Columbian Emerald....thoughts pls

[rparker1998]

Please tell me if we got "taken". This is a 950 Platinum set Columbian Emerald, 1.45CT. The diamonds are .23Cts. I do not know if this has been heated/treated. And I do not want to advertise where I purchased it. We paid apx. 1800.00 for it. We can return it if necessary. I have not cleaned it nor altered the picture in any way besides a slight crop. THANK YOU in advance.

 

[jstarfireb]

Can''t comment on the price, but just wanted to say that the color is beautiful!

 

[Stone Hunter]

It looks like a natural stone to me. And the color looks like a Columbian Emerald. That''s the only color I really like in emeralds (please don''t tell the other PSers)

As for the price and the treatments I think that you''d have to take it to an appraiser. From what I understand you/I can''t tell if it''s been fracture filled or treated or oiled just by looking at it. And the treatments would alter the fair price of the stone.

It''s just my opinion but I really like it and would totally stare at your ring if I met you IRL!!

 

[SB621]

I don''t think anyone hear will be able to answer your questions because you don''t know how the emerald was treated- which is really one of the largest factors in determining the price. For any stone over $1,000 you should ALWAYS request a lab report or something to indicate how the stone was treated. The only way you are going to know if you found a deal or got ripped off is if you take it to an expert to have it looked at.

 

[chrono]

Rparker,
A good part of the price is related to treatment. As such, since you do not know the level of treatment, there is no way to be able to even assign a ballpark value.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 11/4/2009 9:29:46 PM
Author: Chrono
Rparker,
A good part of the price is related to treatment. As such, since you do not know the level of treatment, there is no way to be able to even assign a ballpark value.

Ditto.

 

[rparker1998]

Ok, from the vendor''s website:

All gemstones used by ************* are natural unless specified. Some gemstones may have gone through treatment or enhancement processes to improve quality or color. This is normally an accepted practice in the gemstone industry


To that end, there were no treatements specified and I have seen where this vendor does include fracture filled, etc in their rubys on their site. I know that doesn''t reallly tell us for sure, as they do say some treatments or enhancements are normal......




TO them...

 

[rparker1998]

THANK YOU everyone for your feedback so far.

 

[SB621]

Date: 11/4/2009 10:23:24 PM
Author: rparker1998
Ok, from the vendor''s website:

All gemstones used by ************* are natural unless specified. Some gemstones may have gone through treatment or enhancement processes to improve quality or color. This is normally an accepted practice in the gemstone industry


To that end, there were no treatements specified and I have seen where this vendor does include fracture filled, etc in their rubys on their site. I know that doesn''t reallly tell us for sure, as they do say some treatments or enhancements are normal......




TO them...

Well that really doesn''t mean anything. You can have a natural stone that is frature filled or BE treated or a natural stone that has been heated. The only thing that does say is that it is not a synthetic. personally if you love it keep it. If you are buying this just for the emerald however i would return it because you have no idea what has been done or not done to it. Once again you can''t assign a dollar amount to something that doesn''t give details.

 

[marcy]

It looks like a natural emerald to me and has great color. I don''t think the price is out of line for what you have there and it is really a beautiful ring.

 

[Mom2SF]

I love emeralds and considered one for my engagement ring so I spent a lot of time looking at Columbian emeralds. I am not an expert but I think this is an absolutely GORGEOUS ring!!!

 

[T L]

Fracture filling can have dramatic changes to a stone affecting it's appearance a great deal. I would not get an emerald without the knowing the extent of fracture filling. It can be lightly to heavily fracture filled, and even filled with colored resin with the same RI, which would probably have the greatest masking effect. Heavily treated fracture filled emeralds can make a stone that might be worth a $100 look like a stone worth 20 times more. I know that's not what you want to hear, but it's important to realize this about emeralds and the emerald market as far as treatment is concerned. After a while, some resins also dry up, and it may not look as good a few years from now if it's resin filled. I highly suspect it is. Oiling of emeralds is less frowned upon, and not as invasive a treatment as resin fracture filling.

If you do decide to keep it, do not ever steam clean or put it in an ultrasonic cleaner. Both can have disasterous results.

