International opinions on the USA Presidential election

[ksinger]

Date: 9/30/2008 10:20:05 PM
Author: LaraOnline
How interesting...!


- very minor point this: would you say that a diminishing of patriotic fervour is a natural corollary of increased globalisation?

Kinda like finally getting out of your own country - and discovering that you DON''T have the best coffee / food prices/ cultural shows/ popular music /road systems (add own favourite example) in the world?

I know the author listed other examples of elements of a self-identifying group which could fall away, such as perceived economic success or moral authority... but I''m wondering if diminishing patriotism is something that all citizens - of every country - will be experiencing as we become more sophisticated, and aware of the other cultures and environments in the world...

Not sure really. Probably. But I think we humans may be hard-wired to be tribal. We don''t seem to do too well in really large groups. That "citizen of the world" stuff only goes so far. When we feel to anonymous, we look for others "like us", whatever that may be - color, religion, ethnicity. We are more secure when we''re "in", and can distinguish those who are "out". (Look at how we cleave to our sports teams, how silly is that really, but we do it...why?) It seems to be human nature. (What did I say about those endless discussions of evolutionary biology?

) We may lose "patriotism" but it may be replaced with something else, some other "identifier" if you will.

And yes, travel IS the great eye-opener. The single most life-changing thing any young person can do if you ask me.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 9/29/2008 7:07:36 AM
Author: ksinger
I''m glad this thread is open too. I WANT to know what the criticisms of America are. I want to mull them over for ways of looking at the situation(s) that I''ve never considered before. IS there merit in the views of people outside the US? Are there ways they can help us see better who WE are? I don''t want to BE that ''ugly American'' who assumes we are beyond reproach, or the rest of the world is populated by idiots who don''t understand anything. I''m personally tired of seeing my own country as an international bully. I know we have interests to protect just like any country, but I feel we''ve gone waaay too far in our assumption that the rest of the world should unreservedly welcome our export of our culture and political structure, even at the point of a gun. Just like every imperial power has eventually received its comeuppance, so now I truly believe we are beginning to see our own. The mental shift away from the belief in our own superiority and exceptionalism is going to be a hard shift to make for the collective mindset of most Americans, I think. We''ve been raised on it. But Britain survived its fall from imperial power, and so, I believe, will we....but it won''t come without pain. Change never does.

The next 20 years are going to be an interesting ride, no doubt about it.

All I have to say: Team America: World Police

Yes it''s obscene and yes it''s meant to offend pretty much everyone, but OMG it has a ring of truth to it.



Keep it coming, this is making for fascinating reading! And its something that I''ve wondered about for a long time now...

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 9/30/2008 9:04:15 AM
Author: IndyGirl22


I'm not trying to start a debate, Samantha Red, but would this include not paying for abortions in your opinion? Before I get flamed - I'm not trying to start a debate about abortion, I just want to know what government involvement is seen as permissible or impermissible over there. Also, how are political leaders/candidates treated in your country? Are any parts of their lives 'off limits?' I am curious.

Indy, if I may offer an answer aswell as samantha, candidates/leaders imho are not treated with the same scrutiny of every single aspect of their personal lives here - this is what I mean by US politics being more "dirty". I wouldn't say there is a hard and fast "off limits" rule, but basically wives and offspring will only get attention if they put themselves out there.
I think this also has alot to do with religion not playing such a large part here - out Church and politics is very much separate, unlike the US.
Hence, moral questions of behaviour and religious persuasion are not as relevant.

As far as abortion, I am definately course pro-choice. I have never really looked into it here so can't give you steadfast info, but I *think* if you have an abortion, Medicare (the govt) will pay some, and then if you have private health you can claim some of the costs.

Like I said, I'm not 100% on this, so would be happy to be corrected.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 10/1/2008 1:32:01 AM
Author: FrekeChild

All I have to say: Team America: World Police

Yes it''s obscene and yes it''s meant to offend pretty much everyone, but OMG it has a ring of truth to it.



Keep it coming, this is making for fascinating reading! And its something that I''ve wondered about for a long time now...

Bwa Ha Ha!!!!

Freke, yes it was obnoxious and foul, but oh how funny that movie was..

