Canadian diamonds

[portoar]

quote: P.S. As to the comment of not buying gasoline, did you know Canada is second to only Saudi Arabia in reserves. There are many options out there but many times people and governments make choices based upon money. What is the cheapest to produce, etc.

No, I did not know that . . . though with a Canadian husband and a probable move to Canada in my future, I''m sure I''ll be learning a lot more about Canada.

Good luck to you in your decision making . . . let us know what you get, whatever it is I''m sure it will be beautiful.

 

[galeteia]

I think it is ultimately the choice of the buyer whether they are comfortable with there being a 2% chance that their diamond contributed to the horrors Salmon witnessed first-hand.

Personally, I feel that even one diamond funding terrorism is one diamond too many. I would not be able to bear the thought that there was a chance, even if it was a 2% chance, that my diamond had such bloody origins.

It really depends on the person, and what is an ''acceptable'' to them.

One last thing. Gary commented that he did not feel ''as sorry'' for the Native employees who were ''supported by government pensions''. Even if this were true, which I am not certain of, I know I would rather be a skilled worker bringing home a decent income to my family than jobless, living on a meager dole, and drinking myself to death. And I have seen that first hand.

 

[salmon]

Julieinthecity and Galateia,


I applaud your humanitarian spirit! Thank you for your eloquent words. I must say,if you see the images and the affects of conflict diamonds first hand, as I have in Sierra Leone, it''s impossible to justify purchasing diamonds that are not mind clean. Although I''ve worked for 8 years as a humanitarian abroad, I have more respect for people like julieinthecity and Galateia. Why? Because you guys made a moral decision based on facts you could ascertain from a distance. I saw it first hand, which leaves you with no other choice than to make a compassionate decision. Or to at least ,have a mind clean stone (conflict free). I can''t say, if I lived in the US or Canada, I would have made the same decision as you have made Julieinthecity. That''s why I respect your decision. Although i''m assuming you''ve never been in a diamond conflict area previously. Well, at least I can say I didn''t meet you in the Ivory Coast, Sierra Leone, or Guinea Or did I? I guess what i''m trying to say in all my ramblin is: GOODLUCK on your purchase, and thanks for making a moral, mind clean choice. It''s truly people like you, who continue to motivate me in my efforts. Peace

 

[denverappraiser]

Salmon,

How will buying diamonds of certified Canadian origin help?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[salmon]

How will it help? That''s a fair question.

It helps by not adding fuel to the fire. It''s one more small thing you can do. You''ll be certain your money isn''t indirectly responsible for the hacking off of limbs (babies and elderly), I think the victims of the civil war (I''m speaking only about Sierra Leone, Liberia, and Guinea) will appreciate the effort. Will it help the economy, probably not. But buying conflict diamonds hasn''t helped Sierra Leone, Liberia, or Guinea either. Are you in the diamond business? Vendor? If so, I certainly understand your position and a boycott on conflict diamonds could have a negative impact on your business. I''m not really advocating either, I jUST RESPECT consumers rights to make informed decisions. Diamond mining in the aforementioned countries hasn''t assisted in sustainable, longterm development at all. At all!!! If consumers sleep better at night by buying a conflict free diamond (mind clean) then so be it. I may have a bitter taste in my mouth because I witnessed the atrocities firsthand when I worked with MSF (Doctors Without Borders) in Sierra Leone. All of my staff have their stories and I listened. My log asst. Pregnant Mother was hacked to death in front of her infant children, and feral dogs eat her remains in Bo/Kenema, a diamond mining district. The rebels in that area arms (machetes/guns) were paid for by Sanko Foday, who almost exclusively wage the civil war with only illicit diamond funds. All diamonds purchased from him funded his personal war and they are blood diamonds. I''m jumping a bit here but I want to mention one other thing.

