Gem Hunting

[minousbijoux]

TL - thank you for the clarification of the padparadscha thread.

I too am one who generally likes Ed's threads. I often find them informative. Sometimes, they do seem a little packaged, but I have just overlooked it. I do get concerned with vendors when the exact same post appears elsewhere, like in their blog, or posted on other websites; if they are writing it in their blog/website/having it published, then it does smack of self-promotion to me when it shows up here. There was one occasion when a vendor showed up for the sole purpose of seasonal greetings and another vendor quickly jumped in to the thread with a "me too!" response. I found both of those awkward as they could've sent an email out to those on their lists rather than post on PS. The one who really sets my teeth on edge is one who quotes from their blog/articles. If we wanted to read it, we could go to the article, blog or website; posting on here to let us know of it is by definition self-promotion.

As for this situation, I think its a case of one end of the spectrum, the very knowledgeable gem bargain hunter, not having a need for the services of a vendor whose niche is to serve those willing to pay a premium in the gem price for the services. I also have seen concerns expressed in the past by TL about the photography used, and whether it exaggerates the beauty of the gems (in a way, another form of self promotion). I can understand why there are doubts. But on the flip side, TL you have to appreciate that you are one end of the spectrum and the vast majority here are no where near as educated/experienced as you are. Many also have deep pockets and don't have a problem paying someone to undertake their search. That is where Ed comes in.

 

[T L]

TL - thank you for the clarification of the padparadscha thread.

I too am one who generally likes Ed's threads. I often find them informative. Sometimes, they do seem a little packaged, but I have just overlooked it. I do get concerned with vendors when the exact same post appears elsewhere, like in their blog, or posted on other websites; if they are writing it in their blog/website/having it published, then it does smack of self-promotion to me when it shows up here. There was one occasion when a vendor showed up for the sole purpose of seasonal greetings and another vendor quickly jumped in to the thread with a "me too!" response. I found both of those awkward as they could've sent an email out to those on their lists rather than post on PS. The one who really sets my teeth on edge is one who quotes from their blog/articles. If we wanted to read it, we could go to the article, blog or website; posting on here to let us know of it is by definition self-promotion.

As for this situation, I think its a case of one end of the spectrum, the very knowledgeable gem bargain hunter, not having a need for the services of a vendor whose niche is to serve those willing to pay a premium in the gem price for the services. I also have seen concerns expressed in the past by TL about the photography used, and whether it exaggerates the beauty of the gems (in a way, another form of self promotion). I can understand why there are doubts. But on the flip side, TL you have to appreciate that you are one end of the spectrum and the vast majority here are no where near as educated/experienced as you are. Many also have deep pockets and don't have a problem paying someone to undertake their search. That is where Ed comes in.

Thank you Minous,
I can appreciate that people enjoy Ed's threads. If people do a search on his topics, they can see/read all of them and decide for themselves. They will also realize that I don't in fact reply much on his threads, (but I do read them) or if I do, it's very nonchalant. My opinion comes from observations over the course of several years on this forum. I do realize they are not everyone's opinions, however I do think the last thread on the padparadcha was really blatant advertising and self promotion, and while this particular thread might have been less blatant, I did see it as such. This is my opinion, and I think I have the right to express my feelings on the matter. I have nothing against Ed, and while I do admit I think his prices are high, that is not the secret as to why he feels I'm attacking him. I have recommended other high priced dealers here as well. It is simply the nature of his threads that bother me.

He posts his same exact threads on other sites as well.

 

[Arkteia]

