Coronavirus in Europe

[AGBF]

"The New York Times" reported that the UK is seriously locking down due to the surge in covid19 cases. Please report on what is happening in other European countries if you have knowledge of what is happening there.

"Prime Minister Boris Johnson announced new nationwide restrictions at a hastily called news conference after an emergency meeting of his cabinet. After weeks of resisting calls for a lockdown, he is shutting pubs, restaurants and most retail stores, starting Thursday until Dec. 2. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland had already instituted such restrictions, which now also apply to England."

Covid-19: England Sets Lockdown as Resurgent Virus Consumes Europe (Published 2020)

The United States reported nearly 100,000 new cases, a single-day record, with two dozen states breaking records.

www.nytimes.com

 

[lissyflo]

Yes, England is back in a full national lockdown for 4 weeks starting this coming Thursday. All non-essential shops shut, restaurants/cafes are takeaway only, stay at home except for essential food shopping/medical appointments, and work from home if at all possible. No meeting anyone from other households indoors and can only meet one person from outside your household outdoors in public (so meeting others in your garden is not allowed). We’re pretty much back to the square one original lockdown, except that schools are staying open this time.

Wales and Northern Ireland were already in lockdowns, but I think Scotland is still using a locally tiered system of controls rather than blanket national restrictions.

I’m incredibly annoyed. If everyone had just been willing to make some small compromises to their lifestyle, we might not have all needed to make this second, massive compromise.

I’ll update for other European countries once I’ve read today’s paper as it usually includes a summary of positions. I know Belgium is very bad again and on the brink of huge problems with healthcare capacity (I heard their case numbers being described as a tsunami), and there were pictures in our paper of grid locked streets in Paris a couple of days ago; there was a mass exodus to try to avoid being caught in their second lockdown. @kipari will know more about France -hope you’re doing better there in general than we are...

 

[Roselina]

Numbers are exploding here. Several countries lock down again (at least partially). Amongst them Austria, Germany, France, England). Switzerland’s numbers rise extreme quickly, there are strict measures but no full lockdown yet, but rather a slowdown.

 

[Snowdrop13]

Yes, here in Scotland we‘re going to be under a 5 tier system, 0-4. Most of the central belt is Tier 3, and much of the rest is Tier 2. Tier 4 is total lockdown, so we’re not quite there yet. I work in a hospital and things are changing fast, with an increase in ITU capacity and reduction in planned work. Groundhog Day, I’m afraid.

 

[dk168]

I anticipated a second national lockdown in UK at least a month if not 2 months ago.

Other European countries have seen a surge in confirmed cases, and as cases increase, so does deaths!

The second wave is very real indeed.

DK

 

[maryjane04]

I live in Melbourne and we've just come out of hard lockdown. Initially it was meant to be for 4 weeks but reality is, even after 4 weeks it wasn't enough to reopen. So it ended up being closer to 8 weeks.

I really feel for you guys with the winter and Christmas ahead. Sending my thoughts to everyone in Europe xx

 

[dk168]

@maryjane04 thank you.

I decided to cancel Christmas when I could foresee a second national lockdown about 2 months ago.

At the time, I expected the "new normal" to continue for months to come, meaning there would be no events and no celebrations of any kind, unlike previous years.

So I decided not to bother with make cards and Christmas goodies bags - December was a very busy month in my kitchen.

Besides, thanks to the "B" event in UK, I shall be busy working this December!

If the ban of staying away from home overnight is still in place for the holiday period, it would mean cancelling my camping trip away from home, down by the coast with the dog.

NBD as it means I can cook up a storm in my house, in a full size kitchen as I normally do, on my own (I cannot deal with other people's drama), with the pets (the cat will be pleased as it means she does not need to go to the cattery), instead of the tiny kitchen on my campervan (the mini oven is only 12L in size, and there is only 2 hobs).

Onwards and upwards they say. I am going to ride this out, and won't not let the b*****ds get me down.

DK

 

[lissyflo]

I live in Melbourne and we've just come out of hard lockdown. Initially it was meant to be for 4 weeks but reality is, even after 4 weeks it wasn't enough to reopen. So it ended up being closer to 8 weeks.

