Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...please

[chrono]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Alas for me, I find even ideal cut diamonds boring.

The other key consideration is how much or little the stone shifts. The lesser the shift, the better the quality, unless the shift is an excellent colour as well.

 

[ForteKitty]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Alas for me, I find even ideal cut diamonds boring.

Agreed. I never wear my MRBs because old cuts are more interesting to me now. I'm currently on the hunt for a giant old cushion. I have a 1.6ct and it's gorgeous but just too small compared to my oec.


LD, I saw your post before you deleted it. I've often seen posters showing off their gems in excitement, not asking for opinions, and getting slammed. If someone asks for opinions, then it's totally different.

 

[pregcurious]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

I found you on Etsy, stonebender.

 

[FrekeChild]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Alas for me, I find even ideal cut diamonds boring.

Agreed. I never wear my MRBs because old cuts are more interesting to me now. I'm currently on the hunt for a giant old cushion. I have a 1.6ct and it's gorgeous but just too small compared to my oec.


LD, I saw your post before you deleted it. I've often seen posters showing off their gems in excitement, not asking for opinions, and getting slammed. If someone asks for opinions, then it's totally different.

Ditto. I've been thinking that CS has become so popular as of late, that there should be an offshoot of "Show Me The Colored Stone Bling" and then a discussion board for Colored Stones, like Rocky Talky, but I'm guessing that would not work. But it would certainly cut down on hurt feelings!

 

[pregcurious]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

LD, I saw your post before you deleted it. I've often seen posters showing off their gems in excitement, not asking for opinions, and getting slammed. If someone asks for opinions, then it's totally different.

I've seen this happen, and have felt like it's happened to me, but I think that's part of posting on an open forum. I guess it makes some people feel good to pick apart other people's purchases. It's like being with one's mother-in-law. She critiques what you do, even though you never asked. I accept it as part of PS, and I've learned from it.

 

[pregcurious]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

I think people can choose to post their CSs in Rocky Talky because there seems to be an unwritten code not to criticize in that forum since people already own those pieces. I've posted a necklace over there. The down side is that CS people often don't go there.

 

[LD]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

I deleted my post because this subject has come up time and time again and I didn't think it was worth going there again. Clearly I wasn't quick enough with the deletion key!

I absolutely agree that it would be nice to see a "Show me your coloured stone bling" forum where, if people don't want an opinion, then they can post photos there. That leaves the coloured stone forum as a learning place (very similar actually to Rocky Talky). If you look at Rocky Talky posters there are far more brutal with opinions (or maybe not depending on your viewpoint).

I don't do the "ooooooh" and "aaaaaah" thing if I don't mean it and I prefer not to say anything especially if the person is over the moon with their purchase. I appreciate that this is less touchy feelie than some people like.

My other concern is that people say "you can't judge stones from a photo" but we're an internet forum! What are we supposed to do? Have everything shipped to us individually? One of the questions I ask most (if it's a poster's photo and they're asking for comments) is "is that a true reflection of what you see?" We can't do that with vendor's photos. We only have those to go on and not a set of eyes. There is NOTHING ELSE we can use.

Anyway, as I said, I would love to see a separate forum for the "oooooohs" and "aaaaaaahs" and no opinions but I suspect that the Mods would simply say that's what Show Me the Bling is for. Maybe if we had a sticky explaining where to post it might help? I don't know!

 

[ChrisA222]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Wow I missed a lot when I was off of PS...

I have learned a lot here. There has been a lot of good info exchanged, I appreciate this so much more than....never mind.

Preg. that Spinel that you posted looked very Flame to me...the one that you were thinking about buying but didnt..I really like it...I dont mind orange. It is obviously orange-red to me, but It is nice to be able to see the orange and not over pay for it.

TL, that looks like a pink stone to me (that Ruby you posted) much more pink than it does red.

Ld, you said (I think) that someone either likes orange in your red or pink/purple. For me...I think I like both (not in the same stone!). I think I would be happy with either--even if I was limited to one Red stone. I dont think it would really matter so much to me...so long as it was as close to red as I could afford. I love the purplish red (Like my Rubellite) as well as the orange red (like, lets say NKOTBs flame Spinel). I guess for me, as long as the saturation was right (no brown, and clearly red and not clearly pink) I'd be fine. Cut is extremely important to me, too. Tone, we didnt talk about that either.

