International opinions on the USA Presidential election

[brazen_irish_hussy]

The economist is not terribly liberal (they call their economic policies in the traditional sense of the word but the unregulated capitalism they support is pretty conservative by American liberal standards) but this was how they found the world to feel:
http://www.economist.com/Vote2008/
203 electoral votes they guessed would have gone to McCain vs 9,1115 to Obama if the election was worldwide

 

[Icy Melona]

Date: 9/28/2008 10:57:57 PM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 9/28/2008 8:31:30 AM

Author: Addy

I'm American living in England. Nothing to do with the actual politics, but the election coverage shocked me on a recent trip to the States. I forgot what a mud-slinging event it was. Politicans in England seem to talk more about the issues and actual answer the press's questions. In America politicans seem to dance around issues. The media doesn't help, they sensationalise everything and don't pressure for the answers the way press in other countries do. It's really disheatening to have lived in both countries and see the differences.

I agree Addy, it has also shocked me how 'dirty' US politics seems to be. Of course in Aust they will have a laugh and criticize each other in Parliament, but its almost always just about policy or what they say to the media - very rarely are people's family or private lives called into question ..

I also agree the press seem to be a bit 'easier' on them too when it comes to answering questions.

Isn't parliament time fun??

Well, we certainly don't have the same love/hate affair with our politicians like the US do in the press for a start. We don't really care too much for authority and generally tend to cut people down if they grow too tall! One thing that surprised me was how ingrained religion and religious idealogues are in American politics. Politics in Australia is pretty secular and I've never in my life heard speeches running along the lines of, "God bless, God willing, God's will..." and etc., in fact, I think that kind of rhetoric would raise quite a number of eyebrows here. I'd also say that politics here is centrist, our two major parties are more or less centre right and centre left. It seems the GOP and Dems have varying degrees of right and left in their base. And as for running for PM here, we're not too strict on what the Americans call "executive" experience. Here, if politicians hang around long enough in parliament and make enough buddies to be nominated as party leader then they can run for election a la Johnny Howard.

As for the election, I'd say a large number of Australians probably hoped for an Obama win. Mainly because the war in Iraq was unpopular and that we were more than ready to see a shift in international politics. Bush really bypassed the international community in alot of the security decisions he made. I think the consensus was that with Obama, we'd see a move back to multilateralism and more regard given to international insititutions. The Bush Doctrine scared quite a lot of people here and was heavily discussed in the press and by academics. I'm not sure if FTA between US and AU made much of a difference in people's sentiment here since our economy is more reliant on China.

As for McCain, he wasn't such a highlight as Sarah Palin was. What we learned about her overtime, we were just reminded of Pauline Hanson not because they share the same politics but alike in ways that they incite a certain demographic with populist rhetoric and oneliners. Not to mention the willful ignorance.

 

[Icy Melona]

Date: 10/4/2008 3:50:48 AM
Author: arjunajane
I also echo lara''s question - is one of Sarah Palin''s actual platforms/policy ideas to make abortion illegal? Or is this just a rumour?

If its the case, how do American women (and men) feel about that?

thanks![/QUOTE

There''s an interview clip with Katie Couric where she asks Palin the question about legislating against abortions. Palin skirted around the issue and didn''t directly answer Katie Couric. It''s quite difficult to make out Palin''s sentences but she does say something along the lines of how she is prolife under any circumstances and that she stands for bringing the number of abortions down or some such. I don''t supposed she can openly admit to banning abortion since it''s such a contentious issue and without losing some supporters.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 11/11/2008 8:58:51 AM
Author: Icy Melona

Date: 10/4/2008 3:50:48 AM
Author: arjunajane
I also echo lara''s question - is one of Sarah Palin''s actual platforms/policy ideas to make abortion illegal? Or is this just a rumour?

If its the case, how do American women (and men) feel about that?

thanks![/QUOTE

There''s an interview clip with Katie Couric where she asks Palin the question about legislating against abortions. Palin skirted around the issue and didn''t directly answer Katie Couric. It''s quite difficult to make out Palin''s sentences but she does say something along the lines of how she is prolife under any circumstances and that she stands for bringing the number of abortions down or some such. I don''t supposed she can openly admit to banning abortion since it''s such a contentious issue and without losing some supporters.