 

[SB621]

Date: 11/4/2009 11:31:58 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Fracture filling can have dramatic changes to a stone affecting it''s appearance a great deal. I would not get an emerald without the knowing the extent of fracture filling. It can be lightly to heavily fracture filled, and even filled with colored resin with the same RI, which would probably have the greatest masking effect. Heavily treated fracture filled emeralds can make a stone that might be worth a $100 look like a stone worth 20 times more. I know that''s not what you want to hear, but it''s important to realize this about emeralds and the emerald market as far as treatment is concerned. After a while, some resins also dry up, and it may not look as good a few years from now if it''s resin filled. I highly suspect it is. Oiling of emeralds is less frowned upon, and not as invasive a treatment as resin fracture filling.

If you do decide to keep it, do not ever steam clean or put it in an ultrasonic cleaner. Both can have disasterous results.

I never thought about that...good point TL!

 

[freefly]

I have no idea what it''s worth, but it''s absolutely beautiful!

 

[chrono]

RParker,
They are covering their asses with that statement. All it is saying is that the stone is not a synthetic. They are avoiding the issue of how possibly heavily treated it could be. Yes, it is normal for emeralds to be enhanced but the level of enhancement is also very important. I’m sure it is oiled. Fracture filled? Non coloured resin? Coloured resin? All these affect the value. We also don’t know how heavily filled it is. If the stone has major filling done, the issue of its durability is at question.

 

[oddoneout]

Beautiful stone and setting.

 

[arjunajane]

May I ask have you requested the vendor to clarify the level of treatment (or non)?
I''m with Chrono that that statement is basically just BS, sorry..

If you still have time in your return period and would like to keep it, do you have an independent appraiser in your area experienced in these matters?

It''s not what you''d like to hear I''m sure but they will really be the only person who can tell if you "got taken"..

All of that said, I''m not experienced in emeralds but the stone and setting are both really pretty!

 

[Stone Hunter]

Please get it appaised so we can all find out about that stone. It''s such a lovely color and I want it to be a good deal for you!!

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Wonderful stone and wonderful color. That is a fair price even if it is oiled, which most emeralds are unless explicitly documented that they are not. Treatment on emeralds is very common, accepted, and normal as long as it''s not misleading (like dyeing). You could check with an appraiser for sure on it, but I love the ring!

--Joshua

 

[LD]

Break down their statement like this:

Date: 11/4/2009 10:23:24 PM
Author: rparker1998
Ok, from the vendor''s website:

All gemstones used by ************* are natural unless specified. This just says they''re not synthetic (as previously stated).

Some gemstones may have gone through treatment or enhancement processes to improve quality or color. This is normally an accepted practice in the gemstone industry This is a very wide statement. For example, oiling of Emeralds is a long and accepted practice. Filling/dyeing/composition isn''t.

To that end, there were no treatements specified this is a VERY dangerous assumption. You should always assume high levels of treatment and enhancement until you know otherwise (and pay the appropriate price). and I have seen where this vendor does include fracture filled, etc in their rubys on their site. Fracture filled Rubies are NOT good quality. If they''re selling these, what does it tell you? It''s good that they''re disclosing it but ....... I know that doesn''t reallly tell us for sure, as they do say some treatments or enhancements are normal......

 

[mousey]

I completely LOVE this ring- its so beautiful!!!!! I saw a few Emeralds when shopping for my ering (before I decided to go the internet and sapp route). The ones I looked at were not as nice a color, not as big, set in yg, and were still more expensive (but this was in the burlington arcade in London). My newbe self reckons its a great deal (unless of course it has some terrible treatment that means it would break in half after a couple of years). Heres hoping it meets your expectations!

 

[rparker1998]

Update: I called the vendor and SPECIFICALLY asked if they treated this particular ring at all, with oiling, or resins, or heat. I was told absolutely not! It is an all natural stone.
I did take it to a couple of local jewlery B&M, not expecting much in the way of info/opinions and well, didn''t get much. The biggest thing I DID GET was to scope the ring under a gemscope. I also had it gently cleaned with a little bit of cleaner and a brush. Boy did it make a difference. It is so much clearer now, but I did see the inclusions withing the stone. a fine line through the stone near the table, but not on top of it. A very obvious with 10x magnification bit of carbon I think it was. And some small pinpoints.