I saw a lot of nice Red Spinels in this thread, too...a lot of nice ones. I can't wait for mine to arrive.

Chrono, thanks for the link to the AGL report breakdown. that is great to have access to...it makes perfect sense to me now.

 

[ChrisA222]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

FK, what the heck are you doing when you wear your rings? Wow...nicks and such in your Sapphires and other hard stones? Are you gardening? washing dishes with them on?? Yikes!! Then agian, I take my ring off when I get home, and my job is retail management so Im not exactly constructing buildings or operating forklifts.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

There are two pinned threads at the top of the CS page. One is for vendor and buyer photos of gems; and the other is for eye candy. Aren't these the equivalent of Show Me the Bling threads?

I was under the impression that if someone wanted to show off their stones/jewelry, they posted there, or to the "Show me..." threads floating around. I too was under the impression that here we're "among friends" in a manner of speaking and can have more objective or well-rounded discussions than limiting it would do. This is important, as we seem to continue to be a little schizophrenic in this regard. I don't ever go to RT so I can't compare, but perhaps someone can tell us how they do it and provide honesty, both good and bad, without inflicting damage.

The ultimate question is what we want this forum to be and is it meant for us to learn from one another? Should we be clear up front in our expectations like "Please, positive comments only" so we know? The minute I no longer get feedback from the experts (and they know who they are), then I think I'll lose interest in the forum.

 

[ForteKitty]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

FK, what the heck are you doing when you wear your rings? Wow...nicks and such in your Sapphires and other hard stones? Are you gardening? washing dishes with them on?? Yikes!! Then agian, I take my ring off when I get home, and my job is retail management so Im not exactly constructing buildings or operating forklifts.

I work in an office setting and never wear any jewelry at home. My saphire and Burmese ruby were both chipped when I was at work, no idea where but I'm guessing my desk drawers? I chipped my spinel just last month on my file cabinet. My garnet PENDANT was chipped on a doorframe... I walked into it. My tourmalines were chipped on tables, doors, windows, counter... Whatever, I'm over it. They're gems, meant to be worn and destroyed apparently! That's part of my reason for not wanting to set my nicer stuff, since they're bigger and probably more prone to damage. So that's why I've only set my baby gems.

 

[ForteKitty]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

LD- The oohing and ahhing is so fake, so I appreciate when people don't do that to every thread.

I was referring to threads where people are showing off their gems and their personal photos after the purchases, not vendor photos pre-purchase. A poster may write, "it looks a lot less purple in person, and I can see a big difference, BUT my picture shows more purple than I see in real life", and get responses like "I see a lot of purple in that garnet, you can do better." The OP is clearly frustrated that they can't photograph the gem properly, yet everybody focuses only on the picture and pays no attention to the OP's statement that there is indeed a color difference. After a while, this person just gives up because their mind is all messed up and now they think they see orange in that stone. And all they wanted to do was show off their new gem.

It hasn't happened to me, but I've read so many threads like that I stopped visiting CS. Your deleted post mentioned that comments like mine have kept the old-timers who truly know about CS away. Well, sorry if you guys feel that way. I'm mostly just reading CS these days and not posting, but some of the stuff I've read from old-timers made me think, "wow, did this person really just write that?"

Eta: A separate forum for showing off CS seems like overkill. I don't see why it can't go in SMTB but people seem to think CSers don't visit there? Is that true? All I do nowadays is "view new posts" so I see posts from every subforum and I usually only skim the first page and click open the threads that look interesting.

 

[Justin_Cutter]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Alas for me, I find even ideal cut diamonds boring.

The other key consideration is how much or little the stone shifts. The lesser the shift, the better the quality, unless the shift is an excellent colour as well.

This! Especially regarding red stones in my experience. So many times they just turn reddish brown indoors. At least to my eye.

I personally love honest and bold opinions. That is how I learned the most on this forum! There is a difference between honest and mean though.
~Justin

 

[FrekeChild]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Agreed with FK.

And yes, CSers seem to stay over here, rarely wandering over to SMTB. I think it cod be overkill too, but CS seems like its bumpin' nowadays, especially with people searching for blue sapphires! The "OMG LOOKIE!!!" Threads seem to kind of get lost amongst the "looking for a sapphire for an ering" threads.