 

[ksinger]

Date: 9/30/2008 9:58:03 PM
Author: ksinger

He calls 4 of them, radical religion, oil vulnerability, global overreach, and mounting debt - ''the 4 horsemen of hegemony past, chuckling at the inability of humankind to learn from history.''

An exceptionally well-documented and well-written read, if a bit dense at times.

Apologies to Mr. Phillips - he actually doesn''t mix his metaphors - but I do, apparently. He called them the 4 GHOSTS. I called them the horseman. I guess I saw "4" and "of" and got it in my head that apocolypse was nigh. That''s what you get from tyring to do something like that right before bed.

 

[katebar]

Date: 10/1/2008 1:42:15 AM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 9/30/2008 9:04:15 AM
Author: IndyGirl22



I''m not trying to start a debate, Samantha Red, but would this include not paying for abortions in your opinion? Before I get flamed - I''m not trying to start a debate about abortion, I just want to know what government involvement is seen as permissible or impermissible over there. Also, how are political leaders/candidates treated in your country? Are any parts of their lives ''off limits?'' I am curious.

Indy, if I may offer an answer as well as samantha, candidates/leaders imho are not treated with the same scrutiny of every single aspect of their personal lives here - this is what I mean by US politics being more ''dirty''. I wouldn''t say there is a hard and fast ''off limits'' rule, but basically wives and offspring will only get attention if they put themselves out there.
I think this also has alot to do with religion not playing such a large part here - out Church and politics is very much separate, unlike the US.
Hence, moral questions of behaviour and religious persuasion are not as relevant.

As far as abortion, I am definately course pro-choice. I have never really looked into it here so can''t give you steadfast info, but I *think* if you have an abortion, Medicare (the govt) will pay some, and then if you have private health you can claim some of the costs.

Like I said, I''m not 100% on this, so would be happy to be corrected.

Arunajane termination of pregnancy is funded by Medicare just like it funds all medical and surgical procedures to the citizens of Australia (accept for cosmetic procedures).
IndyGirl22 I think we view our politicians in a more ''down to earth'' way and that probably is because Australian do not view their political leaders as heroes in fact it is quite the reverse. They are a necessary evil if we want democracy but we don''t slavish as much praise and wonder on them as you do in the USA.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 10/1/2008 9:12:26 PM
Author: katebar
Arunajane termination of pregnancy is funded by Medicare just like it funds all medical and surgical procedures to the citizens of Australia (accept for cosmetic procedures).
IndyGirl22 I think we view our politicians in a more ''down to earth'' way and that probably is because Australian do not view their political leaders as heroes in fact it is quite the reverse. They are a necessary evil if we want democracy but we don''t slavish as much praise and wonder on them as you do in the USA.

Thanks for the replies katebar & Arunajane. It''s very interesting to hear how different countries view their politicians. I know how some Asian countries view their leaders (heroes, dictators, etc.) but hadn''t heard much about Australia. The amount of investigation into Palin''s family has been unprecedented and at times ridiculous IMHO so it''s great to hear that it''s not like that around the world. The reason I asked the abortion question was because it''s sort of an oxymoron to say that the government should stay out of it while at the same time saying the government should pay for it. (Not saying anyone specifically said this, but that is the senitment expressed by many in the US and I was wondering if it is shared by most Aussies.) I think there can never be a true separation of church and state, at least in the US. So many of our laws are solely based on moralistic ideals (i.e. public intoxication) and to extract them from our legal code would change everything in a way most would not comprehend or support.

 

[LaraOnline]

Hmm, regarding Australian abortion costs, I''m not actually sure myself now whether there''s a gap these days between the charge, and the medicare refund. I guess it depends on the service provider.

Increasingly, these types of services are done by private clinics, are they not? Which means there would probably be a gap? Although the state government also provide some public clinics, through Women''s Health services...?

The public purse must cover quite a lot, if not most of the cost, I remember Tony Abbott getting his butt kicked comprehensively when as Health Minister he said something should be done to bring the abortion rate down. 100,000 per year in Australia...?

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 10/1/2008 9:12:26 PM
Author: katebar

Date: 10/1/2008 1:42:15 AM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 9/30/2008 9:04:15 AM
Author: IndyGirl22




I''m not trying to start a debate, Samantha Red, but would this include not paying for abortions in your opinion? Before I get flamed - I''m not trying to start a debate about abortion, I just want to know what government involvement is seen as permissible or impermissible over there. Also, how are political leaders/candidates treated in your country? Are any parts of their lives ''off limits?'' I am curious.

