Input wanted please--

[dragonfly411]

I think the Bobbi Brown Makeup For Teens is a wonderful idea. 13 isn't that young - she might be only a few months off her 14th birthday. Girls become fascinated by lipgloss etc at about age 10 - probably because they're not allowed to wear it! I remember Avon doing a line of kids' nail polish and lipglosses for about age 10 - it was play stuff, but even so. I remember loving it. Even at my well-respected school, at age 13, girls were allowed to wear what was described in the school rules as "discreet daytime makeup."

Yes, it would be great if she never gave her looks a second thought and spent all day buried in the works of Jane Austen, but you can't deny human nature, and the human nature of the majority of adolescent girls is to want to look pretty. Think about it: she isn't that young, almost certainly has started her periods if she's 13. I think she's definitely old enough for some discreet neutral makeup. She might also have spots she'd want to cover. Who else in her life is ever going to give her nice makeup like the Bobbi Brown line? She will be utterly delighted, I would think.

I considered getting her one of the Bobbi palettes that has like four shadows and a blush. But I might see if there's a Sonia Kashuk option like that, which is equally good quality at a better price point should she want to find other options. I hate to start her on something that high end and then have something happen and her be unable to replace it. I am reading all of your responses and really thinking about this carefully. I am going to give a gift card on top of what I give, that's a given as that was on the list of requests. And she might well NOT care about this stuff, or the mom might want it for herself. Who knows. But girls of this age DO want to explore, and they're GOING to figure it out, whether their mom wants them to or not. Why NOT give them a decent start? I plan to include a gentle facewash and moisturizer for proper skincare as well.

Here's a wake up call for you. I did not want to explore, have interest in, or like makeup until I hit my mid 20s. There is no SET list of rules for being a girl! You have no idea of whether she OR her mother would want this stuff. And guess what? I wouldn't even buy Sonia Kashuk. My makeup? It's 2-3-5 dollars tops. They are a needy family. They don't have money to replace 13 year old makeup on a regular basis. She's 13. You also have no idea how her skin would react to face washes. Seriously, get off of your high horse, stop categorizing girls into this "All teenagers will want to explore makeup because they are girls" category. You want to get her a good extra gift? Get her candles, get her The book "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective Teens". Or a gift certificate to the book store for her school books. SERIOUSLY. If I were your husband, I'd be pissed too!

 

[momhappy]

I think the Bobbi Brown Makeup For Teens is a wonderful idea. 13 isn't that young - she might be only a few months off her 14th birthday. Girls become fascinated by lipgloss etc at about age 10 - probably because they're not allowed to wear it! I remember Avon doing a line of kids' nail polish and lipglosses for about age 10 - it was play stuff, but even so. I remember loving it. Even at my well-respected school, at age 13, girls were allowed to wear what was described in the school rules as "discreet daytime makeup."

Yes, it would be great if she never gave her looks a second thought and spent all day buried in the works of Jane Austen, but you can't deny human nature, and the human nature of the majority of adolescent girls is to want to look pretty. Think about it: she isn't that young, almost certainly has started her periods if she's 13. I think she's definitely old enough for some discreet neutral makeup. She might also have spots she'd want to cover. Who else in her life is ever going to give her nice makeup like the Bobbi Brown line? She will be utterly delighted, I would think.

I considered getting her one of the Bobbi palettes that has like four shadows and a blush. But I might see if there's a Sonia Kashuk option like that, which is equally good quality at a better price point should she want to find other options. I hate to start her on something that high end and then have something happen and her be unable to replace it. I am reading all of your responses and really thinking about this carefully. I am going to give a gift card on top of what I give, that's a given as that was on the list of requests. And she might well NOT care about this stuff, or the mom might want it for herself. Who knows. But girls of this age DO want to explore, and they're GOING to figure it out, whether their mom wants them to or not. Why NOT give them a decent start? I plan to include a gentle facewash and moisturizer for proper skincare as well.

So you asked for input, but you are completely ignoring everyone's input. You SHOULD NOT get a 13 year old girl makeup without knowing the parents and how they raise their child. PERIOD. You may end up making a needy family not want to go this route again by doing something like that. If you want to get them something nice besides gift cards, then get them a gift certificate to a restaurant, or write them a nice card or a nice box of chocolates, but buying a 13 year old make up is the WRONG WAY TO GO!!!!!!

I agree - it seems like asking for input and actually listening to it are two very different things here. OP seems to be ignoring the fact that the overwhelming response here is that getting a 13 year-old girl make-up is a bad idea. It doesn't matter what brand, what particular products, what color, etc..... it's just a bad idea. Period. I'm not surprised that your husband got upset - I would too. Just because you think that every teenage girl should want to wear make-up, doesn't mean that they do. I know plenty of teenage girls that don't wear makeup (and don't plan to).