The eyecandy thread is nice and everything, but discussion and compliments are really supposed to be kept to a minimum in that thread, I think. Plus, you have to go through a ton of posts to find pictures with a ton of commentary, and its super hard to find pictures of what you want in there. Easier to do a google search, honestly, since even PS's internal search function BLOWS now. I spent hours looking for a wedding dress pictures the other day, even though I knew who the poster was! You know how I found it? Google. Not even the google search on PS, just google. That's a whole other topic though!

 

[kgizo]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

I don't think people are on this forum for validation. At least I hope they aren't. Sometimes it feels like its a case of not what you say, but how you say it. LD 's question "is that a true reflection of what you see" is helpful because it opens up dialogue about hue, saturation, modifiers, etc. My eye isn't very good and these discussions show me what to look for. However there have been threads where someone posts their nonreturnable "pink" stone, someone responds with "that is so brown or what a huge window", the poster denies it and then the thread devolves into a "yes it is / no it is not" type of thread. I'm here to learn. I have a hubby for exhaustive "yes it is / no it is not" debates.

 

[chrono]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

I hate to post and run but I must for family matters. Here's a different perspective. Even though non returnable, is it bad form to advise that in the future to look out for bad windowing? Is it wrong to want to look out for another coloured stoner? A window is not subjective; it either has one or it has none.

 

[slksapphire]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

chris,

back to your original question. as some of you know i have been trying to learn more about red gems, specifically ruby and spinel. i've found that red is harder to evaluate on a screen than blue (though that is often hard, too).

one of the more objective (and consistent ways) to evaluate red is to use agl's prestige reports since they specifically tell you how much of each color is present and most stones have been seen by chris smith. as for the vendor photos, they are all over place. varying degrees of saturation don't help either. but here are some examples:

agl 80 red, color 2.5
http://www.preciousgemstones.com/207burufs.html

agl 80 red, color 2
http://www.preciousgemstones.com/212buspfs.html (looks like a fair price for a burma spinel; don't know if it's still available)

agl 70 red, color 2.5
http://www.preciousgemstones.com/355buspfs.html

agl 70 red, color 2.5
http://www.preciousgemstones.com/214burufs.html

agl 70 red, color 2.5
http://www.preciousgemstones.com/146burufs.html (yellow background much?)

agl 65 red, color 4
http://www.preciousgemstones.com/141mongrufs.html (small variations in color make a huge difference in price)

 

[LD]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

FK - I don't think I've ever said to anybody "you can do better" UNLESS they've specifically said "do you think I can do better". If I have, I'd like it pointed out because that's not right of me.

In terms of photos, there are some posters who post glamorised photos to get the "ooooohs" and the "aaaaaahs" and they are very transparent. I admit I get fed up with that because it's disingenuous AND it gives false impressions to those who have little experience of coloured gemstones. Some posters even use their photos and say they are the "ideal" and that's what people should look for. I think that's awful but hey ho, each to their own.

If you want to look at what else is going on in this forum then look at some of the dishonesty of some posters. They continually flout PS rules and should really declare trade status but they don't because that would hinder what they can say. They know who they are. So how honest is that?

Some even love drama and will post just to inflame. I'm fed up of seeing certain people writing things for exactly that purpose. Certain people go to vendors when there's a comment on one of their stones and says "I don't think this way, but you need to know what's being said ..........."! At the end of the day this is a consumer forum for consumers to try to help them get the best deal (if that's what they want).

Anyway, I've said my piece and this sort of discussion always gets out of hand. I had tried to avoid it by deleting my previous post but clearly that hasn't worked! I apologise FK if I've said anything about any of your stones that you haven't liked.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

I hate to post and run but I must for family matters. Here's a different perspective. Even though non returnable, is it bad form to advise that in the future to look out for bad windowing? Is it wrong to want to look out for another coloured stoner? A window is not subjective; it either has one or it has none.

