I''m almost wishing I hadn''t found this site...

[sumgonat]

Kelli,

Thanks for your comments. I know all too well that waiting for a ring to be fixed feels longer than it actually is. My BF presented me with the ring as a size 7, and I''m actually a size 4.5. We actually mailed my ring off about 2 hours after he proposed (on a Saturday morning). It took about 1 week for the ring to get back to BN (it was sent Priority, too) and another 2 weeks to be resized and then sent back to me (though they did overnight it to me). During that time, everyone wanted to see the ring, yet I had no ring to show; in fact, I just received it last Thursday.

Though I can see the appeal of "upgrading", that''s just not for me. This is such a big purchase, that I would have a hard time rationalizing spending the money on jewelry; I would much rather take a 1-2 week vacation with him. I''m glad he didn''t ask me to go around with him to pick a ring/stone, because I would feel terribly about him spending all that money. In fact, when he proposed, I started crying because I wanted him to put the money towards a car that he''s been wanting to buy for a long time.

I think he was probably in a rush to pick something out, since the proposal was around our 4 year anniversary, so he probably didn''t get to research the stone decision-making process as much as the setting.

I hope your stone turns out beautifully!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I''m just a little unclear why you have to buy the new stone from Blue Nile if you are within the 30 days?

 

[Kelli]

Date: 9/16/2008 5:48:49 PM
Author: sumgonat
Kelli,

Thanks for your comments. I know all too well that waiting for a ring to be fixed feels longer than it actually is. My BF presented me with the ring as a size 7, and I''m actually a size 4.5. We actually mailed my ring off about 2 hours after he proposed (on a Saturday morning). It took about 1 week for the ring to get back to BN (it was sent Priority, too) and another 2 weeks to be resized and then sent back to me (though they did overnight it to me). During that time, everyone wanted to see the ring, yet I had no ring to show; in fact, I just received it last Thursday.

Though I can see the appeal of ''upgrading'', that''s just not for me. This is such a big purchase, that I would have a hard time rationalizing spending the money on jewelry; I would much rather take a 1-2 week vacation with him. I''m glad he didn''t ask me to go around with him to pick a ring/stone, because I would feel terribly about him spending all that money. In fact, when he proposed, I started crying because I wanted him to put the money towards a car that he''s been wanting to buy for a long time.

I think he was probably in a rush to pick something out, since the proposal was around our 4 year anniversary, so he probably didn''t get to research the stone decision-making process as much as the setting.

I hope your stone turns out beautifully!

I hear you on the spending money thing! But I had waited over EIGHT years for the proposal, since we decided not to get engaged or married until after his college graduation and some fnancial stability. I was over the money spending guilt at that point, especially since I even chipped in a little bit so I didn''t have to wait longer! (We were broke for a long time and had to pay cash ''cause our credit sucked!) But I totally understand. Have you said anything yet, or decided if you''re going to ?

And thank you! I hope it turns out beautifully too, and I REALLY hope I hear that it''s done tomorrow!

 

[sumgonat]

Diamondseeker, I have to buy the stone at BN because the setting is from BN; you can't buy the setting separate from the stone. Plus, I do like the setting very much and my BF seems like he put a lot of effort into it.

Kelli,

I am still waiting to hear back on the stone I have on hold; if it's eye clean, I'll bring it up to my BF, and if it's not, I'll probably not say anything at all, unless I find something else. I have until tomorrow to return the ring, so I'm kind of running short on time.

Does anyone see anything troubling with the measurements of this stone:

Depth %: 61.9%
Table %: 55%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Medium
Culet: None
Fluorescence: Strong blue
Measurements: 6.55 x 6.50 x 4.04 mm
Crown Angle: 34.5
Pavilion Angle: 40.8
Crown Height: 15%
Pavilion Depth: 43%
LGF: 75%

HCA: 1.3

Thanks!