 

[Smith1942]

No need for the flame icon, Dragonfly. Of course, not EVERY teen girl wants makeup. Common sense dictates that, and I can't be bothered to preface everything I say on the internet with a bunch of verbal pussyfooting around each statement because I'd be here all day. I said the majority, which would be 51% upwards.

I really don't think that a gift of some makeup would turn the family off the whole programme. It's just makeup, it's not a loaded gun. But on reflection, I agree that it's hard to buy something so personal for someone you haven't met.

I've noticed that the topic of makeup seems to bring out some very heated reactions, with many people claiming never or rarely wear the stuff. I guess that a small percentage of women must be responsible for the cosmetic industry's global $243 billion turnover per year then! I've started another thread about it, because it seems there are some very interesting attitudes around the wearing of makeup, something we have been doing since at least Ancient Egypt...

Just remembered. My male cousin, who is a fashion designer, is not gay - he's always has long-term girlfriends and has been married with kids for quite a few years now - but even though he's straight, he wears makeup! It's very subtle, but he wears concealer and other skin makeup, I think. I think that once, I might have seen a touch of eyeliner on him. So some straight men wear it, too. My friend Robbie is a makeup artist ( he IS gay) and he wears full makeup every day, foundation, strong eyeliner, and I think he looks fantastic.

Sorry Ame, threadjack over. Anyone who has strong feelings for or against makeup for adults can visit the new thread.

 

[ame]

I think the Bobbi Brown Makeup For Teens is a wonderful idea. 13 isn't that young - she might be only a few months off her 14th birthday. Girls become fascinated by lipgloss etc at about age 10 - probably because they're not allowed to wear it! I remember Avon doing a line of kids' nail polish and lipglosses for about age 10 - it was play stuff, but even so. I remember loving it. Even at my well-respected school, at age 13, girls were allowed to wear what was described in the school rules as "discreet daytime makeup."

Yes, it would be great if she never gave her looks a second thought and spent all day buried in the works of Jane Austen, but you can't deny human nature, and the human nature of the majority of adolescent girls is to want to look pretty. Think about it: she isn't that young, almost certainly has started her periods if she's 13. I think she's definitely old enough for some discreet neutral makeup. She might also have spots she'd want to cover. Who else in her life is ever going to give her nice makeup like the Bobbi Brown line? She will be utterly delighted, I would think.

I considered getting her one of the Bobbi palettes that has like four shadows and a blush. But I might see if there's a Sonia Kashuk option like that, which is equally good quality at a better price point should she want to find other options. I hate to start her on something that high end and then have something happen and her be unable to replace it. I am reading all of your responses and really thinking about this carefully. I am going to give a gift card on top of what I give, that's a given as that was on the list of requests. And she might well NOT care about this stuff, or the mom might want it for herself. Who knows. But girls of this age DO want to explore, and they're GOING to figure it out, whether their mom wants them to or not. Why NOT give them a decent start? I plan to include a gentle facewash and moisturizer for proper skincare as well.

So you asked for input, but you are completely ignoring everyone's input. You SHOULD NOT get a 13 year old girl makeup without knowing the parents and how they raise their child. PERIOD. You may end up making a needy family not want to go this route again by doing something like that. If you want to get them something nice besides gift cards, then get them a gift certificate to a restaurant, or write them a nice card or a nice box of chocolates, but buying a 13 year old make up is the WRONG WAY TO GO!!!!!!

Here's a wake up call for you. I did not want to explore, have interest in, or like makeup until I hit my mid 20s. There is no SET list of rules for being a girl! You have no idea of whether she OR her mother would want this stuff. And guess what? I wouldn't even buy Sonia Kashuk. My makeup? It's 2-3-5 dollars tops. They are a needy family. They don't have money to replace 13 year old makeup on a regular basis. She's 13. You also have no idea how her skin would react to face washes. Seriously, get off of your high horse, stop categorizing girls into this "All teenagers will want to explore makeup because they are girls" category. You want to get her a good extra gift? Get her candles, get her The book "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective Teens". Or a gift certificate to the book store for her school books. SERIOUSLY. If I were your husband, I'd be pissed too!

Dude, you can put your friggin' pitchfork down.

I asked for input on an idea, not only on here, but to cousins and friends with cousins/kids of that same age group. I didn't ask for condescending nonsense or an accusation that I am pushing some kind of "agenda." I had an idea based on the interests on the vast majority of 13 year old girls in the world, needy or otherwise, and what they tend to be into. What I did at 13 is different, clearly, than what many of you did at 13, or many of you will admit you did at 13.