Indy, if I may offer an answer as well as samantha, candidates/leaders imho are not treated with the same scrutiny of every single aspect of their personal lives here - this is what I mean by US politics being more ''dirty''. I wouldn''t say there is a hard and fast ''off limits'' rule, but basically wives and offspring will only get attention if they put themselves out there.
I think this also has alot to do with religion not playing such a large part here - out Church and politics is very much separate, unlike the US.
Hence, moral questions of behaviour and religious persuasion are not as relevant.

As far as abortion, I am definately course pro-choice. I have never really looked into it here so can''t give you steadfast info, but I *think* if you have an abortion, Medicare (the govt) will pay some, and then if you have private health you can claim some of the costs.

Like I said, I''m not 100% on this, so would be happy to be corrected.

Arunajane termination of pregnancy is funded by Medicare just like it funds all medical and surgical procedures to the citizens of Australia (accept for cosmetic procedures).
IndyGirl22 I think we view our politicians in a more ''down to earth'' way and that probably is because Australian do not view their political leaders as heroes in fact it is quite the reverse. They are a necessary evil if we want democracy but we don''t slavish as much praise and wonder on them as you do in the USA.

Hey kate, cheers for the clarification - thats what I thought, but wasn''t 100%.

Indy, I think the question needs to be approached from a different mindset, as it comes back to religion. (For the majority here), termination is not viewed as a religious issue, more so just a medical issue.
Of course, like everywhere in the world, we have anti-abortion groups who are just as passionate about the cause, and the topic can still be devisive among individuals. I think though you will have a hard time finding someone here who thinks one should not abort if the pregnancy is the result of incest or rape, which from my understanding is where the fundamental Christian views come into it there.
I just want to make sure those reading this understand we are not a nation of loose people, blase about the issue, as I fear that is the impression being developed..

Anyway..Hence, imo, no the govt should not be able to dictate on what medical procedure people should or should not have. I am a strong believer in the separation of powers (state, legal system, church etc), so of course this drives my personal views.
As to the issue of Medicare (the govt) paying for it, I''m at a loss to think what would be a better system. I think we all realize those most often in need of this procedure are young with limited resources, financially and emotionally. From my understanding, the clinics funded by the govt also offer some sort of after care or counselling - this would not be available if the procedure were illegal.

Out of interest, could you please clarify "So many of our laws are solely based on moralistic ideals (i.e. public intoxication)"
(please understand I am being completely sincere) - I found it an interesting example..
As to the remainder of that sentence, I heartily agree.

Freke, apologies for heading far off topic, I think it is an interesting tangent though

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 10/2/2008 9:04:05 AM
Author: arjunajane

I just want to make sure those reading this understand we are not a nation of loose people, blase about the issue, as I fear that is the impression being developed..

Out of interest, could you please clarify ''So many of our laws are solely based on moralistic ideals (i.e. public intoxication)''
(please understand I am being completely sincere) - I found it an interesting example..
As to the remainder of that sentence, I heartily agree.

Freke, apologies for heading far off topic, I think it is an interesting tangent though

Oh, I definitely don''t think that at all! I''ve met several Aussies in my travels to SE Asia and they''ve been great! My example of public intoxication was because a lot of the time when people get ticketed for it they are harming no one. Some are just walking home from the bars because they did not want/could not drive home drunk. For this reason, I think the law as it stands is way too broad and is based on past morals where drunkards in public offended people, but offensiveness is not illegal and I don''t see it going anywhere. Obviously, if someone was drunk in public and was being a nuisance or a threat to others, that is a different story, but there are other laws that cover that type of behavior, so PI is unnecessary in that context. I hope that makes sense!