 

[stone-cold11]

I see what you mean. That one crystal cause it to be graded a SI2.

Another choice is this one. HCA 0.8 and excellent for everything. 1.02c H SI1 MB with most of the inclusions out of the table so less visible.

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-h-color-si1-clarity_LD01417740?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0

Hope your choice works out.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 9/17/2008 6:14:50 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
I see what you mean. That one crystal cause it to be graded a SI2.

Another choice is this one. HCA 0.8 and excellent for everything. 1.02c H SI1 MB with most of the inclusions out of the table so less visible.

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-h-color-si1-clarity_LD01417740?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0

Hope your choice works out.

This one is not that well cut. The one posted above is better cut.

 

[stone-cold11]

Cut graded by GIA doesn''t matter. HCA score is the cut grade because that determines light performance. The cut express there is just what GIA defines as it''s ideal cut which could go up to a HCA of 4-5 and misses out some of the ideal cut available. Look at the HCA plot and you can see that a large portion of the brighter colors are actually graded below very good cut.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Generally, you want to fall into these measurements:

table 54-57

depth 60-62

crown angle 34-35

pavilion angle 40.6-41.0

You want very good to excellent for polish and symmetry.

Here is a very nice one:

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-g-color-vs2-clarity_LD01412433?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0

 

[stone-cold11]

As you say, generally. There are cuts that are outside as my example shows and still within TIC parameters and excellent light performance and size.

Your suggestion dimension is 6.53-6.57 x 3.94 for a 1.02ct.Polish/Sym Ex/Ex

60.2% depth, 58% table, 32.5° crown angle, 41° pavilion angle = HCA 0.8, Ex, Ex, Ex, Ex.

Your suggestion dimension is 6.43-6.49 x 4.01 for a 1.01ct. Polish/Sym VG/VG

62.1% depth, 55% table, 34.5° crown angle, 40.8° pavilion angle = HCA 1.3, Ex, Ex, Ex, Vg.

Your dimensions are the standard ideal dimension, AGA class 1A cut? Using HCA will reveal other possible cuts that give ideal performance but rated poorly in traditional system. My suggestion also has a larger diameter for almost the same weight. This also has the added benefit of a cheaper diamond because it''s cut grade is only very good while in actual fact it is ideal. Also your suggestion I think is over sumgonat''s budget. Her suggested diamond is in the $5.3k range.

 

[KenS]

Not many people are aware that cut is the most important factor when selecting a diamond. Moreover, the cut grade can be confusing as well. You have very good, excellent and ideal (and BN even has superideal). Notice that there''s no *poor* cut grade, only "fair" as lowest grade. Average consumers would take it literally that very good means very good which should be good enough when they have the rest of 4 Cs to weight in as well. From my experience, I was totally lost until I''ve found this site so I don''t think your fiance should be blamed on it even though I think he should have taken a little more time reseaching on the diamond.

That said, you need to see a diamond with really good cut to see how diffrent a well-cut diamond makes. Usually people will think their diamonds are sparkle or beautiful and all that until they see a well-cut diamond that blows their mind and then they are totally converted. You have to see it to believe it. I''m not saying that your diamond is poor cut but you need to see it to decide whether the diffrence is tolerable.

 

[Kelli]

Date: 9/17/2008 3:33:46 PM
Author: sumgonat
Diamondseeker, I have to buy the stone at BN because the setting is from BN; you can''t buy the setting separate from the stone. Plus, I do like the setting very much and my BF seems like he put a lot of effort into it.

Kelli,

I am still waiting to hear back on the stone I have on hold; if it''s eye clean, I''ll bring it up to my BF, and if it''s not, I''ll probably not say anything at all, unless I find something else. I have until tomorrow to return the ring, so I''m kind of running short on time.