In one breath you're bashing me for not knowing about this person's sensitivities and interests, and in the next breath you're telling me to push what would be your own agenda which is to get her a candle and get her a book that sounds obnoxious and pretentious and entirely uninteresting, and I know not one 13 year old (or 35 year old) who would touch that with a 10 foot pole. Despite your accusations of pushing my "agenda" on this person, I was a big book nerd at that age as well and I would have BURNED that piece of "literature" you're recommending I buy for this girl before I ever opened and read it with said candle.

And speaking of bashing: I am GIVING THIS PERSON A GIFT. What are YOU giving? Why are you criticizing GIVING?!

 

[Smith1942]

I wonder if there's a bit of a Madonna/whore syndrome going on here?

Girls who are not interested in makeup must be more bookish, more intelligent, more wholesome. They are good girls.

Girls who are interested in makeup and other cosmetic products must be airheaded, obsessed with boys, probably can't spell, and are destined for a life of academic underachievement and low-paying jobs. Baaaad girls.

I wonder, when 13-year-old boys start displaying signs of gender role, or any traditionally gender-specific behaviours, such as video games involving car chases, or books about all things military, are they told that are not allowed to be interested in those things?

My nice is almost 11 and is very girly. She likes all things sparkly and likes kids' makeup. Her room is really pink. She is top in her class and also landed a place in the English National Youth Ballet, fighting off hundreds of other competitors, including older children who are training at the Royal Ballet. Some of you might remember that I went home in September to watch her debut in Swan Lake as a courtier and a cygnet. Liking girly things doesn't seem to be holding her back.

I liked makeup from being quite young, and was also interested in boys and jewellery from quite young, too. Didn't stop me from getting the grades in my A-Levels for Oxford University while simultaneously getting gold medals in ballet and modern dance and passing high-level piano exams. If there's one stereotype I can't stand, it's the bluestocking. For anyone who might now know what a bluestocking is:

n.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluestocking


Intellectual stereotypes aside, I can't understand why so many people seem to be really horrified at the notion of a young adolescent being interested in wearing makeup. It's a time of life when awareness of oneself, awareness of one's role in relation to a wider world, and awareness of the opposite sex begins to develop. I think it's natural for an interest in one's looks to start developing to some extent. Obviously, not to the point of obsession.

 

[Circe]

I don't think it's worth your husband getting actively pissed ... and I think it's really sweet that you want to go above and beyond whatever they requested to make the holidays special.

But put me with MoZo and Deco and Dragonfly et al ... I think makeup is an iffy gift with too much potential to backfire. My black friends hate "neutral" palettes, because they assume a default complexion. No, the makeup that works on, say, Mia Farrow, will not work on, say, Grace Jones. Her parents might hate makeup on young girls and this could become a bone of contention in the family. As somebody said above, she could be a tomboy and this could make her feel even more out-of-step with what stereotypes tell her girls are "supposed" to be like.

It's hard to choose a generic gift for that age group. If I had to? I'd probably go with the most affordable tablet possible. In this day and age, that's something almost all kids want, and, better yet, need to master to move on up in the world. No guarantee the family has wi-fi or wants to expand it, so either include a contract or buy some apps for it up front. Just a suggestion ....

 

[Kaleigh]

You come from a place of good. You want to treat this 13 year old to some make up. I just think not knowing her parents beliefs and all I would just do some nail polish.. Manicure set is always safe... You can throw in some lip gloss..

But skip the Bobbie Brown make up book... She is on a very limited budget.. You know a lot about this stuff print out a guide... Do cool graphics...

THat would be nice..

Your heart is in the right place...

Just gotta follow what they need and not what perhaps you want her to have??

As a parent I would be upset if someone gave my 13 year old make up...

But then again by 14, she was hanging with rock stars daughter, and wanted Bobbie Brown and Channel....

Grrrr.

 

[decodelighted]

Madonna/Whore? SERIOUSLY?

This is about choosing a gift for someone with VERY LITTLE KNOWLEDGE about that person. The key facts being

1) 13
2) Female
3) Underprivledged

Buying a gift for someone doesn't give you the right to PARENT THEM or make decisions about sensitive topics. There are many CULTURES than do not believe in makeup AT ALL much less for girls (or boys) that age.

The question is "Input Wanted Please" ... is this appropriate? reason for husband to be upset? Answer: NO and YES! Not because of any judgements about whether makeup is good/bad/indifferent. Or thirteen year old girls who want makeupt ARE WHORES?? What?

And I think it's hysterical that Ame thinks some of us might just not be ADMITTING to wanting makeup at 13. As if we are all secretly just like her but long into middle age still to frightened to admit these "whorish" impulses.

