How would you rate this included Orange Sapphire?

[chictomato]

Hi there how would you rate this Orange sapphire? it measure approx. 11X9mm around 4.5 carat. Probably heated, uncertain. Natural. Does the inclusion means that it is not treated? How do I tell if it has been heated or not. The orange is nice (well from my inexperience eyes;p) seems well cut, has a slight window (it closes when I placed it in a mount). How much will a natural orange sapphire of this grade cost per carat? I can see this cloudy swirls (as shown in pict) and a little black dot under a 10x loupe. I can only see the little black dot with unaided eyes and very faint ''cloudy swirl''.tks!

 

[chictomato]

 

[chictomato]

 

[chictomato]

 

[chictomato]

side

 

[chictomato]

Looking VERY CLEAN .... from the back...

 

[chrono]

I am afraid it's not a good quality orange sapphire, regardless of treatment or lack of. Inclusions have nothing to do with it being heated or unheated. There are included stones that have been totally untreated, heated or even BE diffused. Unless you have a high powered loupe or microscope, only can you see signs of heating (internal structure changes). The saturation appears lacking and somewhat brownish. The swirls look to possibly be inclusions.

 

[jewelz617]

I''m not loving the color, it seems... muddy? I think you could do better if you keep searching.

 

[marcy]

I think you can find a nicer orange sapphire. I think this one is pretty cloudy.

 

[T L]

I'm afraid to say that almost all orange sapphires you see on the market today are diffused since they are exceptionately rare. The color of the stone prior to treatment is usually grey or some undesirable color . I would not bother, unless you like the color a lot, it's very inexpensive (not more than $25), and the treatment does not bother you. Diffused stones can have inclusions, so that's not an indicator of non-treatment.

 

[chictomato]

hi there more photos Real life, no worry I did not pay a single cent for it

 

[chictomato]

ais it any better? or just as bad.. heehee

 

[Arcadian]

Date: 1/14/2010 11:38:53 PM
Author: chictomato
hi there more photos Real life, no worry I did not pay a single cent for it

you didn''t pay huh? well its GORGEOUS then! LOL

Ok in all seriousness, it does look better in full daylight, but I have to admit for myself, I''d rather have a spessartite garnet instead. It looks like a fun stone but not really a setting stone.

In your earlier pictures, were they taken through a loupe?

-A

 

[chictomato]

Date: 1/14/2010 11:48:21 PM
Author: Arcadian

Date: 1/14/2010 11:38:53 PM

Author: chictomato

hi there more photos Real life, no worry I did not pay a single cent for it

you didn't pay huh? well its GORGEOUS then! LOL


Ok in all seriousness, it does look better in full daylight, but I have to admit for myself, I'd rather have a spessartite garnet instead. It looks like a fun stone but not really a setting stone.


In your earlier pictures, were they taken through a loupe?


-A

Yes Arcadian its thru a 10x loupe, without flash, its really not that dull, muddy wash out orange I wanted to show the inclusions as clearly as possible. This is actually from a high-end private jeweller, and of cos this will not be selling in the shop, he passes all the 'rejected' stones to me since I wanted to know more I thought the color is pretty without any brown. So wanna seek more advices from you guys Just to add, its 5.33 carat, natural yellow sapphire according to him But I thought it looks orange to me...can I have more comments pls! tks in advance

 

[chictomato]

Hi all! Should this yellow?/ orange? sapphire be proven untreated or BE diffused (maybe just heated alone). Do you think its worth working on finding it a ''home'' or you wanna just say '' come on , pass this gravel''...

 

[chictomato]

last one!

 

[Nomsdeplume]

It looks better in the last pics but I still don''t think I would be willing to pay a lot of money for it.

 

[virgoruby]

Did you say you didn''t pay a single cent on the stone? - so your jeweller gave it away??
If that was the case, then lucky you for getting it free! The stone looks a lot better in the last pics.
If you like the colour, then why not set it in an inexpensive setting?

 

[chictomato]

Date: 1/15/2010 7:23:54 AM
Author: virgoruby
Did you say you didn''t pay a single cent on the stone? - so your jeweller gave it away??
If that was the case, then lucky you for getting it free! The stone looks a lot better in the last pics.
If you like the colour, then why not set it in an inexpensive setting?

