Do You think Student Loans Should be Forgiven?

[Karl_K]

I made the decision to pursue Public Service Loan Forgiveness.

That is not the same thing by a long shot.
I 100% support Public Service Loan Forgiveness.
Thank you for your service to the community.

 

[Arcadian]

I'm not for complete loan forgiveness. A portion thereof for those who meet a particular guideline? yes. Complete forgiveness for those who work in public service? yes.

I went to school on scholarship however even with that I still had 2 jobs. Neither were all that glamorous either. I took out a VERY small loan which has already been paid back.

Frankly I'd like to see more attention put to the trades and I'd like to see federal grants for those who do go to trade schools. Trade school is viable, its a way for those who just don't have the aptitude for college or university to still be educated and earn in many cases great money.

I had 2 nephews who opted out of traditional schooling and did trades instead. One is now a high level chef. The other has his own business in HVAC. I have a niece who started off as a nurses aide. Decided to go to school because she wanted to be an RN. So she went back at kid no. 3. Did Community College first, then to 4 year, then to nursing school. She graduated with no 5 on her hip but she did it. (proud of her!) Sometimes you have to step one way to go the other direction which is what she did.

 

[OreoRosies86]

College should not cost what it does.

 

[Lookinagain]

Makes no sense to me to attend higher priced private colleges for an undergrad degree if you are attending on borrowed money.

I agree with this statement.

Also, instead of loan forgiveness (I'm not talking about forgiveness in return for public service which I endorse) why not put that government money into expanding the public state university systems so that there are more seats at the more affordable schools? If someone decides to go to a very high priced private college knowing that they will be borrowing a huge amount of money, I think they should pay it back. Having more availability at public colleges makes the most sense to me as although not free, they are clearly less expensive than private colleges.

I am not in favor of forgiving school debt for all.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Yes! We don't have to pay back our loans in Australia if we don't work!!!

Just for one degree though. We take it a bit far in Australia. There are people who have never had a proper job and just keep accumulating degrees because they can borrow from the government at really low rates and can defer the debt.

 

[MRBXXXFVVS1]

No, debt is a choice and it should not be forgiven. The money should be invested in improving education instead.

 

[missy]

College should not cost what it does.

I agree for the most part. There should be more choices for affordable options for everyone. You don't have to attend a high priced ivy league college for an excellent education. I would also like to see more affordable options for graduate school and further education in general. Anyone wanting to pursue higher education should not be limited by finances. Everyone should have the opportunity to continue their education in whatever field interests them.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

Why on earth is education so expensive in the first place? Imo, forgiveness is a bandaid. I find that the situation in many other countries - specially European ones - is the fairest, also Australia from what I see. Education is a right, not a privilege, so it is paid or subsidised by the government. However, you need to earn your way in to the programme, because it is on merit. If you still have difficulty paying fees, then there are loan / work-study programmes, and the interest on the loan is manageable. Interest rates in the ~8 range is predatory. Making it so only rich people can afford the best universities, and widening the class gap is terrible.

I think there needs to be some restructuring/forgiveness to help current students, but overall the system itself needs an overhaul.

 

[missy]

This is an interesting article.

Ivy League Scholarships: What Students Need to Know - Scholarships360

Ivy League Scholarships for high school students include generous need based scholarship awards for propsective students.

scholarships360.org

Snip...


"
The good news is that all of the Ivy League schools are need-blind for students from the United States. Harvard, Yale, and Princeton are even need-blind for international students. Need blind admissions means that the ability to pay is not a factor in the admissions process. Nonetheless, students will need very strong credentials to be admitted to an Ivy League schools because admission is extremely competitive.

This need-based financial aid includes grants that don’t need to be repaid, work study, and in some cases, federal student loans. In the case of some Ivy League schools, like Harvard and Princeton, students won’t be packaged with any student loans so you can graduate debt-free.



No, the Ivy League as a group does not award merit, talent, or athletic scholarships to prospective students. Instead, Ivy League colleges offer some of the strongest need-based financial aid programs in the world.