 

[bee*]

In Ireland, the view of Bush tends to be the same as Arjunajane described that of Australia. Not a popular option. Most people that I know are very disappointed that Hillary Clinton isn''t up for the running but I think that out of McCain and Obama, Obama is the one that would get the votes. Like others, I can''t believe how dirty some of the politics is. One thing that has been spoken of quite a lot over here about American elections is that no one tends to say what they are going to do, just that "change" is needed. Over here, that is all spelt out before we go to voting. In terms of our politicians private lives, we never hear too much about it, maybe the odd thing (Our Taoiseach -primeminister-spent his holidays in a caravan with his family). They tend to be pretty low key. In terms of Sarah Palin, it is quite scary thinking that she could be president one day. In terms of her abortion policy, I can''t speak that much as abortion is illegal in Ireland, so we have huge numbers going to the Uk every year.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 10/2/2008 9:04:05 AM
Author: arjunajane
Freke, apologies for heading far off topic, I think it is an interesting tangent though

No problem! I think it's very applicable. I'm interested in the differences between the USA and other countries, and this is a huge deal in the USA, so I'm wanting to know what it's like in other countries. I'm not making much sense...

ETA: I think its interesting that other countries are so unenthusiastic about Pres Bush, and his approval rating is floating around 20-26% right now...

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 9/29/2008 7:07:36 AM
Author: ksinger

I''m glad this thread is open too. I WANT to know what the criticisms of America are. I want to mull them over for ways of looking at the situation(s) that I''ve never considered before. IS there merit in the views of people outside the US? Are there ways they can help us see better who WE are? I don''t want to BE that ''ugly American'' who assumes we are beyond reproach, or the rest of the world is populated by idiots who don''t understand anything. I''m personally tired of seeing my own country as an international bully. I know we have interests to protect just like any country, but I feel we''ve gone waaay too far in our assumption that the rest of the world should unreservedly welcome our export of our culture and political structure, even at the point of a gun. Just like every imperial power has eventually received its comeuppance, so now I truly believe we are beginning to see our own. The mental shift away from the belief in our own superiority and exceptionalism is going to be a hard shift to make for the collective mindset of most Americans, I think. We''ve been raised on it. But Britain survived its fall from imperial power, and so, I believe, will we....but it won''t come without pain. Change never does.

The next 20 years are going to be an interesting ride, no doubt about it.

Why don''t I know people like you in real life? (minus FI of course)

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 9/30/2008 9:58:03 PM
Author: ksinger

As an aside, that book I mentioned, ''American Theocracy'' (which he states up front is more economic than religious in its subject and slant) Phillips makes the point that the US feels itself unique, ''the product of an altogether unusual process of federation and coming together''. He then points out that ''Rome, Haspburg, Spain when it was half of Europe, the Dutch when New York was New Amsterdam, and Victorian and pre-1914 Britain were just as cocky because they, too, had dynamic origins and also believed that they were different.'' He then lists circumstances that were common to most of the nations on his list. Without the examples he gives on each point (I only have so much finger power after all), they are as follows:

1. A popular sense of national decay, economic, moral, or patriotic.

2. An intensification of religion.

3. Conflict between faith and science.

4. Imperialism and military overreach.

5. The burden of excessive debt.

6. The decline of industry and the rise of finance.

7. and in the more modern examples of this, like the Dutch with wind and water, and the British with coal, he cites idiosyncratic fuel and energy successes.

Sound familiar?

He calls 4 of them, radical religion, oil vulnerability, global overreach, and mounting debt - ''the 4 horsemen of hegemony past, chuckling at the inability of humankind to learn from history.''

An exceptionally well-documented and well-written read, if a bit dense at times.

Good lord, I really need to compile a list of all the books you mention!

 

[MoonWater]

to Freke for starting this thread!

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 10/2/2008 11:22:50 AM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 10/2/2008 9:04:05 AM
Author: arjunajane

I just want to make sure those reading this understand we are not a nation of loose people, blase about the issue, as I fear that is the impression being developed..

Out of interest, could you please clarify ''So many of our laws are solely based on moralistic ideals (i.e. public intoxication)''
(please understand I am being completely sincere) - I found it an interesting example..
As to the remainder of that sentence, I heartily agree.

Freke, apologies for heading far off topic, I think it is an interesting tangent though

Oh, I definitely don''t think that at all! I''ve met several Aussies in my travels to SE Asia and they''ve been great! My example of public intoxication was because a lot of the time when people get ticketed for it they are harming no one. Some are just walking home from the bars because they did not want/could not drive home drunk. For this reason, I think the law as it stands is way too broad and is based on past morals where drunkards in public offended people, but offensiveness is not illegal and I don''t see it going anywhere. Obviously, if someone was drunk in public and was being a nuisance or a threat to others, that is a different story, but there are other laws that cover that type of behavior, so PI is unnecessary in that context. I hope that makes sense!

