Do you want to see how sausage is made?

[Cerulean]

That's horrible , I'm sorry you had to deal with it both here & the repercussions in real life.

The good here absolutely outweighs the bad!

 

[Big Fat Facets]

@Cerulean

im so sorry you had to experience and endure that. it is uncalled for. i don't recall coming across any of your posts or threads on the matter, though. but i am still sorry that you went through that

 

[voce]

@voce
Sharing vendors operating procedures and how snafus get resolved on PS is considered criticism against a vendor?


This is the crux of what I’m asking.
if it can’t be discussed here - constructively- it’s insider only info and the others are left to their own to learn as they go. Thinking issues never happen to anyone else?
Rinse and repeat?

I'm confused. Maybe I'm not devoting enough time when perusing threads to fully understand what people are talking about.

In general, I'm unimpressed by anyone unable to take civil constructive feedback, even criticism. When you are talking about sausage and operating procedures, that sounded to me like breaking down the steps of the work that vendors charge for and divulging such things as response times and operating margins.

It seems also like some people are referring to some specific thread or instance that I'm entirely clueless about.

 

[Cerulean]

I'm confused. Maybe I'm not devoting enough time when perusing threads to fully understand what people are talking about.

In general, I'm unimpressed by anyone unable to take civil constructive feedback, even criticism. When you are talking about sausage and operating procedures, that sounded to me like breaking down the steps of the work that vendors charge for and divulging such things as response times and operating margins.

It seems also like some people are referring to some specific thread or instance that I'm entirely clueless about.

Sorry I derailed things - not sure if I did (if I brought up the instance you are referring to)

 

[Polabowla]

I'm confused. Maybe I'm not devoting enough time when perusing threads to fully understand what people are talking about.

In general, I'm unimpressed by anyone unable to take civil constructive feedback, even criticism. When you are talking about sausage and operating procedures, that sounded to me like breaking down the steps of the work that vendors charge for and divulging such things as response times and operating margins.

It seems also like some people are referring to some specific thread or instance that I'm entirely clueless about.

I think those are important to know as well

 

[123ducklings]

I definitely want to know how the sausage is made, and I think that’s part of the value of a consumer forum.

I’ve read so many threads that start out with “Vendor is doing [minor innocuous thing] is this standard?” It would be helpful to that initial poster and to other readers if those with knowledge of the process could chime in and provide context and productive feedback. But it seems like those threads often turn into three pages of responses bashing the vendor and making extreme and unfair judgements about their credibility and business practices. I can see why vendors would be wary.

 

[missy]

I suspect there might be a silent "constituency" of PSers who would happily suppress "bad", esp. where it contradicts their world view e.g. a vendor they like. I think many people have a hard time navigating alternate views, and (sometimes unconsciously) prefer that they just don't exist ***cough cough recent banned topics***

I think you already read my posts about multiple PSers "whistle blowing" on what I *thought* was a neutral post asking for help to a vendor, which led to a very uncomfortable exchange between us. So yeah, I'd recommend PSers be wary about posting anything borderline negative about this particular vendor, or PSers might cause issues for you (in all seriousness).

I do think this type of policing is the anti-thesis of what this consumer forum is about.

Agree completely. I don't know which thread you are referring to but that is troubling and I have seen examples of this behavior as well. Not flattering and not OK.

I do appreciate it. It totally shocked and disturbed me at the time, honestly.

The thread in question didn't even name the vendor - multiple people must have trolled through my posts, or happened to have read them, where they saw that I mentioned the vendor's name in a separate thread.

I reported my own post to take it down because it creeped me out so much. I had to plead and apologize to the vendor to even continue the project during a time crunch. (Honestly they must have said something pretty crummy given the reaction?). I am not trying to be dramatic...it is just what happened.

Def over it now, but permanently tarnished my feelings towards the vendor, unfortunately. The ring was a knockout, but it wouldn't have mattered how perfect the end result was.