PUH-LESE. Think about THIS girl and HER needs. She's not some charity Barbie Doll for you to imbue with your BRAND-LOVE. If you must find some girl to push these agendas on at least get to know her first. Like: Big Sisters program etc.

Don't work out your "wish I was a mommy" issues on some innocent.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

If you get the makeup, be sure to get the Bobbi Brown Teen instruction book. You don't want THIS to happen:

hahaha This is one of those threads that makes me glad I have boys.

 

[decodelighted]

I wonder if there's a bit of a Madonna/whore syndrome going on here?

Girls who are not interested in makeup must be more bookish, more intelligent, more wholesome. They are good girls.

Girls who are interested in makeup and other cosmetic products must be airheaded, obsessed with boys, probably can't spell, and are destined for a life of academic underachievement and low-paying jobs. Baaaad girls.

I wonder, when 13-year-old boys start displaying signs of gender role, or any traditionally gender-specific behaviours, such as video games involving car chases, or books about all things military, are they told that are not allowed to be interested in those things?

My nice is almost 11 and is very girly. She likes all things sparkly and likes kids' makeup. Her room is really pink. She is top in her class and also landed a place in the English National Youth Ballet, fighting off hundreds of other competitors, including older children who are training at the Royal Ballet. Some of you might remember that I went home in September to watch her debut in Swan Lake as a courtier and a cygnet. Liking girly things doesn't seem to be holding her back.

I liked makeup from being quite young, and was also interested in boys and jewellery from quite young, too. Didn't stop me from getting the grades in my A-Levels for Oxford University while simultaneously getting gold medals in ballet and modern dance and passing high-level piano exams. If there's one stereotype I can't stand, it's the bluestocking. For anyone who might now know what a bluestocking is:

n.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluestocking


Intellectual stereotypes aside, I can't understand why so many people seem to be really horrified at the notion of a young adolescent being interested in wearing makeup. It's a time of life when awareness of oneself, awareness of one's role in relation to a wider world, and awareness of the opposite sex begins to develop. I think it's natural for an interest in one's looks to start developing to some extent. Obviously, not to the point of obsession.

THIS IS ALL ABOUT YOU. Is anyone thinking of the giftee? The point is PEOPLE VARY and makeup for a 13 year old of unknown race /culture/maturity/interests IS NOT a safe bet for an endless list of reasons.

 

[TooPatient]

Ame,

It is so sweet that your family is doing this!

I was not comfortable when someone gave "A" makeup for her 13th b-day. We don't let her wear makeup yet even now that she is 14. She has skin issues due to forgetting to care for her skin. Would I be angry if someone gave it to her as a gift? No -- not unless it was someone I had spoken with directly who knew it wasn't something we let her do.

Lip gloss & nail polish is a great idea! That seems to be the big thing for 13-15 year old girls (at least "A" and her friends) right now. Much more so than actual makeup.
Bath goodies (shower gels, pedicure set, etc) are great! (assuming no allergy)

A nice bathrobe & slippers were a big hit recently with that age too.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

I've noticed that the topic of makeup seems to bring out some very heated reactions, with many people claiming never or rarely wear the stuff. I guess that a small percentage of women must be responsible for the cosmetic industry's global $243 billion turnover per year then! I've started another thread about it, because it seems there are some very interesting attitudes around the wearing of makeup, something we have been doing since at least Ancient Egypt...
.

I wear makeup (full eye makeup, concealer, blush, & gloss, but no foundation) and I have a nice collection of shadows and tons of OPI polishes in bright red, pink, etc., so I'm one who's totally funded the industry. That said, I'd still not give a 13 YO make-up beyond a simple gloss. If I had a daughter, there's no way she'd be wearing makeup in 6th or 7th grade.

 

[missy]

Ame, I think you are awesome for doing this and you and your dh are so generous to do this every year. Kudos to you both.
If you feel strongly about wanting to give makeup I say go ahead as it's a gift from the heart and in my book that's the best type of gift. But since there is no way of knowing the family's thoughts re makeup for their daughter or this girl's makeup aesthetic either just be sure to attach a gift receipt. Then there should be no problem either way.

 

[Smith1942]

I wonder if there's a bit of a Madonna/whore syndrome going on here?

Girls who are not interested in makeup must be more bookish, more intelligent, more wholesome. They are good girls.

Girls who are interested in makeup and other cosmetic products must be airheaded, obsessed with boys, probably can't spell, and are destined for a life of academic underachievement and low-paying jobs. Baaaad girls.

I wonder, when 13-year-old boys start displaying signs of gender role, or any traditionally gender-specific behaviours, such as video games involving car chases, or books about all things military, are they told that are not allowed to be interested in those things?

