Custom setting vendor needed for 1925 Tiffany Asscher ER

[john_john]

I can see all of the things you're talking about. And a good tab prong can be produced for a new ring, you don't have to make them bulky and wear them down. did you get cads or a drawing of what it would look like before? did the cads represent the diamonds in the shank accurately? did it sit as high up?

It is pretty, but you're correct there are some distinct differences that make it look different than the original when compared.

We didn't do drawings or CAD or a wax model as I provided the original five photos and said I wanted exactly what was in the photos. I was assured that it would look just like the photos.

 

[Niel]

I can see all of the things you're talking about. And a good tab prong can be produced for a new ring, you don't have to make them bulky and wear them down. did you get cads or a drawing of what it would look like before? did the cads represent the diamonds in the shank accurately? did it sit as high up?

It is pretty, but you're correct there are some distinct differences that make it look different than the original when compared.

We didn't do drawings or CAD or a wax model as I provided the original five photos and said I wanted exactly what was in the photos. I was assured that it would look just like the photos.

hmm ok. Well thats something, what has the vendor offered to do for you to fix your concerns?

 

[john_john]

I can see all of the things you're talking about. And a good tab prong can be produced for a new ring, you don't have to make them bulky and wear them down. did you get cads or a drawing of what it would look like before? did the cads represent the diamonds in the shank accurately? did it sit as high up?

It is pretty, but you're correct there are some distinct differences that make it look different than the original when compared.

We didn't do drawings or CAD or a wax model as I provided the original five photos and said I wanted exactly what was in the photos. I was assured that it would look just like the photos.

hmm ok. Well thats something, what has the vendor offered to do for you to fix your concerns?

I'm going to speak with them tomorrow. Just wanted to get some feedback and opinions from the PS community beforehand to get a better sense of what is reasonable to ask for at this point. I also really wanted to see if anyone thought their prong explanation wasn't correct. Is that kind of prong called a tab prong?

 

[yorkgirl]

To achieve the bigger curve of the side diamonds, I think Joe Escobar has to make the centre diamond 2 melee sizes bigger than the surrounding two diamonds.

 

[Gypsy]

Yeah I agree with you. It's not a good reproduction.

 

[john_john]

I just spoke with the vendor and they were very professional and apologetic. They offered to remake or refund, though there is concern that they would have equal risk in attempting to remake the ring with the hand fabrication. They wanted to cast and do a wax model to ensure it's what we want, but I still believe they ought to be able to do an excellent reproduction with the wealth of information/requirements given in the photos.

I asked to have the master jeweler who did the work review the issues and comparison photos and be asked if he had any comments or concerns about doing a much better remake. I'll get the details tomorrow and report back.

 

[Karl_K]

The original was clearly hand forged or assembled from die struck and would look very soft cast.
There is a lot going on with that setting that is not apparent at first glance.
To do it right is a lot of work.

I am quoting what I said earlier not as a I told you so but as something to think about.
Based on the results so far do you feel this bench can pull it off?

I was originally going to post that this ring would turn out badly trying to make it on a budget then I changed my wording but now I kinda wished I hadn't.
To do this ring right is not a low cost proposition.

 

[john_john]

So the remake ended up not being an option because there was concern from the master jeweler that a hand fabricated remake would have an equal risk of not meeting expectations, so they only offered a full refund option. I honestly was leaning toward the refund given the prong explanation and the general feeling that there was just a lack of attention to detail on this one. I didn't have any confidence in the bench to do better in a remake.

I'll say again it was a pleasure working with Erik at JE and I really appreciate the honesty and professionalism throughout the process. I just feel the bench wasn't capable to implement this reproduction well.

So I'm fully refunded and back to square one. I feel that I may need more guidance in finding a bench that can do this.

Here's some annotated photos I created in order to pinpoint all the issues raised by myself and the PS community:

 

[liaerfbv]

So I'm fully refunded and back to square one. I feel that I may need more guidance in finding a bench that can do this.

What's your budget for the setting again?

 

[liaerfbv]

6k for proof that they can execute the ring you want doesn't sound like hype to me. 6k is a lot of money and I'm not suggesting you throw it away frivolously. But if you are hell bent on a perfect replica, you may need to pay for it.

 

[distracts]

I have to say I actually like the head on the repro more than the original - I do like the original's prongs and cathedral curve more, but I think the head looks squatty and damaged. I do also like the Singlestone version though.

