How much gold?

[MAC-W]

Hi experts,

can I get your opinion on how much gold you think would be involved in this ring design? (the half besel would be rose gold and the ring would be 10K white gold)

I'm looking at this design for my paprika spessartite that hubby got me for Christmas and have had a quote from a local jeweller to manufacture this.

I also managed to sneak a look at his RB diamond prices (Oops it was an accident, honest

) - much much cheaper than anything I've found on the internet, but not sure about the cut quality

The overall price he quoted for the diamonds, gold and manufacturing costs seemed a little high to me, and given I know the diamond cost and can deduct that from the total, I'm now looking to find the gold price so I can get a true reflection of his manuf cost and decide if it's fair or if its something I'm willing to pay.

Hope you can help

Thanks
Mac

 

[D&T]

purely from a consumer standpoint, if its custom made, Iwould expect it be be over $1000 at least with the diamonds, I've had stuller quotes with diamonds, and it was about $900 so I would guess anything custom with diamonds to be well over $1000 from US jewelers. just my opinion though

 

[ma re]

There''s so many factors involved in pricing that I believe the best thing you can do is request quotes from several jewellers. That''ll probably give you some indication, while everything else is just pure guessing. Also, remember that it''s better to pay for a gram or two more of gold, than to have the gem (that you''ve been looking for, possibly, quite long) fall out of it''s mounting. Quality workmanship also costs money due to more time and attention given to the process, so a lower price doesen''t necessarily mean something good for you.

 

[Arkteia]

Question is, do you intend to wear it? Since it was your hubby who gave it to you I assume it is not for resale.

Then, do you like the setting? If you plan to wear it, you have to think of getting the best setting that you''ll enjoy looking at day by day (even if you do not plan to wear it daily) and not getting bored or tired of. If we are talking 2-3 K you might think, but I''d say, anything below 1.5 K is OK because the price of gold is going to go up, not down.

The setting looks interesting, nothing extra, modern and stylish. Do you like the diamonds? (Sorry, I do not know what RB is - does it have to do with Rappaport scale, or is it something different?)

 

[Michael_E]

Date: 1/15/2010 10:23:38 AM
Author:MAC-W
I''m now looking to find the gold price so I can get a true reflection of his manuf cost and decide if it''s fair or if its something I''m willing to pay.

Mac

Hi Mac,
How on earth will you arrive at a manufacturing cost from the gold cost and decide what would make it "fair" ? This would be nearly impossible to figure out from your standpoint because you don''t have any idea what all of the other costs involved in this business are. As a custom jewelry maker I guarantee you that the cost of the materials making up any piece of jewelry are a fraction of the total cost of producing that piece. In doing custom work the cost of the materials is often 25% of the total cost of making the piece and that number can often be smaller depending on how time consuming a piece and a client are. A very particular client can take up a huge number of hours in the time required to make changes, do renders, make phone calls, etc. Then you have the time involved in actually making the piece. On top of that you have a HUGE burden of overhead...rent, advertising, taxes, etc. Because of the large number of variables involved in all of the overhead costs for any business, depending on their location and all of the surrounding "stuff", I would say that you would be wasting your time trying to figure out what is "fair" and simply decide if you''re willing to pay the asking price or try to go to another manufacturer who can offer the piece at a lower cost.

Keep in mind that when pressing for the lowest possible pricing that you are also forcing a lower level of all the other "stuff" involved in making and selling a piece of jewelry. This can mean lower quality, lower attention to detail, less attentive customer service, lower number of choices and, if enough people in your local area choose this route, the possible reduction in your local jewelers business to the point of closing.

 

[haagen_dazs]

wise viewpoint from michael e

 

[Arkteia]

MAC-W,

Are you in Sydney by any chance? Because I just posted my saga about buying a Burmese ruby rung from a huge jeweller house in Australia. It was Sydney. Something in the setting of your diamonds remiinds me of my ring. Can you go back to my post, "my gems" (it was in December) and look at my ruby ring? Are you diamonds channel-set in the same way?