I almost never post here now, and feel bad because I sometimes see your wonderful rings, dear PS-ers, and should comment on them.
But as a "busy doctor" I wanted to share my opinion about gem hunting.
Everyone has own strategy. I feel bad because I should have followed wise advise of Harriet, which she gave me a long time ago, and I neglected it. Bottom line is, before you "hunt" for a stone, you have to see at least about 50, maybe a 100 similar stones, to know what is there .
I started buying at shows. Sometimes you have a spinel in mind and return home with a demantoid, but this yield the best "catch". The shows are scheduled on weekends, so if one likes to travel, like I do, it is the greatest way to see your own country.
The limitations of working with vendors is a certain degree of commitment. I think it is better to call several people, to maximize your choice, but if someone spends time trying to search for your favorite stone, how many times can you send them back?
Speaking about prices, I think that precision cutters have the right to charge higher prices, because many of them invest into traveling, choose their own material, and invest time and effort into potentially harmful process of cutting. Some of them are more affordable, some are less, but usually prices are decent and I would never get upset at seeing an expensive stone because I understand what I am paying for. I do not know much about eco-friendly mining, I'd love to read your article on it, you have wonderful prose style, but in my vies, it should be sort of charity and I still do not understand higher prices, but maybe I am wrong. I did not see Lisa Elser's prices going up when she started her charitable work among the locals, and many of our precision cutters auction their stones to help victims of disasters, but I do not see their prices rise after it.
A little bit off, topic, "hunting" is a good word, but I think there is also "fishing" for gems, like on BB's Wednesdays. The first to come catches the biggest fish, and I am usually the last one but many people "catch" great stones.
And then, there is a couple of tiny websites like SelectGem, which are like antique stores. You never know what your find there, but the prices are great and the service is wonderful, and there is free certificate coming with them, and I always visit such websites if I hunt for specific gems.

 

[deorwine]

But you are so strangely emotional.

Ed, as I have stated before I enjoy your posts and I find them informative, and (although I'd be shocked if you remembered) I interacted with Wildfish many years ago in which you were a complete gentleman, and I tell people about that experience when it comes up.

However, I have to say that this kind of comment (and things like "I think this is your real problem") does nothing for you and makes me think less of you, and I hope you refrain from it in the future. Though I understand you may feel hurt by TL's comments, you are a) escalating this by insulting TL (who was not, in fact, emotional, in my opinion), b) it has not escaped me that you are attacking TL rather than attacking her arguments, and c) regardless of the merit of TL's arguments, as a vendor if people do say negative things about you, unless they are factually untrue (e.g., if TL actually did misinterpret your statement it's obviously right for you to correct that), it makes you look bad to do anything but grin and bear it. Seriously, even though I have had a good experience with you in the past, this thread is leaving a bad taste in my mouth, and not because of either your original post or TL's comments, but because of your response.

TL, again, I appreciate your honesty, your willingness to step in and say it the way you mean it (even if others don't agree and even if you get flak for it -- takes courage on your part, and I admire that), and your willingness to listen to others' interpretations I learn a lot from your posts, and you are one of the people on this board whose posts I always look for and am interested in for those reasons.

 

[GemFever]

But you are so strangely emotional.

Ed, as I have stated before I enjoy your posts and I find them informative, and (although I'd be shocked if you remembered) I interacted with Wildfish many years ago in which you were a complete gentleman, and I tell people about that experience when it comes up.

However, I have to say that this kind of comment (and things like "I think this is your real problem") does nothing for you and makes me think less of you, and I hope you refrain from it in the future. Though I understand you may feel hurt by TL's comments, you are a) escalating this by insulting TL (who was not, in fact, emotional, in my opinion), b) it has not escaped me that you are attacking TL rather than attacking her arguments, and c) regardless of the merit of TL's arguments, as a vendor if people do say negative things about you, unless they are factually untrue (e.g., if TL actually did misinterpret your statement it's obviously right for you to correct that), it makes you look bad to do anything but grin and bear it. Seriously, even though I have had a good experience with you in the past, this thread is leaving a bad taste in my mouth, and not because of either your original post or TL's comments, but because of your response.

TL, again, I appreciate your honesty, your willingness to step in and say it the way you mean it (even if others don't agree and even if you get flak for it -- takes courage on your part, and I admire that), and your willingness to listen to others' interpretations I learn a lot from your posts, and you are one of the people on this board whose posts I always look for and am interested in for those reasons.

+1 (on all points, very well said!)

 

[Lula]

thank you for the informative post, ed! it certainly highlights how buyers can end up increasing the price they pay for a particular stone.