Anyways, sorry to threadjack. I guess I feel it is important to know that there are PSers who do weird things like this...it is a public forum after all!

I am so sorry you went through that. Creating a beautiful piece of jewelry should be a happy experience not a traumatic one and I am so sorry you had to deal with such stress during that time. I am glad the ring turned out beautifully and I hope you can enjoy it.

 

[missy]

I don't know what your post was, but I find this behavior extremely concerning.
People should be allowed & encouraged to post their experiences, even negative ones for all the reasons mentioned above.
No one should police anyone's reviews or experiences

Yes, this is a consumer forum and as such the members should share info good or bad that allows others to have as much of the full picture as possible. Of course each individual makes up her or his own mind. But not allowing the bad experiences to be shared is unacceptable. And if anyone is bullying anyone else that is unacceptable. IMO that should be grounds for banning. Period. No bullying allowed.

 

[Rfisher]

I definitely want to know how the sausage is made, and I think that’s part of the value of a consumer forum.

I’ve read so many threads that start out with “Vendor is doing [minor innocuous thing] is this standard?” It would be helpful to that initial poster and to other readers if those with knowledge of the process could chime in and provide context and productive feedback. But it seems like those threads often turn into three pages of responses bashing the vendor and making extreme and unfair judgements about their credibility and business practices. I can see why vendors would be wary.

Keeping it ‘fair’ and constructive is key. The OP and the replies. I guess that’s subjective to opinion though. The thread that pops into my mind from your description, the OP didn’t keep it minor and innocuous either though, that really started the replies going wild. I will go ahead and say in that particular instance of outright accusations of scamming/theft/fraud - the vendor probably should be aware that’s what is being said here.

And what happened to me, could have been from someone who doesn’t even post here I suppose.
And I guess perceptions of ‘constructive’ posting about a vendor can vary. The vendors can read my exact words here as well and make up their own minds.

But having someone contact a vendor to tell the vendor I have said something completely negative about them here - information that’s incorrect or completely out of context -
Enough to make future projects and conversations with that vendor uncomfortable - makes one rethink about contributing here in a public and project-centric way.


THAT is why I asked if PS’ers are interested in how the sausage is made.

 

[missy]

But having someone contact a vendor to tell the vendor I have said something completely negative about them here - information that’s incorrect or completely out of context -
Enough to make future projects and conversations with that vendor uncomfortable - makes one rethink about contributing here in a public and project-centric way.


THAT is why I asked if PS’ers are interested in how the sausage is made.

That is uncool. To have someone here contact the vendor telling him/her on that poster is immature at best and malicious at worst. It makes me think perhaps that poster is incentivized to do that. I know some vendors (public knowledge so not a secret) incentivize the consumer to recommend them. I don't think this is an ethical practice but I realize I might be alone in my opinion.

When I recommend someone it is because I truly think they would do a great job and/or find a dream stone for someone. It has zero to do with what I could get from the situation. I don't think it is a good practice to give something to a consumer because they recommend and bring business to that vendor. That brings into question those recommendations. IMO.

 

[Cerulean]

Keeping it ‘fair’ and constructive is key. The OP and the replies. I guess that’s subjective to opinion though. The thread that pops into my mind from your description, the OP didn’t keep it minor and innocuous either though, that really started the replies going wild. I will go ahead and say in that particular instance of outright accusations of scamming/theft/fraud - the vendor probably should be aware that’s what is being said here.

And what happened to me, could have been from someone who doesn’t even post here I suppose.
And I guess perceptions of ‘constructive’ posting about a vendor can vary. The vendors can read my exact words here as well and make up their own minds.

But having someone contact a vendor to tell the vendor I have said something completely negative about them here - information that’s incorrect or completely out of context -
Enough to make future projects and conversations with that vendor uncomfortable - makes one rethink about contributing here in a public and project-centric way.