Great question, Chrono. Again, I think the answer depends on the forum's purpose - if it is to help others learn, then yes, making such observations helps the next one along in the cue. Perhaps it is in the way the OP posts. A while ago, there was someone who shall remain nameless who was posting God awful stones and stating that they were incredibly valuable because they had appraisals done and the appraisals valued them at x tens of thousands of dollars. These were low saturation, often included, highly windowed stones. The OP was touting them like they were excellent examples. You bet there were some hard discussions about those stones, and I was impressed with how many of the old timers here, who know a good deal about gemstones, jumped in honestly to correct the OP. Why? Because they did not want newcomers to make the same mistakes. So again, it depends on our mission.

 

[FrekeChild]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

MB, I could never figure out how to react to him because they were always such pitiful examples of the stones...and the outlandish appraisals...oh my!!!

It was important for newbies to learn from those posts that they weren't stellar examples of stones, but it was hard for the OP to hear that. It's a very fine line...

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

FK - I don't think I've ever said to anybody "you can do better" UNLESS they've specifically said "do you think I can do better". If I have, I'd like it pointed out because that's not right of me.

In terms of photos, there are some posters who post glamorised photos to get the "ooooohs" and the "aaaaaahs" and they are very transparent. I admit I get fed up with that because it's disingenuous AND it gives false impressions to those who have little experience of coloured gemstones. Some posters even use their photos and say they are the "ideal" and that's what people should look for. I think that's awful but hey ho, each to their own.

LD, I agree with what you've said, particularly the above quotes.

FK: I don't believe that I have ever said "you can do better" to anyone either - unless an OP specifically asked. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

MB, I could never figure out how to react to him because they were always such pitiful examples of the stones...and the outlandish appraisals...oh my!!!

It was important for newbies to learn from those posts that they weren't stellar examples of stones, but it was hard for the OP to hear that. It's a very fine line...

I know, and I guess that's exactly my point. Granted, there has not been since such an egregious example, but still what is to be done in those circumstances? I believe that is Chrono's point, or if it isn't, then its mine!

 

[LD]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

MB, I could never figure out how to react to him because they were always such pitiful examples of the stones...and the outlandish appraisals...oh my!!!

It was important for newbies to learn from those posts that they weren't stellar examples of stones, but it was hard for the OP to hear that. It's a very fine line...

You know what Freke? Everybody really tried to be subtle with him. I honestly did. I really really really tried to help. He just kept saying everybody was wrong but him. It ended up that I was absolutely honest with him in the hope that maybe he would stop buying truly dreadful stones and then being conned by his appraiser. He still didn't get it but at least if anybody finds those threads and looks back, they (hopefully) won't think his "world class" examples are anything than the junk they were. If you recall, he then came back aided by another poster who's been banned (they contacted each other on Facebook) and decided to try to discredit me. There comes a point when I, and others I know, say why should we bother? It's easier to walk away and just let people believe what they want!

 

[ForteKitty]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

FK - I don't think I've ever said to anybody "you can do better" UNLESS they've specifically said "do you think I can do better". If I have, I'd like it pointed out because that's not right of me.

In terms of photos, there are some posters who post glamorised photos to get the "ooooohs" and the "aaaaaahs" and they are very transparent. I admit I get fed up with that because it's disingenuous AND it gives false impressions to those who have little experience of coloured gemstones. Some posters even use their photos and say they are the "ideal" and that's what people should look for. I think that's awful but hey ho, each to their own.

If you want to look at what else is going on in this forum then look at some of the dishonesty of some posters. They continually flout PS rules and should really declare trade status but they don't because that would hinder what they can say. They know who they are. So how honest is that?

Some even love drama and will post just to inflame. I'm fed up of seeing certain people writing things for exactly that purpose. Certain people go to vendors when there's a comment on one of their stones and says "I don't think this way, but you need to know what's being said ..........."! At the end of the day this is a consumer forum for consumers to try to help them get the best deal (if that's what they want).

Anyway, I've said my piece and this sort of discussion always gets out of hand. I had tried to avoid it by deleting my previous post but clearly that hasn't worked! I apologise FK if I've said anything about any of your stones that you haven't liked.

Honestly I don't remember who said what, because I just read the posts most of the time and don't glance over to see who's actually posting. Apparently I also missed all the glamorized picture drama in CS. Gotta go look thru the forum...

You haven't offended me, as far as I can remember, probably because I've been too lazy to post pics of my crappy gems. I've got a pretty good grasp on colored stones and can see modifiers, tone, and saturation well, so I completely understand that most of the warnings are done with good intentions.