Does anyone see anything troubling with the measurements of this stone:

Depth %: 61.9%
Table %: 55%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Medium
Culet: None
Fluorescence: Strong blue
Measurements: 6.55 x 6.50 x 4.04 mm
Crown Angle: 34.5
Pavilion Angle: 40.8
Crown Height: 15%
Pavilion Depth: 43%
LGF: 75%

HCA: 1.3

Thanks!

I think this one looks very promising!

 

[:)]

Hi Sumgonat - some thoughts... The fact that he did this all on his own without specifically asking you indicates (at least to me) that this was probably important to him to do this entirely as a gift to you. He was probably very excited about the surprise. I am going to go against the grain here and recommend that you actually consider not returning it - I have a feeling it will end up causing some hurt feelings that will ultimately make you feel bad then for hurting him (and may potentially even result in you not receiving other gifts down the road because he may feel like he is unable to please you!) It is so easy to get obsessed with perfection, esp when you are staring at your stone all day! Storm has given you expert analysis (I have faith in his evaluation!) - it sounds like the stone although not 'perfection' is a gift from his heart with the best of intentions, and still can be a real looker - and you have already said that the stone sparkles beautifully and you have gotten many sincere compliments. Sorry to be a downer, I just would hate to hurt him and see this instance as potentially heading for pain - who knows he may buy you another diamond another time (maybe you could make your current one a pendant and get a new anniversary ring down the road!! Good luck with your decision - only you can make what you think is the right one - you sound like a very sweet person!

 

[frostbyte3964]

The diamond you found has much more ideal parameters so more of a chance to look good. The only thing I''d be curious about is the Strong blue. You might like it better if it doesn''t cause any bad side effects. Definitely worth looking at and kind of cool to view in black light. ^_^

I''d say if he''s like most guys, he was way more concerned with picking out the setting than the actual diamond.

Exchange it for one you are happy with.

I''d go with ideal cut before HCA #''s, but if you can get both then even better chance of a good looking ring.

 

[Kelli]

Date: 9/18/2008 10:58:10 AM
Author: frostbyte3964
The diamond you found has much more ideal parameters so more of a chance to look good. The only thing I''d be curious about is the Strong blue. You might like it better if it doesn''t cause any bad side effects. Definitely worth looking at and kind of cool to view in black light. ^_^

I''d say if he''s like most guys, he was way more concerned with picking out the setting than the actual diamond.

Exchange it for one you are happy with.

I''d go with ideal cut before HCA #''s, but if you can get both then even better chance of a good looking ring.

I chose a GIA triple excellent that had poor HCA numbers. I sure wish I hadn''t. Not all excellents or "ideals" are very good, you definitely need to use the cut advisor to weed out bad ones like mine.

 

[stone-cold11]

Or to get a better deal but finding one that score good with HCA but rated below traditional ideal cut.

 

[motownmama]

I want to put in my vote for NOT saying anything about returning the ring - this is his gift to you and I feel rejecting it is rejecting (a small) part of him too. People aren''t perfect and neither are diamonds - but this is the one he proposed with - don''t burst his balloon now. There''s lots of varying opinions on this subject here on PS. Good luck making the decision on what''s right for you.

 

[John P]

Date: 9/17/2008 8:44:27 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
As you say, generally. There are cuts that are outside as my example shows and still within TIC parameters and excellent light performance and size.

Your suggestion dimension is 6.53-6.57 x 3.94 for a 1.02ct.Polish/Sym Ex/Ex

60.2% depth, 58% table, 32.5° crown angle, 41° pavilion angle = HCA 0.8, Ex, Ex, Ex, Ex.

Your suggestion dimension is 6.43-6.49 x 4.01 for a 1.01ct. Polish/Sym VG/VG

62.1% depth, 55% table, 34.5° crown angle, 40.8° pavilion angle = HCA 1.3, Ex, Ex, Ex, Vg.