I really feel for you guys with the winter and Christmas ahead. Sending my thoughts to everyone in Europe xx

They didn’t say as much but I’m assuming this will be a much longer lockdown than only 4 weeks. Our caseload is apparantly already higher than it was in March (I’m sure I’m right in saying that), plus we’re now in winter as you say, so I can’t see any situation in which a 4 week lockdown will be enough to get numbers under control. The only possible relief is that treatments are better now. If hospitals can clear beds a bit quicker, then maybe we’ll be able to get back to a less compromised situation more quickly than in March?

 

[lissyflo]

@maryjane04 thank you.

I decided to cancel Christmas when I could foresee a second national lockdown about 2 months ago.

At the time, I expected the "new normal" to continue for months to come, meaning there would be no events and no celebrations of any kind, unlike previous years.

So I decided not to bother with make cards and Christmas goodies bags - December was a very busy month in my kitchen.

Besides, thanks to the "B" event in UK, I shall be busy working this December!

If the ban of staying away from home overnight is still in place for the holiday period, it would mean cancelling my camping trip away from home, down by the coast with the dog.

NBD as it means I can cook up a storm in my house, in a full size kitchen as I normally do, on my own (I cannot deal with other people's drama), with the pets (the cat will be pleased as it means she does not need to go to the cattery), instead of the tiny kitchen on my campervan (the mini oven is only 12L in size, and there is only 2 hobs).

Onwards and upwards they say. I am going to ride this out, and won't not let the b*****ds get me down.

DK

This is the mentality I’m trying to adopt too. Accept what it is, make the most of the different possibilities and keep head down to get through it. I might ditch Christmas dinner and do beans on toast - more time to snuggle in front of rubbish tv with a glass or two of Advocaat snowball!

 

[dk168]

This is the mentality I’m trying to adopt too. Accept what it is, make the most of the different possibilities and keep head down to get through it. I might ditch Christmas dinner and do beans on toast - more time to snuggle in front of rubbish tv with a glass or two of Advocaat snowball!

Indeed for the need to stay positive at times like this.

I LOVE Snowball, usually in a pint glass when I am making it at home!

DK

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

Germany and France have almost the same measures.

Bars and Restaurants and all non-essential businesses closed.

Pick up and delivery for goods authorized. No meal delivery AFAIK.


Schools remain open, workplaces strongly encouraged to switch to remote.

In France the following measures are much softer than last time around , but tighter than in Germany:

No mandatory closing of *all* businesses like last time.


But one can again only go out 1 h for leisure /physical activity within a 1 km radius around your home. For all movements one needs to fill in the government form and sign "The declaration upon one's honour " that one is only moving to

-assist a person in need of help
-grocery shop
- taking that leisure time outside

For school drop off+ pick up and work, schools and workplaces will hand out forms tomorrow with official school / work stamps and the details of the kids and parents (name and address) to everyone. So that one can do these daily movements without problem.

I found it odd the last time around, but it really seems to call upon the conscience of people and they seem to realize their responsibility more this way. Especially the old and very young ... If you are reminded of the the reasons you need to go out and of the possible fine of 135€, people are less inclined to just strut out on a whim.


Masks have been mandatory outside at all times in many places already. Now this is nearly universal.

Desinfectant has been available at each shop entry and multiple more stations in shops since reopening. Often with a hostess reminding or dispensing the gel.

Our school entry tomorrow will be... Interesting..

There's been mandatory hand sanitizing at two stations upon entry anyways. And checking of the student ID card (our school is small, so the person knows the pupils and parents anyways and won't let strangers through).. Which is good.

Now we're on maximum terrorism alert as well, so the areas around schools are blocked off (I wrote about it: a teacher was killed. Then three people praying in a church and now A priest has been shot yesterday ).

All that plus everyone masked and nervous... We'll see how it goes.

I wrote about the multi layered safety measures inside schools already. They're trying to tighten those as well, especially regarding meals.

 

[Bron357]

Sydney, Australia is doing ok.
Most States have “closed” borders to limit people moving about too much and for the most part people are staying close to home.
schools are all back though most Universities are limited to lab work, lectures etc are all on line. Many people are still working from home as much as possible. Still limits on people attending events (like no attending race meetings oe major sporting events) Most places people are wearing masks and most shops have sanitizer available. shops have limits as to how many are allowed inside at the same time but it’s not too strictly enforced. Like many other people I’m still only doing what’s necessary and staying close to home.
Because our numbers have stayed low, contact testing can be done quickly and accurately. There seems to be a point where it all snowballs dramatically once numbers start increasing. We have avoided that scenario so far. Sending hugs to everyone out there doing it tough, well get there. It’s tough and no fun but we’ll make it through.