"

 

[eapj]

I’ve worked in higher ed for over 25 years and the issue is too complicated for me to have a quick yes or no opinion. There are some wonderful lower cost options in the US yet so many choose small, private colleges. Those colleges cost a lot because students and their parents are now customers so amenities, etc. have been added to draw in students and now some of those students and parents require the best of everything, which continues the high cost circle.

State colleges lost much of their funding over the past few decades which leads to increased prices for what should be affordable schools. Community colleges have a stigma (but shouldn’t!) so some chose to bypass them and save more. Apprenticeship programs should be encouraged as much as college. I could go on but won’t.

I also see very irresponsible borrowing and students continuing to fail until they are no longer eligible for aid (maybe the college should suspend them? Another complicated question). They then have a huge debt with no degree.

I guess my opinion about forgivenesses is it depends and I sure hope if the US really considers options, they actually ask people with higher ed experience at all levels to be involved. Not just figureheads but people who really know what’s happening. And as someone else said, loan forgiveness may be helpful for many but it doesn’t fix the education culture in this country.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

How does college work in America? Do you rely on highschool grades to get in and you still have to pay or you can just pay your way in? If you get really bad grades in highschool can you still go to college?

What kind of selection criteria do they have for each course? Say you want to be an accountant, is there a cut off mark?

If you don't go to college, is there any other place where you can learn a trade for free?

Does the government pay you welfare while you're young and studying if you come from a poor family?

In Australia we can go learn a trade for free and the government still pays us a minimal amount, enough to catch a train, get lunch etc when we're young. Not enough for rent but we all live at home until we're out of uni/Tafe and employed full time generally.

 

[chrono]

I can only quote my experience.

For entry into college / university - you need both good high school and SAT scores. The better the school, the more stringent the requirement. Math, Science, Engineering & Computer entries also have higher entry bars. These bars will vary from school to school. In short, everyone aims for all As and SAT scores to be in the top 10% for entry into well known state colleges / universities if interested in STEM degrees.

I know the trade schools in my area do not offer free tuition. No idea whether that is the case for other places in the USA.

If one is extremely poor (below poverty level), you can get some welfare support but it is not much (won't even cover all food costs for the month, it is more of a supplemental amount). The amount they gave for tuition used to be able to cover almost full tuition but it barely covers tuition these days.

 

[rocks]

There is a college in the us for every student. Many schools do diagnostic testing for incoming students to determine competency and readiness. Some have to repeat High school level reading and math….in college. Many of these students don’t graduate and rarely are able to find employment. Such a waste of time and money.

 

[Gloria27]

Yes, those fees are a rip off and so is the interest.
I've watched the show Patriot Act and my jaw dropped at how much Americans pay for education and how they end up broke for life...what can I say, come to Europe to study!

Also, if you want to be Paganini, you cannot learn from anyone but a master and start at a very young age, basically have no other life...
Excellence will never be for free, even if education is.

 

[AprilBaby]

My concern is if we offer to write of the debt what happens to future families? Why bother pay your bills if you think waiting will hopefully get a write off. I think community college should be free and then you pay for your two years at a university. Most students are too immature to handle living at university freshman year anyways. ( I say this as the mother of one who manages freshman dorms for 8 years, they have now moved on to student affairs.)
I am also the wife of a former college professor who made next to nothing. For the time spent in preparation and the poor quality students in some classes it was not worth it. He went back into tech and make 3x as much.
Where I live we have a fabulous community college and I would gladly pay a bit more in tax for it to be free. I am also the prodict of community college because my father refused to pay for girls education. Three girls, one son. We all paid our own and my brother got the Cadillac experience at Penn State with a keg every Friday and an apartment.
Guess who is a bum now?

 

[Tekate]

I agree for the most part. There should be more choices for affordable options for everyone. You don't have to attend a high priced ivy league college for an excellent education. I would also like to see more affordable options for graduate school and further education in general. Anyone wanting to pursue higher education should not be limited by finances. Everyone should have the opportunity to continue their education in whatever field interests them.