Your dimensions are the standard ideal dimension, AGA class 1A cut? Using HCA will reveal other possible cuts that give ideal performance but rated poorly in traditional system. My suggestion also has a larger diameter for almost the same weight. This also has the added benefit of a cheaper diamond because it's cut grade is only very good while in actual fact it is ideal. Also your suggestion I think is over sumgonat's budget. Her suggested diamond is in the $5.3k range.

Hi Stone-cold,

I have been following your comments and just wanted to voice that, once you're under 2.0, a lower number on the HCA does not imply better: All diamonds under 2.0 are considered equal.

So the example you give at HCA 0.8 (58,32.5,41.0) is not superior to the HCA 1.3 example (55,34.5,40., it will simply have different features: The HCA 0.8 diamond has slightly more spread (6.56 vs 6.46) but it also has a crown height of only 13.5%. There are many people who like the look of a near-Tolkowsky crown height as there will be a greater balance of dispersion/fire. All aspects should be considered. There is a slight difference in lower halves that could impact taste as well - depending on how much rounding was done by GIA - as well as things like clarity features and sbf vs mbf.

I am a huge HCA fan but remember that it's a tool for rejection not selection. I do agree with you about the perils of the GIA EX range by the way.

Sorry for the threadjack.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 9/17/2008 11:42:17 PM
Author:
Hi Sumgonat - some thoughts... The fact that he did this all on his own without specifically asking you indicates (at least to me) that this was probably important to him to do this entirely as a gift to you. He was probably very excited about the surprise. I am going to go against the grain here and recommend that you actually consider not returning it - I have a feeling it will end up causing some hurt feelings that will ultimately make you feel bad then for hurting him (and may potentially even result in you not receiving other gifts down the road because he may feel like he is unable to please you!) It is so easy to get obsessed with perfection, esp when you are staring at your stone all day! Storm has given you expert analysis (I have faith in his evaluation!) - it sounds like the stone although not ''perfection'' is a gift from his heart with the best of intentions, and still can be a real looker - and you have already said that the stone sparkles beautifully and you have gotten many sincere compliments. Sorry to be a downer, I just would hate to hurt him and see this instance as potentially heading for pain - who knows he may buy you another diamond another time (maybe you could make your current one a pendant and get a new anniversary ring down the road!! Good luck with your decision - only you can make what you think is the right one - you sound like a very sweet person!

Hi Sum,

I think L has some valid points...You obviously know your fiance best, but I would broach the subject very carefully of returning the diamond to avoid hurting him as it could be a very sensitive area for him. But I wish you the best of luck whatever you decide!

 

[stone-cold11]

John, yes, I know that anything below 2 is an excellent performing stone.

I am just using it to find stones that are excellent performer but graded non-ideal because of the simple fact that their geometry is not in the traditional TIC range. Probably just different fire and brightness distribution that the TIC because of it smaller crown depth, but on HCA it is graded as excellent for both and the same as the case for the tradtional cut, so if I am on a budget, I would more likely try that out first. Just my 2 cts.

 

[sumgonat]

Thanks, again, for everyone''s replies.

Last night, I decided to bring up the issue of switching the stones out with my BF and he thought it was a good idea, especially when I explained about the importance of cut quality. He also shared that he spent a week looking for the stone, and he was pleased that I could find something that matched the same parameters of the stone he picked out, but with a better cut quality (and $40 cheaper

). His feelings weren''t hurt one bit, and he seemed excited about the new stone.

.

So, here is what I ended up with:

1.05ct, F, VS2, GIA Excellent
Depth %: 61.9%
Table %: 55%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Medium
Culet: None
Fluorescence: Strong blue
Measurements: 6.55 x 6.50 x 4.04 mm
Crown Angle: 34.5
Pavilion Angle: 40.8
Crown Height: 15%
Pavilion Depth: 43%
LGF: 75%

HCA: 1.3

The issue of the strong fluorescence was a factor to consider, but my current ring has a stone with medium fluorescence and it doesn''t bother me at all; most of the time, I don''t even notice it and when I do, I find it aesthetically pleasing. Strong blue fluorescence might be a bit more interesting, but I don''t think it will prove to be a problem. BN has a good 30-day return policy, so, if for some reason I don''t like the new one, I can begin the journey all over again.