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

I’m incredibly annoyed. If everyone had just been willing to make some small compromises to their lifestyle, we might not have all needed to make this second, massive compromise.

Yes I'm incredibly upset as well. I'm 100% with you on this!!!

grid locked streets in Paris a couple of days ago; there was a mass exodus to try to avoid being caught in their second lockdown.

I personally was under the impression that the locked street in Paris were due to people driving home after school holidays.
School starts tomorrow and the lockdown came into effect Thursday at 9 p. M.

So many people came back early (rentals are usually from Saturday to Saturday and our curfew started at 9 anyways).
All that said: it was made clear to us that this weekend was still allowing for everyone to come home safely by car , plane or train. Upon showing one's ticket one can still be out after 9 without getting fined.

Same goes for arrangements that have been made for childcare during holidays.

Last time many Parisians chose to be locked up at their second homes or rentals (appartements are TINY TINY TINY). With kids at school this time around this isn't possible.

So I seriously doubt the mass exodus theory.

 

[nojs]

Hello from Finland. We have some restrictions, but not that many. Wearing a mask is recommended in public places but it is not compulsory. Nearly every place is open, although there are limited seating and opening hours in restaurants and bars.

Meeting friends and family in large numbers is advised against, but it is still allowed.

I feel things are quite ok and hope it stays like this. Hospitals are ok and there are not that many deaths.

I hope you all stay safe and healthy!

 

[737liz]

Like @Roselina Said, Swiss numbers are going up. Rather quickly. Especially in the 3 'big' urban areas. No private gatherings if more than 5 people and only compulsory schooling is allowed. Extracurriculars are mostly cancelled. Masks are compulsory inside and while waiting for public transport, and in heavily trafficed outdoor areas such as farmers markets.

We have had anti masker protests a few months back, and people publicly following the rules but privately carrying on with dinner parties and no social distancing. But, for the most part here, I see people following the rules. the expat forums are always an interesting mix of conspiracy theorists and people who want ud all to literally bunker down (almost all Swiss buildings have bomb shelters). It has been very hard on my friend/neighbor who is in her 80s as everyone is scared to socialise with her and she feels very isolated. She has repeatedly told me that preserving her health for a life of loneliness is not worth it.

 

[lissyflo]

Yes I'm incredibly upset as well. I'm 100% with you on this!!!






I personally was under the impression that the locked street in Paris were due to people driving home after school holidays.
School starts tomorrow and the lockdown came into effect Thursday at 9 p. M.

So many people came back early (rentals are usually from Saturday to Saturday and our curfew started at 9 anyways).
All that said: it was made clear to us that this weekend was still allowing for everyone to come home safely by car , plane or train. Upon showing one's ticket one can still be out after 9 without getting fined.

Same goes for arrangements that have been made for childcare during holidays.

Last time many Parisians chose to be locked up at their second homes or rentals (appartements are TINY TINY TINY). With kids at school this time around this isn't possible.

So I seriously doubt the mass exodus theory.

That’s really interesting about the gridlock. I often wonder if papers are deliberately misreporting news in this area to manage our perception of the situation in the UK. The Times yesterday (which is normally sensible) had the world corona update headline as ‘Mayhem on the roads as thousands flee Paris’ and described it as an exodus to the provinces. But what you say about schools remaining open and families therefore having to stay makes perfect sense.

I truly hate the situation where between fake news and government propaganda it’s not even possible to trust what a broadsheet paper reports.

 

[lissyflo]

It has been very hard on my friend/neighbor who is in her 80s as everyone is scared to socialise with her and she feels very isolated. She has repeatedly told me that preserving her health for a life of loneliness is not worth it.

This breaks my heart

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

That’s really interesting about the gridlock. I often wonder if papers are deliberately misreporting news in this area to manage our perception of the situation in the UK. The Times yesterday (which is normally sensible) had the world corona update headline as ‘Mayhem on the roads as thousands flee Paris’ and described it as an exodus to the provinces. But what you say about schools remaining open and families therefore having to stay makes perfect sense.

