diamond is scratched already?

[mschiano]

Hi,

I bought an engagement ring for my girlfriend in the first week of August from a reputable jewelers place near me, Robbin''s Diamonds. I proposed about two weeks later, she said yes, and has been wearing it since.

Unfortunately, it was a tad big on her, so we went there today to get it resized. It turns out the diamond is scratched. So, they told me to see my insurance company to pay for repair.

Now, maybe I''m a bit ignorant, but doesn''t it take major force to scratch a diamond? I''m a big confused on how I should proceed with this. She''s only been wearing the diamond for about a month, and it''s already scratched?

Can anyone shed some advice for me? Is this common? How much will this cost me to fix?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

scratched = it rubbed on another diamond. Can you see it? Would have seen it when it was new? Or was it possible it was scratched before you bought it?

Does she have another diamond ring that is much higher or much lower than this ring - so they can rub one diamond on the other? That is the only way to "scratch" a diamond.

Chipping though is much easier and a different ball game - is it chipped or scratched?

 

[mschiano]

Hi Garry, thank you for the reply.

We cannot see it with our naked eyes -- only when they put it under the microscope. When I bought it, I was told it was flawless except for the one imperfection they should be within the diamond itself.

The manager of Robbin''s Diamonds told me it was "scratched" and that this sometimes happens with princess cuts. The "scratch" is right near the prong, and looks like 3 smallish lines. I wouldn''t call it a chip, but I''m no expert.

She wears no other rings on that hand, and she recalls never hitting it on something.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

hum, I wonder if it could have happened during the setting? maybe an appraiser could provide enough evidence that it was the setting of the diamond and then the store would be responsible. Hopefully someone will post that knows more about it and can suggest some better advice on the next steps to take.


I would consider, after you learn a little more, emailing him or recording a conversation on the phone where you innocently ask him what he means by "common" and how is it and why it is that this happens so commonly, if suggest that he means \ it is common that the setting of the diamond can cause such problems then it would go along way toward determining if they had been at fault or not. Obviously if he is going to go about confessing that source of the problem was most likely a "common" issue of damage during their setting process, then they would probably be liable for it...but those are just my initial thoughts, for whatever its worth.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

oh and from what I have read if, it is actually scratched and not cracked, mohs hardness ratings are not linear. In other words, while the difference between a mohs rating of 8 and nine might be 2X harder, the difference between a nine (say a sapphire) and a diamond, the diamond is something like 4-5X harder. so, if it is scratched, I think it probably had to be another diamond rubbing it, not just something it hit. Maybe gouging is different, but that would probably be described as a chip, or result in a chip anyway.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Yeah, is it a crack near where the prong is? I'd be concerned it was damaged when being set as well.

 

[mschiano]

i didnt even think of that... will another jeweler be able to tell if it was scratched/chipped when it was being set in the prongs?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I certainly think they could give an opinion. But they should be able to tell if it is a scratch or a crack. I don''t see how she could have scratched it since it would take another diamond to scratch it.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I think you might need an independant appraiser. It is hard for us to help without seeing the ring.

There are a number listed under Resources in the top right corner here.

 

[denverappraiser]

Get it inspected by an independent if you can find one. As Garry points out, scratching is logistically pretty tough for consumers to do and saying that they chipped it during setting is a confrontational issue that gets into a discussion of warranties and the like that they probably would just as soon avoid. At the same time you don’t want to have another jeweler encourage you to return it in the hopes that THEY will get a sale out of the deal.

Are you insured? In most cases, chips are a covered loss.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[mschiano]

thanks for all the replies.

i called the jeweler this morning and he said the diamond is chipped, not scratched -- apparently i misunderstood the conversation. i told him i would call him back pending my decisions on how to proceed.

no insurance. unfortunately, i never got around to it with everything going on in my life -- new job, huge home improvement project, and the like. i am surely kicking myself in the ass now. do generic home owners insurance cover these things? or would i have to typically add something to my home owners insurance to cover the ring?

i just hope it doesn''t cost too much to repair -- $200-300ish would be great, but I feel it''s going to be much more upwards to repair. we''re okay with it having to be fixed, and probably reducing the value of the diamond, but we just want it back on her hand without having to worry about it.