My nice is almost 11 and is very girly. She likes all things sparkly and likes kids' makeup. Her room is really pink. She is top in her class and also landed a place in the English National Youth Ballet, fighting off hundreds of other competitors, including older children who are training at the Royal Ballet. Some of you might remember that I went home in September to watch her debut in Swan Lake as a courtier and a cygnet. Liking girly things doesn't seem to be holding her back.

I liked makeup from being quite young, and was also interested in boys and jewellery from quite young, too. Didn't stop me from getting the grades in my A-Levels for Oxford University while simultaneously getting gold medals in ballet and modern dance and passing high-level piano exams. If there's one stereotype I can't stand, it's the bluestocking. For anyone who might now know what a bluestocking is:

n.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluestocking


Intellectual stereotypes aside, I can't understand why so many people seem to be really horrified at the notion of a young adolescent being interested in wearing makeup. It's a time of life when awareness of oneself, awareness of one's role in relation to a wider world, and awareness of the opposite sex begins to develop. I think it's natural for an interest in one's looks to start developing to some extent. Obviously, not to the point of obsession.

THIS IS ALL ABOUT YOU. Is anyone thinking of the giftee? The point is PEOPLE VARY and makeup for a 13 year old of unknown race /culture/maturity/interests IS NOT a safe bet for an endless list of reasons.

The discussion has evolved, as discussions tend to do, particularly written ones.

I already said - above this post - that of course not every girl wants makeup and that on reflection, it's probably too personal a gift for someone you've never met.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

I think the Bobbi Brown Makeup For Teens is a wonderful idea. 13 isn't that young - she might be only a few months off her 14th birthday. Girls become fascinated by lipgloss etc at about age 10 - probably because they're not allowed to wear it! I remember Avon doing a line of kids' nail polish and lipglosses for about age 10 - it was play stuff, but even so. I remember loving it. Even at my well-respected school, at age 13, girls were allowed to wear what was described in the school rules as "discreet daytime makeup."

Yes, it would be great if she never gave her looks a second thought and spent all day buried in the works of Jane Austen, but you can't deny human nature, and the human nature of the majority of adolescent girls is to want to look pretty. Think about it: she isn't that young, almost certainly has started her periods if she's 13. I think she's definitely old enough for some discreet neutral makeup. She might also have spots she'd want to cover. Who else in her life is ever going to give her nice makeup like the Bobbi Brown line? She will be utterly delighted, I would think.

I considered getting her one of the Bobbi palettes that has like four shadows and a blush. But I might see if there's a Sonia Kashuk option like that, which is equally good quality at a better price point should she want to find other options. I hate to start her on something that high end and then have something happen and her be unable to replace it. I am reading all of your responses and really thinking about this carefully. I am going to give a gift card on top of what I give, that's a given as that was on the list of requests. And she might well NOT care about this stuff, or the mom might want it for herself. Who knows. But girls of this age DO want to explore, and they're GOING to figure it out, whether their mom wants them to or not. Why NOT give them a decent start? I plan to include a gentle facewash and moisturizer for proper skincare as well.

So you asked for input, but you are completely ignoring everyone's input. You SHOULD NOT get a 13 year old girl makeup without knowing the parents and how they raise their child. PERIOD. You may end up making a needy family not want to go this route again by doing something like that. If you want to get them something nice besides gift cards, then get them a gift certificate to a restaurant, or write them a nice card or a nice box of chocolates, but buying a 13 year old make up is the WRONG WAY TO GO!!!!!!

Here's a wake up call for you. I did not want to explore, have interest in, or like makeup until I hit my mid 20s. There is no SET list of rules for being a girl! You have no idea of whether she OR her mother would want this stuff. And guess what? I wouldn't even buy Sonia Kashuk. My makeup? It's 2-3-5 dollars tops. They are a needy family. They don't have money to replace 13 year old makeup on a regular basis. She's 13. You also have no idea how her skin would react to face washes. Seriously, get off of your high horse, stop categorizing girls into this "All teenagers will want to explore makeup because they are girls" category. You want to get her a good extra gift? Get her candles, get her The book "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective Teens". Or a gift certificate to the book store for her school books. SERIOUSLY. If I were your husband, I'd be pissed too!

Dude, you can put your friggin' pitchfork down.

I asked for input on an idea, not only on here, but to cousins and friends with cousins/kids of that same age group. I didn't ask for condescending nonsense or an accusation that I am pushing some kind of "agenda." I had an idea based on the interests on the vast majority of 13 year old girls in the world, needy or otherwise, and what they tend to be into. What I did at 13 is different, clearly, than what many of you did at 13, or many of you will admit you did at 13.