Thanks, again!

 

[Kelli]

Awesome! I was just about to say maybe I was wrong in saying to ask about it. In my case I guess it was different because I picked out my own stone. But great news and I''m gald he wasn''t offended! I would love the fluorescence, make sure to post pics when you get it!

 

[stone-cold11]

 

[Lorelei]

Well then thats excellent and the new diamond looks great!

 

[stone-cold11]

To Kelli, how much does it cost to re-cut your diamond? Just wondering if it is worth it to re-cut my HCA 3.2 GIA graded ideal stone, only 0.56c...

Sorry for another threadjack.

 

[John P]

Date: 9/18/2008 1:54:03 PM
Author: sumgonat
Thanks, again, for everyone''s replies.

Last night, I decided to bring up the issue of switching the stones out with my BF and he thought it was a good idea, especially when I explained about the importance of cut quality. He also shared that he spent a week looking for the stone, and he was pleased that I could find something that matched the same parameters of the stone he picked out, but with a better cut quality (and $40 cheaper

). His feelings weren''t hurt one bit, and he seemed excited about the new stone.

.

So, here is what I ended up with:

1.05ct, F, VS2, GIA Excellent
Depth %: 61.9%
Table %: 55%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Medium
Culet: None
Fluorescence: Strong blue
Measurements: 6.55 x 6.50 x 4.04 mm
Crown Angle: 34.5
Pavilion Angle: 40.8
Crown Height: 15%
Pavilion Depth: 43%
LGF: 75%

HCA: 1.3

The issue of the strong fluorescence was a factor to consider, but my current ring has a stone with medium fluorescence and it doesn''t bother me at all; most of the time, I don''t even notice it and when I do, I find it aesthetically pleasing. Strong blue fluorescence might be a bit more interesting, but I don''t think it will prove to be a problem. BN has a good 30-day return policy, so, if for some reason I don''t like the new one, I can begin the journey all over again.

Thanks, again!

Sounds like you guys have a great relationship. Congrats on the new VS2 with blue. Let us know how groovy it looks in the dance clubs. I used to have a D with mbf and loved to check it out under ''boogielight.''

 

[John P]

Date: 9/18/2008 1:32:32 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
John, yes, I know that anything below 2 is an excellent performing stone.

I am just using it to find stones that are excellent performer but graded non-ideal because of the simple fact that their geometry is not in the traditional TIC range. Probably just different fire and brightness distribution that the TIC because of it smaller crown depth, but on HCA it is graded as excellent for both and the same as the case for the tradtional cut, so if I am on a budget, I would more likely try that out first. Just my 2 cts.

Cool Stone-cold. Remember that today's Ideal grade (from AGS) is based on actual light performance, not the "TIC" range... So you can find numerous AGS Ideal stones which have the low HCA numbers you like. GIA EX is a bit different since it's based on proportions. And, as I think you know, their range does not agree with the low end of HCA so some HCA proportions sets <1.0 will receive VG, while some GIA EX come out well above 2.0 on the HCA.

 

[:)]

Date: 9/18/2008 1:54:03 PM
Author: sumgonat
Thanks, again, for everyone''s replies.

Last night, I decided to bring up the issue of switching the stones out with my BF and he thought it was a good idea, especially when I explained about the importance of cut quality. He also shared that he spent a week looking for the stone, and he was pleased that I could find something that matched the same parameters of the stone he picked out, but with a better cut quality (and $40 cheaper

). His feelings weren''t hurt one bit, and he seemed excited about the new stone.

.