 

[Freakazoid]

It''s up to you, but I''d still go with the indepedent appraiser that has been mentioned before. He could easily be back tracking right now and saying it''s chipped because he realizes that his company may be at fault for the problem. I''d really recommend getting it checked out and see what an indepedent person has to say whether or not it was damaged during the setting process.

 

[denverappraiser]

A ‘generic’ homeowners policy probably won’t cover it but it wouldn’t hurt to ask your agent about it.

Is it covered under a store warranty for the stone, the craftsmanship or both?

Either way, talk to your jeweler about what they can do for repair. Again, it might be worth buying a second expert opinion from an independent on this but it depends on what the store offer is. Basically the process involves pulling out the stone, sending it to a cutter who does a bit of magic, repairing the prongs and resetting the stone. Sometimes this is all pretty easy and has minimal loss to the stone and sometimes it can be a bit of a challenge. The price varies a lot depending on what is involved and the details of both the mounting and the stone but a few hundred dollars is usually sufficient. The jeweler should be able to give you a pretty good estimate before starting on any work. You should know that there is a certain amount of risk for ADDITIONAL damage from this process and that cutters do not generally offer guaranteed results.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

 

[mschiano]

i''m going to check my paperwork and see if there''s a store warranty.

i think one day this week i''m going to take it to another jeweler to see what they think.

thanks again for all the help... it''s eased my mind quite a bit.

 

[elmo]

Another jeweler may or may not be capable of the "forensic" work needed for determining whether there is a workmanship issue that resulted in the problem. An independent's opinion may carry more weight when it comes to convincing the store that they were at fault if that turns out to be the case.

Since Robbins is based in Philly, have you thought about asking Dave Atlas for help on this? He posts here frequently as "oldminer", is also based there, and is very qualified for this sort of work. Of course Neil can help you out on this but local may have some advantages getting everyone to come to terms, not to mention with the logistics.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

well, if it is the robbins diamonds that I found on the web...

is one of these them:

http://www.robbinsdiamonds.com/locations.php


if so things are not looking great, this would seem to be the warranty:

http://www.robbinsdiamonds.com/diamond_warranty.shtml



Lifetime Diamond Warranty

Our Lifetime Diamond Warranty assures you of the following guarantees for life at no charge:

* Lifetime ring cleaning and inspection at no charge.
*Lifetime insurance documentation update service.
*Lifetime value warranty... if you trade your diamond you will receive full value toward another ring of at least twice the original purchase price.

so, well, it doesn''t look promising as there is no mention of chipping, and not even anything about workmanship.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

hey, I was wondering, you said that he could see it with a microscope right? Do you know what type of magnification was using? Great than 10X?

I am just wondering because honestly, you said that you can not see it with your naked eye or feel it with your finger, and so its really just a mind clean thing rather than an eye clean issue--thus the diamond is still just as beautiful as it has always been.

There is a tiny microscopic chip located at the prong of your diamond. Now, your diamond already had inclusions--it wasn''t a flawless diamond, as I believe you said--and now it has a slight invisible non-performance impacting blemish on the surface as well as the natural inclusions inside. Believe me, I would be really upset myself. But at the same time, from what I have read it is fairly common for this to happen with princess shapes because of the corners, and it really isn''t hurting the appearance of her ring at all, and most importantly it is already done, you know?

Thus, in this situation I would suggest just leaving it alone. It is somewhat frustrating, to be sure, but you still have gorgeous princess cut diamond Ering. And if you pay money to " fix" it you will have to sacrifice some things:

1)reduce your diamonds ct weight
2)Pay
3)take the risk having having it unsset repaired and set again (where it might have a microscopic chip again or worse)


then after all that is done, what will have changed?

1) the prongs might be damaged or looked worked on

2) the chip might get worse or the diamond get damaged even worse--something visible this time.

3) You will lose ct weight. Now as it is you can not see the damage, but if you lost alot of ct weight you might see the change in that.

Now, the other possibility is that none of the above take place, what will be the positive effects of getting repair work done?

1) None that change how it looks to your eye.

2) In your mind you will know that there isn''t a tiny blemish

so in the end, your diamond ring will only look either the same or worse. It just doesn''t sound to me like a reasonable risk at this point.

so again I say, maybe you ought to just leave it alone? if you do,

Maybe think of it as a symbol of your lives and future together? You will both undergo hardships as you live. You will both have surprises occur that are not always good--like this small chip. And you will both change in small subtle ways--maybe even big ways--but even as both of you change, get hurt, change, are unhappy about some things, etc etc, you will still hold on to one another and love each other, just as you continue to love your diamond with its slight microscopic chip.