TL, you certainly are entitled to your opinion. in my reading of ed's postings i find education. if there is one thing pricescope has always advocated is more education for buyers. when vendors do offer that educational opportunity and then greeted with great rudeness, well, is it no wonder that many vendors no longer participate here or have reduced their participation?

i agree that ed's stones are high priced. but he's also running an "ethical" business and for those that care about that, well, they are willing to pay for that premium. and those not wanting to spend as many years and as much time as you learning about stones will also pay that premium. get over it.

eta: also in the coveted but not bought from ed category.

I agree with Vapid and MZ. I'm also in the coveted but not bought category. I have e-mailed Ed several times with questions, and found him to be honest and friendly. I have a very limited gemstone budget, but I do pay more for precision cutting. I like the beauty of the faceting, believe it's worth a premium, and happily pay extra to support artisan cutters and ethical practices.

ETA: I'm still learning. Gemstone buying seems to involve quite a bit of trial and error. And I very much appreciate the participation of vendors on this forum, because I have learned a lot from reading their posts. I think we hold vendors to high standards on PS, and I admire the vendors that are brave enough to post here.

 

[Pandora II]

Hmmm,

I really enjoyed reading Ed's post - as I enjoy most of his threads.

I also think that I am wise enough in the ways of the world to make up my own mind about whether a vendor is promoting themselves here or not.

We complain that no-one comes and talks about Tucson... but how could they do so without promoting themselves in some way. Even if it's just hinting at what rough they may have looked at? When you see how fast people jump on the 'drops' that some cutters do, I think just the mention of some 'lovely minty tourmaline' or whatever would send plenty of people scurrying to their email accounts to book a piece.

Other people, who shall remain nameless, promote their books at every available opportunity. Frankly, I don't care - I own both books and recommend them to people frequently, I'm far more interested in hearing about their travels, or whatever new thing they plan to bring to our attention.

Anyway, thank you Ed, that was a fun piece and should be handed out to a lot of people who enter the coloured stone world thinking they can just order off the shelves like you can with diamonds!

 

[gongli]

Yes I like Ed's posts and I also hope he continues. I agree they are promotional, but every time someone posts with a *trade* sign I think it's promotional - you're getting to know a vendor's ideas and tastes better, and they're getting their name out (in a very well targeted forum) along with a big, special sign next to it that they have something to sell.. I think posting information is actually far more effective in a certain way than paid ads, which everyone knows are ads, and typically don't click on. Paid ads don't really engage you the way an informative post does.

 

[PrecisionGem]

I think certainly anyone in the trade who posts here, post's are somewhat promotional. But I will say that most everyone involved with gemstones is also a gem junkie, and love talking about them. As a vendor we have to bite our tongues a lot so as to try to not come off as promotional, but we still have fun here as does everyone else.

I will admit EVERY time I talk about puppy mills here, I am promoting to Adopt and not shop at pet stores. Every puppy in that pet store, has a mother sitting a cold wet cage someplace, where she has spent her entire life, and will stay until she is of no use producing puppies.

 

[Edward Bristol]

Yes, OK, after a night sleep I regret getting angry at TL, sorry TL.

I did feel harassed and after along day I was just tired of having to justify my, really innocent (as far as possible when running a business and making a living), input here. It just seemed so rude for my work and effort and I was honestly thinking not to do it again.

Luckily I locked-off, went to bed, and avoided further aggravation.

Last word to it, yes, if one writes a longer piece about Burma or a specific stone you must allow it to be posted elsewhere, on my Blog and website. As people running businesses we can’t write content exclusively for PS. I hope that is understandable.

 

[mastercutgems]

Ed, Gene, and all the other vendors, cutters, etc.

I will agree this is a forum in which we all love to post "most of the time" and we do feel like we have been in this field for so many years we too can bring some intelligent information to the table to help others. We will always be looked at promoting ourselves as we all have the big flag VENDOR in the right hand corner. Some of us may seem to be more obvious than others; but Gene, and so many others are correct. We are in this business and the line we have to walk is mighty thin; and any of us and most all of us have had a "run-in" with a PS member if we deal with enough of them. It does not make us villains or them; we are all humans first and we will not always see " eye-to-eye" but I commend Edward for making an apology just as i have in the past as well; we may not feel we should or have to but it does make us better people for humbling ourselves to maybe misspeaking or getting emotional that we are being accused of something in our minds we had no clue we were doing...