THAT is why I asked if PS’ers are interested in how the sausage is made.

I think you’ve made a really good distinction between your examples. I’m also really sorry to hear that it has happened to you too.

Maybe, as individual posters - sanity checking with oneself before posting to assess if things sound more heated than you intend - which I think is easy, especially even as it regards minor conflict...

“If the vendor read this, would they agree that this is a reasonable representation of the exchange?”

Maintaining total objectivity is difficult when “making sausage”. But I also would much rather have had a vendor read my posts in their original form and assess on their own.

 

[Cerulean]

That is uncool. To have someone here contact the vendor telling him/her on that poster is immature at best and malicious at worst. It makes me think perhaps that poster is incentivized to do that. I know some vendors (public knowledge so not a secret) incentivize the consumer to recommend them. I don't think this is an ethical practice but I realize I might be alone in my opinion.

When I recommend someone it is because I truly think they would do a great job and/or find a dream stone for someone. It has zero to do with what I could get from the situation. I don't think it is a good practice to give something to a consumer because they recommend and bring business to that vendor. That brings into question those recommendations. IMO.

I agree. I recommend based on personal experience, not incentives. If something brought me joy, I’d like others to experience it too!

But at least in the instance I’ve described - I was under the distinct impression that the vendor was not soliciting details about the forum at all and not inquiring about it, rather it was brought to their attention...

Which begs the question all the more - why would anyone think that is helpful or constructive?

 

[Skyjems]

So many sides to this...

Few comments/thoughts:

-PS is a place to exchange information, the experience of working with a dealer is almost as important as the quality of the product.

-I wonder if the comment that started the thread was simply 'tone' not being understood through email.

-not every vendor is suited to every client, and vice versa. (I'm never terribly impressed when I see that an email chain is 50+ emails long for a $2500 piece, but fifteen years ago, I would have been fine with it)

-PSers can often be full of misinformation (the idea that platinum is cheaper than gold to manufacture is a personal peeve)

At the end of the day, PS is a great community and a great consumer forum, but I wouldn't roast someone for an offhand comment that may not have meant what you thought it meant.

 

[123ducklings]

Keeping it ‘fair’ and constructive is key. The OP and the replies. I guess that’s subjective to opinion though. The thread that pops into my mind from your description, the OP didn’t keep it minor and innocuous either though, that really started the replies going wild. I will go ahead and say in that particular instance of outright accusations of scamming/theft/fraud - the vendor probably should be aware that’s what is being said here.

And what happened to me, could have been from someone who doesn’t even post here I suppose.
And I guess perceptions of ‘constructive’ posting about a vendor can vary. The vendors can read my exact words here as well and make up their own minds.

But having someone contact a vendor to tell the vendor I have said something completely negative about them here - information that’s incorrect or completely out of context -
Enough to make future projects and conversations with that vendor uncomfortable - makes one rethink about contributing here in a public and project-centric way.


THAT is why I asked if PS’ers are interested in how the sausage is made.

I completely agree with you.

In my initial comment I was also thinking of posts like “My jeweler recommended a stone but it scores 2.3 on the HCA, what do you think?” and so many people write in without anyone even seeing the diamond that the jeweler is either an idiot or a conman. Or “Hey can you look at the CAD that meets my desires” and people write back about how that vendor has no integrity is totally ripping off [other vendor]. I can see how a vendor would feel like “yikes, don’t mention me on PS at all” and the initial poster would feel like “I was just asking for info, I didn’t mean to offend.”

 

[CSpan]

I do appreciate it. It totally shocked and disturbed me at the time, honestly.

The thread in question didn't even name the vendor - multiple people must have trolled through my posts, or happened to have read them, where they saw that I mentioned the vendor's name in a separate thread.

I reported my own post to take it down because it creeped me out so much. I had to plead and apologize to the vendor to even continue the project during a time crunch. (Honestly they must have said something pretty crummy given the reaction?). I am not trying to be dramatic...it is just what happened.