Oh ok, Yes I see exactly what you mean now. Cheers for explaining

 

[galeteia]

Date: 9/29/2008 7:07:36 AM
Author: ksinger
I WANT to know what the criticisms of America are. I want to mull them over for ways of looking at the situation(s) that I've never considered before. IS there merit in the views of people outside the US? Are there ways they can help us see better who WE are? I don't want to BE that 'ugly American' who assumes we are beyond reproach, or the rest of the world is populated by idiots who don't understand anything. I'm personally tired of seeing my own country as an international bully. I know we have interests to protect just like any country, but I feel we've gone waaay too far in our assumption that the rest of the world should unreservedly welcome our export of our culture and political structure, even at the point of a gun. Just like every imperial power has eventually received its comeuppance, so now I truly believe we are beginning to see our own. The mental shift away from the belief in our own superiority and exceptionalism is going to be a hard shift to make for the collective mindset of most Americans, I think. We've been raised on it. But Britain survived its fall from imperial power, and so, I believe, will we....but it won't come without pain. Change never does.


The next 20 years are going to be an interesting ride, no doubt about it.

As a Canadian living in the US, I frequently get asked what the my and/or Canadian perception of America is, considering the nosedive it's taken since Bush took power.

My short answer is that it's like going to a family reunion and seeing Cousin Biff drunk and belligerent, and being embarrassed by his behaviour because he's a member of your family and what he does impacts you, as well as being deeply saddened over how he showed such promise and could have made so much of himself but now beats his wife.

While it takes the questioners a while to digest this, they seem satisfied with the answer and reply that a lot of Americans feel the same way.

As for my opinion of the election, it's making me feel hysterical. At this rate, while they bicker about who said what, whether the country's education system should become monotheistic, and energy 'agendas', peak oil is going to hit before they've built the machines to harness alternative fuels, which means that by the time they've figured out green energy they won't have enough oil left to build the collectors.

It's like pioneer groups fighting over the last buffalo in the West. Ignoring the fact that it's the last buffalo, and no matter who wins and eats tonight everyone is going to starve tomorrow.

I wasn't sold on Obama over McCain until Palin was chosen, and I'm still not crazy about Obama. Neither was SO. But what I don't understand is why the undecideds and centrists are not fleeing to the left in droves when faced with the prospect Palin being the next commander-in-chief. People keep saying that she'll only be VP, but should anything happen to the President, and let's not delude ourselves about how hale McCain looks, she will succeed him. Why is this prospect not striking fear into the hearts of every sensible American boggles my mind.

 

[LaraOnline]

Interesting post, Galateia!

Date: 10/2/2008 12:42:42 PM
Author: bee*
In Ireland, the view of Bush tends to be the same as Arjunajane described that of Australia. Not a popular option. Most people that I know are very disappointed that Hillary Clinton isn't up for the running but I think that out of McCain and Obama, Obama is the one that would get the votes. Like others, I can't believe how dirty some of the politics is. One thing that has been spoken of quite a lot over here about American elections is that no one tends to say what they are going to do, just that 'change' is needed. Over here, that is all spelt out before we go to voting. In terms of our politicians private lives, we never hear too much about it, maybe the odd thing (Our Taoiseach -primeminister-spent his holidays in a caravan with his family). They tend to be pretty low key. In terms of Sarah Palin, it is quite scary thinking that she could be president one day. In terms of her abortion policy, I can't speak that much as abortion is illegal in Ireland, so we have huge numbers going to the Uk every year.

It is interesting to hear there is no abortion in Ireland! As an Australian, that almost sends a shiver down my spine!
I agree with arjunajane, in that most Australians are very secular, and DO tend to read abortion as predominantly a medical procedure.

However, the victorian state government has hit the headlines recently, by making it much easier for women to get very late term abortions , to 24 weeks, which apparently is an age that some premmy babies are born - and survive at.
That seems to be an example of where a 'secular morality' comes into play, because of the scientific reading of the medical issues involved.