Hola Missy girlie! bopped in here late last night and was reading this 'interesting' to say the least, thread.

I feel that millenials borrowed because they were told they could and that the economy will be hellishly great and no worries, boy that was wrong.

I paid my own way through college with work/study (thank you NY state), Pell grants (thank you to the people of America for caring enough about me to give me free money), college loans (2), and being a cleaning lady. I paid my loans back and feel forever indebted to the people who supported the programs that gave me Pell grants and work study, w/o this, I'd still be a cleaning lady (albeit I'd own my own business )

I am for forgiveness, our country has a mismatch in skill set and jobs opening up. We have the boomers leaving the stage, it's a crazy time.

 

[liaerfbv]

This whole thread is "spot the boomers" -- Jesus, I could write a thesis on the "I suffered so everyone should" mindset. Sorry I want future generations NOT to be saddled with the student loan debt my husband and I have. I'd love our loans to be forgiven because we would immediately do something **crazy** with all our extra income, like buy a house (ENTITLED) or have a second child (HOW DARE WE DREAM).
I won't be reading or replying further in this thread so save your pearl clutching and whataboutisms for someone else. God I can't wait until this generation isn't voting anymore.

 

[Lula]

This whole thread is "spot the boomers" -- Jesus, I could write a thesis on the "I suffered so everyone should" mindset. Sorry I want future generations NOT to be saddled with the student loan debt my husband and I have. I'd love our loans to be forgiven because we would immediately do something **crazy** with all our extra income, like buy a house (ENTITLED) or have a second child (HOW DARE WE DREAM).
I won't be reading or replying further in this thread so save your pearl clutching and whataboutisms for someone else. God I can't wait until this generation isn't voting anymore.

I'm a boomer and I agree with you 100%. I'm ashamed of how conservative and mean-spirited the boomer generation has become.

 

[Lula]

Hola Missy girlie! bopped in here late last night and was reading this 'interesting' to say the least, thread.

I feel that millenials borrowed because they were told they could and that the economy will be hellishly great and no worries, boy that was wrong.

I paid my own way through college with work/study (thank you NY state), Pell grants (thank you to the people of America for caring enough about me to give me free money), college loans (2), and being a cleaning lady. I paid my loans back and feel forever indebted to the people who supported the programs that gave me Pell grants and work study, w/o this, I'd still be a cleaning lady (albeit I'd own my own business )

I am for forgiveness, our country has a mismatch in skill set and jobs opening up. We have the boomers leaving the stage, it's a crazy time.

I've missed seeing you around these parts.

 

[Cerulean]

I honestly find the attitude "I suffered so it's not fair if other people get a free pass" appalling.

What if we applied that to something like, let's say, voting rights? Don't you want better for your fellow citizens?

Financial literacy in the USA is so poor, that to say it's a "choice" for many is an outright fallacy. And to even "play the game" you not only need a degree, you need a degree from a great school. Great schools cost lots of money. Most Americans don't have lots of money.

I'll tell a story.

My husband's father is illiterate (yes you read that right), never finished high school. Both of his parents worked in factories. No one went to college. No one understood the application process. No one saved money for him. He went to a rural high school and his "advisor" was a joke who not only didn't prepare him with financial advising, they didn't even help him complete the right classes to meet college application requirements.

He was 17, sheltered, and had absolutely no support. Making the biggest financial decision of his life.

He'd never bought anything for himself before this besides a junky car, gasoline, snacks, and video games. He chose the "cheap" liberal arts program at his state school. By the time he started college, both of his parents were on disability and he was helping support them with part-time jobs while in school full-time. He graduated with 40k+ in loans.

Does that sound fair?

Now, scale that problem to tens (maybe hundreds) of thousands of other American youths. With the prevalence of poverty and chronic disease, it's not a far leap.