If they are, can you please tell me? Then I shall tell you who my jeweller was. If it is the same...I am not going to disclose his name so far - if you are not in Sydney, the chance is slim, and I do not want to influence your decision.

 

[Arkteia]

MAC-W,

Forget what I just said. I looked up the website of the jeweller you are planning to use. Well, you see, he is a custom designer with awards. It always costs more, but I liked his designs.

 

[MAC-W]

Hi everyone,
thanks for your replies. You all raise very good points

The quote I had was A$2400 which at todays rates is about $2200 US. The diamonds would account for about $350 of that.

MaRe - I have an appointment next week with another custom jeweller for exactly the reason you stated,

Crasru, yes I intend to wear it. Hubbys present was the stone plus paying for the custom setting of my choice, so there will be absolutely no resale. PS Yes the diamonds are channel set. I''m in Perth not Sydney, but thanks for the offer.

Michael - I know exactly what you are saying and believe me I''m more than happy to pay a bit extra to get a good job done but equally I want to think I''m getting ''value for money''. The first quote I got was from a one man operation without a "store", whereas the one next week has a jewellery store as well so I''m thinking that quote might be a bit higher for exactly the reasons you stated. The chap I had the quote from this week has custom-made a ring for me before and I was happy with what he did, but this price just seems a bit high when I compare the two ring styles etc... I guess I was just looking for a bit a of reassurance. Regarding me as a client, I''ve been told I''m not bad - once the specs etc are sorted I just let people get on and do their job with no interference, I dont need to get renders or progress reports etc, but for getting the specs locked down I''m a bit of a nightmare

Even so it normally takes less than an hour of discussion before its all agreed and the deposit is paid. Given all the variables you''ve mentioned, can I ask you as a custom jewellery maker does the price quoted seem OK to you for this style of ring?


Mac

 

[Michael_E]

Date: 1/15/2010 8:49:58 PM
Author: MAC-W

Regarding me as a client, I''ve been told I''m not bad - once the specs etc are sorted I just let people get on and do their job with no interference, I dont need to get renders or progress reports etc, but for getting the specs locked down I''m a bit of a nightmare

Even so it normally takes less than an hour of discussion before its all agreed and the deposit is paid.

You sound like you''d be exceptionally easy to work with, so they can''t be charging in anticipation of a lot of talking time. I think they ought to pay you for being so easy !

Given all the variables you''ve mentioned, can I ask you as a custom jewellery maker does the price quoted seem OK to you for this style of ring?

This is the way that I approach this sort of design. First the diamonds, what quality and how heavy ? In the US these melee and setting charges would cost the client from $1000 to $1500 per carat, ($350 seems a bit low for top quality diamonds and setting work in that setting). Setting charges are higher for smaller stones since there are usually a lot of them and they take up quite a bit of shop time. Next the metal work. This setting is two tone and so would require two molds, but the metalwork is in 10K so less expensive there. This would cost from about $650 to maybe $900 depending on whether it was cast or hand made from raw materials. It looks to me like you have about 1/2 carat of melee so if we go with the top prices mentioned this ring would cost about $1700...at least in my town.

I must say however that it all depends on who you are and where you''re buying. I did the CAD''s on this piece for a jeweler in a nearby tourist area and will be setting the diamonds for her next week. Her shop is very upscale and her client is very well to do. Her client is providing the center stone and I think that there''s probably 1 carat of other melee in this piece. When I asked what the total cost to the client would be, I was told that it would be over $4000. Now I have to admit that this jewelers overhead costs are quite high due to their location and the need for a staff, but I thought that they were joking with me when they said that. There are people to whom a few thousand dollars is pocket change...I just wish that I was working for them !

 

[Michael_E]

Let''s try that picture again.

 

[MAC-W]

Hi Michael,
Thanks for replying so quickly.

The price sheet I managed to sneak a look at had US$815 per carat for F/G VS for stones under (I think) 0.1ct. I dont know the cut quality. Mark suggested I would need 7, 5, 3 & 2 points for each side. The price sheet also had 0.8 as the exchange rate US:AU. (The RBA is quoting 0.9272 as todays exchange rate)

I do earn an above average wage for my town as does Hubby but $2000 definately isn''t pocket change. I wish it was LOL.