Almost all the local diamond merchants are Lebanese merchants in Sierra Leone. Africans are almost completely locked out of the game. Many of these merchants are sent to Sierra Leone by Hezbollah, to help fund Jihad activities. I ran into them daily. Nice guys, but on a mission! I know I jumped a bit here but I wanted to mention that before I forgot. maybe buying canadians diamonds would also reduce terroist activities committed by Hezbollah, I don''t know. But every action we take, negative or positive affects someone, somewhere in the world. My opinions and positions are based on what I''ve seen with my own eyes, not what I read in a book or saw in a movie. I''m just passionate about it. AND I READILY ADMIT I COULD BE WRONG! I just support consumer wishes. Listen I have to run, I have a curfew to make. I''m sorry I have a lot I would like to say, maybe we can continue later. Sorry about my ramblin. too many things I want to say and can''t articulate, due to time contraints and multiple thoughts. I''ll try to finsih this post tommorow. Sorry Neil. I don''t want to argue about this, you''re free to your opinions and I''m free to mine. Enough said! I''ve never purchased a diamond before, maybe I''ll change my mind about conflict diamonds. Who knows/ Chat with you tommorow
.

 

[denverappraiser]

I’m not disagreeing that it’s a tragedy and I’m all for customers doing things that will help. I am, however, highly suspicious of symbolic gestures even those that are directed at a valid problem. It provides a distraction for good people and allows the evil to continue because it ‘feels’ like you’ve done something.

I contend that a boycott of non-Canadian diamonds by morally responsible consumers does nothing to benefit the people in Sierra Leone and actually harms the people in Botswana, Namibia, Russia and elsewhere. It does nothing to reduce funding for terrorists and it increases criminal participation in the diamond industry, which actually makes the situation in Sierra Leone worse. This is not progress.

How about this as an alternative: Develop a system for identifying diamonds that originate from socially responsible sources and use consumer pressure on merchants and governments to make it difficult or impossible to traffic in stones from sources that don’t comply. We could even create an overseeing agency backed by the UN to monitor the mines and markets to reduce or hopefully eliminate fraud. Countries and mines that operate in a responsible way get rewarded with increased sales and those that insist on using terror tactics get penalized by finding it more difficult to sell their output and must consequently sell at a discount on the black market. Boycott the criminals, meaning the black marketers, and reward the good guys with your business.

Yes, I’m in the diamond business although I don’t buy or sell diamonds. I’m a full time professional appraiser.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[diagem]

Date: 5/25/2006 10:43:10 AM
Author: denverappraiser

I’m not disagreeing that it’s a tragedy and I’m all for customers doing things that will help. I am, however, highly suspicious of symbolic gestures even those that are directed at a valid problem. It provides a distraction for good people and allows the evil to continue because it ‘feels’ like you’ve done something.

I contend that a boycott of non-Canadian diamonds by morally responsible consumers does nothing to benefit the people in Sierra Leone and actually harms the people in Botswana, Namibia, Russia and elsewhere. It does nothing to reduce funding for terrorists and it increases criminal participation in the diamond industry, which actually makes the situation in Sierra Leone worse. This is not progress.

How about this as an alternative: Develop a system for identifying diamonds that originate from socially responsible sources and use consumer pressure on merchants and governments to make it difficult or impossible to traffic in stones from sources that don’t comply. We could even create an overseeing agency backed by the UN to monitor the mines and markets to reduce or hopefully eliminate fraud. Countries and mines that operate in a responsible way get rewarded with increased sales and those that insist on using terror tactics get penalized by finding it more difficult to sell their output and must consequently sell at a discount on the black market. Boycott the criminals, meaning the black marketers, and reward the good guys with your business.



Are you serious!!!! Do you really believe in what you are writting?????

Do you really believe that what you are writting is really realistic.

Yes, I’m in the diamond business although I don’t buy or sell diamonds. I’m a full time professional appraiser.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

Here is something interesting i just picked up:


Book: The Heartless Stone

By Jeff Miller Posted: 5/25/2006 11:11 AM

(Rapaport...May 25, 2006) What did a broken marriage proposal do for author Tom Zoellner? He wrote a book about the diamond pipeline titled: The Heartless Stone. The book is scheduled for release on May 30, 2006.

In a recent interview with New Times in Phoenix, Arizona, Zoellner said that after his fiancé returned the engagement ring to him, the memories associated with the diamond ring were painful reminders of the breakup. Zoellner set-out on a global journey to follow the diamond pipeline --from mine to market-- and he calls the industry "one of the most opaque" on the globe.

He told the press that "people who sell diamonds have been good at keeping secret what happens between the mine and the mall," but he added that while his investigation is not new to the publishing industry, how he builds all pipeline issues into one story should set the book apart from the others.

While Zoellner said it is not a simple case of reading his book and walking away with a sense of good or bad feelings about diamonds, the main point was that there is no way to know where the diamond has been. "It could have been killed for or slaved over by a 10-year-old. That little stone on your spouse''s finger could have a very upsetting pedigree," he told New Times.