Sarah Palin is a Republican Party member. Banning abortion by constitutional amendment is part of the Republican Party platform. She was chosen precisely because she so strongly toes the line on this issue which is very central to the party "base".

http://www.gop.com/2008Platform/Values.htm#5http://www.ontheissues.org/republican_party.htm#Abortion

 

[Icy Melona]

KSinger, but did she outrightly say that she wil ban abortion? I don''t remember her admiting that. I thought she didn''t give a direct answer in that interview because she probably had an idea that she may exclude moderate GOPs and some independants. But it wouldn''t surprise me if she went on record saying that she will ban abortion.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 11/11/2008 6:36:32 PM
Author: Icy Melona
KSinger, but did she outrightly say that she wil ban abortion? I don't remember her admiting that. I thought she didn't give a direct answer in that interview because she probably had an idea that she may exclude moderate GOPs and some independants. But it wouldn't surprise me if she went on record saying that she will ban abortion.

Well, I'm not sure. I think she did not say that outright. But I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong. Think it was the Newsweek 7 part article said she outright refused to get on stage with some other politicians because one she disagreed with on something (I forget what right now), and the other was pro-choice. Apparently she was ORDERED onto the stage, but when there refused to acknowledge their presence. That would be a pretty good indicator that she feels fairly strongly, even if she was too coy or dishonest to say outright.

ETA - and "she" cannot ban anything of course, she can only support or not, the amendment or policies that would restrict abortion.

Also, I found this after a quick search:

"The day of the third debate, Palin refused to go onstage with New Hampshire GOP Sen. John Sununu and Jeb Bradley, a New Hampshire congressman running for the Senate, because they were pro-choice and because Bradley opposed drilling in Alaska. The McCain campaign ordered her onstage at the next campaign stop, but she refused to acknowledge the two Republican candidates standing behind her."

 

[Icy Melona]

Date: 9/29/2008 6:14:05 AM
Author: LaraOnline

Date: 9/28/2008 10:57:57 PM
Author: arjunajane
I agree Addy, it has also shocked me how 'dirty' US politics seems to be. Of course in Aust they will have a laugh and criticize each other in Parliament, but its almost always just about policy or what they say to the media - very rarely are people's family or private lives called into question ..

I also agree the press seem to be a bit 'easier' on them too when it comes to answering questions.

It does seem as if the everyday American is more politicised than the 'common man' over here. Flags on cars, in gardens etc etc, there's a real sense of nationalism that really leaves the mainstream Aussie cold. We really hose down the 'nationhood' over here, we mistrust it as a cynical manipulation of sentiment... except perhaps in relation to sport. I don't think we raise flags or sing national anthems in public schools any more, do we? I'm not sure, but there was a big debate about that a few years ago.

This seems to rub off on the mainstream interest in politics. While many people have a passing interest in politics, as a rule, Australians seem fairly uninformed about politics, although they do tend to take the right to vote seriously. However, their vote may be based on a rather ad-hoc or emotional response to the issues on the front page.

I'm going to differ from Arjuna, and say that most of our political reporting is not as indepth as is available in the US. Most of our reporting is fairly shallow, and does run a lot on personality politics - just like the weakest aspect of political reporting in the US.
Journalists here also hound politicians on really silly subjects, and, like the US, personal issues like marriage troubles, or illegitimate children, are really used to 'dog' politicians. One newly installed opposition party leader, Troy Buswell, was brought down after journos found out he had made a joke - four years earlier - about a woman's attractiveness by playing the fool and sniffing her chair in front of an audience presumably all men).
He was seen as one of the few politicians with the ability to lead the party at the time, and the party hung on to him for months, but in the end the media would not let it go, and he resigned from his post.

The journalists here tend to follow the traditional, time-honoured line of journalism, which is to report from the perspective of the 'common man'. However, most reporting is personality based, with generally an antagonistic news filter. Generally, a socially progressive, leftist version of events is interpreted and conveyed in the media. We tend not to have long-winded, rambling political essay which seems quite common in the US. Our magazine style is informal, but always 'easy to read', with short sentences. Our media is not for intellectuals!