Def over it now, but permanently tarnished my feelings towards the vendor, unfortunately. The ring was a knockout, but it wouldn't have mattered how perfect the end result was.

Anyways, sorry to threadjack. I guess I feel it is important to know that there are PSers who do weird things like this...it is a public forum after all!

I had a much milder experience, but similar to @Cerulean someone took a post I made asking for help on something back to the vendor. I have no idea what they said but I made it clear what I had said and offered to send the post, honestly it irritated me so much I considered deleting my account. I can understand being sensitive about your business and wanting your customers to be happy and comfortable relaying their concerns. But sharing posts, it seems mainly out of context, does no one any good. If the vendor wants to come reads posts here on their own fine, but taking posts off here and basically forcing a vendor to decipher them, not helpful. In the middle of projects it is even more insidious because presumably the client and the vendor are still working together. And as has been said it can make for awkward situations.
When I need advice on a CAD or a setting or the color of a stone I don't expect someone to go running to the vendor and while not a pattern it is clearly something that keeps happening (with at 3 different vendors far as I can tell.)

Sorry for that derailment but I feel like it is two sides of the same coin.

I want to know things before I embark on a project or purchase. It let's me be a better consumer and have reasonable expectations.

Recently I was considering a stone from a vendor overseas. The vendor said there was a return policy if the stone was not as stated. But in reading some posts (thank goodness btw) I learned that the vendor would ONLY except returns if the stone was found to be treated. Not if the color didn't match the photos etc. That saved me a large amount of money. Even when I flat out asked the vendor about returns I got a vague answer and finally had to say, if this color doesn't work for me will you take this back, he said no. If that poster hadn't written that-possibly risking someone going back to the vendor who knows-I wouldn't have known to clarify or worse would have been out a lot of money on a store that assumed I could return. When we say business operations this is what it means to me. Do they get irritated with multiple revisions? Will they remake the ring if it isn't right or something is poorly constructed? Are they good with deadlines? Will my emails go unanswered but calls preferred?

Sure everyone is an individual and our interactions can be very specific and I think most people are critical thinkers and can separate that. But if I read that so and so is not good with timelines but makes incredible settings or someone else is great at prongs but doesn't excel at bezels from more than one person then it really helps when I need to decide what is important for that project. It isn't a matter of criticism in my mind.

I have a local jeweler who will take everything out of the case for you and let you try on everything. He will pull out all sorts of stones for you to look at even when he knows you aren't necessarily buying one that day. And he will let you look etc while he takes calls or whatever, you don't feel rushed Now I know not to expect that anywhere else but when I have friends who want to get a feel for a lot of styles I make sure to send them to him. When I have a friend who needs a lot of dedicated individual attention maybe I won't send them there. But knowing those things helps both consumers

 

[Big Fat Facets]

@CSpan

may i ask if you are comfortable sharing this local jeweler's information??

 

[CSpan]

@CSpan

may i ask if you are comfortable sharing this local jeweler's information??

Sure they are in So Cal, Brilliant Diamonds. They have 2 stores.

 

[Karl_K]

There are different types of posts about vendors.
For example someone posts about an issue they are having with a vendor that there is a reasonable solution to and I would expect them to rectify I will send them an email to my contacts high up in the company if I have one..

ps thread
Your people messed up again.
link
Karl
,,,
I will get a reply: on it. Thanks.
A lot of the time its a matter of getting the right people involved.
I have been doing this nearly as long as Iv been on PS.

Other times someone just wants to vent a bit and its allready been resolved or its unsolvable.
I just leave the thread nada I can do.

Other times the thread reads like pure blackmail a reasonable solution has been offered and rejected.
nada I can do there either.