The figure you gave is more what I had expected Mark to say (I was expecting about A$1800). I know he does hand make rather than use molds, so maybe that explains it.

I guess I just need to figure out if the extra $600 is worth it to me

Or see if the chap next week has a different quote. Maybe I could haggle?

Thanks for your help
Mac

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 1/15/2010 9:36:43 PM
Author: Michael_E

Date: 1/15/2010 8:49:58 PM

Author: MAC-W


Regarding me as a client, I''ve been told I''m not bad - once the specs etc are sorted I just let people get on and do their job with no interference, I dont need to get renders or progress reports etc, but for getting the specs locked down I''m a bit of a nightmare

Even so it normally takes less than an hour of discussion before its all agreed and the deposit is paid.

You sound like you''d be exceptionally easy to work with, so they can''t be charging in anticipation of a lot of talking time. I think they ought to pay you for being so easy !

Given all the variables you''ve mentioned, can I ask you as a custom jewellery maker does the price quoted seem OK to you for this style of ring?

This is the way that I approach this sort of design. First the diamonds, what quality and how heavy ? In the US these melee and setting charges would cost the client from $1000 to $1500 per carat, ($350 seems a bit low for top quality diamonds and setting work in that setting). Setting charges are higher for smaller stones since there are usually a lot of them and they take up quite a bit of shop time. Next the metal work. This setting is two tone and so would require two molds, but the metalwork is in 10K so less expensive there. This would cost from about $650 to maybe $900 depending on whether it was cast or hand made from raw materials. It looks to me like you have about 1/2 carat of melee so if we go with the top prices mentioned this ring would cost about $1700...at least in my town.


I must say however that it all depends on who you are and where you''re buying. I did the CAD''s on this piece for a jeweler in a nearby tourist area and will be setting the diamonds for her next week. Her shop is very upscale and her client is very well to do. Her client is providing the center stone and I think that there''s probably 1 carat of other melee in this piece. When I asked what the total cost to the client would be, I was told that it would be over $4000. Now I have to admit that this jewelers overhead costs are quite high due to their location and the need for a staff, but I thought that they were joking with me when they said that. There are people to whom a few thousand dollars is pocket change...I just wish that I was working for them !

Don''t you think that it also depends on the cost of the central stone? If it is an $ 15,000-20,000 (or more) diamond, well, you want the most gorgeous setting and tend not to save on it. Now, if it is a spessartine, and it costs you $ 1200, you are less inclined to invest in a setting that costs more than the stone! I tend to buy larger stones for the same reason, you are still charged for the time, the model, etc. So in the long run, setting for a larger stone may cost (relatively) less than for a smaller one.

 

[MAC-W]

Date: 1/16/2010 1:50:10 AM
Author: crasru

Don't you think that it also depends on the cost of the central stone? If it is an $ 15,000-20,000 (or more) diamond, well, you want the most gorgeous setting and tend not to save on it. Now, if it is a spessartine, and it costs you $ 1200, you are less inclined to invest in a setting that costs more than the stone! I tend to buy larger stones for the same reason, you are still charged for the time, the model, etc. So in the long run, setting for a larger stone may cost (relatively) less than for a smaller one.

I have to say for me that's not the case.

I'm more than happy to invest say $2000 into setting a stone that cost say $500 IF (and its a big if) it makes the stone pop.
I think a good setting can make any stone, regardless of size, look more expensive, and at the end of the day if I like what I see on my finger then the price of setting the stone is worth it, even if the setting cost more than the stone. To be honest I have quite a few rings where the cost of the setting is more than the cost of the stones, but they all look really good and I get lots of compliments on them. I also have a few where the setting cost was less than the cost of the stones and I do get quite a few compliments on those as well, so who knows.

Its the overall look thats important to me, and if I only pay $300 to set a $300 stone (as an example) then to my mind it generally wont look as good as if I had spent more on the setting. There are exceptions of course.