The author stated that the diamantaires he approached for interviews were "unfailingly polite," and that the industry is not an evil empire.

In a publicized excerpt from The Heartless Stone, Zoellner writes: "The smuggler watched me peer into the rock. He said something in French to his friends. One of them tapped out a quick rhythm in his hand with the butt of his cell phone. Another glanced at the door to the alley and fingered the edge of the jacket he wore, even though it was a warm day."

"''You brought these from the Congo?'' I asked."

"''Today,'' he said. ''In a wooden canoe rowed over to Bangui.'' The mine itself was several hundred kilometers away, down a road into the jungle. I looked again at the dull yellow shape, wondering about its history, pretending I knew what I was looking at."

Zoellner said he didn''t buy the smuggled diamond offered him, and that he had only bought a diamond once before -- at a jeweler''s store in California. He said he asked the jeweler were the diamond came from, and she replied, "''I don''t know.''"

"''Is there any way to tell?'' I asked."

"''Not really,'' she said. ''Probably Africa. That’s where they all come from.''"

The Heartless Stone details Zoellner''s travels across Canada, New York''s diamond district, Brazil, central and southern Africa, India, Russia, Japan, and Australia.

RAPAPORT - Information that means Business

 

[denverappraiser]

Yes, I think what I describe as a strategy is both possible and well on the way to becoming a reality at www.kimberleyprocess.com

More significantly, I don’t think anything in the book review you presented has provided an alternative, much less better suggestion. Perhaps I’m missing something. I gather that the author is agreeing that there is a problem in Africa, are they suggesting that a consumer boycott of all non-Canadian stones will help? How?
I’ll be sure to pick up a copy of the book. I hope it has some good ideas and not just more of the same old hand wringing to make a buck selling books at the expense of the victims of this global tragedy.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[diagem]

Date: 5/25/2006 7:00:46 PM
Author: denverappraiser

Yes, I think what I describe as a strategy is both possible and well on the way to becoming a reality at www.kimberleyprocess.com

More significantly, I don’t think anything in the book review you presented has provided an alternative, much less better suggestion. Perhaps I’m missing something. I gather that the author is agreeing that there is a problem in Africa, are they suggesting that a consumer boycott of all non-Canadian stones will help? How?

I’ll be sure to pick up a copy of the book. I hope it has some good ideas and not just more of the same old hand wringing to make a buck selling books at the expense of the victims of this global tragedy.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

No Neil, the book has nothing to do with it..., its just a book that just came out, which just shows that when the media decides to address an issue...

Back to the Kimberly Process...., its a good idea, but only the beginning, far FAR away from ID''ing any diamond material or origin...

The kimberly process can help, because we, or i should say this business is still build on "trust, reputation, good name and standings", but it can only help...

Diamonds that are smuggled out of the mines, any mines as a fact, are going to find themselves on the market..., any market... and nothing you can do to stop it...., believe me the KP wont stop it.

I believe in teaching and explaining...., if you explain and teach the worried consumer that there are other places they spend their $$$, and without even knowing, they finance these situations.... (and believe me there are tons of examples)

 

[salmon]

Neil,

I see your point now and I''m in complete agreement with you. The good guys should be rewarded and the bad guys should be punished. However, Diagem also has a point, the UN has been useless in my interventions with them. I''m not even close to an advocate of Bolten, but he once said "You could demolish ten stories of the UN building in New York and you wouldn''t notice a difference in the efficiency and etc." Grudingly, I agree with him to some degree. I understand you''re saying come up with a plan, not some arbitrary boycott, which could punish the good players and the bad players. I agree, I just don''t know how we could go about it in a meaningful way. The process you outlined is a meaningful start. However, Neil I wouldn''t underestimate the impact of consumer boycotts. The boycotting of the bus industry and sit ends in serve white only establishments by poor Blacks changed the South forever. Is it still a fairly racist place, I would say yes I''m from Alabam, and only speaking from my own experince there. However, despite the lingering racist and instances of social injustices, many peripheral changes have come about because of those simple boycotts. We have had two descendants of slaves (Rice and Powell) serve as Secretary of State in the US. That would have never happened without what started out as simple boycotts by tired disenfranchised Blacks in Mongomery, Alabama. They had no idea the entire nation would stand behind them in Unity. Those protest gathered forced and the momentum was used to protest the Vietnam war, whether you agree with the protests are not. EVERYTHING WE DO AS CONSUMERS HAS A GOOD OR BAD IMPACT ON SOMEONE SOMEWHERE IN THE WORLD. Neil, I suspect you''re a great guy and as a lurker I have noticed you have always been one of the most articulate posters on this boards. I don''t think we disagree, I think we go about forming solutions differently. I SEE CLEARLY THE Faults with my proposition and I see some faults with yours as well. I prefer direct interventions, which is why I do the work I do. How about all consumers give 2 percent of their diamond purchases to a good cause of their choice. Now that would be revolutionary and appropriate. Even 1% would suffice in my opinion. I''m always fighting and begging for money. It pains me when I can''t get an extra 1,000 dollars to provide clean running water to people who describe water as brown as gray, because they''ve never seen clear water in their life times.