But honestly, either way you go, and I would say before you do anything else as your diamond MIGHT be at even greater risk of damage depending on exactly what happened...YOU NEED to get some insurance NOW

Robbins diamonds warranties state--if that is them-- they provide you with updated insurance information. Go get them to help you figure out how to get it insured and do it today. If nothing else, hit up mutual jewelers, it is a very quick process! and not particularly expensive. get that new paperwork and take care of it, then if something gets worse, or you lose your diamond, it will be replaced from here on out.

 

[mschiano]

can''t see it at all.... he was using 30x magniification...

the diamond is loose in the setting because of the chip, so some work needs to be done... im more worried about losing the diamond off the ring rather than "knowing" its chipped, you know? im also worried that the chip is going to get worse.. its only been 3ish weeks of her wearing it -- whats stopping it from chipping even further?

thanks again for all the replies.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 10/1/2007 2:33:12 PM
Author: mschiano
can't see it at all.... he was using 30x magniification...


the diamond is loose in the setting because of the chip, so some work needs to be done... im more worried about losing the diamond off the ring rather than 'knowing' its chipped, you know? im also worried that the chip is going to get worse.. its only been 3ish weeks of her wearing it -- whats stopping it from chipping even further?


thanks again for all the replies.

well, that is why I would suggest using their warranty that allows for insurance updates. Tell them that you want to get it insured for as close to your original price as you paid (which should be pretty easy with such a small chip), and work with them on the best way to do that. Then once you have it insured you can do whatever work you need done, no work, or whatever steps they say are necessary for securing the diamond, and if the diamond is damaged further your insurance will cover it. Even if the chip gets worse or the diamond falls out, if you can work with them to figure out how to best take care of insurance then it will be fine. So then you have nothing to worry about and it will be just as beautiful as it was the day you bought it.

 

[Fly Girl]

Date: 10/1/2007 3:36:42 PM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards

Date: 10/1/2007 2:33:12 PM
Author: mschiano
can''t see it at all.... he was using 30x magniification...


the diamond is loose in the setting because of the chip, so some work needs to be done... im more worried about losing the diamond off the ring rather than ''knowing'' its chipped, you know? im also worried that the chip is going to get worse.. its only been 3ish weeks of her wearing it -- whats stopping it from chipping even further?


thanks again for all the replies.

well, that is why I would suggest using their warranty that allows for insurance updates. Tell them that you want to get it insured for as close to your original price as you paid (which should be pretty easy with such a small chip), and work with them on the best way to do that. Then once you have it insured you can do whatever work you need done, no work, or whatever steps they say are necessary for securing the diamond, and if the diamond is damaged further your insurance will cover it. Even if the chip gets worse or the diamond falls out, if you can work with them to figure out how to best take care of insurance then it will be fine. So then you have nothing to worry about and it will be just as beautiful as it was the day you bought it.

WHFSR - I work in the insurance industry (albeit, not with jewelry). You can''t buy life insurance if you are on your death bed. You can''t buy health insurance if you are already sick. So, I doubt that you can buy jewelry insurance to repair a ring that is damaged. At least, I wouldn''t write this policy until the ring was fixed. Then it can be insured against any future problems.

It would be nice if you can get a policy for a chipped diamond, but the issues that would raise would be a nightmare (from the company''s point of view). I doubt anyone will underwrite this risk.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

well, since laboratories grade a diamond on 10X magnification I am not sure that this chip will be significant when the appraisal accounts for the laboratory report. and if it were to be secured well enough then I am sure the jewelers know how to handle it and allow insurance. No doubt, chipped rings do get insurance, as being chipped does not mean that the diamond is about to crumble. Thus after getting the diamond secured and getting an appropriate appraisal that the jewelers would provide his insurance would surely be based on that appraisal right? From there he would have to insure that whatever work he did on it did not violate the terms of his insurance, but he would at least have the insurance to help him make decisions, and it looks like his jewelers can probably advise him on how to handle this. but I will be waiting to see what they say!

 

[kcoursolle]

As others have mentioned I really think you should see an independent appraiser. It''s possible that Robbin''s caused the damage and they are trying to get you or your insurance company to pay for it. You can find an independent appraiser by going to the resources tab, then appraisers, then your area.