This ring I'm working on now is a prime example of my attitude to setting price vs stone cost. The paprika spessartite cost hubby $765US from Richard Homer (thats about $850AU) and I'm looking at easily spending double and maybe triple that on the setting. To me its worth it cos I think it will make the stone look even more fabulous. Just my opinion, and I do know that I have a skewed view point regarding quality - blame it on my job

Having said that for my e-ring it was the opposite. The setting cost was ~1/8 of the cost of the stones. I could never spend anywhere near the cost of those stones on a setting, no matter how fabulous it was.

Mac

 

[ma re]

MAC-W, I''m with you when it comes to costs of settings, I think every stone that''s set should be set in something that''ll best bring out it''s beauty. So if it''s a cheap, fun stone bought on an impuls, I don''t mind seeing it set in a cheap pre-made setting, but if it''s a stone that you spend months searching for and spend a fair amount of money on, I say such a gem deserves a great setting. I know many people here just want their gems set in whatever (patience is not a common virtue around here

), so that they can enjoy wearing them, but to me that wouldn''t bring the joy of wearing. I''m very much into fine (some would say unnecessary) details, well balanced proportions and other aspects that are found mainly in custom work, so I''d rather have one very nicely done setting, than 10 inexpensive ones. But to all it''s own of course

 

[Michael_E]

Date: 1/15/2010 10:48:56 PM
Author: MAC-W

Maybe I could haggle?

Certainly you should haggle. If not that then "discuss" what you want and what you want to pay. I don't think that I've ever had a client who didn't want to talk about what they wanted, what they were getting and what costs were associated with the piece. Unless a jeweler feels that they have to have complete control on a project and you're just providing the money to make THEIR vision happen, they will welcome your asking questions. More than that they will welcome you involvement in arriving at the details of the piece. Some people forget that the person buying a piece is the one who'll be wearing it for a very long time as well as paying a lot of money for it. If you don't feel like being the wall that an artists canvas is hanging on, I'd suggest talking about whatever crosses your mind with regard to this piece, including any suggestions that your jeweler may have for ways to meet you budgetary requirements.

Let me go off an a small tangent here. There are two types of jewelers and gem cutters. There are "artists" and there are "craftspeople".

Artists tend to think of their art as the whole reason to be doing what they're doing, (with the client being somewhere farther down the chain). When the "art" is the focus, the client can get some great pieces and sometimes get unwearable "desk art". Since they give up any sense of involvement and control, the chances are often about 50/50 that they'll get what they want. Please keep in mind that I'm talking about a personality type and not anyone in particular. I do stone cutting and metalwork for a number of "artists" and they all seem to have the same sort of viewpoint and slightly to dramatically arrogant personality.

Craftspeople are different than artists in that they tend to be working at lower money levels and view their job as a job. One they enjoy, but it's still a job and it's what pays the bills. As a craftsperson the focus is on the client first, the quality of the work a close second and the artsy stuff either following closely behind, or something to be kicked out the door. The best of the craftspeople are good at everything it takes to make the client happy AND comfortable with their work and them, indefinitely. This means that they'll discuss any part of a project and make whatever reasonable changes come up, without a problem. The only downside to this person is that they often don't go to great pains to make a name for themselves, don't often have the chance to create grand artistic expressions and don't mingle with the upper crust and so their clients can't be dropping their name at social functions.

Obviously everyone is a bit of a mix of these two personalities, but if you want some input, are somewhat price conscious and are more concerned with having a nice piece of jewelry than people knowing where it came from, then I would suggest you find someone who is closer to the craftsperson type than the artist type. The easiest way to tell is if they will include you in all parts of the jewelry making process and not get their undies in a knot if you make suggestions...even if they're weird. The moral of the story is, "Go talk to them and see what they have to say".

Just to make a long story longer...there are a lot of ways to make something "like" what you want a LOT less expensively that the prices we're talking about. The easiest way is to use commercial parts. Both bands and bezels similar to this are widely available and at costs of about 1/2 of custom. All the craftsperson has to do is solder them together and set the stones. The stones can also be made less expensive by using SI1 diamonds which have a color in the HIJ range. Once they're set it would be hard to tell the difference between them and stones with higher color and clarity. Going this way would put a very similar for well under US$1000. Ask about your options and explain what you're looking for, all they can do is kick you out the door and ignore you at the country club !