 

[Rfisher]

There are different types of posts about vendors.
For example someone posts about an issue they are having with a vendor that there is a reasonable solution to and I would expect them to rectify I will send them an email to my contacts high up in the company if I have one..

ps thread
Your people messed up again.
link
Karl
,,,
I will get a reply: on it. Thanks.
A lot of the time its a matter of getting the right people involved.
I have been doing this nearly as long as Iv been on PS.

Other times someone just wants to vent a bit and its allready been resolved or its unsolvable.
I just leave the thread nada I can do.

Other times the thread reads like pure blackmail a reasonable solution has been offered and rejected.
nada I can do there either.

It sounds like you are doing this out of a constructive nature. And it sounds like you have the ability to read the tone and intent of the poster and take it into consideration to your action.
This isn’t what I’m posting about. It almost sounds like who you’d contact might even read the actual post here before contacting the OP. Because you weren’t inflammatory in your notification.

I’m posting about @lovessandpaperthongs reading a post and contacting a vendor saying ‘rfisher just posted about you on PS very negatively and that you did exactly what she asked you to do!’

It’s unfortunate that some vendors have no desire to then (or ever) read what was actually written here. What was told to them by lovessandpaperthongs is now their truth, or at least a veil.

So- do we keep all information trivial here? Just pretty pictures and everything’s fine?
No ‘hey I assumed this, but it’s worked out.’
No ‘ I wanted this - but this happened and it’s ok’
No ‘I didn’t realize this - I know better next time’
No ‘this happened and I can’t accept it so it’s being redone’
Is this really too negative?
Is this really bad publicity for a vendor that’s spoken about here?

All success stories and home runs and pretty pictures is great - but not realistic.
And isn’t a learning tool.

If we don’t want to know how the sausage is made - we don’t get to make sausage.
Just the people born/marry into sausage making families and close friends do.
Or you keep making that weird pseudo sausage in your back room and keep it quiet until you reach sausage nirvana on your own.

Eh - maybe that’s not so bad after all.

 

[Karl_K]

It sounds like you are doing this out of a constructive nature. And it sounds like you have the ability to read the tone and intent of the poster and take it into consideration to your action.
after 17 years you pretty much hear it all.

I’m posting about @lovessandpaperthongs reading a post and contacting a vendor saying ‘rfisher just posted about you on PS very negatively and that you did exactly what she asked you to do!’
If they care about serving PS customers they care and will read it.

It’s unfortunate that some vendors have no desire to then (or ever) read what was actually written here. What was told to them by lovessandpaperthongs is now their truth, or at least a veil.
The truth is that some vendors have little to no desire to deal with PS'ers and its not a good fit for them for whatever reason.

 

[Polabowla]

Anyone contacting a vendor to "tattle" about a post is rediculous.

 

[Rfisher]

I’d like to say that I have an open mind enough and not above reflecting/evaluating what I say/do or think.

I’d be nice if the actual poster who contacted this vendor, to came on here to give their thoughts of exactly where I crossed the line with my previous words or actions on this project.

I’m open to different views, and can admit where I’ve wronged or failed. Or overstepped my bounds for the intent of PS sharing of info. Or to know a better and different way of sharing that same vendor educational tidbit information that’s deemed more appropriate?

-however- itd be pretty surprising to actually read here the who and why.

 

[lissyflo]

My gut instinct is that any consumer help site needs to be warts and all reviews, otherwise it becomes a pointless exercise. Only seeing positive reviews is as misleading as reading actively false reviews in terms of valid information imparted to users.

But...mud sticks and halos don't, and one bad review can potentially outweigh a much greater number of positive ones, and that’s where things hit a greyer area in practise for me. I know I'm more hesitant to post negative comments than positive - what if the person was just having a bad day, what if I was making unreasonable requests in the first place, etc. I know how someone resolves problems is telling, but if the bump was potentially of my causing then is raising it in the first place fair, regardless of a positive outcome?