I truly hate the situation where between fake news and government propaganda it’s not even possible to trust what a broadsheet paper reports.

Yeah, this sounds a little ott. It is accurate that many people chose to rent by the sea or in the country side last time (which comes, of course with a different set of problems).

But not this time.

I can see the same tendency in Germany.
As long as France is worse off, one feels better oneself.

Tragically Germany's Chief Epidemiologist Drosten is right: Germany is not better off, it's just 2 weeks behind.
This had saved them last time around with the wave coming upwards to the North from Italy.

This time the time lag might help, but they're already over the 20 k cases. So It's going exponentially from now on...

Same for the UK, one could have fared much better, taking advantage of the geographical advantage as an island. I hope things will be much much better this time around.

Fingers crossed field everyone. We're in this together anyways. One nation loses, everyone loses ultimately.

 

[missy]

It has been very hard on my friend/neighbor who is in her 80s as everyone is scared to socialise with her and she feels very isolated. She has repeatedly told me that preserving her health for a life of loneliness is not worth it.

This breaks my heart

Yes me too. I wonder if some family/friends close to her can include her in their "bubble" and spend time with her and keep her company? I mean if everyone is quarantining then why can't one of these families reach out and include her as she is quarantining too? That way she can be in their bubble and enjoy their company. Just thinking out loud. Loneliness can kill.

 

[OoohShiny]

This breaks my heart

Apparently living one's last years in loneliness and hastened mental decline from lack of interaction is worth it just as long as one doesn't get Covid-19, an illness which the vast majority recover from, even at 80+ years old.

Quantity over quality at all costs, it seems.

 

[dk168]

On a personal note, I just sent an e-mail to the firm carrying out the conversion on my van, to say not to worry if the conversion is not completed in time for me to go away during the festive period, as I fully expect some form of restrictions to be in place, including not being able to stay overnight away from home!

Hopefully, this will help to ease their worries a bit during these difficult times!

DK

 

[missy]

Apparently living one's last years in loneliness and hastened mental decline from lack of interaction is worth it just as long as one doesn't get Covid-19, an illness which the vast majority recover from, even at 80+ years old.

Quantity over quality, it seems.

I know you are writing this with sarcasm. I doubt anyone here would say quantity over quality. Each individual case needs to be taken on an individual basis IMO. This woman shouldn't have to be all alone. She should be included in someone's bubble. Period. Someone/family who lives nearby and is friends with her should step up to the plate. Very sad situation.

 

[OoohShiny]

Here in the UK we are now apparently going to be treated like a herd of cattle and whole towns/cities forcibly tested against our will with the Army involved somehow - and if we test positive, they will 'immediately 'help' us to self isolate'... by which I am assuming we could potentially be carted off to a quarantine facility under Schedule 21 of the Coronavirus legislation, that states we can be taken against our will to a testing facility and held for, AFAICS, up to 48 hours initially but then up to another 14 days (or even longer if that decision is reviewed and extended again), with the only chance of getting out being a direct appeal to a Court of Law.

(Next two minutes of the video.)


Schedule 21 legislation is here:

Coronavirus Act 2020

www.legislation.gov.uk

The guidance for those doing the removing is here:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...h_officers_potentially_infectious_persons.pdf


I live in what is supposed to be a free country. I did not agree to this. We are not 'guilty' of having Covid until we prove our innocence - that position is a fundamental and far-reaching reversal of our hard-fought 'innocent until proven guilty' ethos in this country.

 

[OoohShiny]

I know you are writing this with sarcasm. I doubt anyone here would say quantity over quality. Each individual case needs to be taken on an individual basis IMO. This woman shouldn't have to be all alone. She should be included in someone's bubble. Period. Someone/family who lives nearby and is friends with her should step up to the plate. Very sad situation.

I'm glad that came across lol


If:

- all the families around her (including her own, if she has one) have already created a support bubble with another single person from their own family;

- all the single people around her are in a support bubble with a family;

here in the UK it would not be legal for her to form a support bubble with any of those people.


I'm aware that we are not supposed to be 'political' on the forum right now, so please note that I am not being critical of 'The Government' because they are a particular party - I am being critical as I would be whoever was in power right now, as it doesn't matter who is enacting this cruel legislation; it is the fact it is being enacted at all that deserves criticism.

