Forcibly moving a loved one into a senior living facility

[adlgel]

Me? I'd rather rot away at home over time and die alone on my floor then end up in a "memory care facility." I hope I'm given that right to do so when the time comes.

While I understand your wishes here this is easier said than done on a practical level. Do you expect your family to watch this happen and do nothing? See you receive a grocery order and then not have the strength to put them away so all the refrigerated stuff has to be thrown away? See you have a clogged toilet and feces on the carpet and couch and do nothing about it?

 

[seaurchin]

To be clear, she was declared incompetent by the courts and I was appointed as her legal guardian. Therefore I have legal authority to make medical decisions on her behalf as well as decide where she lives. The issue is how to actually physically move her from point A to point B when she won’t go willingly.

I was able to get her to her regular doctor appt today and he agreed she needed to be in the hospital. He called 911 from his office and fortunately this time she went without too much of a fight, although I had my guardianship papers at the ready to force the issue if needed. Hopefully we can get her in a better state physically while we plan for what to do next. Thanks for all of your comments and thoughts.

So glad you were given better assistance this time and that she went along with the EMTs.

 

[pearlsngems]

To be clear, she was declared incompetent by the courts and I was appointed as her legal guardian. Therefore I have legal authority to make medical decisions on her behalf as well as decide where she lives. The issue is how to actually physically move her from point A to point B when she won’t go willingly.

I was able to get her to her regular doctor appt today and he agreed she needed to be in the hospital. He called 911 from his office and fortunately this time she went without too much of a fight, although I had my guardianship papers at the ready to force the issue if needed. Hopefully we can get her in a better state physically while we plan for what to do next. Thanks for all of your comments and thoughts.

Now is your opportunity.
The hospital cannot legally discharge her to her home if she is not safe at home. You can make this clear to them. Her going home is simply not an option.
They will be obliged to send her to a care facility.

 

[pearlsngems]

Also, I cannot stress this enough: when she is sent to a care facility, you must not sign anything that says that you assume responsibility for the cost of her care there-- or they can and will bill you, personally, for it.

If/when she cannot pay for care with her own funds, Medicaid will pick up the tab (of course there is process to apply for it.)

 

[GoldenTouch]

I am sorry to read about your mother’s health but I’m glad it sounds like you are on the path to getting is sorted.
6 years ago I met an elderly lady who moved here from England. No family here. She had dementia-related psychosis. I tried SO hard to get her help. She was not coping at her home - which an awful realestate agent sold her knowing she couldn’t manage the stairs & that she had dementia- she bought & sold 5 homes with him in a year…. I think he should of been charged!
I called her doctor wanting her assessed - wouldn’t listen because I wasn’t related. I called the chemist wanting her medication put into daily doses for breakfast, lunch & tea because I had seen her get confused & thought she would poison herself - also wouldn’t listen…
I had emails going to every agency I could think of with people CC’d in. I was in regular contact with her daughter in the UK who was grateful for my help.
I had been trying to call her for 5 days as I couldn’t drive out to see her due to having a very sick child & had police do a well fare check. I was told she was well. A few days later she came to see me at work but I wasn’t there. They called an ambulance for her because she could hardly walk. She was diabetic (I didn’t know or her daughter) & she wasn’t taking her medication. She nearly had to have her feet amputated. When she was is hospital she was finally assessed & put into a secure living section of a nursing home.
It was a very upsetting time but she was happy in the home in the end. I went to see her all the time & had her daughter stay with me when she came over.
Sadly she has passed away now. I wish you all the best x

 

[HollyJane]

While I understand your wishes here this is easier said than done on a practical level. Do you expect your family to watch this happen and do nothing? See you receive a grocery order and then not have the strength to put them away so all the refrigerated stuff has to be thrown away? See you have a clogged toilet and feces on the carpet and couch and do nothing about it?

I probably won't have any family at that point to be involved. That's one reason why I am so focused on my health and safety. It will be just me.

But, I have been in your shoes with my mom. Many times, she had what I would call "blowouts" where her pants would be soaked in feces and all over the bathroom. She also, like your mother, refused to believe it was her bowel movement and that her pants were soiled. I would have to get her in the shower and clean her up. She was NOT pleasant or compliant.

She also resisted having her Depends changed. My Dad had a knot on his head for weeks where she hit him over the head and while wearing a ring.

The diarrhea situation, when that was improved, helped my mom's health and our environment and caregiving situation. Their may be a solution to your mom's explosive diarrhea situation. That will be just as important if she is living in a care home as in her own home.