Neil, I would love to take you to Sierra Leone when I get some free time. Afghanistan and Pakistan both have me tied down for the next 6 months. But I do plan on going back to Africa in a year or so. Don''t worry, you would be in good hands. I have contacts and friends all over the place. Maybe after seeing some things and hearing some stories, you could come up with a better solution than the aforementioned ones we both offered. I think they both have their flaws. You seem like a man with the brain power to do that to me. I''m too emtional about these things, which often clouds my better judgement, good or bad. Neil, thank you for your veiws. I think you make very valid and solid points. Some with which I agree and others I do not. I''m glad this didn''t turn into a flaming thread. Thank you Sir.

Small world, maybe we''ll meet someday. Stranger things have happened to me.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

So why and how does avoiding diamonds from Africa, or of unknown provenance help people from Siierra Leonie, the Congo or Liberia and angola?

And bTW - the quoted figure is 0.2% of diamonds are said to be from "unknown" or potentially smuggled sources.
I read thru the Global Witness reports (long) and they seem to have ceased quoting figures.

 

[diagem]

Date: 5/26/2006 2:00:46 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
So why and how does avoiding diamonds from Africa, or of unknown provenance help people from Siierra Leonie, the Congo or Liberia and angola?

And bTW - the quoted figure is 0.2% of diamonds are said to be from ''unknown'' or potentially smuggled sources.
I read thru the Global Witness reports (long) and they seem to have ceased quoting figures.

You are 100% right, my mistake...

I still dont understand how people know where their diamonds come from..., once its polished..., you cant identify anymore...

and i dont know why there is a premium for "Canadian" Diamonds...
I personally know plenty of Cutters who cut Canadian allocations of rough diamonds, and when they market these diamonds, they dont dare ask a premium!!!!

So is it a "marketing tool"???? Canada made diamonds for more????

And obviously "cleaner"!!!

 

[denverappraiser]

Salmon,
I was a hippie peacenik before peacenik was even a word.

I agree that a well-done boycott can be a powerful force and the bus strikes in the south is a good example. The riders, especially black riders, wanted some very specific things before they would agree to ride the bus. The other beneficiaries of the system, for example, businesses that wanted workers and customers to come to them, found that it was in their enlightened best interest to join in and to add pressure the bus company to change the rules. The bus companies found that it was in their best interest to comply. The consuming public made it clear with what they wanted, it was possible for the companies to comply and when companies started to comply they were rewarded for it. The pressure kept building on those who refused until their position became effectively impossible. This contains all of the required elements. Refusing to buy non-Canadian diamonds contains none of them.

I also agree that the UN is nearly useless but they are the most politically acceptable worldwide government agency currently available. What makes Canadian stones better? Provenance. They come with an assurance by the government of Northwest Territories that they are of Canadian origin. As a dealer, appraiser or consumer, there is no scientific test to prove this. It’s all in the paperwork and the laser marking. It’s based entirely on the credibility of GNWT and faith in Canadian laws and their policing actions. In no way am I saying that they are not worthy of your trust but neither are they 100%. Criminals can smuggle things in and out of Canada and counterfeiters can imitate their products. All in all the standards are pretty clear, the enforcement is pretty good and they have the best program in the world for addressing this issue. I think a consumer can reasonably rely on the GWNT documents as evidence of Canadian origin, any customer can be proud to patronize them and any dealer can be proud to sell them. Why then, can’t the governments of Botswana or Russia, or even the private mining companies implement similar programs?

