Do we have the right to judge others’ behavior in this pandemic?

[nala]

Another thread got me thinking... should we hold each other accountable for our high-risk behavior as defined by CDC guidelines during this pandemic? I know that I have started a thread encouraging people to share what their most daring outing has been recently. If you read the thread, you will realize that many posters have broken strict CDC guidelines. Do we have the right to judge those who do? I’m not just referring to not wearing masks. I mean—going on vacations, road trips that you deem safer, hosting gatherings, going to the casino or bars, etc. The idea being that we think we can only control our own actions, but in doing so, are we inadvertently setting of a chain of Infections that will ultimately affect at the very minimum, health care personnel? Have we gotten to the point that we need to shame others who are willing to risk their health for the sake of their emotional or mental well-being ion order to protect the vulnerable and essentials?
I hope we can keep this dialogue respectful as it is coming from a place of reflection. I’m not trying to prove a point.

Ugh. I wanted to add a poll to invite more honesty but I don’t know how to edit for that so if you would like to reply with immunity (lol, pun intended) or impunity just like my yes or like my no. Resourceful, huh? Then you won’t have to engage in banter with others.

 

[nala]

Yes

 

[nala]

No

 

[kenny]

Do we have the right to judge people who endanger everyone by running red lights?
People vary, some don't care about how they are harming others.

Judging is good.

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

I think people inherently judge people all the time. Not to be evil, but it allows us to predict risk associated with engaging with people. With that said, I wear a mask as mandated when out and about and have seen many, many people not wearing masks in stores. And frequently I see store employees and customers who are wearing their mask below their nose. I try to keep in mind that the purpose of a mask is to protect you when you cannot social distance from another person. So I keep mindful to keep at least 6 feet away from that person and don't let it bother me.

 

[Musia]

Do we have the right to judge those who do?

If we judge, people won't participate and tell the truth. Let's not judge, there are many offenders around us in real life who do much more stupid things. Why fight?

 

[Matata]

I don't think referring to judging as a "right" is accurate because it confers a political bent to the word. We judge; it's a part of the human condition to form an opinion or a conclusion. Judging is not a negative behavior. What we do with our opinions (judgments), how we communicate them is key to whether our opinions are harmful or helpful, dismissed or heard. Judging, giving an opinion, is not shaming and I believe using the word "shaming" every time someone is made to feel uncomfortable about an opinion rendered to them is a symptom of our society's inability to deal with reality.

I believe there is an obligation for humans to take care of each other and during this pandemic, I believe it is appropriate to share my opinion regarding masks with whomever I am comfortable. I've spoken to people in the grocery store and those who have made deliveries to my home about proper mask-wearing when they show up with their noses exposed. We currently have mandatory masking in my state and it's rare that I have to ask someone why they aren't complying but I do when I see those people and I am in their vicinity and at risk for exposure. Most people are considerate during the discussion. For those who are not, I'm up for a verbal argument because I've long surpassed my tolerance for BS in regard to covid.

Oops forgot to add. As far as vacations, outings, etc., my opinion is that it's wrong for our area because we are surging in cases so my friends and relatives know that if they engage in those activities, they won't be seeing me for awhile.

 

[nala]

If we judge, people won't participate and tell the truth. Let's not judge, there are many offenders around us in real life who do much more stupid things. Why fight?

Bc this is a dialogue. Bc obviously people don’t seem to agree. Perhaps if we do discuss respectfully we can all gain some insight.

 

[Musia]

Bc this is a dialogue. Bc obviously people don’t seem to agree. Perhaps if we do discuss respectfully we can all gain some insight.

I would love to participate in any respectful dialogue.

 

[nala]

I

I don't think referring to judging as a "right" is accurate because it confers a political bent to the word. We judge; it's a part of the human condition to form an opinion or a conclusion. Judging is not a negative behavior. What we do with our opinions (judgments), how we communicate them is key to whether our opinions are harmful or helpful, dismissed or heard. Judging, giving an opinion, is not shaming and I believe using the word "shaming" every time someone is made to feel uncomfortable about an opinion rendered to them is a symptom of our society's inability to deal with reality.