In one breath you're bashing me for not knowing about this person's sensitivities and interests, and in the next breath you're telling me to push what would be your own agenda which is to get her a candle and get her a book that sounds obnoxious and pretentious and entirely uninteresting, and I know not one 13 year old (or 35 year old) who would touch that with a 10 foot pole. Despite your accusations of pushing my "agenda" on this person, I was a big book nerd at that age as well and I would have BURNED that piece of "literature" you're recommending I buy for this girl before I ever opened and read it with said candle.

And speaking of bashing: I am GIVING THIS PERSON A GIFT. What are YOU giving? Why are you criticizing GIVING?!

Ah, this could go so round and round. Ame - it's great that you're giving a gift to this girl. My son is 13 and LOVES books but you know a lot of his friends don't and sadly, some kids can't read all that well, so even a gift card to a book store could be taken the wrong way. lol

 

[lyra]

I think your heart is in the right place. I would think about what her actual lifestyle might be. An additional gift card to Walmart or Target say, although it seems boring, might be very helpful to this girl. She may not have the privilege of indulging in luxuries, but most everyone feels comfortable shopping at these stores. She might need clothes more than makeup. She might need extras for school. Maybe she loves art, and wants art supplies. These chain stores represent good value and are usually very accessible. She would probably be thrilled at the possibilities. Or maybe she just wants personal care items of her choosing. Maybe you can request a non-giftcard only family next year. This year you have a family that wants and needs gift cards.

 

[Smith1942]

Madonna/Whore? SERIOUSLY?

This is about choosing a gift for someone with VERY LITTLE KNOWLEDGE about that person. The key facts being

1) 13
2) Female
3) Underprivledged

Buying a gift for someone doesn't give you the right to PARENT THEM or make decisions about sensitive topics. There are many CULTURES than do not believe in makeup AT ALL much less for girls (or boys) that age.

The question is "Input Wanted Please" ... is this appropriate? reason for husband to be upset? Answer: NO and YES! Not because of any judgements about whether makeup is good/bad/indifferent. Or thirteen year old girls who want makeupt ARE WHORES?? What?

And I think it's hysterical that Ame thinks some of us might just not be ADMITTING to wanting makeup at 13. As if we are all secretly just like her but long into middle age still to frightened to admit these "whorish" impulses.

PUH-LESE. Think about THIS girl and HER needs. She's not some charity Barbie Doll for you to imbue with your BRAND-LOVE. If you must find some girl to push these agendas on at least get to know her first. Like: Big Sisters program etc.

Don't work out your "wish I was a mommy" issues on some innocent.

Deco, you sound as if you think I was calling 13 year olds who wanted makeup whores, despite that I myself fully admitted to having been a young girl who wanted makeup well before that age. Perhaps you haven't heard of the Madonna/whore complex identified by Freud and widely studied in psychoanalytic literature. I can assure you, the term isn't mine. It refers to a group of psychological attitudes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madonna%E2%80%93whore_complex

I mean, you can read into anything as much as you want, but I think Ame didn't have an agenda but just a sweet idea, since many teens are becoming interested in the way they look at that age, and an underprivileged girl might not have much spare money to spend on herself. Note also that the makeup was just meant to be a nice extra, not the main part of Ame's gift.

 

[monarch64]

If I were a 13 year old girl without money to buy things for myself, I would appreciate having gift cards with which to do just that. Being able to choose and buy your own personal care products at that age (if there is a WalMart or other discount department store GC involved) would probably mean a lot to a teenage girl.

I think your idea is really sweet and thoughtful, but probably more appropriate for a niece or cousin you actually know.

I kept reading the responses today, and wanted to add on to my earlier one.

I think your heart is in the right place, Ame. I think if some nice makeup is an additional treat to the gift cards the family requested, and that makes you feel good, and it's just a couple very neutral items that work with most, if not all, skin tones, then why not? A clear-ish gloss, a pretty nail polish or two, etc. aren't usually the kinds of things parents would completely object to. Nothing wrong with a makeup bag either, imo.

Not that it matters at all, but I do remember wanting to wear makeup and experiment like my classmates did when I was 12/13/14. I had babysitting money but always asked my grandma to buy me the Estee Lauder holiday set that had like 4 color palettes in it for Christmas those years. I also was half tomboy/half wanna be glamazon. One can be both.

The giving season is just that--giving. I really think if Ame wants to get something she thinks might be special for this child in addition to the very practical things the family asked for, then why make her feel bad about it? Most posters were gentle with their comments whether they approved or not, but some of these responses...just...ouch!

 

[Smith1942]

I agree with everything you say above, Monarch.

But how sophisticated of you to have heard of Estee Lauder at that age! I hadn't heard of any of those brands until I was 23 and got a student job in a department store while doing my MA. When I was a young girl, we had Avon.