I *do* think our secular lifestyle has affected our family formation process, we do have a lot of 'issues' here regarding family formation, but generally our lifestyle and government departments have moved to a more shifting view of 'family' to accommodate these changes in the past fifty years. I'm not sure the US is as embracing of the varying lifestyle types, as it does seem , from this perspective, to have a more structured sense of family, no doubt influenced by the Christian flavour of society and politics over there.

Come to think of it, what is the actual standard of access to abortion in the US right now? Is it on demand?

We have a small, but probably growing, Christian political lobby group. This lobby group probably follows the American example, to a degree.

I don't really care that much about the abortion debate actually - this IS a tangent, based on the Sarah Palin anti-abortion position.
My original question was, and I'd love someone knowledgeable to weigh in - but does Sarah Palin actually have a political policy on reducing access to abortion?

I haven't been following the debate closely, but it seemed the media had highlighted her personal preferences regarding abortion, and extrapolated them to become an adhoc policy.
But I didn't know if that was true...?

 

[Delster]

I''ve nothing much to add here as bee said it all really in terms of how the US election is portrayed over here.

I just wanted to clarify that abortion isn''t actually illegal in Ireland - it''s permitted where the woman''s life (not just her health) is in danger. It''s just that the medical professional bodies are opposed to it and will strike off any doctor or nurse who performs one. So it''s impossible to obtain an abortion in Ireland, but it is permitted in very limited circumstances. A woman here has constitutional rights to obtain information about abortion in other countries, and to travel to another country to procure an abortion (both of these were illegal before 1995).

I don''t post in this section much because I find it very America-centric and, at the moment, very American politics central. I find it anything but an ''Around the World'' board. Kudos to you Freke for being curious, I for one really appreciate your being interested in our (non-Americans) opinions!

 

[ksinger]

Right now, I''m just listening.

 

[LitigatorChick]

I concur with Galateia, although I think it is more Anti-Bush and McCain sentiment, rather than Palin tipping it over the edge. But over the edge she does tip it....

Chiming in on abortion, that is one thing that scares me. We have abortion in Canada, but no "law" - the old law limiting abortion was struck down by our rockin'' Supreme Court in R. v. Morgentaler (my hero, and order of canada recipient), but I fear that a US law may "leak" into Canada. Makes me blood boil.

Love this thread, but busy kicking butt at work, so gotta fly.

 

[swimmer]

Date: 10/3/2008 4:45:20 AM
Author: Delster
I''ve nothing much to add here as bee said it all really in terms of how the US election is portrayed over here.


I don''t post in this section much because I find it very America-centric and, at the moment, very American politics central. I find it anything but an ''Around the World'' board. Kudos to you Freke for being curious, I for one really appreciate your being interested in our (non-Americans) opinions!

Thank you for sharing Delster. Please stick around

and share your thoughts and make topics on politics or world affairs that concern you, Ireland, EU, whoever. Yeah, it is very heavy USA over here, but doesn''t that represent the forum''s population? And come on, for the first time in a long time we have an election that really means something with candidates that come from very different places...and a female vp candidate...and Saturday Night Live...and all the debates and spin...there is just a great deal going on. But please don''t abandon us, or we will miss out on more opps for international perspective.
Thanks for posting!

 

[bee*]

Date: 10/3/2008 4:45:20 AM
Author: Delster
I''ve nothing much to add here as bee said it all really in terms of how the US election is portrayed over here.


I just wanted to clarify that abortion isn''t actually illegal in Ireland - it''s permitted where the woman''s life (not just her health) is in danger. It''s just that the medical professional bodies are opposed to it and will strike off any doctor or nurse who performs one. So it''s impossible to obtain an abortion in Ireland, but it is permitted in very limited circumstances. A woman here has constitutional rights to obtain information about abortion in other countries, and to travel to another country to procure an abortion (both of these were illegal before 1995).


I don''t post in this section much because I find it very America-centric and, at the moment, very American politics central. I find it anything but an ''Around the World'' board. Kudos to you Freke for being curious, I for one really appreciate your being interested in our (non-Americans) opinions!

Oh yeah, thanks for clarifying that Delster-I remember that X case with the young teenager.

 

[hibiscus]

This might be an interesting read.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2008/09_september/10/poll.shtml

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 10/3/2008 5:10:19 PM
Author: hibiscus
This might be an interesting read.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2008/09_september/10/poll.shtml

Thanks for posting!