Tks! Yep, it free the last 3 picts color is close to the stone IRL. I was wondering if its proven untreated is it worth a recut? The jeweller said that its a 5.33 carat natural yellow sapphire (heated), although it looks orange to me Is this really bad (other than the inclusion)?What should the ideal color be for a yellow/ orange sapphire?

 

[chrono]

It looks better in your new batch of pictures but still doesn’t look like a fine orange sapphire. It can be considered nice enough if the price is right. I am still able to clearly pick out the large window in the stone in all your pictures of it on your hand. It isn’t as easy to “close” a window in a light coloured and light toned stone. From the first batch of pictures, the stone is shallow and not a candidate for a recut because the weight loss will be too great, not to mention all the inclusions that have to be worked around. If you are interested in it, it is very important to have a reputable lab determine if it is untreated. However, if it is free, it''s worth keeping as a study stone and there is no need to determine treatment.

 

[virgoruby]

Even if it''s going to be a ''study'' stone, wouldn''t it be interesting (& educational) to find out what treatments the sapphire went through? (I, for one, am curious about it.. )
Is there any reputable lab near you that would give you enough info on heat/ BE diffusion, yet on the cheap?

 

[chrono]

Date: 1/15/2010 8:19:24 AM
Author: virgoruby
Even if it''s going to be a ''study'' stone, wouldn''t it be interesting (& educational) to find out what treatments the sapphire went through? (I, for one, am curious about it.. )
Is there any reputable lab near you that would give you enough info on heat/ BE diffusion, yet on the cheap?

In the US, all lab testing isn’t cheap. GIA and AGL certification will run around $100 to $200. If going to Asia, I recommend AIGS which does a very comprehensive brief for only $25.

 

[virgoruby]

Date: 1/15/2010 8:24:44 AM
Author: Chrono

Date: 1/15/2010 8:19:24 AM

Author: virgoruby

Even if it''s going to be a ''study'' stone, wouldn''t it be interesting (& educational) to find out what treatments the sapphire went through? (I, for one, am curious about it.. )

Is there any reputable lab near you that would give you enough info on heat/ BE diffusion, yet on the cheap?

In the US, all lab testing isn’t cheap. GIA and AGL certification will run around $100 to $200. If going to Asia, I recommend AIGS which does a very comprehensive brief for only $25.

Chrono - Thanks for your helpful comments (as always!)

 

[morecarats]

We see these large, heavily included, muddy orange sapphires regularly in Thailand. They are almost always Be-diffused. They are not really gem-quality stones, so if we have any we usually donate them to mineral clubs, since they can''t really be sold (though some low lifes might try to sell them to unsuspecting buyers on eBay). These sorts of stones are just a reminder of the difference between minerals and gemstones. I think you paid a fair price for it.

 

[chictomato]

Date: 1/15/2010 8:37:26 AM
Author: morecarats
We see these large, heavily included, muddy orange sapphires regularly in Thailand. They are almost always Be-diffused. They are not really gem-quality stones, so if we have any we usually donate them to mineral clubs, since they can't really be sold (though some low lifes might try to sell them to unsuspecting buyers on eBay). These sorts of stones are just a reminder of the difference between minerals and gemstones. I think you paid a fair price for it.

Hi all tks to the reply! It was pass to me for free as a 'study' stone, but I just felt that the color is pretty, hence posted it for more advices. I know of a stone-cutter that does real inexpensive recut (like US20). I was just thinking if its worthy of a 'facelift' I was told that its heat treated only. But I am really curious to know what sort of treatment it has gone thru before too just like some of you guys out there

I am from Singapore, AIGS is base is Thailand. I should say our most reputable lab is Nanyang Gemological Institute. I think he charges US30 for (verbal) grading. But I do not think that I am gonna spend the $$ giving it a recut As I am curious as some of you guys out there, maybe I will take it for a (verbal) grading

 

[chictomato]

Date: 1/15/2010 8:19:24 AM
Author: virgoruby
Even if it''s going to be a ''study'' stone, wouldn''t it be interesting (& educational) to find out what treatments the sapphire went through? (I, for one, am curious about it.. )

Is there any reputable lab near you that would give you enough info on heat/ BE diffusion, yet on the cheap?