 

[oldminer]

I agree with others here who have recommended an Independent appraiser. It could be the diamond was chipped when it was set and only now you have been informed. While this might not be the case, it could be. Maybe an appraiser can determine if the chip was there when the stone was unset or if the chip happened during polishing of the diamond. There are some clues on the surface sometimes on dmage and the time it happened. Good luck!

 

[mschiano]

So I went to Robbins today, at the assistant managers request, to show them the ring. The manager that helped me the other day is away on vacation.

Long story short, they''re going to talk to "corporate headquarters" tomorrow to see what they can do for me. They were, this time around, extremely sympathetic and were willing to work with me. They asked what would make me ultimately happy, and I requested that the ring be fixed entirely with minimal visual marks or the like. They said they''ll get back to me first thing tomorrow.

The assistant manager said that the diamond is chipped, but it''s almost as if a "layer" of the diamond was shaved off, more or less. She said that the chip lines were relatively straight and didn''t look all that major.

I have the feeling that this chip was done when the diamond was being set in the prongs. I think they realize this, too, and that''s why they''re working with me now; especially since the general manager is out of the picture for a week or two.

Hopefully I hear some good news tomorrow.

 

[Kaleigh]

Thanks for the update, keeping my fingers crossed for you.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Good news

Sounds like a small cleavage chip caused by the setter slipping when pushing over a prong.

 

[mschiano]

Well, here''s another update.

I never got a call today from the assistant manager despite her specifically saying she would call after speaking with "corporate" people.

However, the original manager I spoke with called me today. He first apologized for the way he handled the situation when we initially went in there and learned about the scratch/chip. I accepted this apology since he seemed sincere. However, as he went on, it became clear that his assistant manager never spoke to him about talking to me. Later in the conversation, he said that he did speak with her, but I knew he was lying and actually called him out on it. Long story short, I went on a large rant about the lack of communication between myself, the general manager, and the assistant manager.

This lead to him apologizing again and telling me that I can do one of two options. One, I could give the ring to them to send to "corporate" -- apparently "corporate" needs to see the ring in order to determine what they can do for me. The assistant manager, yesterday, said the complete opposite. Or two, I could get in touch with my home owners insurance company to see what they can provide. I proceeded to ask him about the assistant manager and her way of dealing with the situation, but he was persistent about it being "policy" that "corporate" sees the ring before determining anything. Finally, he repeated the two options again.

At this time, I was furious -- why should I listen to what my options are? Instead, in a firm voice, I said that he''s not seeing the overall picture and that I actually have three options. The first two being the options he set forward, and the third, I told him, would be for me to seek another jeweler, deal exclusively with them, and never ever come back to Robbins for anything.

At this time, his entire attitude changed. He immediately replied that he can replace the diamond with a similar new diamond entirely for free and asked me what I thought. I replied that I would love that, but I''d have to speak with my fiance. I stated that she would have to make the ultimate decision being that there''s an emotional attachment to the original diamond I gave her. I then went on to ask what if she didn''t want a new diamond. At that time, he stated that the diamond can be fixed for free, if that''s what we wanted. He also went on to say that if the diamond cannot be fixed, he can replace it with a new one entirely for free.

I told him I''d get back to him tomorrow with our decision.

Thanks again for everyones support! It really helped, and I greatly appreciate all of it.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

I would get all of that in writing. You may have to have them call in a number of diamonds for you before you see one that you will accept in place of this one. He might get tired and who knows what would happen then.

way to go though, standing up to him. And honestly, I wouldn''t bother coming back to his store in the future anyway, plenty of better options out there

but don''t ever tell him that

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I now suggest you find an appraiser - preferrably one on pricescopes list - they should behave ethically and with expertise - if not we will have them removed as it is a free listing -

Tell the manager what you are doing, and offer more than one name if there are choices.
Ask that the appraiser arbitrate (ask the appraiser if they are happy to do that first.)

It is possible the appraiser does work for Robbins - it should not be a problem.

Your choice - but I would ask Robbins to pay for the appraiser.
If they argue tell them it will be a lot less costly than paying a lawyer

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

can you give us any details of your ring? while garys advice is great, I am wondering how much those services cost in relation to your diamond. just out of curiosity, obviously you will be able to figure that out by yourself