'They' do not give a toss about these people, though. Depression was doubled by summer, 36-38% of people are experiencing high levels of anxiety, and right now, suicide attempts are up 70% - but so what? As long as 'they' can pretend that they are 'controlling the virus'

Depression doubles during coronavirus pandemic

Figures suggest one in five adults in Britain are experiencing depressive symptoms.

www.bbc.co.uk

Coronavirus and the social impacts on Great Britain - Office for National Statistics

The impact of the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic on people, households and communities in Great Britain – indicators from the Opinions and Lifestyle Survey (OPN).

www.ons.gov.uk

(Table 5)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1321566876732952581

(screen grab in case the post disappears: )

 

[lissyflo]

I live in what is supposed to be a free country. I did not agree to this. We are not 'guilty' of having Covid until we prove our innocence - that position is a fundamental and far-reaching reversal of our hard-fought 'innocent until proven guilty' ethos in this country.

I’m not sure that the innocent until proven guilty logic applies: having Covid is not a crime, so no legal presumption of innocence exists. I’d liken it more to being involved in a nuclear reactor accident: I wouldn’t expect or want to be allowed to continue with my daily life if I was potentially pumping out radioactivity to those near me. I would expect to be tested and have my mobility curtailed until I was considered safe to be around. Same difference here, for me anyway. I’m fine with being tested as part of a whole town. The approach seems to be working well for China and I’m happy to compromise my civil liberties for the greater good in the short term. If people acted considerately then we wouldn’t need the Schedule 21 threat - people could just be trusted to self isolate at home. I wouldn’t enjoy being at a crowded bar now, even if I could be, knowing the effect it could have on others. My family haven’t been isolating like hermits, but we’ve all followed advice and sensibly compromised our activities and contacts.

The idea that only a small number of people die of corona is also misleading to me. We’ve been told that we’re weeks away from the NHS being swamped. What happens to those who can’t access a hospital bed because they’re full - accidents, heart attack victims? They die as an indirect result of corona effects. Why not do what we can to stop that becoming an issue? As a civilised society, the thought of turning ill people away from hospital or choosing who can have access to healthcare is abhorrent.

 

[dk168]

My next monthly hair appointment is scheduled for Saturday 07 November 2020 which has to be cancelled due to the second national lockdown.
However, they decided to open on their usual day off tomorrow, and are able to squeeze me in!

(Please note this is a lighthearted tongue firmly in my cheek post in the hope to inject some positivity/optimism in myself, and my normal "the glass is half full" self will return in no time, promise!)

DK

 

[Tekate]

Not in Europe - in another country - TEXAS - but we are in a mess here - a total morass of covid19 - deaths increasing. A total mess.

 

[Begonia]

2nd wave on the West coast of Canada. Masks in all public places, please stay home requests and no family gatherings above 6 people. We're very close to a second lock down. Uni's are zooming but all other schools are in, for now. Things took off after our Thanksgiving.

 

[Made in London]

My next monthly hair appointment is scheduled for Saturday 07 November 2020 which has to be cancelled due to the second national lockdown.
However, they decided to open on their usual day off tomorrow, and are able to squeeze me in!

(Please note this is a lighthearted tongue firmly in my cheek post in the hope to inject some positivity/optimism in myself, and my normal "the glass is half full" self will return in no time, promise!)

DK

Yay for light hearted optimism & a good haircut! I will miss my hair appointment on the 16th Nov at 6pm.

 

[lilmosun]

Yay for light hearted optimism & a good haircut! I will miss my hair appointment on the 16th Nov at 6pm.

I just squeezed in a dental cleaning because I am afraid things will get shut down again for the winter.

I've always had long hair but it was driving me crazy which prompted a trip to the salon to get it all cut off. I told my hair dresser that it wasn't like anyone was going to see me and it would grow back. It's odd that this became one of few priorities (I still haven't been to a grocery store) because I normally only get my hair cut once a year in normal times. Maybe it was the need to do something that felt like having control over some part of my life during these crazy times.

Sadly, I think lockdown measures are the only way as long as there are people who don't want to do their part to contain the virus. Yet thoughts of the US going into a second lockdown is causing me more angst than the first...perhaps because the first time I was occupied in adjusting and we were heading into warmer weather. Hopefully the results are a quick containment in Europe.