However, as economic knowledge has evolved, journalists here seem less interested in the protectionist politics of the past, and this has seen a more sophisticated political analysis emerge in some areas.

I would like to comment more... but in fact, I'm just talking about Australian politics!

I have to say that I was surprised that Sarah Palin's choice to continue a pregnancy with a Down Syndrome child was made much of as evidence of her extreme anti-abortion sentiment. I didn't think continuing with a pregnancy in that situation would be seen as a weirdly religious or extreme thing to do?

It makes me really wonder about the acceptance of disability in the US...

It's interesting that you should say that and I agree that there is a lack of patriotism (except in sports) in Aussies. I do wonder if this has anything to do with an instinctive affiliation that Aussies (by that I mean cacausian aussies) have for "mother" England. It seems that when you reach a certain age in Australia, it becomes a rite of passage for young 20 somethings to get a working visa and travel to England to live and work there for 2 years. I read recently that our #1 travel destination was England, then Bali. I knew many colleagues who had "done" London for 2 years or dream of "doing" London and this was pretty much across the board in terms of age and gender. It also stood out more amongst caucasian aussies.

Also I do question whether immigrants (very contentious topic here, I know) from non English backgrounds really assimilate or fit into the Aussie culture. I was watching a news clip interview with two ordinary overseas Lebanese (one American and the other Australian) when Israel attacked Lebanon and I saw a distinct difference in the ideas and political leanings between those two. I got the impression that the American Lebanese viewed himself as an outsider witnessing the attack whereas the Aussie Lebanese took it more personally. Maybe those two were the exception but it made me wonder about the difference in our societies and cultures- one that produces a sense of "brotherhood" and on the end an inwardness or internalization of "old" traditions and beliefs.

I come from an Asian background and grew up in Korea, Singapore, Malaysia and Australia. I find that national affiliation or patriotism is something foreign to me partly because I've lived in different countries in my formative years and have found something I love and dislike in each of those countries. And also partly because the Aussie culture or patriotism isn't drilled into people from day 1, to this day I have very little idea what Aussie culture is apart from the quintessential fair go, cricket, footie and Bondi Beach. I found that in Korea, Singapore and Malaysia taking pride in one's nation and culture is enforced from kindergarten and by families. Maybe this indirectly and partly answers why patriotism isn't a strong movement in Australia because we're a nation dominated by immigrants but then so is America. Is it because we're younger nation than America?

 

[HollyS]

Date: 11/10/2008 3:20:29 PM
Author: EBree
Why, is it the same Peter Hitchens who wrote this gem about rape?

How The Left Censored The Blindingly Obvious Truth About Rape

What a winner. I, for one, would just LOVE to hear his thoughts on Obama.

Okay, I finally had the time to read this piece you noted above. What exactly do you find objectionable about it? I believe he made a point, from his point of view, that in no way excuses rape. Women can, without question, seriously reduce their risk of personal attack by being more cautious in many ways. That isn''t an indictment against women and a free pass for rapists; it''s just the facts. Where exactly is our personal responsibility when it comes to our own lives? Being a victim is an awful thing; and certainly more difficult to live with if you know you could have taken steps to prevent being one.

There will always be bad people out there. Our job is to make sure we have as little contact as possible with that element of our society. We do that by being first and foremost responsible for our own actions, including getting trashed.

 

[miraclesrule]

About Palin and abortion. I specifically heard her yesterday on an interview indicating that she would love to do more work in the area of making sure that every life is cherished. I will find the clip as I think it was on YouTube, but it was clear to me that although she wasn't stating that it would be her number one mission to outlaw abortion, because we know that a single person doesn't have that power anyway, she doesn't disguise the fact that she would do what she could to prevent abortion. I believe that she would make that a policy/platform issue. She probably had to tone it down in the election a bit by focusing only on her own personal beliefs.

Off to find the clip....

ETA: I'm not even going to comment on anything related to consuming alcohol and rape.

 

[miraclesrule]

OMG, I can''t do it....I can''t tolerate watching through all these interviews again to find it. Her strong personal stance is articulated in Part 3 of Greta''s, but I can''t find the video where she goes into what she sees in the immediate future and what she what policies and projects she wants to devote special attention to by becoming more involved in them. One of them was her strong involvement in the pro-life policy agenda.