 

[Michael_E]

Since everyone likes pictures, here''s a piece which I made by cutting up commercial parts and sticking them back together. This looks like something that was carved and cast. It was actually made from a band section and a round commercial bezel. Quick, smooth and very low priced. Use a different band, add some diamonds, dress up the bezel a bit differently and voila, you''re good to go !

 

[Indylady]

Pretty ring Michael! Is a band section a band with a space left out for the head of the ring, or just a simple band (like a wedding band)?

 

[Michael_E]

Date: 1/16/2010 3:43:00 PM
Author: IndyLady
Pretty ring Michael! Is a band section a band with a space left out for the head of the ring, or just a simple band (like a wedding band)?

It can be either Indylady. The idea is to use the part of a setting that appeals to you in order to make the style you want as rapidly and inexpensively as possible. The particular ring use a band that had no center section. If you wanted something taller and with more detail you could use a ladies signet ring or some other ring which has a built in head, remove it and replace it with something else. I love doing completely hand made things, but often people just don''t want or need that much effort and expense put into a piece....so that means it''s time to improvise. Basically there are four ways to get the ring you want in order of expense:
1. Buy the setting as a pre-made commercial setting.
2. Modify a commercial setting.
3. Make the setting using CAD modeling.
4. Make the setting completely by hand.

 

[packrat]

Date: 1/16/2010 11:06:38 PM
Author: Michael_E

Date: 1/16/2010 3:43:00 PM

Author: IndyLady

Pretty ring Michael! Is a band section a band with a space left out for the head of the ring, or just a simple band (like a wedding band)?

It can be either Indylady. The idea is to use the part of a setting that appeals to you in order to make the style you want as rapidly and inexpensively as possible. The particular ring use a band that had no center section. If you wanted something taller and with more detail you could use a ladies signet ring or some other ring which has a built in head, remove it and replace it with something else. I love doing completely hand made things, but often people just don''t want or need that much effort and expense put into a piece....so that means it''s time to improvise. Basically there are four ways to get the ring you want in order of expense:

1. Buy the setting as a pre-made commercial setting.

2. Modify a commercial setting.

3. Make the setting using CAD modeling.

4. Make the setting completely by hand.

Huh..interesting Michael! Your #2 improvising gives me an idea on a project I''ve been wanting to do but not to spend a lot of money on!

 

[MAC-W]

Michael,

Thanks so much for all the helpful tips. You really are a star!

Mac.

 

[Nacre]

Michael,

I think you have just opened up a whole lot of unfortunate stereotyping here.

I am guessing you are from Australia, the term "undies" giving me that impression.

Any good jeweller needs to be artistic. Any one calling themselves an artist needs to have a degree or likewise qualification in the visual arts. Suggesting that a craftsperson is a better jeweller is ridiculous.

Soldering together manufactured pieces to form a ring does not make someone a jeweller.

Paying a highly qualified visual artist who has the craftsmanship to design and make a ring which will last forever with a stone which has been chosen using by the same persons Gemmological skills is okay.

You wouldn''t pay a bookkeeper to sticky tape parts of a law book together to keep you out of jail would you?

 

[MAC-W]

Date: 1/18/2010 1:56:59 AM
Author: Nacre
Michael,

I think you have just opened up a whole lot of unfortunate stereotyping here.

I am guessing you are from Australia, the term 'undies' giving me that impression.

Any good jeweller needs to be artistic. Any one calling themselves an artist needs to have a degree or likewise qualification in the visual arts. Suggesting that a craftsperson is a better jeweller is ridiculous.

Soldering together manufactured pieces to form a ring does not make someone a jeweller.

Paying a highly qualified visual artist who has the craftsmanship to design and make a ring which will last forever with a stone which has been chosen using by the same persons Gemmological skills is okay.