The challenge I have is appreciating why someone asks 6k for this work besides the hype of their business.

Small details. If you're easily satisfied, get a cheaper repro. If you're picky, you're going to have to pay to get every detail the way you want. It's the precision that sets apart elite makers from mainstream ones. *shrug*

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

What finger size/ring is required?

cheers--Sharon

 

[oldcutclubmember]

Lol that is my engagement ring from singlestone. I never posted pics of it as I didn't want them all over the internet/social media but with the internet these days It was bound happen sooner or later I suppose.... Oh well.

I was like your significant other, I showed my then bf/now husband a picture of the inspiration ring and said I wanted something similar. However, please know that my ring is NOT an exact replica as that is NOT what my husband asked for. It was inspired by and is similar to the original but the prongs and the gallery is substantially differen, the shank/band is much thicker, and the shape/curvature of the cathedral is not as concave as the original. So if you do end up going with singlestone and really want an EXACT replica, please make this clear to them.

 

[john_john]

Lol that is my engagement ring from singlestone. I never posted pics of it as I didn't want them all over the internet/social media but with the internet these days It was bound happen sooner or later I suppose.... Oh well.

I was like your significant other, I showed my then bf/now husband a picture of the inspiration ring and said I wanted something similar. However, please know that my ring is NOT an exact replica as that is NOT what my husband asked for. It was inspired by and is similar to the original but the prongs and the gallery is substantially differen, the shank/band is much thicker, and the shape/curvature of the cathedral is not as concave as the original. So if you do end up going with singlestone and really want an EXACT replica, please make this clear to them.

Yeah, Singlestone explained that this was a ring taking inspiration from the tiffany ring. I definitely see all the differences you described.

By the way, I totally understand if you don't want those photos online. I'll flag my post and the quoted post to be removed.

 

[starrylight]

Did your SO specifically state that this is the ring she wants? I would hate for you to spend 6K on a setting she isn't absolutely in love with.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Did your SO specifically state that this is the ring she wants? I would hate for you to spend 6K on a setting she isn't absolutely in love with.

Big gigantic ditto to that!

Muluver, your ring is crazy gorgeous!!!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I think any jeweler who says they can make an exact replica is getting into risky territory. I still think an exact replica will be hard without them having the original to get exact measurements. JE was exactly right to say they wouldn't give it a second try.

 

[CharmyPoo]

The rings look very different too me. I think singlestone is the best option ... if not, try ERD.

 

[john_john]

Getting quotes from VC, SK, 23rd St, and ERD so far for the 2nd attempt. Still unsure which of them is most likely to replicate those prongs.

 

[john_john]

Did your SO specifically state that this is the ring she wants? I would hate for you to spend 6K on a setting she isn't absolutely in love with.

Oh yes. She loves it

 

[john_john]

I browsed through JCK and AGTA awards winners and ended up reaching out to a few additional makers. I'm particularly interested in Juan Da Silva, the master jeweler at Fourtane. Nobody has mentioned him on PS, but he won JCK awards in 2011 and 2012 and was a finalist in 2013. Nicely done video of him as well here: http://www.fourtane.com/custom-jewelry. He also mentioned that he believe the original ring had a round diamond based on the prongs and the round crown. He suggested that Tiffany would have never had the prongs on the sides of the asscher, leaving the corners vulnerable. He suggested some modifications to complement the asscher more: prongs on the corners and a crown shaped like the stone.

Here's a couple other award winners I found that are open to the work:

Uneek (Benjamin Javaheri)
Mark Schneider

I'd sketch it up with Juan Da Silva at Fourtane, which I worry may not be as precise as CAD in terms of figuring out exact dimensions of things. Perhaps he draws to scale and has some accurate method of getting measurements?

ERD is offering me CAD to get the modeling and dimensions right before they'd do full hand forging of the ring (I've been assured no casting or use of cast parts).

 

[Karl_K]

He suggested that Tiffany would have never had the prongs on the sides of the asscher, leaving the corners vulnerable.

He is wrong, Tiffany did indeed mount them on the flats.
I have seen a "verified" 1920s era Tiffany so set.
I was not allowed to take pics however. :{
As long as the corners are reasonably wide there is not a great threat.
I have the original Octavia mounted on the flats in a pendant.