He is among the lucky ones because he is resourceful, capable and through his own tenacity got a graduate degree from a top school and on to a white-collar job.

Why is there no support for these kids?
Why is school so expensive that it is basically predatory?
Why are kids not taught about finances in schools?
Why do cash cow programs for these ridiculous, frivolous degrees with no job prospects exist in such large numbers?
Why are lenders even letting kids take out these loans when they have no hope of repaying them?

We are systematically failing kids who were like my husband.

 

[nutellakitty]

If it is forgiven, it is completely NOT fair for people who paid the full tuition or spent years working hard to pay off their tuition.
It is the expense people incurred voluntarily but not necessarily to survive, not like a medical bill. This something you choose to take and you should be responsible for it.
It is the same logic that anyone think credit card debt should be forgiven? Do a lot of people justify that it is completely fine to just do spending spree on whatever you cannot afford and declare bankruptcy so you don’t pay for that?

If the education you received does not give you the ability to pay for the tuition or the education gives you the idea that I so it is okay that I don’t pay for it. I felt the education system is a complete failure.

 

[Rhea]

This is interesting. It reminds me of being in high school. The freshmen were taunted and teased, mostly by juniors and seniors. As freshmen, my friends and I hated it. We were lost, alone, and struggling to figure out the different roles and schedules required of us - it was the first time we had to move, often across large buildings, to get between classes. But as juniors my friends, these very reasonable people, suddenly looked forward to getting this "privilege" and teasing the freshmen, one of whom was my little sister. No thank you.

Just because it happened to you, and completely sucked, doesn't mean that it shouldn't be different for other people. Let's not build that ladder, getting out of debt, only to kick the ladder down behind us so others can't benefit.

The system is terrible, it's broken. I avoided debt because I sold my life working 20+ hours per week during term and 50+ hours in holidays for 6 years to graduate. I'm grateful to not have the debt (I didn't have parental assistance), but I also have no friends from then, I didn't have time, I worked so much just to pay for college that B - C grades was the norm for me when I could have been an A - B student, participated in activities college kids normally do such as going to the for fun and learning lectures, sporting events, and I craved to be able to afford to eat in the very social cafeterias rather than my cheaper stir in mac and cheese meals, often while driving between jobs (no really. I'm surprised I didn't kill anyone, I was so tired all the time). I hate my alma mater, who paid for me through a deferred type of system they have since discontinued, I didn't have traditional loans. It's not their fault, but it was a terrible time in my life, and my hate for them cannot be understated. I knew I needed a college degree to get the job I wanted so I did it.

Loan forgiveness might not be the answer, but college fees are a major problem and it is not sustainable. College only for the rich, when it's requirement for many jobs even when it shouldn't be, cannot be the way forward. And I will not burn the ladder down behind me.

 

[missy]

Hola Missy girlie! bopped in here late last night and was reading this 'interesting' to say the least, thread.

I feel that millenials borrowed because they were told they could and that the economy will be hellishly great and no worries, boy that was wrong.

I paid my own way through college with work/study (thank you NY state), Pell grants (thank you to the people of America for caring enough about me to give me free money), college loans (2), and being a cleaning lady. I paid my loans back and feel forever indebted to the people who supported the programs that gave me Pell grants and work study, w/o this, I'd still be a cleaning lady (albeit I'd own my own business )

I am for forgiveness, our country has a mismatch in skill set and jobs opening up. We have the boomers leaving the stage, it's a crazy time.

Love you Kate the great

 

[MRBXXXFVVS1]

Here's a thread where this topic was also discussed:

College Tuition in 20 Years

I did some math and in 20 years time, college tuition will be about $1M/student at a private school, including room and board. I guess if I want 2 kids and to pay for their college, need to save an additional $2M on top of retirement, or just put aside $300K/future child in today's dollars...

www.pricescope.com

Here's what I think about it - I am a liberal millennial, EXCEPT when it comes to this topic:

I struggled with student loans despite working full time, but sacrificed, saved, and worked hard to pay them off. I have mixed feelings about all of this (and bail outs in general). I've also had investments not work out, but I pivot and/or take the loss because it was my choice to invest, there are risks and rewards.