Tomorrow on our journey, we are going to an upscale jewler in a ritzy part of town, and also a couple others. Basically, if it''s filled/resined we are sending it back. If it''s an good color/clarity (and it is pretty darn clean), and not synthetic - I think we will keep it.

MOre to come.....in....AS THE EMERALD TURNS.....

 

[rparker1998]

Thanks to all who have both admired and also offered opinions. The knowledge and feedback you all posses is amazing. I learn something new all the time.

 

[T L]

Date: 11/7/2009 12:29:07 AM
Author: rparker1998
Update: I called the vendor and SPECIFICALLY asked if they treated this particular ring at all, with oiling, or resins, or heat. I was told absolutely not! It is an all natural stone.
I did take it to a couple of local jewlery B&M, not expecting much in the way of info/opinions and well, didn't get much. The biggest thing I DID GET was to scope the ring under a gemscope. I also had it gently cleaned with a little bit of cleaner and a brush. Boy did it make a difference. It is so much clearer now, but I did see the inclusions withing the stone. a fine line through the stone near the table, but not on top of it. A very obvious with 10x magnification bit of carbon I think it was. And some small pinpoints.

Tomorrow on our journey, we are going to an upscale jewler in a ritzy part of town, and also a couple others. Basically, if it's filled/resined we are sending it back. If it's an good color/clarity (and it is pretty darn clean), and not synthetic - I think we will keep it.

MOre to come.....in....AS THE EMERALD TURNS.....

Did the vendor confuse the fact that it's treated with the fact that it's natural? It can still be natural and treated. I am glad that you are getting it checked out. You would be surprised at how resin can make an emerald look clean. If it was heavily resin fracture filled, it would be very cloudy prior to treatment, even your stone. Cleanliness is nothing when it comes to these types of treatments.

 

[LD]

Date: 11/7/2009 12:29:07 AM
Author: rparker1998
Update: I called the vendor and SPECIFICALLY asked if they treated this particular ring at all, with oiling, or resins, or heat. I was told absolutely not! It is an all natural stone.
I did take it to a couple of local jewlery B&M, not expecting much in the way of info/opinions and well, didn't get much. The biggest thing I DID GET was to scope the ring under a gemscope. I also had it gently cleaned with a little bit of cleaner and a brush. Boy did it make a difference. It is so much clearer now, but I did see the inclusions withing the stone. a fine line through the stone near the table, but not on top of it. A very obvious with 10x magnification bit of carbon I think it was. And some small pinpoints.

Tomorrow on our journey, we are going to an upscale jewler in a ritzy part of town, and also a couple others. Basically, if it's filled/resined we are sending it back. If it's an good color/clarity (and it is pretty darn clean), and not synthetic - I think we will keep it.

MOre to come.....in....AS THE EMERALD TURNS.....

Mmmmmm. This is slightly worrying. They are implying that this is a natural Emerald without ANY treatments? For the money you paid, I would doubt it very very much. I don't know the exact percentage but I would hazard a guess that over 90% of Emeralds are treated in some way. I don't know who you spoke with at the Vendors but this sounds like the sort of comment that an inexperienced sales person would make (if they used the wording you have here).

Just one thing for you to be aware of ........... how experienced is this Vendor with coloured gemstones? The reason I ask is because they've stated that the Emerald is "natural" but an oiled / heated Emerald would still be considered natural.

Please be aware that jewellers may not be able to tell what treatment has been applied to your Emerald. You should really take this to an experienced coloured gemstone appraiser.

 

[T L]

Date: 11/7/2009 10:34:11 AM
Author: LovingDiamonds

Mmmmmm. This is slightly worrying. They are implying that this is a natural Emerald without ANY treatments? For the money you paid, I would doubt it very very much. I don't know the exact percentage but I would hazard a guess that over 90% of Emeralds are treated in some way. I don't know who you spoke with at the Vendors but this sounds like the sort of comment that an inexperienced sales person would make (if they used the wording you have here).

Just one thing for you to be aware of ........... how experienced is this Vendor with coloured gemstones? The reason I ask is because they've stated that the Emerald is 'natural' but an oiled / heated Emerald would still be considered natural.