I believe there is an obligation for humans to take care of each other and during this pandemic, I believe it is appropriate to share my opinion regarding masks with whomever I am comfortable. I've spoken to people in the grocery store and those who have made deliveries to my home about proper mask-wearing when they show up with their noses exposed. We currently have mandatory masking in my state and it's rare that I have to ask someone why they aren't complying but I do when I see those people and I am in their vicinity and at risk for exposure. Most people are considerate during the discussion. For those who are not, I'm up for a verbal argument because I've long surpassed by tolerance for BS in regard to covid.

Oops forgot to add. As far as vacations, outings, etc., my opinion is that it's wrong for our area because we are surging in cases so my friends and relatives know that if they engage in those activities, they won't be seeing me for awhile.

I should have clarified what I meant by judge. As in pass judgement on others verbally. For example: oh hell no! Wtf did you go to the casino in the pandemic! You might have killed someone or you will get Covid and set off a chain of events that will inadvertently kill someone!—hence the shaming.

 

[nala]

I would love to participate in any respectful dialogue.

Feel free! I’m going to stop responding to each person—as I am genuinely more curious than biased.

 

[LemonMoonLex]

No, because we truly don't know the real risk that is there unless we are.
Someone could be going to the grocery store and spreading more Illness themselves then a family who hosts a tiny get together or who goes on a road trip.

It's truly about what they do: hand washing, space, Clorox wipes, mask wearing...and unless we're there there's truly no way to know exactly what someone did or did not do on a trip, gathering, or outing.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

There is no individual 'right' with communicable disease.
That, I think, is where much of the confusion lies about people's individual behavior and the resulting reactions from other individuals.


The key term is knowingly and/or willfully, if this can be ascertained then not only can we judge, we must.
This has happened in the US and UK and they were arrested and charged.

*Its a felony in some US states for people who know they have HIV, viral hepatitis or tuberculosis to intentionally expose another person to their blood, semen, urine, feces or other bodily substances such as saliva with the intent to harass or threaten the person.

Specific Laws and Regulations Governing the Control of Communicable Diseases | Quarantine | CDC

The Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services has statutory responsibility for preventing the introduction, transmission, and spread of communicable diseases in the United States.

www.cdc.gov

42 U.S. Code § 264 - Regulations to control communicable diseases

www.law.cornell.edu

These are but two examples, there are others...

Texas teenager who threatened to spread COVID-19 arrested

A Texas teenager who claimed in social media videos that she was intentionally spreading COVID-19 was in custody Tuesday.

www.kwtx.com

Man, 26, becomes first in UK to be arrested for refusing to self-isolate

A MAN has been arrested in the UK for failing to self-isolate during the coronavirus pandemic. The 26-year-old now faces a £10,000 fine or three months behind bars after being arrested on the Isle …

www.the-sun.com

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

I don't think anyone should be disobeying the law. Much like I can't drive by inventing my own road rules. Whatever the health guidelines are I think that's the minimal standard people should be abiding by and I would totally call the hotline to report someone if they are flouting the government rules regarding lockdown. In Australia we will happily dob in law breakers.


However if someone is not breaking health laws then I think they are entitled to do as they see fit. It may not be wise but it's legal. If others want to bunker down it's their choice. I don't think it's right to go running around forcing your views on others if they're not breaking the law.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

if it effects my safety, my house holds safety, my family, my freinds, my wider community, my city, my country's safety then yes
if it effects the health of the world, quite frankly yes
just because i don't know people living in X, Y or Z town or city or country doesn't mean i want some covid idiot endangering the population

here in NZ we are told repeatedly we are a team of 5 million and we are all in this together, that means every dam one of us needs to be responsible and think of the safety of others - of course no society will ever achieve idiot free status, but I'll do everything i can so no one else leaves behind a bereaved family due to this virus and i expect everyone else to do the same

 

[LilAlex]

Judge -- like decide if they get into heaven? No.

Judge -- like conclude they are horrible people who think only of their own so-called "rights" and not those of others? Yes

 

[scouty]

I only give my opinion to those within what I perceive as my own personal “sphere of influence”; my mom, dad, and DH.

I do not give my opinion to my brother/SIL, friends, or anyone else with regards to how they are approaching Covid-19.

 

[voce]

Judge as in form my opinion about who to avoid, yes. You can't stop anyone from forming an opinion, so everyone has the right to hold an opinion, on actions of others.

