choosing a blue sapphire for all lighting conditions

[Cind11]

Date: 10/25/2009 1:44:44 PM
Author: sarap333
Thanks, Cind11 -- I just looked at your thread about your sapphire. Yes, that''s my favorite sapphire color. Deep, rich, with a lighter blue glow from within.

I did not find your thread with photos of it set in the JM setting, but I''ll look again.

Also, I did not know that Richard cut flat facet stones too -- the cut on your sapphire is incredible. (Wink, I''ll be in touch about this for sure!)

One other thing, I''m so happy to match the screen names with the photos of all the beautiful pieces I''ve drooled over on SMTR.

Cind, your starfish pendant on the SMTR thread is to die for, and I also want you to know that your Maytal Hannah setting was one of the inspiration pieces for my purple sapphire halo anniversary ring from Wink!

Oddly, I just looked for my thread about my finished ring and could not find it either! Richard flat faceted my stone for me per my request. I think he much prefers concave cuts!

Thanks for the compliments on my starfish pendant and my Maytal Hannah ring. I had commented how wonderful I thought your anniversary ring was going to be in your CAD thread, but did you ever post pictures of the finished ring? I would love to see it.

 

[Lula]

Thanks, Wink, for the explanation. This colored gem stuff is much more complex than buying a diamond!

And, thanks, Cind, for your compliments on my anniversary ring -- I'm expecting it any day now from Wink and of course I will post lots of pics in SMTR. It was a many-months-in-the-making project (which is why I need a new jewelry project - ah, the PS addiction!). I also appreciated your comments about heat treating and silk. I do not know a lot about the gemstone treatments.

 

[ma re]

Arj, I realize now what I typed, while I meant something else. True, generally changers are more expensive, but in the high-end market "typical" stones sell for more because they''re classics and their image is closer to the general public''s perception of sapphire.

Sarap333, two different people can look at the exact same color and see it differently simply because their eyes don''t share the same sensitivity to either some colors or levels of light (or for some copletely different reason). So it''s important to know exactly what you want, decide on a specific shade and refuse to be persuaded into buying something other than what you want.

 

[Stone Hunter]

GREAT thread. THANK YOU to all of you who posted photos, it''s very helpful.

OP -- I understand why you were unhappy with your sapphire and hope that you find one that makes you happy!!

 

[Sagebrush]

Sarap,


A bit of clarification. "Bleeding" refers not to a loss of brilliance, but to a change of hue. All sapphire will change a little when the light is shifted from 3200k (yellow) to 5500-6000k (white) which is approximately what happens when you go from incandescent to noon daylight.

As Wink points out, beam light, spots and floods, shoot more light at a stone and thus get more back than diffused light such as that emitted from a fluorescent tube.


Cut stones are creatures of the light. A stone will darken in less light, brighten in more. Kashmir stones have little chromium. That is what produces the red, read purplish hue when you shift from daylight to incandescent. Chromium is what makes ruby red and there tends to be a little in Ceylon and Madagascar stones. Less in Burma.

In the end, do you like the shift? A little purple gives the blue a velvety look that a lot of people like. Your stone appears to be a color shift. That''s fine though it should not command the price of a fine blue that holds its color in all lighting conditions.

 

[cushioncutnut]

I didn''t read all of this thread...but I am glad that I read what I did concerning "bleeding" color. I was having serious doubts about my sapphire after seeing some of these gorgeous sapphires on here. My sapphire can explode with color in certain daylight conditions but can look rather dull indoors/low lighting. I guess that is why they call these "daylight" stones.... It now makes more sense to me that they can "bleed" color.....

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 10/26/2009 11:16:35 AM
Author: Richard W. Wise
Sarap,

(snipped)


In the end, do you like the shift? A little purple gives the blue a velvety look that a lot of people like. Your stone appears to be a color shift. That''s fine though it should not command the price of a fine blue that holds its color in all lighting conditions.

Thanks Richard for explaining clearly what I was attempting to earlier

Just to be clear and for education''s sake, can you please clarify which stone you mean when you refer to "your stone" above?
As SaraP hasn''t appeared to post a sapphire yet in this thread - I was wondering if there was one I was unaware of, so I could see which you were referring to as a colour shifter?