Me as a vendor will do as most on here will continue to do; post within our fine line; and try to be as honest and forthright with all we deal with...

I hope Ella does not feel this is promoting myself also as it is not...

I do have fun on this forum and I know many do not understand my Southern sense of humor; but I do enjoy some of the posts.

TL you are a Lady who speaks her mind; I do not agree or disagree with all you say; but have found you to be honest and also you are a bargain shopper and I cannot fault you there My Dear as I am also and have been for 20+ years...

Edward ; your stories are quite entertaining and although I have never bought from you; I think you have some nice stones. We will all have to agree to disagree; but do it with respect to each other as best you can which I feel you do...

This post is not intended to promote my business; or to harm or insult any party on or off the forum...

May FATHER BLESS All those poor people struck by the horrible tornadoes here in the states this past few days...

Most respectfully;

Dana

 

[T L]

Ed,
Thanks, and keep posting. I'm not out to get you, really I'm not. A lot of people enjoy your posts and put a new perspective on them for me.

To all vendors, I really love you all, and I am grateful that you continue to post, entertain and educate many members.

To everyone, I apologize if I was inflammatory in any way.

Group hug, cake?

 

[mastercutgems]

A BIG BRAVO to TL and Edward for being kind and stand-up people... Proud to be in your company

Most resepctfully

Dana

 

[justginger]

I try to avoid confrontation, but I can't resist cake!

 

[ooo~Shiney!]

I wasn't going to touch this thread with a 10 foot pole,
but then I saw that CAKE !!!!!

Yes, I will have a slice !!!

 

[Lula]

A BIG BRAVO to TL and Edward for being kind and stand-up people... Proud to be in your company

Most resepctfully

Dana

Agree!

 

[VapidLapid]

You know I like cake!
I see a lot of brown in that cake.

 

[LD]

What kind of people start hunts?
Usually they are well informed buyers searching a gem for a special occasion but not long-term collectors or investors. The latter acquire what they like and when they can find it, but they are not fixated on a certain quality and timeline.

Your post struck a chord with me Ed when I read it because I realised that actually I'm not the sort of person who asks others to hunt for me so I definitely fall into your other category! It was interesting because I'd not thought of it like this before but I like the hunt myself - I don't want others to do it for me as it's part of the fun! It also means I sometimes find other gems along the way that I hadn't actually been looking for. So maybe I should change my name to Hunter!

I also love cake and thankfully I don't see any grey in that one! Pass me a slice please!

 

[PrecisionGem]

TL, the cut in the cake looks a little wonky and one side of the cake is a little different color than the other. Oh, and I see orange in the nuts. Depending on what you paid for the cake, it may be a good buy. But then everyone's monitor is different.

 

[NKOTB]

TL, the cut in the cake looks a little wonky and one side of the cake is a little different color than the other. Oh, and I see orange in the nuts. Depending on what you paid for the cake, it may be a good buy. But then everyone's monitor is different.

LOL!!!!

Glad my birthday's in a few days, because now I WANT CAKE!

 

[T L]

You know I like cake!
I see a lot of brown in that cake.

Well, there's one kind of brown I like, CHOCOLATE!!

 

[minousbijoux]

You know I like cake!
I see a lot of brown in that cake.

Well, there's one kind of brown I like, CHOCOLATE!!

...and that is a very good thing!

TL, thank you.

 

[ooo~Shiney!]

TL, the cut in the cake looks a little wonky and one side of the cake is a little different color than the other. Oh, and I see orange in the nuts. Depending on what you paid for the cake, it may be a good buy. But then everyone's monitor is different.

OMG !!!!!
That's the best thing I've seen on here today !!!

Thankfully, there doesn't seem to be a window though

Aaaaaa,,,,, I take that back !!!
on further inspection, There IS a window !!!!!

 

[LD]

STEP AWAY FROM THE CAKE.

Minous and I have claimed it as our own.

Thank you

 

[deorwine]

Ed, I also want to apologize for coming down on you so hard (which I also realized after a good night's sleep, funny how that puts everything in perspective...) -- you really are a true gentleman.

and oohh, cake!! (Gene, that was hilarious! Have you played Portal by any chance? The Cake is a Lie!)