You wouldn't pay a bookkeeper to sticky tape parts of a law book together to keep you out of jail would you?

Oh FFS.

Dont get your undies in a knot.

(and yes I'm from Australia! But after living in 14 countries across 3 continents I can guarantee you that its not only Aussies who use that phrase)

Michael is not saying that at all - he is merely showing how some custom jewellery manufacturers may be able to help customers like myself reduce prices in specific circumstances. Has he been EXTREMELY helpful in this thread and do I for one appreciate it? "Sh*t yeah" (and that is a uniquely australian phrase

)

If you look at his earlier post he specifically says "..... and the artsy stuff either following closely behind, or something to be kicked out the door."

So some custom jewellery manufacturers are 'artistes' pure and simple (nightmare for the client cos they dont listen, and its 50-50 whether they interpret YOUR vision correctly), some are artistic craftsmen (they listen and deliver), some are non-artistic craftsmen (but fabulous at what they do as long as you give them very strict guidelines and requirements) and some are straight and simple 'jewellery makers' (with a very limited repetoire and skill level)

I know who I'd want to make my ring and its definately not the "artiste". ( - or the "jewellery maker")

Fortunately from what I've seen here on PS most of the vendors here fall into the "artistic craftsmen" category (with a couple of exceptions).

And my chappie here in Perth also (fortunately) seems to fall into that category, but I still appreciate Michael's input about possible cost reduction options that I can discuss with Mark. As a non-artistic engineer its not something I would have considered and may not be suitable for THIS ring, but is a definate possibility for other cheaper stones that I've had lying about for quite some time.

ETA: why does an artist need a degree in visual arts? did Gogan? or Van Gogh? or Michaelangelo? or... or.... or.....
I dont think anyone would query their right to be called artists.

 

[Michael_E]

Date: 1/18/2010 1:56:59 AM
Author: Nacre
Michael,


I think you have just opened up a whole lot of unfortunate stereotyping here.

Yes, I am. The point of stereotyping is to point out and exaggerate, in this case personality types. I suppose that I could have been more direct and just said. "If you want something specific, then pick someone who will both listen an talk to you". Much more simple, but not nearly as much fun !

am guessing you are from Australia, the term ''undies'' giving me that impression.

Nope, born and raised in the Pacific Northwest, USA. I have worked closely with a number of Aussies over the years, (doing engineering at a local aluminum smelter). Maybe I picked up some of their slang. Too bad I can''t talk with their accent...very attractive !

Any good jeweller needs to be artistic.

I agree with this and all of the good jewelers that I know are quite artistic.

Any one calling themselves an artist needs to have a degree or likewise qualification in the visual arts. Suggesting that a craftsperson is a better jeweller is ridiculous.

A degree ? How many jewelers that you know have a degree in making jewelry. I know exactly one. Many jewelers have degrees, just not in art or jewelry making. The best that I''ve ever met were have no degree and were taught by master craftsman who likewise had no degree. A good craftsperson IS a better jeweler. This is the case because as a craftsperson they are more focused on making a piece which is strong, durable and comfortable, with creative features and pure art taking a second seat to those requirements. A good jeweler does need to be both an artist and a good craftsperson, but there are those who fall farther one way or the other. A good artist who is not a good craftsperson had better find some craftspeople to work for them. Like wise a good craftsperson who lacks artistic sense will be better off finding an artist to team up with.

together manufactured pieces to form a ring does not make someone a jeweller.

Really ? Does it matter if the parts that are used are pre-made to a specific shape or just rolled bars and sheet ? Well, yes it does matter, but only if the client is willing to pay for the added time and usually more material due to heavier construction. When I mention using pre-made parts, I am not saying that they have to stay in the same shape that they arrived in. sometimes it''s just easier to carve up a stock setting to get to a custom shape than it is to carve a wax or assemble the part from multiple, hand made pieces. There''s a place for everything and making
parts from stock pieces can be very cost effective at a certain price point.

Paying a highly qualified visual artist who has the craftsmanship to design and make a ring which will last forever with a stone which has been chosen using by the same persons Gemmological skills is okay.