 

[FL_runner]

To be clear, she was declared incompetent by the courts and I was appointed as her legal guardian. Therefore I have legal authority to make medical decisions on her behalf as well as decide where she lives. The issue is how to actually physically move her from point A to point B when she won’t go willingly.

I was able to get her to her regular doctor appt today and he agreed she needed to be in the hospital. He called 911 from his office and fortunately this time she went without too much of a fight, although I had my guardianship papers at the ready to force the issue if needed. Hopefully we can get her in a better state physically while we plan for what to do next. Thanks for all of your comments and thoughts.

Honestly, going straight to a memory care facility from the hospital can be a less stressful way to make the transition. The hospital will have social workers/nurse care facilitators who can help you with planning.

Everyone hopes to be able to grow old in their home, but with advanced dementia it’s often an unsafe option, and it takes a lot of strength to make the choices that are right for our loved ones. I’m sending you lots of love and support!

 

[HollyJane]

To be clear, she was declared incompetent by the courts and I was appointed as her legal guardian. Therefore I have legal authority to make medical decisions on her behalf as well as decide where she lives. The issue is how to actually physically move her from point A to point B when she won’t go willingly.

I was able to get her to her regular doctor appt today and he agreed she needed to be in the hospital. He called 911 from his office and fortunately this time she went without too much of a fight, although I had my guardianship papers at the ready to force the issue if needed. Hopefully we can get her in a better state physically while we plan for what to do next. Thanks for all of your comments and thoughts.

Was her interdiction a full or partial interdiction? With partial, it must be specified what areas the person was incompetent - eg medical decisions and financial decisions. Some clients' families I worked with many years ago, made sure to have also included decisions on where to live, as that was a specific concern about the population I used to serve.

 

[FL_runner]

While I understand your wishes here this is easier said than done on a practical level. Do you expect your family to watch this happen and do nothing? See you receive a grocery order and then not have the strength to put them away so all the refrigerated stuff has to be thrown away? See you have a clogged toilet and feces on the carpet and couch and do nothing about it?

That is the hard part. Having to quit your job to watch a family member full time to prevent them from harming themselves isn’t always an option, and if a person is at danger of falls, infections, unable to feed themselves/can’t operate the stove, etc- the constant worry and stress is very hard and you don’t want someone you love to suffer.

 

[FL_runner]

Now is your opportunity.
The hospital cannot legally discharge her to her home if she is not safe at home. You can make this clear to them. Her going home is simply not an option.
They will be obliged to send her to a care facility.

Yes and the plus side is they will know local facilities and have contacts, so you can expedite evaluating the places in your decision making process.

 

[HollyJane]

Honestly, going straight to a memory care facility from the hospital can be a less stressful way to make the transition. The hospital will have social workers/nurse care facilitators who can help you with planning.

Everyone hopes to be able to grow old in their home, but with advanced dementia it’s often an unsafe option, and it takes a lot of strength to make the choices that are right for our loved ones. I’m sending you lots of love and support!

And, still, that is what I prefer for myself.

I'm sorry this is yet another unpopular opinion on this forum, where I'm going against the grain. But, it's my wishes to rot and die in my own home instead of a nursing home.

That doesn't make me unsympathetic to the OP. I went through my own experience with my mom. But, it does have me worried about having my life controlled by another and not living my wishes.

 

[Lookinagain]

But, it does have me worried about having my life controlled by another and not living my wishes.

I understand this, and I gather you think it is or will be just you. But if it weren't, making a decision to rot and die at home is not something most people who care about you could sit by and watch. They are the ones who suffer the most. Not necessarily the person with dementia.

 

[HollyJane]

I understand this, and I gather you think it is or will be just you. But if it weren't, making a decision to rot and die at home is not something most people who care about you could sit by and watch. They are the ones who suffer the most. Not necessarily the person with dementia.

I've been there. My mother had dementia.

I'd rather rot at home then at a nursing home.

My mother had different wishes.

 

[Rfisher]

And, still, that is what I prefer for myself.

I'm sorry this is yet another unpopular opinion on this forum, where I'm going against the grain. But, it's my wishes to rot and die in my own home instead of a nursing home.

That doesn't make me unsympathetic to the OP. I went through my own experience with my mom. But, it does have me worried about having my life controlled by another and not living my wishes.

If I wanted this, and I can be sympathetic as to the reasons why one would, if there’s no family or friends to speak of
I would be purchasing a secluded residence with no neighbors anywhere in sight, in preparation.
benefits me for my wish.
Benefits my neighbors not having to bear witness.