I’m just wondering aloud, but does the way threads are structured cause some of the problems and could we make better use of the testimonials section? If there was a testimonials thread on each vendor, then comments could easily be read in the context of other feedback on that vendor's work, rather than users stumbling on specific standalone threads. That would help us consumers get a view of what the average experience is likely to be, and one bad review might not take on the same connotations for a vendor that it could in a standalone thread.

Or maybe we could find a way to work in some kind of star rating across different categories - timeliness, communication, ability to make changes to CADs, quality (relative to price), etc. Knowing someone always gets 4 or 5 stars for timeliness is good knowledge to have if you want an engagement ring turned around quickly and would be easily accessible from a ratings summary (rather than having to plough through lots of individual threads). A quantitative high level overview of a vendor’s performance (the average of all the ratings they’ve received) across a range of measures might help to set qualitative, personal commentary into a broader context.

I’m not sure what I feel about PSers alerting vendors to negative threads. It could be symptomatic of an unhealthy or unbalanced forum where relationships are too up close and personal for feedback to be impartial. But equally, friendships will form around a common love of bling between vendors and their repeat customers. Giving a vendor a heads up about a thread so they can tackle a problem is one thing, but it sounds like your experience was less straight forward and messier than that.

(And as an aside, I didn't read this thread at first; I stupidly thought it was actually going to be about making sausages. I love sausages and really don't want to know how they're made as I'm pretty sure that would put me off eating them.)

 

[Rfisher]

My gut instinct is that any consumer help site needs to be warts and all reviews, otherwise it becomes a pointless exercise. Only seeing positive reviews is as misleading as reading actively false reviews in terms of valid information imparted to users.

But...mud sticks and halos don't, and one bad review can potentially outweigh a much greater number of positive ones, and that’s where things hit a greyer area in practise for me. I know I'm more hesitant to post negative comments than positive - what if the person was just having a bad day, what if I was making unreasonable requests in the first place, etc. I know how someone resolves problems is telling, but if the bump was potentially of my causing then is raising it in the first place fair, regardless of a positive outcome?

I’m just wondering aloud, but does the way threads are structured cause some of the problems and could we make better use of the testimonials section? If there was a testimonials thread on each vendor, then comments could easily be read in the context of other feedback on that vendor's work, rather than users stumbling on specific standalone threads. That would help us consumers get a view of what the average experience is likely to be, and one bad review might not take on the same connotations for a vendor that it could in a standalone thread.

Or maybe we could find a way to work in some kind of star rating across different categories - timeliness, communication, ability to make changes to CADs, quality (relative to price), etc. Knowing someone always gets 4 or 5 stars for timeliness is good knowledge to have if you want an engagement ring turned around quickly and would be easily accessible from a ratings summary (rather than having to plough through lots of individual threads). A quantitative high level overview of a vendor’s performance (the average of all the ratings they’ve received) across a range of measures might help to set qualitative, personal commentary into a broader context.

I’m not sure what I feel about PSers alerting vendors to negative threads. It could be symptomatic of an unhealthy or unbalanced forum where relationships are too up close and personal for feedback to be impartial. But equally, friendships will form around a common love of bling between vendors and their repeat customers. Giving a vendor a heads up about a thread so they can tackle a problem is one thing, but it sounds like your experience was less straight forward and messier than that.

(And as an aside, I didn't read this thread at first; I stupidly thought it was actually going to be about making sausages. I love sausages and really don't want to know how they're made as I'm pretty sure that would put me off eating them.)

I think these are stellar and well thought out suggestions. Very reasonable.
thank you.
But - there’s always a but- I don’t see this as a good vs bad experience issue? It’s also just speed bumps and vendor specific methodology? I guess that is where perception comes in?

the sausage part - funny!
I know it’s not even a good analogy that I chose to use! See? I could have done better.

Edited to add: @lovessandpaperthongs is a made up person. Any similarity to someone alive or dead is strictly a coincidence.