So, here is what I ended up with:

1.05ct, F, VS2, GIA Excellent
Depth %: 61.9%
Table %: 55%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Medium
Culet: None
Fluorescence: Strong blue
Measurements: 6.55 x 6.50 x 4.04 mm
Crown Angle: 34.5
Pavilion Angle: 40.8
Crown Height: 15%
Pavilion Depth: 43%
LGF: 75%

HCA: 1.3

The issue of the strong fluorescence was a factor to consider, but my current ring has a stone with medium fluorescence and it doesn''t bother me at all; most of the time, I don''t even notice it and when I do, I find it aesthetically pleasing. Strong blue fluorescence might be a bit more interesting, but I don''t think it will prove to be a problem. BN has a good 30-day return policy, so, if for some reason I don''t like the new one, I can begin the journey all over again.

Thanks, again!

That''s awesome!! I am glad my worry was for naught! I am excited for you - please post pics when you get your finished ring! Congrats!!!

p.s. I have strong blue fluoro too and I love it!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The one you chose has great measurements!

I hope you really love this one! Please come back with pictures for us!

(And thanks, John!)

 

[Fly Girl]

Date: 9/18/2008 1:54:03 PM
Author: sumgonat
Thanks, again, for everyone''s replies.

Last night, I decided to bring up the issue of switching the stones out with my BF and he thought it was a good idea, especially when I explained about the importance of cut quality. He also shared that he spent a week looking for the stone, and he was pleased that I could find something that matched the same parameters of the stone he picked out, but with a better cut quality (and $40 cheaper

). His feelings weren''t hurt one bit, and he seemed excited about the new stone.

.

So, here is what I ended up with:

1.05ct, F, VS2, GIA Excellent
Depth %: 61.9%
Table %: 55%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Medium
Culet: None
Fluorescence: Strong blue
Measurements: 6.55 x 6.50 x 4.04 mm
Crown Angle: 34.5
Pavilion Angle: 40.8
Crown Height: 15%
Pavilion Depth: 43%
LGF: 75%

HCA: 1.3

The issue of the strong fluorescence was a factor to consider, but my current ring has a stone with medium fluorescence and it doesn''t bother me at all; most of the time, I don''t even notice it and when I do, I find it aesthetically pleasing. Strong blue fluorescence might be a bit more interesting, but I don''t think it will prove to be a problem. BN has a good 30-day return policy, so, if for some reason I don''t like the new one, I can begin the journey all over again.

Thanks, again!

Excellent!!!

That is going to be a gorgeous stone!!!

So glad you talked to him. That''s the way it should be. Congratulations on your engagement, and if this is any guide, I predict a long and happy marriage for you two!!!

 

[sumgonat]

Hi everyone,

I thought I would pop in for a quick update.

I just received my new ring this morning and it's definitely quite an improvement over the last one (not that the other one was so bad--it was nice, too)!

There is definitely much more fire, scintillation, contrast, and brightness (no more dullness in the center of the diamond). I am so relieved everything turned out well--I spent the last week pouring over old posts in the forum because this diamond ended up costing less than the last and I was getting more and more paranoid as the days passed. I had been wondering if it was because of the strong blue fluorescence (i.e. potential milkiness), clarity (there are 2 crystals directly under the table), or some other variable that wasn't or can't be captured by the small amount of info BN provides. My hands were actually shaking as I opened the box this morning, but everything turned out terrific. BN also gave me a new setting (I didn't ask for this), which I'm happy about because some of the milgrain detailing was a bit off on one of the channel settings of the old ring and this new one is perfect.

Thanks so much for everyone's input and all of the vendors, appraisers, and consumers who spend time here answering questions and debating the differences between PA angles and LGF lengths! I really am glad I found this place.

P.S.: I'll try to take some pictures over the weekend and post them in the thread. Also, for those who are interested in the strong blue fluorescence effect in sunlight, it's just a teeny, tiny bit more blue than the previous diamond that I had with medium fluorescence--it's really not that much of a noticeable of a difference--and it's still beautiful to me.