Of course it is ! On the other hand there are times when a person doesn''t want, need, nor can afford such a luxury. Then the idea becomes getting them something which approaches THEIR vision, with adequate to high quality and at a price they can afford.

wouldn''t pay a bookkeeper to sticky tape parts of a law book together to keep you out of jail would you?

If it actually kept me out of jail I certainly would. The idea is functionality and price. If the sticky tape guy is functional and has sufficient quality, then I''d by them an extra roll of duct tape and let them have at it ! Don''t you just love duct tape ?

 

[Arkteia]

Actually, it is turning into an interesting topic. Thank you, Michael E and Mac-W!

Personally, I do not care if I am working with an "artist" or a "craftsman" as long as I like what I get. Most of the jewellers are probably craftsmen and use pre-made settings, but so much depends on their taste! I can only judge how it looks. The only issue is, artists usually have websites and/or their work is reproduced in books, so you can easily find their names and websites. Also, they probably charge an overhead for the name, although it differs from one person to another.

I liked the ring you showed, Michael, and I think I have your full name. So I''ll keep you in mind. Since you were raised in Pacific NW, where I am now living, and people here are so heavily into "recycling", I guess this is the principle you use in your work (LOL). Nothing bad in recycling or using pre-made pieces as long as they look nice!

 

[Michael_E]

Date: 1/18/2010 2:19:53 PM
Author: crasru
Since you were raised in Pacific NW, where I am now living, and people here are so heavily into 'recycling', I guess this is the principle you use in your work (LOL). Nothing bad in recycling or using pre-made pieces as long as they look nice!

Oh, yes, they can look great and be very low cost as well. I kept this one in my "design files" so that I could make something similar in the future. Of course I would NOT violate anyone's copyright of anything, but this has design elements which I find intriguing.

 

[Nacre]

MAC,

I totally understand that some people prefer to opt for a cheaper manufactured option for their jewellery.

I always offer that option for my clients as sometimes what a client sees in their mind is vastly different from the actual cost of the metal and gemstones to make it for a custom piece.

The ring you asked about looks to me like 18ct gold, no rhodium plating, with maybe 7pt down to 3pt E/F colour diamonds. I have never heard of 10K, so I''ll look it up! I don''t know how it differs from 9ct wg.

There is a lot of gold in that ring, and for a custom made design by a well known jeweller, I don''t think a price of over $2,000 is unreasonable, even if they are using a stone you already have. Going from 18ct down to 9ct and going for a lesser colour/clarity of diamonds will bring the price down, but 9ct is less grey than 18ct and HIJ colour diamonds are more yellow that F/G colour. It just depends on what you are happy with compromising on the original design!

I don''t agree that artistic jewellers are dramatic and put their art before their clients needs. I don''t think it is necessary to put a group of jewellers down in order to set up self serving sales situations on this forum if that was the purpose of that comment?

There are a lot of very informed gemstone and jewellery loving consumers on this forum who know exactly what they want and are very capable of instructing a craftsperson or buying a great setting or gemstone on line.

Most people who buy jewellery are not as informed and feel more comfortable sitting with a jeweller seeing, trying on and comparing different options. I am working on putting together some earrings today. They are huge baroque freshies and the clients want a very simple but substantial finding, cheaper than what I can hand make it for and they are happy to pay less for manufactures ones! They don''t care about the artistic design! I am still going to look at a huge range of findings to find the best ones, both in quality and structure for the cheapest $$ and I will spend even more time finding the best face up for the pearl and then fitting them to each clients ear shape and ear hole direction so that they sit just right. The total cost of the earrings? $100.

If they are not happy, I will re-do them because THE CLIENT IS ALWAYS RIGHT! And you can''t put a price on client happiness and loyalty.

As a side note, I like to employ fine arts graduates. I can train someone to thread pearls, but if it''s not absolutely perfect, they have to do it again, and again, and again. I can''t teach that absolute dedication to perfection and an eye for beauty so I like to employ professionals who already possess those skills. The cost for that threading to the client? $30. Priceless. Oh, and the only dramatic attitudes I have from them is if there is no chocolate brownies left come 3pm coffee time...! The drams!