YES I am keen to know too is US30 consider cheap for a verbal report?

 

[chrono]

Date: 1/15/2010 10:35:00 AM
Author: chictomato
Hi all tks to the reply! It was pass to me for free as a ''study'' stone, but I just felt that the color is pretty, hence posted it for more advices. I know of a stone-cutter that does real inexpensive recut (like US20). I was just thinking if its worthy of a ''facelift'' I was told that its heat treated only. But I am really curious to know what sort of treatment it has gone thru before too just like some of you guys out there

I am from Singapore, AIGS is base is Thailand. I should say our most reputable lab is Nanyang Gemological Institute. I think he charges US30 for (verbal) grading. But I do not think that I am gonna spend the $$ giving it a recut As I am curious as some of you guys out there, maybe I will take it for a (verbal) grading

This stone is most likely a poor candidate for a recut. It is very shallow and has too many inclusions; when cutting, it is also highly likely that the fractures will “grow” and you may end up with a 0.5 ct stone. Not only that, as the size decreases, so does the saturation so you may also end up with an orange sapphire significantly browner that it is at the moment. I would leave it as it is even though a recut is inexpensive. If it was indeed heat treated only, I’m not so sure he’ll give away so easily as a freebie.

 

[Arcadian]

Date: 1/14/2010 11:54:57 PM
Author: chictomato

Date: 1/14/2010 11:48:21 PM
Author: Arcadian

Date: 1/14/2010 11:38:53 PM

Author: chictomato

hi there more photos Real life, no worry I did not pay a single cent for it

you didn''t pay huh? well its GORGEOUS then! LOL


Ok in all seriousness, it does look better in full daylight, but I have to admit for myself, I''d rather have a spessartite garnet instead. It looks like a fun stone but not really a setting stone.


In your earlier pictures, were they taken through a loupe?


-A

Yes Arcadian its thru a 10x loupe, without flash, its really not that dull, muddy wash out orange I wanted to show the inclusions as clearly as possible. This is actually from a high-end private jeweller, and of cos this will not be selling in the shop, he passes all the ''rejected'' stones to me since I wanted to know more I thought the color is pretty without any brown. So wanna seek more advices from you guys Just to add, its 5.33 carat, natural yellow sapphire according to him But I thought it looks orange to me...can I have more comments pls! tks in advance

YELLOW sapphire?

that looks way orange! the color and the cut is possibly why it won''t sell.
Since it was free to you, that sort of makes it a win win situation!

Since I see it as an ORANGE sapphire, its definitly mixed with something; maybe a little brown and pink/red/whatever.

If you wanted to set it, I would suggest something really inexpensive and cute in silver. Pendant maybe?


-A

 

[chictomato]

Date: 1/15/2010 12:09:17 PM
Author: Chrono

Date: 1/15/2010 10:35:00 AM

Author: chictomato

Hi all tks to the reply! It was pass to me for free as a ''study'' stone, but I just felt that the color is pretty, hence posted it for more advices. I know of a stone-cutter that does real inexpensive recut (like US20). I was just thinking if its worthy of a ''facelift'' I was told that its heat treated only. But I am really curious to know what sort of treatment it has gone thru before too just like some of you guys out there

I am from Singapore, AIGS is base is Thailand. I should say our most reputable lab is Nanyang Gemological Institute. I think he charges US30 for (verbal) grading. But I do not think that I am gonna spend the $$ giving it a recut As I am curious as some of you guys out there, maybe I will take it for a (verbal) grading

This stone is most likely a poor candidate for a recut. It is very shallow and has too many inclusions; when cutting, it is also highly likely that the fractures will “grow” and you may end up with a 0.5 ct stone. Not only that, as the size decreases, so does the saturation so you may also end up with an orange sapphire significantly browner that it is at the moment. I would leave it as it is even though a recut is inexpensive. If it was indeed heat treated only, I’m not so sure he’ll give away so easily as a freebie.

Thanks to all the replies! I guess that I shall bring it along for a verbal report when I send in my spinel for an assessment. I need to satisfy my curiosity

 

[Nacre]

Morecarats, can you see crackle quenching flux healed here?

Those veils look very chicken wirey to me...

Chictomato, it would be great to hear back from you if it''s a synth or nat Be treated!