Please be aware that jewellers may not be able to tell what treatment has been applied to your Emerald. You should really take this to an experienced coloured gemstone appraiser.

Ditto.

Here's a very good article on fracture filling of emeralds. Look at the photo and see how much the inclusions disappeared. I've seen even more dramatic results in books.

http://jcrs.com/JCRS_for_consumers/jewelry_information/colored_gems/emerald.htm

 

[chrono]

I with LD and TL. It is extremely rare to get a 100% untreated emerald, and for so little $ too. I''m concerned that the salesperson is confused of the difference between natural and untreated. Again, it takes an experienced person to be able to detect the type of resin used and etc.

 

[LD]

One of my biggest concerns is how clean you say the stone is. Clean Emeralds are exceptionally rare and command very very very high prices. So you''ve either got deal of the decade OR your stone isn''t as sold/been subject to treatment. I think you''ll see why we''re concerned when you read this:

http://www.preciousgemstones.com/gfwin97one.html
http://www.colored-stone.com/stories/jan09/groom-on-disclosure.cfm
http://www.capetowndiamond.com/whatsnew/article1.html

FYI the best way of detecting fracture filling is with a Raman Spectograph (labs use these). However, some fillings will fluoresce (not always) so looking at your stone under UV lighting might help in some cases - filling can fluoresce white or yellow. Also a chelsea filter might detect fillings. At the end of the day, detecting fillers and/or treatments is best left to an expert.

 

[rparker1998]

More...as the Emerald Turns......


We took the ring to a very well known jewler here in town who has a GIA diploma and is a "rockhound". Upon his inspection and a rescoping of the ring we have observed/learned the following:

The scoping:

There was a rainbow pattern in the middle of the stone appearing to radiate from the bottom up, the Jewler's associate who fully admited he is not nearly as knowledgeable, suggested it was from oiling from the bottom of the stone. OK no big deal, oiling I can accept, and you don't see the rainbow unless it's scoped.

We also noticed a black spot in the emerald, that was identified as a some sort of stone, ....i don't recall the exact verbiage.

We also identified the inclusions/feathers/cracks (not sure of the proper term when referring to colored stones vs emeralds - are they the same?).

Upon inspection by the said "rockhound"

They stated that the emerald does appear to be synthetic, that it is a true emerald, grown in a labratory. The inclusions are true inclusions. They did not detect any resin filling, but could not be 100% certain as they did not have a spectrograph on site, nor anyone at that location who was trained to use one. They did notate that it does flourceses (spelling) Red, and that it could be from the oiling. THey also stated that at the very least, we got a good price for the mounting alone, that it is valued at 2500.00. They did suggest that the flouresense could be from heating as well.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SO, now the question is: Do we keep the stone knowing it has the same chemical composition as an emerald and is indeed a true emerald, and that it just did not come from the ground and knowing that we at least got our $$ worth from the setting alone, or do we return it based on the fact that the vendor has obviously lied. We are certainly not purchasing anything further from this vendor.


I do want to take it to one more jeweler to have it inspected, but won't have the ring back into my possession until late Monday the 9th and the soonest I'd be able to get to that jeweler would be Tuesday and I am not sure that he would be there, I'd have to coordinate it. so at that point we are looking at the 10th. I have 14 days from 10/31 to return this item.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I do love the ring, I do find myself staring at it and find it extremely beautiful. I love it's flashes of light green within the darker green. It is a little more "teal" in reallife than the photo suggests. I don't mind the oiling, I don't mind the fact that it is even heated, as I've accepted that most colored stones are.....

Are there any "natural emerald" sites out there? IE Natural Sapphire Company......

 

[arjunajane]

well, I''m sorry but I can''t say I''m surprised.
Whilst you were at it, did you have the side diamonds checked, and the plat? - I would perhaps be concerned they could be fracture filled too, considering the vendor has already lied about the emerald.

$2500 seems a lil excessive estimate for that setting imho.

Assuming the diamonds are all natural, no treatments, and are of F-G VS standard, I would say that yes you paid retail for the diamonds and plat.
I have no idea what a lab grown emerald is worth so am not going to make a guess..

If it were me, I would return it on principal - I don''t like rewarding dishonest vendors with thousands of my $.