Judge as in going up to people to give them a piece of my mind, heck no. You ranting through your mask could release more droplets than them listening, without a mask. I don't think anyone should go around telling others what to do, as this is how many violent confrontations tend to begin. To keep everyone safe, keep your opinion to yourselves, don't preach on the street.

 

[marymm]

Yes, I judge people based on deed and word (myself included), now and always.

 

[Karl_K]

depends,
I look out the window and see people doing stupid stuff..none of my business to say anything.
One of them shows up at my door needing something, they stay outside.

 

[lissyflo]

I try not to judge those who are abiding by the rules but have a higher risk tolerance than me. If the government and its scientific advisors have deemed certain activities as an acceptable risk to society, who am I to know better? There are exceptions that drive me mad and make me extremely judgmental though!

I am rankled beyond belief by people who walk around with their nose hanging out of their masks; for illogical reasons it annoys me more than someone not wearing one in the first place. That one is outside of the government’s rules but I wouldn’t comment for fear of not knowing how the person might react.

I’m staggered by the number of people who’ve told me that they feel too worried to return to work but have jetted off on international holidays this summer - risk associated with work is more worth taking for me than that associated with a frivolous holiday, and I do feel judgmental about those who prioritise pleasure over work and safety.

I’m also intensely annoyed by all the idiots in the press who are criticising the U.K. government for “ruining their holidays” by imposing quarantine restrictions at short notice on people returning from countries with soaring infection rates. Their sense of entitlement to have an uninterrupted holiday in the middle of a pandemic beggars belief, but unfortunately they have the legal right to swan around the globe and so do. One man was even quoted as saying that the government should pay people to quarantine as they were unexpectedly missing work - seriously, if you leave the country during a pandemic, you have to expect legislation to change swiftly and that you might be caught out! We chose to stay at home this year because it seems both the sensible and moral thing to do in the current situation.

I was surprised in another thread by the number of people who said they wouldn’t immediately take up a vaccine if and when one becomes available, instead preferring to wait and see about side effects.

Full altruism, for me, is acting for the greater good even when there’s a neutral or potentially worse outcome for you as an individual. I think it’s fairly easy at the moment as isolating serves not only the greater good but also serves to reduce risk for the person isolating, so their own benefit and that of society are intertwined.

The true altruists, for me, will be the ones who immediately take up a vaccine once offered, rather than waiting to see if others have negative reactions to it. (That’s assuming that the vaccine is deemed clinically safe and that the person doesn’t have a history of dangerous reactions to vaccines.). Those are the people who have full right to judge in my book.

 

[missy]

I do not think judging is bad. No, rather, I think it is good and critical for us as humans to make a better life. However I am speaking of judging actions and not people.

IMO it is not only OK to judge issues it is critical. We should always be questioning. I will always question and judge and allow myself to think critically. I keep an open mind but I do not follow without question. I have no (I try not to have) preconceived notions and I judge behavior and actions and issues. I do not judge people.

I judge things so I can make the best decision for myself. Some choices are better than other choices. Period. Not all paths are equal. However that doesn't mean the people on the better paths are better. No, just that those people are making better choices. Actions/behavior can be bad but that doesn't mean that person is bad. I think it is 100% OK to judge behavior/practices/actions but not judge people.

And some choices just vary. They are not better nor worse. And for different people there are different (and better) choices so not everyone is or should be the same. But there are some choices that are bad. And yes I am going to judge those choices especially if it affects my loved ones or society in any profound way.

If judging means thinking critically then yes I do this all the time. And no it isn't bad. It is important to do. Actions and behavior matter. With judgement we can decide what is the best course for us personally. And it is always in flux. When we get new info we re-evaluate and we can do better. We have to be constantly questioning and re-evaluating because life and info changes and what we do with that is what matters.

Judging isn't bad. But do it from a place of kindness and compassion.
We all walk different paths in life and we all come from different backgrounds and have dealt with challenging issues in life. I don't judge people because until one has walked in their exact shoes one cannot/should not judge.

But yes, I can and will continue judging behavior and actions. It is hard wired into our beings and critical for our survival. IMO.

 

[missy]

 

[seaurchin]

The reason there is so much confusion in the US about Covid-19 in the first place is because our demented president has carried on a surreal, sustained campaign of misinformation about it from the start.

He's sneered at our top scientists and set them up as targets for his followers, while telling America it's a hoax or no big deal and that only crybabies wear masks or social distance. (While getting himself and anyone who comes near him tested several times per day).