Yes, there definitely needs to be reform and education should be accessible. But, a loan is a choice. I know people and circumstances vary, but I see a lot of people who complain about student loans buy new cars and take fancy vacations.

I would be supportive of some kind of limited, need based student loan modification or repayment program, perhaps zero interest and rolling back the amount owed to the principle (and forgoing accrued interest). Or if people work in underserved industries/roles, they could get their loans forgiven based on years of tenure/service. Or requiring community service and volunteering to "work off" the student loan debt. As long as there is some accountability. I would not be supportive of a blanket student loan forgiveness, unless everyone who paid for their/someone's education got a credit.

Also, in reality the government doesn't have unlimited resources. There are opportunity costs of investing in healthcare, environmental, and many many other deserving causes. With more government spending, comes inflation and greater taxation. There's no "free lunch."

Personally, I'm a huge advocate of solving issues at the "bottom" of the pyramid (similar to Maslov's hierarchy of needs). I believe that everyone should be entitled to healthcare access without worrying about paying for it. Health is ultimately all we have, and most health issues are not due to patient lifestyle and choices. We should prioritize issues like that. Debt is a choice.

 

[Rhea]

If the education you received does not give you the ability to pay for the tuition or the education gives you the idea that I so it is okay that I don’t pay for it. I felt the education system is a complete failure.

There are a lot, and I mean A LOT of jobs which require degrees and pay poorly. Teachers, social workers, nurses.
No, college degrees aren't something an individual needs to survive, but often they are required by society to teach your children, work with the abused women in your area, and treat your medical aliment - none of which pay particularly well.

 

[Rhea]

I honestly find the attitude "I suffered so it's not fair if other people get a free pass" appalling.

What if we applied that to something like, let's say, voting rights? Don't you want better for your fellow citizens?

This. Absolutely this.

I want better for everyone. And I have no children in the game. I don't want other people's children to have the sexual harassment and sexism, lack of rights or the college debt previous generations did. And really, it's no different, let's do better. For everyone. Even if it was sh!t for us.

 

[Lookinagain]

There are a lot, and I mean A LOT of jobs which require degrees and pay poorly. Teachers, social workers, nurses.
No, college degrees aren't something an individual needs to survive, but often they are required by society to teach your children, work with the abused women in your area, and treat your medical aliment - none of which pay particularly well.

I agree with this entirely. But there are also a lot of jobs that require a college degree when one isn't really necessary. For instance, why does a salesperson for certain companies or products really need a college degree? In many instances they don't, but the job description will often say it is a requirement. Many office positions do not really need a person with a college degree, but again, require it. I guess it is a way for companies to sort of "weed out" the pack of applicants, but maybe if this were not so common, we wouldn't have a society where everyone is expected to go to college. It really isn't necessary for many jobs that college grads end up in anyway. I know many successful people in a variety of fields who didn't graduate from college. I think perhaps too much emphasis is put on these degrees, many of which don't actually prepare you for any particular kind of job.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

I honestly find the attitude "I suffered so it's not fair if other people get a free pass" appalling.

What if we applied that to something like, let's say, voting rights? Don't you want better for your fellow citizens?

Financial literacy in the USA is so poor, that to say it's a "choice" for many is an outright fallacy. And to even "play the game" you not only need a degree, you need a degree from a great school. Great schools cost lots of money. Most Americans don't have lots of money.

I'll tell a story.

My husband's father is illiterate (yes you read that right), never finished high school. Both of his parents worked in factories. No one went to college. No one understood the application process. No one saved money for him. He went to a rural high school and his "advisor" was a joke who not only didn't prepare him with financial advising, they didn't even help him complete the right classes to meet college application requirements.

He was 17, sheltered, and had absolutely no support. Making the biggest financial decision of his life.

