Help determining ideal-scope/H&A

[carlsbad]

I am looking at a stone online that scores high on the Holloway Cut advisor and the GIA cut estimator. All of the info I can get on the stone is listed below. Is there any way to dertimine if this would look good with the ideal-scope or exhibit hearts and arrows just from the info I have here? Thanks for the help!

6.52x6.56x3.97
1.02 ct.
depth - 60.8%
table - 56.7%
crown angle - 34.5
pavilion angle - 41.0
pavilion depth - 43.2%
culet - 0.7%
girdle - thin to medium, faceted
polish - excellent
symmetry - excellent
clarity - VS1
color - F
flourescence - None
sarin proprotion grade - 0
(specs from GIA and Sarin)

 

[belle]

hey carlsbad

welcome to ps!

h&a is a facet pattern, meaning the facets are aligned in such a way that they create the look of ''hearts'' when viewed from the pavilion side and ''arrows'' when viewed through the crown. the angles and proportions that you have provided will give an idea of overall cut quality but not anything about facet arrangement. if you want to see if the stone displays hearts and arrows, you will have to look at it through a h&a viewer.

 

[carlsbad]

Thanks for the welcome and reponse Belle!
I guess I am just wondering that since I have no way to see the diamond through an H&A viewer or an Ideal-scope before I have it in front of me, can I reasonably estimate that it will reflect those characteristics before hand. In other words, since the stone has a high score in the Holloway cut advisor, will it look mostly red through the ideal-scope? And since the proportions and symmetry show up well from the GIA and Sarin can I assume that it will exhibit close to hearts and arrows? Do the facet angles from the Sarin report help to determine this (it has an image at the bottom with the angles of each bezel facet)?
The problem is that I''m looking at vendors like Blue Nile and Union Diamonds, but they do not show anything other than the main certifications from GIA or AGS. Some other vendors (WF, GOG) give you pictures of the idealscope and the H&A.
I also plan to buy the diamond with the setting from the same vendor so I''d like to have an idea of those things before it is set.
Thanks again!

 

[belle]

you're welcome

Date: 11/30/2005 5:11:15 PM
Author: carlsbad
I guess I am just wondering that since I have no way to see the diamond through an H&A viewer or an Ideal-scope before I have it in front of me, can I reasonably estimate that it will reflect those characteristics before hand. In other words, since the stone has a high score in the Holloway cut advisor, will it look mostly red through the ideal-scope?

first of all, mostly red idealscope images have nothing to do with hearts and arrows patterning. you can have a great looking (no leaky) idealscope image and still not have h&a. hca does not account for minor facets, so a good score does not guarantee h&a either.

Date: 11/30/2005 5:11:15 PM
Author: carlsbad
And since the proportions and symmetry show up well from the GIA and Sarin can I assume that it will exhibit close to hearts and arrows? Do the facet angles from the Sarin report help to determine this (it has an image at the bottom with the angles of each bezel facet)?

proportions and symmetry graded by labs has nothing to do with optical symmetry like h&a
here is a link to the definitions of symmetry

Date: 11/30/2005 5:11:15 PM
Author: carlsbad
The problem is that I'm looking at vendors like Blue Nile and Union Diamonds, but they do not show anything other than the main certifications from GIA or AGS. Some other vendors (WF, GOG) give you pictures of the idealscope and the H&A.
I also plan to buy the diamond with the setting from the same vendor so I'd like to have an idea of those things before it is set.
Thanks again!

if you want to be sure you are getting true h&a, you will have to get a pic of the hearts and arrows

regarding your first question about idealscope images, below i have attached two images. both are great without any leakage. the first is a non-h&a and the second is h&a. this shows that you can have a red, red is image without having h&a.

 

[carlsbad]

Wow, thanks for all the great info Belle. I don''t necessarily have to have a true H&A, I just want to make sure that I am buying a good quality diamond for the money without having access to images like those. That''s why I''ve run the numbers through the gem cut programs to get the most information possible. In your opinion, does this look like a good diamond? Is it recommended that I get images like the idealscope or H&A before I buy?
On one of the pages you linked to it mentioned that a true hearts and arrows diamond will be priced at a premium. Is it generally understood that H&A is a better performing diamond and worth the premium price, or is it just having the knowledge that your diamond is as close to being perfectly cut as possible.
Sorry for the rambling! This is my first diamond purchase ever and I just want to learn as mush as possible to make an informed decision. This forum is a great resource!
Thanks.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Carlsbad the H&A''s premium is more intangible and about ''knowing'' than about ''seeing''.

I think all those vendors will happily examine and or send you photo''s of the stone with an ideal-scope - but only H&A''s if the stone has a good H&A''s pattern.

I have never found a person who can tell the difference between a stone with a good Ideal-scope and one with a good H&A''s pattern.

Others may have a quasi religious belief in H&A''s and might argue semantics, but if that is your bent - then pay the money

 

[carlsbad]

Ha ,that's funny you should reply. I was just looking at your site on this page, which answers alot.
Thanks for the advise. I don't necessarily need H&A or want to pay for it if I am still getting an awesome looking diamond. I doubt that my girlfriend (hopefully future wife) will care or even know about H&A but I do want to make sure it's a bright and brilliant diamond. By the way, do most appraisers use ideal-scopes, H&A viewers, etc ?