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 11/11/2008 7:18:55 PM
Author: Icy Melona
It seems that when you reach a certain age in Australia, it becomes a rite of passage for young 20 somethings to get a working visa and travel to England to live and work there for 2 years. I read recently that our #1 travel destination was England, then Bali. I knew many colleagues who had ''done'' London for 2 years or dream of ''doing'' London and this was pretty much across the board in terms of age and gender. It also stood out more amongst caucasian aussies.


Also I do question whether immigrants (very contentious topic here, I know) from non English backgrounds really assimilate or fit into the Aussie culture. I was watching a news clip interview with two ordinary overseas Lebanese (one American and the other Australian) when Israel attacked Lebanon and I saw a distinct difference in the ideas and political leanings between those two. I got the impression that the American Lebanese viewed himself as an outsider witnessing the attack whereas the Aussie Lebanese took it more personally. Maybe those two were the exception but it made me wonder about the difference in our societies and cultures- one that produces a sense of ''brotherhood'' and on the end an inwardness or internalization of ''old'' traditions and beliefs.


I come from an Asian background and grew up in Korea, Singapore, Malaysia and Australia. I find that national affiliation or patriotism is something foreign to me partly because I''ve lived in different countries in my formative years and have found something I love and dislike in each of those countries. And also partly because the Aussie culture or patriotism isn''t drilled into people from day 1, to this day I have very little idea what Aussie culture is apart from the quintessential fair go, cricket, footie and Bondi Beach. I found that in Korea, Singapore and Malaysia taking pride in one''s nation and culture is enforced from kindergarten and by families. Maybe this indirectly and partly answers why patriotism isn''t a strong movement in Australia because we''re a nation dominated by immigrants but then so is America. Is it because we''re younger nation than America?

You raise such interesting points here! Yes, there is a current fashion of young people going overseas, perhaps even before going to live in another Australian state.
Well, I guess in many ways, this revival of interest in Britain is a continuation of a tradition that has carried on among the upper class since the first British arrived in Australia, certainly moneyed and connected youth of the 1960s were doing it, but the arrival of mass air travel has encouraged many more.

I would say that Britain''s generous working visas available to Australians are an absolute primary factor in attracting young people, and then of course, it has developed a ''beaten track'' thing since then.

The US, for example, is much less accessible for Aussies for the casual work thing, or has been in the past. I would say that in many ways it is the availability of British work, and its proximity to Europe (not to mention the worth of the British exchange rate) rather than the attractiveness of the destination in and of itself, that has fuelled most of the stampede, but that stampede has in a way fuelled a revival of Britain as a destination amongst young Australian travellers.

In relation to assimilation of young Australian migrants, personally I find your anecdotal evidence of the failure of young migrants to identify as being a little depressing. Leaving an original home country, to form a life in another country, is difficult enough without being hampered by nostalgic views of yester-year, or idealised political views. The US culture seems to set a greater store by having newcomers ''mix in'', whereas we, like the British, have developed a more strongly multi-cultural approach.

 

[arjunajane]

I like the way in which Australia is multi-cultural. I like that everyone is invited and encouraged to "fit in", and most do, but that most nationalities still mainain their own communities, industries/businesses, churches, traditions/festivities, cuisine etc.
I hope nobody takes this the wrong way, but I like nothing more than walking into "China Town" of a weekend for yum-cha, shopping and people watching !
I know this concept is not exactly original to us, but I definatelywouldn't want everyone to be "assimilated"..just my 2c *shrugs*

 

[LaraOnline]

Oh, don''t get me wrong, I love ethnic difference, it is, after all, the reason why we travel.
But to identify primarily with a country that is in fact not the country that you are living in (as per the little story that Melona mentioned) is not really healthy for totally fulfilled living.
I think Australia''s narrative can seem insipid in comparison with overseas countries, our music, our culture is not as developed, because we are such a modern country. The US is also modern, but has a strong narrative, a really strong sense of itself.
We, in contrast, are very suspicious of nation-hood narratives. I mean, when I see a neighbour with an Australian flag, I have kind of mixed feelings about it, like I''m wondering if he''s secretly an Anglo racist....