Just as with the next election and almost certain calamitous results if Trump "wins" again... well, it's a grave situation for all of us.

So, on the one hand, of course it's typically not the polite or expected thing to confront or correct other adults. On the other hand- the issues on the other hand weigh far more than politeness in this case.

Personally, I speak up if someone is in my space without a mask on and I can't get away from them, but I dread it. It goes against how most of us are raised, I think. Plus, you risk a possibly nasty confrontation, since they actually somehow still believe all the sick propaganda they've been fed from our "leader."

I do resent those who actually somehow still believe the propaganda (Fox et al) and support the dangerous, fascist lunatic-in-chief. A few google searches rather than only listening to his propaganda would easily wake them up. He couldn't get away with all this and more on his own.

 

[lyra]

Oh I certainly judge, but I also take immediate evasive action and usually keep it to myself. Sure I will talk about it online, but I don't want to make a scene with someone I don't know, since that might not be safe. I'm having nightmares about not being able to find my mask suddenly. I do freak at strangers not following the distancing rules, or wearing non-approved masks, etc.

 

[missy]

We stopped at our cycling shop to use the restroom and also pick something up. We parked in the bike lot outside. A guy approached our bike in wonderment. Our bike is unusual so many people are curious. But this person had on no mask so I said sorry, Step back please. No mask-no answering your questions. He put his mask on.

If someone is in my personal space they better be wearing a mask. Or they better get out of my space.

 

[Demon]

I have read some, but not all the replies yet. Before I turned the computer off last night I had started and aborted about three responses because I was too irritated to respond nicely. (Nothing to do with you or your question Nala, its just that it has to be continually pointed out that people are not in this alone unless they live in a cabin in the woods or something) And I guess I still am, but here goes.If someone goes out needlessly and risks exposure, then yes, I am going to judge you.(generic you) Not because you risked exposure for yourself - its because of all the other people you will come in contact with and expose should you have been infected, whether or not you know it. Its because of all the people that those people will then come in contact with. No one's going to be faulted for going to the grocery store, the doctor, family gatherings where people are masked and distanced. But going to crowded places without strict precautions just because someone wants to go to a bar or something, yes I will judge - because of all those people that it could affect. Go somewhere risky/act recklessly and come into contact with NO one for a couple of weeks? No judgment. .And its just a silent judgement so far- I almost never see anyone out in public without a mask. Our governor just extended the mask mandate for another 30 days, and I'm happy about that.

 

[Demon]

Oh I certainly judge, but I also take immediate evasive action and usually keep it to myself. Sure I will talk about it online, but I don't want to make a scene with someone I don't know, since that might not be safe. I'm having nightmares about not being able to find my mask suddenly. I do freak at strangers not following the distancing rules, or wearing non-approved masks, etc.

Oh that sounds like me! Not now, but when the whole mask thing started, and many weren't wearing them, I had a dream about checking out at a convenience store. Someone came up next to me without a mask on and got really close, and I just shoved them away, lol.

 

[redwood66]

Humans judge and there's no getting around it. Period. What they do with their judgement and how they affect that judgement on other humans is an individual choice. Most of what others do is none of my business.

 

[1ofakind]

We stopped at our cycling shop to use the restroom and also pick something up. We parked in the bike lot outside. A guy approached our bike in wonderment. Our bike is unusual so many people are curious. But this person had on no mask so I said sorry, Step back please. No mask-no answering your questions. He put his mask on.

If someone is in my personal space they better be wearing a mask. Or they better get out of my space.

As you describe, your judgement here is that it is not safe to speak close up without a mask. That is an certainly appropriate and you acted accordingly. This could even have led to a further discussion...making an opportunity for dialogue and understanding between the two parties beyond the topic of your bike but thanking him for putting on a mask...emphasizing the importance to you and making an actual point without being pushy.

What you didn't do was to judge the person to be a stupid grandma killer who only ever thinks of himself and probable supports Trump (because who else could be that stupid?). You didn't say something like....if someone he loves dies of Covid maybe he will understand that masks are important. This kind of judgement only serves to make one feel self important and better than others. It is used to justify mistreatment and shaming of others. One thinks that the other so wrong that they actually deserve the mistreatment dolled out to them. This type of judgement serves no greater purpose whatsoever and is mostly what is seen in these threads.