 

[Lee Little]

I enjoyed reading Ed's post and was wondering lately why I hardly ever post here anymore. TL answered that question beautifully on the first page and I could not keep reading and was going to just close the tab but had to vent a bit.
There are many forums that I post on and yes, it is self promotion as well just fun to do. Time is very valuable so it is especially important to be selective where we post. The treatment Ed got here will keep many in the trade from posting.
I didn't realize that trades were paying to be accepted vendors on this forum, thanks TL for opening my eyes. The cake was a nice gesture. Best regards, Lee

 

[T L]

I enjoyed reading Ed's post and was wondering lately why I hardly ever post here anymore. TL answered that question beautifully on the first page and I could not keep reading and was going to just close the tab but had to vent a bit.
There are many forums that I post on and yes, it is self promotion as well just fun to do. Time is very valuable so it is especially important to be selective where we post. The treatment Ed got here will keep many in the trade from posting.
I didn't realize that trades were paying to be accepted vendors on this forum, thanks TL for opening my eyes. The cake was a nice gesture. Best regards, Lee

Lee, I apologized to Ed and everyone on the forum. Your bolded sentence is certainly not true. I and others promote vendors that do not buy advertising on this site. Every once in a while, I do get agitated, as I post here a lot, but the others here put a new perspective on Ed's posts for me, which was very helpful. Sometimes it's important to see a new perspective, and I have no more problem with Ed, and I appreciate the information that he, and other vendors, provide people on this forum.

I apologize to you as well, as you were probably offended by my comments to Ed. You were not the only one. It would certainly be sad and a loss to PS if we lost respected vendors such as yourself just because I had to "rant." I am not the only person on this board, and many others do not share my opinion on things, so don't let my comments put you off from posting here.

 

[Lee Little]

I totally respect that people have bought from Wildfish and are happy with their purchases. I stick by my opinion that I think he's been blatantly trying to promote himself on this site. No one has to agree with my opinion, but like the last padparadcha thread that was pulled (for more self promotion), it is really getting on my nerves. I think if he wants to advertise on here, he should pay for it like the rest of the vendors that have to. I'm sorry if people don't agree with me, and they don't have to. It's my opinion and I'm sticking by it. Ed can think I'm being nasty all he wants to. I've been on this forum for years, and after a long time, I'm just getting tired of it.

Hi TL,
In that case, I apologize for having misinterpreted the bolded sentence from your post. Perhaps you could explain it a little further as I am still not clear what it means. Not trying to pick with you but just want to understand more about vendors and this forum. Best regards, Lee

 

[T L]

I totally respect that people have bought from Wildfish and are happy with their purchases. I stick by my opinion that I think he's been blatantly trying to promote himself on this site. No one has to agree with my opinion, but like the last padparadcha thread that was pulled (for more self promotion), it is really getting on my nerves. I think if he wants to advertise on here, he should pay for it like the rest of the vendors that have to. I'm sorry if people don't agree with me, and they don't have to. It's my opinion and I'm sticking by it. Ed can think I'm being nasty all he wants to. I've been on this forum for years, and after a long time, I'm just getting tired of it.

Hi TL,
In that case, I apologize for having misinterpreted the bolded sentence from your post. Perhaps you could explain it a little further as I am still not clear what it means. Not trying to pick with you but just want to understand more about vendors and this forum. Best regards, Lee

I think I explained it in the prior posts in this thread. I don't think it's helpful to Ed and it's not helpful to rehash what I meant by those comments, because it just would add insult to the injury I have already done. I apologized as I was wrong, and I hope that suffices.

 

[minousbijoux]

Come on, vendors, lighten up!

TL's comments would really frighten vendors away?!! Really. Really?!! This is not TLScope, this is PriceScope and TL is but one member of many - granted a well known and highly valued member, but one member still. If this frightens you away, so be it. But then my response is that it didn't take much for you to leave.

People vary. People are human. People have bad days. Its water under the bridge. Both individuals with distance and rest, owned their part, apologized and moved on.

Please let's not rehash this.