Thanks!

 

[Lula]

Thank you, ma re, StoneHunter, CCN, Richard, and Arjunajane,
I must say the CS forum is great!

Richard, this comment of yours above,"Cut stones are creatures of the light" will guide me in the purchase of my new sapphire. I have learned so much from the posts here. I will "test" any contenders in all lighting conditions -- though now I will not expect them to look the same in all lights.

I also need to keep "brilliance" separate from "hue" in my mind, too. But I do wonder if the flat, long facets of the emerald cut of my former sapphire did contribute to it looking so dull at night.

In retrospect, I think my former sapphire was just too dark for my taste. I love the deeper tones in the jewelery stores and in photos, but I think I will also take a look at some of the lighter colors and pay close attention to how they change under different lighting conditions.

Wow. Buying a diamonds is way easier than buying a colored stone. I just can't believe how little I knew when I bought my first sapphire!

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 10/26/2009 7:19:28 PM
Author: sarap333
Thank you, ma re, StoneHunter, CCN, Richard, and Arjunajane,
I must say the CS forum is great!

Richard, this comment of yours above,''Cut stones are creatures of the light'' will guide me in the purchase of my new sapphire. I have learned so much from the posts here. I will ''test'' any contenders in all lighting conditions -- though now I will not expect them to look the same in all lights.

I also need to keep ''brilliance'' separate from ''hue'' in my mind, too. But I do wonder if the flat, long facets of the emerald cut of my former sapphire did contribute to it looking so dull at night.

In retrospect, I think my former sapphire was just too dark for my taste. I love the deeper tones in the jewelery stores and in photos, but I think I will also take a look at some of the lighter colors and pay close attention to how they change under different lighting conditions.

Wow. Buying a diamonds is way easier than buying a colored stone. I just can''t believe how little I knew when I bought my first sapphire!

LOL! Sara,

I have been doing this for more than half my life, I started in my early twenties, and I am in my sixties now. I still know nothing compared to the Richard Wises of the world. I am sure that there are those that Richard looks up to also. It is an incredibly complex business with a dozen lifetimes of knowledge required in many different fields, I wonder if any one knows enough to be called an expert in all of the available niches in this complex industry.

You are making a pilgrimage here, it will never truly be over and it will always be one more step to reach the next crest so that you can see the farther crests one after another in the progress of your journey...

 

[Sagebrush]

Just another quick point on "bleeding"

Its a good evocative word. What happens when a person looses blood? He becomes pale and his complexion washes out. This is precisely the sort of affect that the term is meant to convey.

The blue washes out, in effect looses saturation, becomes paler and less desirable. A shift from purplish blue to pure blue is not truly bleeding unless the above is true.

 

[Lula]

Thanks, Richard. A good analogy. However, what about the situation I saw, where my deep blue sapphire, which was royal blue and lively in daylight, would get much darker in color (not paler) and become dull at night. Is that still considered "bleeding"?

 

[DianaBanana]

Sarah...you might find this thread helpful. Sapphires are called "day stones" for a reason, the PS community really helped me understand that. Jeff White called them moody stones, also a good descriptor!

In the end, I realized that I''d rather have a sapphire that was absolutely magical during the day than one that looked pretty good in all lighting situations IYKWIM.

Good luck with your search, I love me some good blueberries!!

 

[arjunajane]

This thread and the one Diana linked to have been quite helpful in sapphire education, imho.
(I''m sure there are others too).
It would be good if they could be integrated somehow for future readers/searchers...

 

[Lula]

Date: 10/27/2009 11:48:05 AM
Author: arjunajane
This thread and the one Diana linked to have been quite helpful in sapphire education, imho.

(I''m sure there are others too).

It would be good if they could be integrated somehow for future readers/searchers...

Ditto arjunajane. The thread Diana linked to was eerily similar to my thread! And, btw, Diana, your stone is gorgeous. I would have been happy if my stone would have been that lively across lighting conditions.