 

[decodelighted]

My personal belief is that society is already sexualizing young girls at way too young an age. SECRET SANTA doesn't need to join in the fray.

(And I'm well aware of the Madonna/Whore iconography & origin. Just STUNNED that anyone would infer that it's playing into the discouraging of this particular gift item for this particular girl?!!)

It's not because makeup in and of itself is "bad" or "whoreish" or ... anything of the like. It's inappropriate IN THIS INSTANCE for all the various reasons I've already listed.

 

[monarch64]

I agree with everything you say above, Monarch.

But how sophisticated of you to have heard of Estee Lauder at that age! I hadn't heard of any of those brands until I was 23 and got a student job in a department store while doing my MA. When I was a young girl, we had Avon.

Thanks, Smith. Our Sunday newspaper was always full of department store ads with those makeup brands in them. My mom gave me magazine subscriptions to Seventeen and Vogue when I was 12, so that's how I had access. My friends in school were big on the brand Clinique because it was like "starter" makeup and the premise was skin care, which teens definitely usually struggle with. I went into the fashion/retail industry eventually. However, I grew up on a small farm. I was lucky to have been exposed to country life as well as city life--friends and I used to go to ballets in the nearest metro area (Indianapolis), and my mother had grown up in a major city. My dad had traveled all over the world, and my parents lived in Fort Lauderdale for about 8 years. While I was by no means a sophisticated child, I was aware of some luxury brands. At 36, I'm now back to basics, but I do still love my NARS makeup.

ETA: I don't disagree entirely with those who talk about sexualizing our young girls. I have mentioned here before that I had an eating disorder by the time I was 14, got treatment when I was 17 and have struggled with body image on and off ever since. But that is nature/nurture, to put it very simply, and there were so many factors that went into it besides wearing makeup at 12-13-14. It's just a huge issue that gets discussed every few months here on PS...I'm sure we'll see another thread pop up on it soon enough.

 

[Smith1942]

Madonna/Whore? SERIOUSLY?

This is about choosing a gift for someone with VERY LITTLE KNOWLEDGE about that person. The key facts being

1) 13
2) Female
3) Underprivledged

Buying a gift for someone doesn't give you the right to PARENT THEM or make decisions about sensitive topics. There are many CULTURES than do not believe in makeup AT ALL much less for girls (or boys) that age.

The question is "Input Wanted Please" ... is this appropriate? reason for husband to be upset? Answer: NO and YES! Not because of any judgements about whether makeup is good/bad/indifferent. Or thirteen year old girls who want makeupt ARE WHORES?? What?

And I think it's hysterical that Ame thinks some of us might just not be ADMITTING to wanting makeup at 13. As if we are all secretly just like her but long into middle age still to frightened to admit these "whorish" impulses.

PUH-LESE. Think about THIS girl and HER needs. She's not some charity Barbie Doll for you to imbue with your BRAND-LOVE. If you must find some girl to push these agendas on at least get to know her first. Like: Big Sisters program etc.

Don't work out your "wish I was a mommy" issues on some innocent.

I don't think you should have said that, Deco. For all you know, the OP or anyone else here might have been struggling to have a family but can't. Comments like that could be very hurtful for women in certain circumstances. They may well have "wish I was a mommy" issues in the medical sense. If someone wants to have children but cannot, I don't see what that's got to do with supporting the idea of a nice extra for a girl who doesn't have much to spend on herself.

 

[FrekeChild]

.....needs a popcorn emotie.....

 

[monarch64]

Deco, Big Sisters is a great program, I agree. I took my Little Sister to the mall when I was in the program. I wanted to take her in Claire's (the little junk jewelry store chain that I loved as a kid) and buy her a treat. She didn't want ANYTHING. I remember being really disappointed. But she tried stuff on anyway and we had a good time. Later she told me that she didn't have to worry about school--her family believed that a religious apocalypse was about to happen and that even though she wanted to be a veterinarian, she wouldn't live long enough to see that dream fulfilled.

I just don't know that not exposing a child to something that is "normal" to us is that bad. Maybe it would bring just a little happiness of a different kind into their world for a time.

 

[distracts]

Uh, 13 isn't too young to wear makeup. I didn't know a single girl in middle school who didn't wear makeup, and only a few in high school. All my younger cousins wear makeup, as do the girls I've met from their classes, again all starting around 12.

But then... I'm from Dallas. And we do like to, well, be Dallasy.