 

[pregcurious]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

agl 80 red, color 2
http://www.preciousgemstones.com/212buspfs.html (looks like a fair price for a burma spinel; don't know if it's still available)

Wow. I knew that red spinels had gone up, but I didn't know they had gone up that much. I looked back in 2008-2009 everywhere, from Pala to all the sites we have posted, and it was much lower then.

Chris, yes, that stone I posted is what I would call a top "flame" spinel. As flame spinels go, I don't think its gets any better. I think it's a different creature from what I think of as a red spinel.

 

[ChrisA222]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

FK - I don't think I've ever said to anybody "you can do better" UNLESS they've specifically said "do you think I can do better". If I have, I'd like it pointed out because that's not right of me.

In terms of photos, there are some posters who post glamorised photos to get the "ooooohs" and the "aaaaaahs" and they are very transparent. I admit I get fed up with that because it's disingenuous AND it gives false impressions to those who have little experience of coloured gemstones. Some posters even use their photos and say they are the "ideal" and that's what people should look for. I think that's awful but hey ho, each to their own.

If you want to look at what else is going on in this forum then look at some of the dishonesty of some posters. They continually flout PS rules and should really declare trade status but they don't because that would hinder what they can say. They know who they are. So how honest is that?

Some even love drama and will post just to inflame. I'm fed up of seeing certain people writing things for exactly that purpose. Certain people go to vendors when there's a comment on one of their stones and says "I don't think this way, but you need to know what's being said ..........."! At the end of the day this is a consumer forum for consumers to try to help them get the best deal (if that's what they want).

Anyway, I've said my piece and this sort of discussion always gets out of hand. I had tried to avoid it by deleting my previous post but clearly that hasn't worked! I apologise FK if I've said anything about any of your stones that you haven't liked.

I definately missed this post, or I would have commented on it last time...

As far as posting "glamorised photos to get oohs and ahhs"...frankly, if you are talking about posting vendor pics of recent aquisitions (mine or others) I really don't see why this is a problem. For me, it is VERY hard to take good pictures (as Ive said over and over)...so if a vendor is willing to take the time and effort to take professional-quality photos, why the heck wouldn't we post them. They show the gem at its best, in ideal lighting, etc. The few times that I have posted my own pics, I am usually picked apart for using the wrong settings for exposure, saturation, etc. So why wouldn't I post the vendor pics. They are usually a heck of a lot more accurate than my pics. The vendors have nice camera equipment. I have a lousy camera phone (but I am trying). I do not consider this disingenuous....if I make a purchase of a gem and want to share it with the group, Iam going to use the best picture I can. Its simple, really.


Second, I am guilty of making a vendor aware of something that was said about them. I dont see anything wrong with that, either, and I will continue to do it. Sorry if anyone feels that is a problem. I am on PS a lot more often than some vendors, some of which I consider friends or aquaintences. If you saw something mentioned about a friend or aquaintence, or something that was sold or made by them, wouldn't you want them to at least see whats being said?

 

[slksapphire]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

pregcurious,

i think a spinel with red 80, color rating of 2, 75 tone and very good/good cut is pretty rare. i bet just a slight tweak in the color would bring the price down considerably.

 

[pregcurious]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Good point silksapphire. It's also very deep, which mean means it faces up pretty small. Still, if I had the money...

BTW, your sapphire has my holy grail blue color.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Good point silksapphire. It's also very deep, which mean means it faces up pretty small. Still, if I had the money...

BTW, your sapphire has my holy grail blue color.

I think SS's sapphire is the holy grail for many! Now we'll have to start a thread on blue, huh?

 

[jstarfireb]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

A while ago, there was someone who shall remain nameless who was posting God awful stones and stating that they were incredibly valuable because they had appraisals done and the appraisals valued them at x tens of thousands of dollars. These were low saturation, often included, highly windowed stones. The OP was touting them like they were excellent examples. You bet there were some hard discussions about those stones, and I was impressed with how many of the old timers here, who know a good deal about gemstones, jumped in honestly to correct the OP. Why? Because they did not want newcomers to make the same mistakes. So again, it depends on our mission.

Was this the guy with all of the multi-stone pendants? Those were definitely not good!