@lissyflo more edit: so the thinking is that me owning up to my actions/inactions possibly or definitely contributing to speed bump in a process with a vendor - is not fair to the vendor to be posted here? The if I knew then what I know now I would have done differently type scenario is mean or unfair to the vendor?

 

[Cerulean]

I had a much milder experience, but similar to @Cerulean someone took a post I made asking for help on something back to the vendor. I have no idea what they said but I made it clear what I had said and offered to send the post, honestly it irritated me so much I considered deleting my account. I can understand being sensitive about your business and wanting your customers to be happy and comfortable relaying their concerns. But sharing posts, it seems mainly out of context, does no one any good. If the vendor wants to come reads posts here on their own fine, but taking posts off here and basically forcing a vendor to decipher them, not helpful. In the middle of projects it is even more insidious because presumably the client and the vendor are still working together. And as has been said it can make for awkward situations.
When I need advice on a CAD or a setting or the color of a stone I don't expect someone to go running to the vendor and while not a pattern it is clearly something that keeps happening (with at 3 different vendors far as I can tell.)

Sorry for that derailment but I feel like it is two sides of the same coin.

I want to know things before I embark on a project or purchase. It let's me be a better consumer and have reasonable expectations.

Recently I was considering a stone from a vendor overseas. The vendor said there was a return policy if the stone was not as stated. But in reading some posts (thank goodness btw) I learned that the vendor would ONLY except returns if the stone was found to be treated. Not if the color didn't match the photos etc. That saved me a large amount of money. Even when I flat out asked the vendor about returns I got a vague answer and finally had to say, if this color doesn't work for me will you take this back, he said no. If that poster hadn't written that-possibly risking someone going back to the vendor who knows-I wouldn't have known to clarify or worse would have been out a lot of money on a store that assumed I could return. When we say business operations this is what it means to me. Do they get irritated with multiple revisions? Will they remake the ring if it isn't right or something is poorly constructed? Are they good with deadlines? Will my emails go unanswered but calls preferred?

Sure everyone is an individual and our interactions can be very specific and I think most people are critical thinkers and can separate that. But if I read that so and so is not good with timelines but makes incredible settings or someone else is great at prongs but doesn't excel at bezels from more than one person then it really helps when I need to decide what is important for that project. It isn't a matter of criticism in my mind.

I have a local jeweler who will take everything out of the case for you and let you try on everything. He will pull out all sorts of stones for you to look at even when he knows you aren't necessarily buying one that day. And he will let you look etc while he takes calls or whatever, you don't feel rushed Now I know not to expect that anywhere else but when I have friends who want to get a feel for a lot of styles I make sure to send them to him. When I have a friend who needs a lot of dedicated individual attention maybe I won't send them there. But knowing those things helps both consumers

This is startlingly similar. I too nearly deleted my account I was so upset! So sorry it happened to you too! it really spoils something that is supposed to fun - well, or at least not stressful.

I think you are spot on here - knowing what you are getting into is crucial when getting into a project. I have both been to find, and avoid specific designers based on helpful and detailed posts on PS - I have been to able to figure out before wasting a vendor's time and asking for the detailed ins and outs of their business, if they are a good fit for me!

 

[Karl_K]

@Rfisher can you link to the thread/post in question?
I know its not one I passed on to a vendor.
I link not quote anyway, context is needed as well if there are new posts with more info.

 

[yssie]

Jewellery is such an emotional purchase for many people... And one person’s emotional reaction to a situation can be so very different from another’s...

Vendor design capability, aesthetic, and execution - I am very interested in those. But to be honest, I have now had exceptionally good experiences with so many vendors that PS zeitgeist is wary of - or outright warns against! - that I no longer put stock into how beloved a particular vendor is by the PS community, from a perspective of “working with the vendor”. I love PS for introducing me to new vendors - then I will look at work samples, and if I like what I see I’ll call in and see if I click. If I do, I move forward. If I don’t, I go elsewhere. History of good/bad reviews on PS doesn’t affect my decision-making.