I do think something like a neutral eyeshadow palette (there are SO MANY that are appropriate for all skin tones - I'd actually recommend the NYX one because it is SO CHEAP yet SO GOOD - I love NYX eyeshadows and have a ton mixed in with my Urban Decay, Lorac, Guerlain, etc), a few eyeshadow brushes, some lip gloss and nice moisturizing lip balm, nail polishes, bath bombs, and some hopefully rebuyable-for-them quality skincare stuff that comes from a regular store (Dr. Bronner's castile soap, Cerave foaming cleanser, Vanicream moisturizer, etc) since you probably have a lot more ability to research stuff that is gentle, healthy, but hopefully affordable. (Reddit skincareaddiction has a ton of resources.)

I think it's probably really special to not only give them things they really need but also things to make the holiday more fun. I am sure every family appreciates it.

 

[Polished]

I think the spirit in which you are wanting to do this is spot on Ame. I remember watching a show called "Poor Kids" that came out of the UK a few years ago. One of the things I remember from that was it wasn't just having their needs met that was important. For instance there was no shortage of second hand clothes but what would, for some, have been really appreciated was the opportunity to go and choose something new for themselves. Never underestimate the benefit of lifting someone's morale.

 

[Smith1942]

.....needs a popcorn emotie.....

To explain further where I'm coming from, I am almost 40 so I know a lot of people who are struggling with this issue, and the pain it can bring is unbelievable. I've actually had a friend tell me that she can't bear to be around babies. She has to leave the room. Another has a day of crying every time her period arrives. It's a world of pain out there for some people in my age group.

(ETA: Not to get too maudlin, it should also be noted that I've known quite a few women in late thirties/early forties have healthy babies, and actually one of my younger friends who lost a baby at eight months was only 23 years old so not always an age issue.)

 

[Smith1942]

Monarch: "I just don't know that not exposing a child to something that is "normal" to us is that bad. Maybe it would bring just a little happiness of a different kind into their world for a time."

Polished: "...it wasn't just having their needs met that was important. For instance there was no shortage of second hand clothes but what would, for some, have been really appreciated was the opportunity to go and choose something new for themselves. Never underestimate the benefit of lifting someone's morale."

I really agree with these two comments and it's in this spirit that my support for Ame's idea was given.

Maybe a gift of any cosmetics could be seen to have a subtext. As MC mentioned, a book could also be seen to have a subtext. I think it's impossible to ascribe motives to someone you don't know well, though. Generally, it's a happier and healthier thing to assume good intentions behind a gift rather than bad.

 

[decodelighted]

Don't work out your "wish I was a mommy" issues on some innocent.

I don't think you should have said that, Deco. For all you know, the OP or anyone else here might have been struggling to have a family but can't.

Agreed. I overstated the sentiment harshly. What I *mean* to say is that more intimate, personal gifts are best given by someone who knows a child well and is able to consult their parents if there are any questions as to appropriateness/permission.

If one does crave a hands-on mentoring type of relationship with children or young adults ... there ARE ways to go about that other than anonymous gift giving.

I DO NOT believe that all gifts are given without strings or ulterior motives. A friend of mine gave a boyfriend a long mixed cd she'd made and then was angry he hadn't immediately listened to it and understood her hidden meanings in all the songs. My response: you didn't give him a GIFT ... you gave him a JOB to do, to which he didn't accomplish to your satisfaction.

Makeup can also be taken as a "job". Your duty as a girl is to look good for the world and if you should fail to do so well enough than you are less than. (Make up INSTRUCTION BOOKS would be even MORE to that message. Better do it right, girl! And high-end, unattainable makeup brand Instruction Books really seem like an f'd up message to send to an impressionable young woman with meager means currently.)

 

[ame]

For the record: Never once did I say this would be in replacement to the gift card. This would be IN ADDITION TO a gift card which I would place inside the makeup bag so she could get WHATEVER SHE WANTED WITH IT while still getting a (hopefully) fun surprise. A book. More makeup. Deodorant. Feminine hygiene products. Socks. Clothes. Whatever.

And no, this is NOT all about me. This is purely about the person receiving the gift and the reason I thought of this was not to "sexualize" a child or replace some longing for a child of my own. It was to gift a girl who is 13 years old something she might want, and likely doesn't have the means to obtain without having to use the gift cards she gets to get those items. In theory this was to give her a good "starter set" so that when and if she does expand her makeup collection, beyond just these basics, she's not starting from scratch. I don't know why tomboys have to automatically NOT have an interest in how they look. It can go both ways.

If the parents choose to not pass the whole gift on to her, that's their prerogative. Her mom might be thrilled for her to receive it, and then they can have a lesson together and a fun time playing with it together.

ETA: Are you familiar with this book? If not go look at it. It's NOT like that. It's a book about self confidence. There's actually very little about makeup, or brands at all. Very little mention about her products even.