 

[Michael_E]

Date: 1/18/2010 7:56:41 PM
Author: Nacre

I don''t agree that artistic jewellers are dramatic and put their art before their clients needs. I don''t think it is necessary to put a group of jewellers down in order to set up self serving sales situations on this forum if that was the purpose of that comment?

I don''t think that I was putting anyone down Nacre, merely describing a certain type of personality which one may run into. As for self serving sales situation, hardly. You must mean the pictures ? Where am I supposed to get pictures to illustrate a point ? I''m sure that people would much prefer to look at something than to listen to my dry yakking.

If they are not happy, I will re-do them because THE CLIENT IS ALWAYS RIGHT!

Always ? Hmmm, I''ve never met anyone who was always right. Most of my clients have required some education in order to make sure that they are "right" when they finally make a decision. Things like bands and prongs that are too narrow to be durable come to mind. I can''t recall ever having to make a piece over because someone was not happy. Wait ! That did happen once....maybe. Too long ago to remember I''m afraid.

I can''t teach that absolute dedication to perfection and an eye for beauty so I like to employ professionals who already possess those skills.

Wow, absolute dedication to perfection is a very impressive trait, you must be an artist ! I''ve worked in machine shops doing extremely precise work in exotic metals, on computer controlled machines, to tolerances of .0001" and I don''t think that I''ve ever seen "absolute perfection". (This would be your cue to post a picture of "absolute perfection", Nacre. Related, of course, to this thread so as not to be accused of placing yourself in a "self serving sales situation".

This does bring up a good point though. Should those of us who make things be posting pictures which relate to the threads we''re involved in ? Is this always considered self promotion ? Sorry if I''ve offended anyone !

 

[MAC-W]

Nacre,
I'm glad to hear you are not L'Artiste (said with French accent) and will listen to your clients and work with them to find solutions.

It was the implied snobbery in this statement

Date: 1/18/2010 1:56:59 AM
Author: Nacre
MAC

Any one calling themselves an artist needs to have a degree or likewise qualification in the visual arts. Suggesting that a craftsperson is a better jeweller is ridiculous.

that made me list the types of designers/manufacturers I have come across and trust me some artistic jewellers are TOTAL drama queens. Nothing to do with setting up self serving sales situations, as I am half a world away from the majority of vendors on this site, and will likely never have the opportunity to work with any of them.

 

[Nacre]

Michael,

I am so glad you are having so much fun picking apart my posts!

I get that you don''t like working with your artistic clients and that you maybe want more recognition for your work than the ''drama queens''.

I get that you think craftspeople "don''t have the chance to create grand artistic expressions and don''t mingle with the upper crust and so their clients can''t be dropping their name at social functions". It''s kind of a disturbing social comment that artists mingle with the upper crust and craftspeople don''t. It all sounds a bit Caddyshack to me and I don''t agree with you there, but that''s your point of view!

You are entitled to your opinion about who you don''t like. But, when you put someone else''s way of working down, it doesn''t make me think that you are better as a craftsperson than than as an artistic jeweller, it just makes me think that you aren''t a happy person.

I also get that you will attack anyone who tries to disagree with you.

Unhappy people who attack the weaker points of others = a bully.

Most jewellers I know in Melbourne under the age of 35 do, in fact, have a fine arts degree. On top of that, they are FGAA and some are Dip DT. Most over that age are apprenticeship because of the development of higher education courses. We are very lucky here to have access to great universities and a great GAA. We are very lucky to have those kinds of jewellers in Melbourne!

I like employing people with qualifications and gaining them for myself. I like trying to create perfection in my work and respecting my clients wishes. Striving for perfection is a great motivation in life, even though it may never be achieved! If that makes me a snob, I''m a snob.

I could put a pic in here of a (IMHO) perfectly knotted strand of pearls I was talking about...but hey, it''s just a knot and not a very interesting pic. There are loads of images of perfect knots on this forum.

This is getting boring though..I thought this forum was about education, but obviously not.