 

[adlgel]

Was her interdiction a full or partial interdiction? With partial, it must be specified what areas the person was incompetent - eg medical decisions and financial decisions. Some clients' families I worked with many years ago, made sure to have also included decisions on where to live, as that was a specific concern about the population I used to serve.

I have full power over her estate and her medical decisions.

 

[HollyJane]

If I wanted this, and I can be sympathetic as to the reasons why one would, if there’s no family or friends to speak of
I would be purchasing a secluded residence with no neighbors anywhere in sight, in preparation.
benefits me for my wish.
Benefits my neighbors not having to bear witness.

I did pick a rural property, which was my lifelong dream. I wish to live and die there. That being said, I working on my health to give myself the best chance of living well and as independently as possible.

 

[Matata]

But, it does have me worried about having my life controlled by another and not living my wishes.

Do you have an advance directive and power of attorney forms done? I just did mine and indicated that when I can no longer function properly (details of what that means are specifically spelled out in the AD). I want food and water withheld and only pain meds administered until I die. If you don't have a friend or family member to carry out your wishes, your attorney can do it, at least in my state. I don't know if rules are different in other states.

 

[lilmosun]

Complicating the transition is having a room available at a place you feel comfortable leaving a loved one in. It can be the biggest challenge. I once read an article explaining that people put off/resist going into senior living but then regret it as they often have the nicer nursing facilities. Something I found to be true.

My MIL had Alzheimer's. For years, we were able to keep her in her house with full-time care but then eventually she needed more. She lived out of state and was placed in a memory care facility close to us. She was told to pack a suitcase and that she was going on vacation with my SIL. The facility told us that while we could visit, she couldn't leave the premises for 2 weeks, the time it usually took for patients to settle in. During that transition period, she was not happy. She kept finding/packing her suitcase insisting that she wanted to go home. But sure enough, she eventually settled in and was happy. In her mind, the place became a hotel she was staying at, her workplace and other places. (Sometimes we'd be at lunch and she would insist she had to get back to work). Fortunately, the facility was VERY nice and with family nearby, we could take her out for walks, meals and visits. Some place I honestly wouldn't mind being if it came to that. (While her memory was shot, she was completely fine physically).

My father was different. Again, we tried to keep him at home as dementia set in. My mom cared for him with help coming in and me flying home once a month to give her a break. The last year it was becoming too much - he was noticeably weaker (falling often) and creating huge messes in the bathroom. We started looking at nursing homes but few had on-site dialysis which he needed. The "nicest" one we found (didn't smell like urine, had caring staff and sunlit rooms) had a waiting list. That being said, I wish we had moved him when he was still able to care for himself to get him in a nicer place. While he was very unhappy and pretty much gave up living, he left no directive and when asked wasn't mentally prepared to die. We were fortunate in that while he was in the hospital recovering from a fall, a room opened up. Used to going to rehab after hospital stays, transferring him wasn't an issue.

Each situation is different so does how to make it happen. I can only hope that this works out @adlgel . I know how hard this time is and something no child wants to go through with a parent.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

my father in law packed his bag every day for weeks on moving into the demetia care unit
he also thought he was at work (he had been retired for at least 20 years)
eventually someone had the forsight to ask us to take the suitcase home with us

my mother faught her 'incantation' for months and months
she didn't know me or remember our dad but she forcefully wanted out of that place

its a terrible disease, it robs people of their dignify and can bring out all the less desirable traits in a person
thankfully my wonderful FIL was a gentleman till the end
but my poor mother just became this rather awful self centred rather selfish person and while my mum was far from perfect she was never selfish

it wasn't fair

we had lovelly nurses looking after both of them but we worried constantly my mother would say something hurtful and racist to this lovelly Filipino nurse
my mother had always had nice manners but we all grew up in a 100% white town and acceptance of foreign cultures was not always welcomed like it is toddy
but thankfully she just callled him Paul (my sister's husband's name)

my mother asulting nurses and lying by telling family members they (the staff) were hurting her caused everyone much worry

 

[adlgel]

My mother is being transferred from the hospital to a sub-acute rehab facility today. Hopefully that gives us time to make a decision on her longer term living situation. She is being treated for a UTI and they have done an endoscopy and colonoscopy so we are still waiting on the results of the biopsies they did during those procedures. So progress is being made thankfully.

Unfortunately I’m now at the emergency vet with one of my 6 month old kittens as we noticed this morning that her left eye was all cloudy. Never a dull moment.