 

[hibiscus]

Date: 10/3/2008 5:32:30 PM
Author: MoonWater

Date: 10/3/2008 5:10:19 PM
Author: hibiscus
This might be an interesting read.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2008/09_september/10/poll.shtml

Thanks for posting!

You''re most welcome Moonwater.

 

[LaraOnline]

I think Obama HAS to win. He is an incredibly attractive candidate, both to look at and to listen to. He has a marvelous authoritive tone, and is smooth, charismatic and personable. His family life is attractive.
I also think that the Democrats generally sell a more palatable message for the general voting public. Although this might be my speaking from an Australian perspective, where EVERYONE is expected to vote.

Most people like to consider themselves as ''decent'' people and ''nice'' people, who are happy to lend a hand to the less well off... and see the reduction of hardship as an important, if not central, aspect of government.
Perhaps I am looking at this from a particularly Australian viewpoint.
Certainly, that''s how I think Australians see government. Compulsory voting is probably one reason why our government policy discussion revolves so heavily around welfare payments.

They used to say that the conservative party was the "natural'' party of government. I think modern electorates have changed in sensibility, and that Liberal (that''s Labor in our system) or Democrat parties probably have the more palatable political story, to the modern ear.

The conservative message of self-sufficiency, reaping your own rewards, and of flourishing communities independent of government intervention, is an distinctly old-fashioned concept, really appealing primarily to those that run their own businesses, or have already succeeded on their own terms.

The Democrat message of well-intentioned government intervention, emphasis on welfare and a ''whole-government'' concept of service delivery is what the modern citizen - particularly the modern employee, or the dissatisfied citizen - looks for in a government these days...

...?

 

[FrekeChild]

I just want to say thank you to everyone who has posted, and I hope that you continue to do so!

I've been lurking and reading everything here, and everything that you guys have been posting. It has really been an eye opening experience.

I'm fascinated by your insight from outside our protected bubble.

Come to think of it, what is the actual standard of access to abortion in the US right now? Is it on demand?

To answer your question, abortion is available (as far as I know) only in abortion clinics, unless one is deemed necessary in an emergency situation, in which case it will take place in a hospital. This is all to my knowledge. Abortion clinics are pretty few and far between because of anti-abortion activists. One abortion clinic (Planned Parenthood) here is on a pretty busy street, and when you drive by, there are protesters with signs there every day that abortions are taking place. The protesters are (from what I know) very much religiously based. So not only is abortion on demand, but it can also be a terrifying experience having people scream at you while you're going to get the procedure done. And of course there is always the risk of anti-abortionists bombing the clinics. It really makes me sad.

So...yeah.

ETA: sometimes insurance pays for abortions, if it's covered under your plan, but otherwise the person who has it done has to shell out the money. I've never personally heard of the government paying for any of it. But I've also never really looked into it.

 

[icekid]

Date: 10/3/2008 9:53:01 PM
Author: FrekeChild

Come to think of it, what is the actual standard of access to abortion in the US right now? Is it on demand?

To answer your question, abortion is available (as far as I know) only in abortion clinics, unless one is deemed necessary in an emergency situation, in which case it will take place in a hospital. This is all to my knowledge. Abortion clinics are pretty few and far between because of anti-abortion activists. One abortion clinic (Planned Parenthood) here is on a pretty busy street, and when you drive by, there are protesters with signs there every day that abortions are taking place. The protesters are (from what I know) very much religiously based. So not only is abortion on demand, but it can also be a terrifying experience having people scream at you while you're going to get the procedure done. And of course there is always the risk of anti-abortionists bombing the clinics. It really makes me sad.

So...yeah.

ETA: sometimes insurance pays for abortions, if it's covered under your plan, but otherwise the person who has it done has to shell out the money. I've never personally heard of the government paying for any of it. But I've also never really looked into it.

I've seen abortions in hospitals; this is not some back-alley ghetto clinic procedure we're talking about here. And for those interested, I do recall my insurance covers elective or therapeutic abortion. Getting an abortion is not difficult here, IMO.

 

[FrekeChild]

Yeah, I was just talking about here in NM. I''ve done a little bit of research for the topic (for school, oddly enough) and here in NM, clinics are all we''ve got. Who knows though, that could have changed...