 

[MollyMalone]

Karl, do you think the Asscher in the inspiration ring is the original stone? I found myself agreeing with distracts that the head looks damaged:
http://erstwhilejewelry.com/product...ut-diamond-engagement-ring-by-tiffany-and-co/
And is it likely that Erstwhile Jewelry (or any other dealer) would pull a 1 ct stone from a Tiffany & Co., Deco-era setting just so it could be sent off to GIA for grading?

 

[Karl_K]

Karl, do you think the Asscher in the inspiration ring is the original stone? I found myself agreeing with distracts that the head looks damaged:
http://erstwhilejewelry.com/product...ut-diamond-engagement-ring-by-tiffany-and-co/
And is it likely that Erstwhile Jewelry (or any other dealer) would pull a 1 ct stone from a Tiffany & Co., Deco-era setting just so it could be sent off to GIA for grading?

Well since GIA was established in 1931 and it has a gia report it was removed at some point.

 

[MollyMalone]

Well since GIA was established in 1931 and it has a gia report it was removed at some point.

That's true only if we assume that the Asscher with the GIA report is the original center stone

 

[Karl_K]

Well since GIA was established in 1931 and it has a gia report it was removed at some point.

That's true only if we assume that the Asscher with the GIA report is the original center stone

Well.....<smart ack reply> if its not the original stone then it was out of that setting at one point. :}
couldn't tell ya if it is or isn't the original.
I do know Tiffany did set Asschers on the flats so that isn't a way to tell.
They also used the same setting for different shaped stones.

 

[john_john]

Well since GIA was established in 1931 and it has a gia report it was removed at some point.

That's true only if we assume that the Asscher with the GIA report is the original center stone

Well.....<smart ack reply> if its not the original stone then it was out of that setting at one point. :}
couldn't tell ya if it is or isn't the original.
I do know Tiffany did set Asschers on the flats so that isn't a way to tell.
They also used the same setting for different shaped stones.

Thanks Karl_K. This is great information to have. Have you ever seen prongs like this on another ring? I've looked endlessly for it with no luck. Also, do you believe the platinum has any special characteristics which create that warm color or is it simply the photography lighting?

 

[oldcutclubmember]

I browsed through JCK and AGTA awards winners and ended up reaching out to a few additional makers. I'm particularly interested in Juan Da Silva, the master jeweler at Fourtane. Nobody has mentioned him on PS, but he won JCK awards in 2011 and 2012 and was a finalist in 2013. Nicely done video of him as well here: http://www.fourtane.com/custom-jewelry. He also mentioned that he believe the original ring had a round diamond based on the prongs and the round crown. He suggested that Tiffany would have never had the prongs on the sides of the asscher, leaving the corners vulnerable. He suggested some modifications to complement the asscher more: prongs on the corners and a crown shaped like the stone.

Here's a couple other award winners I found that are open to the work:

Uneek (Benjamin Javaheri)
Mark Schneider

I'd sketch it up with Juan Da Silva at Fourtane, which I worry may not be as precise as CAD in terms of figuring out exact dimensions of things. Perhaps he draws to scale and has some accurate method of getting measurements?

ERD is offering me CAD to get the modeling and dimensions right before they'd do full hand forging of the ring (I've been assured no casting or use of cast parts).

john_john,

Thank for getting the pictures removed. I appreciate it!

As for the shape of the crown, my ring also has an octagonal shape to mimic the shape of the stone. That was another difference that I forgot to mention from the original.

To me, the warmness to the color of the metal in the original ring seems to be just patina that has built over time. But if you want to achieve the similar warmth from the beginning, you may want to look into unplated WG for your ER.

 

[oldcutclubmember]

Did your SO specifically state that this is the ring she wants? I would hate for you to spend 6K on a setting she isn't absolutely in love with.

Big gigantic ditto to that!

Muluver, your ring is crazy gorgeous!!!

Thank you, DS!!! I love it so much and I really like the way it looks with my frenchcut/oec wedding band!

 

[distracts]

Thanks Karl_K. This is great information to have. Have you ever seen prongs like this on another ring? I've looked endlessly for it with no luck. Also, do you believe the platinum has any special characteristics which create that warm color or is it simply the photography lighting?

The plat color is definitely just the lighting. The boards the ring is photographed on look pinkish-brown in that picture, but in lots of the other pictures, while clearly the same boards, they are whitish-grey. If you scroll through their sold gallery and get down near the end you can clearly see when they started changing their photography setup to white balance better or w/e.