Here''s what I''ve learned:
The tone of my stone was likely too dark.
The saturation of my stone was not high enough.
The cut was not good.

I learned this by spending most of the weekend looking at the sapphire threads on PS (though I missed Diana''s thread somehow) and comparing size, color, setting style, etc. Bottom line -- there''s not a bad sapphire on here! I am in good hands for the selection of my new stone!

Also, I did dig up my wedding day CD (from the very, very early days of digital photography) and there''s one photograph of my gnarly hand holding my bouquet where you can see my sapphire. It looks very dark to me now -- the ring is in shadow, but even so, it was a sunny day outdoors in the middle of the day! In direct sunlight without shadow it would be a shade or two lighter, but still, comparing this photo and my memory to what I see on PS, the stone just sucked. And the sad thing is, it was so much better than what I saw other women in my city wearing (the super dark, dull, commercial grade stones). At least mine had some blue in it!!

I''ll see if this picture works -- I had to size it down quite a bit.

 

[AustenNut]

I agree that this thread has been incredibly helpful, as was the one that linked to DianaBanana''s thread.

Does this happen with most darker colored stones of all varieties (like tourmaline, spinel, garnet, etc)? Or is the phenomenon pretty unique to sapphires?

And is anyone with lighter colored sapphires (non CC) willing to post pics of their sapphires in various lighting conditions?

 

[Sagebrush]

Diana,

Sapphire a "day stone" I think I must disagree.

I believe I coined the term or adapted it. The term was originally used to describe opal that remained bright in low light. A very important distinction for opal aficianados.

I use it in Secrets to describe stones that look best in daylight (as opposed to incandescent) and most do. As I said, most blue sapphire picks up a bit of purple (chromium) in incandescent light which gives the stone a velvety hue and that is usually a plus. Darkens a bit, perhaps, but each stone is truly unique so I would not use the term "day stone" in this context.

Wink and Michael E. may want to weigh in here.

 

[chrono]

Most gemstone varieties will colour shift from natural sunlight to incandescent. Rare are the stones (within each family group) that will hold its colour well under all lighting and those command a premium.

 

[LD]

Date: 10/27/2009 4:32:16 PM
Author: Richard W. Wise
Diana,

Sapphire a ''day stone'' I think I must disagree.

I believe I coined the term or adapted it. The term was originally used to describe opal that remained bright in low light. A very important distinction for opal aficianados.

I use it in Secrets to describe stones that look best in daylight (as opposed to incandescent) and most do. As I said, most blue sapphire picks up a bit of purple (chromium) in incandescent light which gives the stone a velvety hue and that is usually a plus. Darkens a bit, perhaps, but each stone is truly unique so I would not use the term ''day stone'' in this context.

Wink and Michael E. may want to weigh in here.

I''m glad you clarified that Richard. The sapphire I posted above actually looks slightly darker in daylight and brighter under artificial light. It never looks dark and always vibrant but I actually prefer the velvety blue I see at night. The daytime "look" is less velvety somehow. I''m not sure that makes sense but this gemstone for me actually looks like an evening stone!

 

[DianaBanana]

Date: 10/27/2009 4:32:16 PM
Author: Richard W. Wise
Diana,

Sapphire a 'day stone' I think I must disagree.

I believe I coined the term or adapted it. The term was originally used to describe opal that remained bright in low light. A very important distinction for opal aficianados.

I use it in Secrets to describe stones that look best in daylight (as opposed to incandescent) and most do. As I said, most blue sapphire picks up a bit of purple (chromium) in incandescent light which gives the stone a velvety hue and that is usually a plus. Darkens a bit, perhaps, but each stone is truly unique so I would not use the term 'day stone' in this context.

Wink and Michael E. may want to weigh in here.

I stand corrected Richard!

Perhaps the term is too broad to be applied to all sapphires, I've certainly seen some beauties here on PS that hold their own in the evening. Although for me and my sapphire, I do prefer how it looks in the day but I'm coming to appreciate the velvety look it takes on in the evening.

Sapphires are addicting, this is my first...but not my last.

ETA - What is the origin of your stone LovingDiamonds? It's a stunner!