the government of the United States. I do not need to be babysat thank you very much, I'm an adult. So, if you rob a bank, or a store in my town, or break into my home, I will shoot you. I have a .45 with hydroshocks, and I shoot to kill in as few shots as possible.

This type of mentality scares the crap out of me! I just don't get it. I live in Canada, where people can't just have a gun in their pocket at the grocery store.. to be honest, I think I would feel LESS safe if that were the case. to me when people talk like this they make it sound like having a gun or owing one is empowering.

Just noticed I may be the minority here - which is fine. I was just stating MHO.

 

[packrat]

Scares me more that the local drug dealer/gang member/criminal can have one in his pocket at the grocery store. I figure they're the ones that shouldn't have them.

 

[labellavita81]

Scares me more that the local drug dealer/gang member/criminal can have one in his pocket at the grocery store. I figure they're the ones that shouldn't have them.

Your right, no one should have one..... oh in a perfect world.....