The reality is that your experience with a vendor really does depend mostly on quality and quantity of your personal interactions with that vendor! A vendor who knows me well, or with whom I have had some pleasant and promising conversations, is going to advocate more for my interests and be more forgiving with me than a vendor to whom I’m just a number in line. We’re all human! So my advice would be to always open a personal line of communication and judge fit by *that* first and foremost.

I do think that newcomers don’t really understand just how small the PS jewellery community can be. Which is reasonable - how could they? But... A lot of us know each other, and a lot of us consider various vendors personal friends as well as professional acquaintances, and so there are both professional and personal loyalties at play. I will alert my friends-who-happen-to-be-vendors to negativity on PS, because PS posts are public - they can/will eventually find it themselves. What they do with that information is up to them. I do try to keep my personal feelings out of RT recommendations unless solicited, but I’ve lost count of the number of times that I’ve seen sentiments like “I’d never work with ${Insert vendor here}, I’ve heard so many times on here how ${Insert pejorative here} he is!” - what you have heard, without reaching out yourself, is certainly good enough reason for you to decide not to work with someone, but it is not a reasonable, objective, or fair rationale for recommending that someone else avoid that vendor as well, and I will point that out.

 

[yssie]

Edit to add - I had read only a portion of the responses before posting. Now I’ve read them all and I want to comment on one more thing -

PS bullying. Yes, it absolutely does happen, and yes, it’s gutting to be on the receiving end of if you don’t have particularly thick skin (mine’s thicker than it used to be, but that’s not saying much).

Many years ago I had a ring made by an up-and-coming (at that time) vendor. We didn’t click - interactions were polite but sterile. I wasn’t happy with the result, and instead of going back to this vendor, I had the piece remade by a different vendor. The remake was perfect. I then made the error of posting a direct comparison thread here on PS. Criticisms ranged from “I would feel the same way” (validation), through “you should have contacted the original vendor first” (100% true, and my mistake for choosing a vendor with whom I wasn’t comfortable having this conversation), to “the original was great, the new just looks like a jumbled mess of bent wire”. The vendor also informed me that he felt I was using my “PS street cred” cavalierly, without thought for impact on his business. That stung. In hindsight, he was right: I had a responsibility - as a reasonable customer - to reach out to him first, no matter that I wasn’t very comfortable doing so. The customer is most definitely not always right.

I have never, in the years following, recommended against this vendor based on my experience; I have in fact actively recommended him innumerable times. Because if he’s the right person to bring a project to life, then that customer should be free to determine fit. Many beloved PS friends love working with him and I can see why - they click, aesthetically and functionally. The takehomes from my experience aren’t vendor specific - they’re rules like “make sure you and your vendor fit”, “make communication expectations clear up front”, “explicate what happens if the end result isn’t to expectation”.

One other direct result of that experience is that I won’t join a pile on, even if it’s “in support of” a vendor I love. Constructive criticism is helpful and useful, #JumbledMessOfWire commentary is disgraceful and distasteful and I don’t ever want to sink that low.

 

[Rfisher]

@Rfisher can you link to the thread/post in question?
I know its not one I passed on to a vendor.
I link not quote anyway, context is needed as well if there are new posts with more info.

The relationship is bandaged and ok, as far as I know.
Since I have a project in the works with this vendor - I feel linking it here myself is inviting more drama to be shoveled back to the vendor.

Anyone here is free to and welcome to poke me and ever tell me I’m out of line or could have worded something differently, in any of my past recounts of vendor transactions.

it could very well be that situations and information about vendors and projects that I myself would want to know about before my own projects and find them very useful, cannot be said here or on a public forum in any fashion without offending someone to the point of action.

how bad do my run on sentences offend?

 

[yssie]

::HUGS:: @Rfisher - you’ve always seemed like an eminently reasonable person to me

I never find long sentences objectionable