He'd never bought anything for himself before this besides a junky car, gasoline, snacks, and video games. He chose the "cheap" liberal arts program at his state school. By the time he started college, both of his parents were on disability and he was helping support them with part-time jobs while in school full-time. He graduated with 40k+ in loans.

Does that sound fair?

Now, scale that problem to tens (maybe hundreds) of thousands of other American youths. With the prevalence of poverty and chronic disease, it's not a far leap.

He is among the lucky ones because he is resourceful, capable and through his own tenacity got a graduate degree from a top school and on to a white-collar job.

Why is there no support for these kids?
Why is school so expensive that it is basically predatory?
Why are kids not taught about finances in schools?
Why do cash cow programs for these ridiculous, frivolous degrees with no job prospects exist in such large numbers?
Why are lenders even letting kids take out these loans when they have no hope of repaying them?

We are systematically failing kids who were like my husband.

Hard agree on the bolded bit. I’m extremely lucky that I finished all my education in countries where the ability to get a great education was not predicated on my ability to pay. It wasn’t free, but it was ridiculously cheap compared to the US.

This is reminding me of an incident during my higher education days. I was a part of an extremely demanding programme - we were the tester intake, as they had reworked a lot of the programme for us. At the end of our studies, they would ask us for suggestions and feedback, and all of us recommended changes that would make the programme more balanced and less aneurysm inducing. None of us personally benefited from these changes, but we didn’t for a second think “I had to undergo three nervous breakdowns a semester in order to graduate, it’s not fair for rhe ones after me to have it easy and have time to relax and do things for fun.”

 

[Cerulean]

Hard agree on the bolded bit. I’m extremely lucky that I finished all my education in countries where the ability to get a great education was not predicated on my ability to pay. It wasn’t free, but it was ridiculously cheap compared to the US.

This is reminding me of an incident during my higher education days. I was a part of an extremely demanding programme - we were the tester intake, as they had reworked a lot of the programme for us. At the end of our studies, they would ask us for suggestions and feedback, and all of us recommended changes that would make the programme more balanced and less aneurysm inducing. None of us personally benefited from these changes, but we didn’t for a second think “I had to undergo three nervous breakdowns a semester in order to graduate, it’s not fair for rhe ones after me to have it easy and have time to relax and do things for fun.”

Exactly! Things grow and evolve all the time. Progress can also mean that some people were just in the wrong place and time in history and will never see the benefit. It’s not fair, but all you can do is look forward and try to be a part of positive change.

If you’re only contributing with the hopes that you’ll get something in return…I think that’s very unfortunate and missing the point of what it means to be a member of a society.

I was quite disappointed to read some comments that seemed along those lines.

 

[Rhea]

I agree with this entirely. But there are also a lot of jobs that require a college degree when one isn't really necessary. For instance, why does a salesperson for certain companies or products really need a college degree? In many instances they don't, but the job description will often say it is a requirement. Many office positions do not really need a person with a college degree, but again, require it. I guess it is a way for companies to sort of "weed out" the pack of applicants, but maybe if this were not so common, we wouldn't have a society where everyone is expected to go to college. It really isn't necessary for many jobs that college grads end up in anyway. I know many successful people in a variety of fields who didn't graduate from college. I think perhaps too much emphasis is put on these degrees, many of which don't actually prepare you for any particular kind of job.

100% agree.

I've always found it "amusing" that a job my dad went to tech school for, worked in the field for decades and did well at, later needed a college degree for to the point he was stuck at his current job rather than being able to even sideways move to a different company. He couldn't pass the first question on the damn application.

I see some of the younger people at my current employer who have done courses or training rather than college. I wish this had felt like an option for millennials (at my high school you were "college prep" or "vocational", a word used interchangeably with dumb by kids and staff alike), particularly my husband and sister who both have degrees they felt forced into, didn't need, and don't use. I think that's changing, just not quickly enough and in the meantime fees are continuing to rise.