In the end, I think this is going to be the real solution and, yes, it’s largely a marketing issue. ‘Crafted with pride in Namibia’ simply doesn’t have the consumer power in the US that pictures of icebergs and polar bears does. Maybe that’s racist, maybe it's advertising, maybe it’s just that it’s easier for Americans to find Canada on a map than Namibia and maybe it’s the long history of reliability of the Canadian government but in any case I think it’s the heart of the issue. The UN enjoys at least SOME credibility and Kimberly is the start, not the end. These things aren’t carved in stone. I remember when ‘Made in Japan’ was viewed as a product-warning label instead of as a badge of honor. Wouldn't it be great if 10 years from now the powers that are in control of Congo find that it's in their enlightened self interest to act more like Botswana?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[galeteia]

Somehow, I''m still getting this impression that there is a ''Canadians are rolling in dough, the only reason to buy from them is to boycott conflict diamonds'' kind of sentiment going on.

I would like buyers to please remember that when they purchase Canadian diamonds, they are DIRECTLY putting money into the hands of impoverished people who have suffered terribly at the hands of the european settlers who were our ''illustrious forefathers''. And it kept happening, as recently as the children of my mother''s generation being taken from their families (forcibly) and sent off to boarding schools, where the attempt to ''whiten'' them and eradicate their culture and pride went so far as to beat if they spoke their own language. White doctors who were attending the birth of Native women would routinely perform UNAUTHORIZED hysterectomies! I have wept when I read (and heard, from Native women directly) the appalling things that Native peoples have undergone at our hands, right here in North America. Inuit people were routinely used to test out whether locations were sutiable for bases by dumping them off for a year at a time, while they froze and starved because the area was inhospitable.

Now, the Native peoples of Nunavut are discovering newfound self-sufficency, and are recieving training for jobs as cutters and polishers, not just miners.

So please, before you assert that there are poor people who are going to be hurt if a ''moral consumer'', as Salmon called Julieinthecity and I, stick to Canadian diamonds, please remember that there are poor people IN OUR OWN BACKYARD, and we helped to make them that way.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 5/24/2006 12:07:43 AM
Author:julieinthecity
I have been thinking about Canadian diamonds lately since I want to avoid conflict diamonds at all costs. Has anyone bought one or know of any good places to buy Canadian diamonds?

Thanks.

Galeteia,

Hopefully it's not my posts that are giving this impression. The original question, quoted above, is about buying Canadian as a strategy for avoiding conflict diamonds. There are wonderful people in Canada, they produce excellent products and they are very deserving of support but patronizing them does not help the situation in Africa and the perception that buying Canadian prevents the killing of people in Africa is not valid and destructive. Buy Canadian because you want to support Nunavut or Canadian ventures, because you like their fine products, or a whole host of other good reasons, not because it is a way to avoid conflict diamonds.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[galeteia]

Neil, no, it is not your posts that have given that impression. Your argumements are clear and have supported your position on the matter with objective and non-inflammatory comments.

I do not want this thread to turn into a flaming session, so I''m not going to point fingers. I stand by my belief that the risk that my diamond contributed to someone''s misery is too much for me to be comfortable buying a non-Canadian diamond.

 

[salmon]

Neil,

Thank you for your comments, many were quite eye opening. I''m sure you were a peacenik before I was a born, based on what you''ve said. I look forward to an continued debate and look into these issues, it''s been far too long.

Galetia,

Thank you for educating me on the Native peoples in Canada, I wasn''t aware of the problems or issues. But now that you have enlightened me, I''ll do some research on my own. You''re right we should also discuss how Canadian diamonds help native people in Canada. I truly thank you for the insights. You can never learn enough.

 

[MikeM]

I was at a Rogers and Hollands today, and the sales person showed me several settings with diamonds from their new "Canadia" (sp?) line. He said that the diamonds were mined in Canada and a couple of southern states (whose names I can't remember).

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Salmon, Galatesia and others.

I would like to simply ask you all to understand that your good intentions do not do anything to proactively help.

The diamond industry employees or provides benefits to many people in thrid world low income nations. In some of those nations diamond revenue is a very large part of the taxes and employment.

The diamond industry is going through a tough time at present. Rough diamond prices are falling and liquidity is very tight. If this issue breaks out and was to lead to a say just a 10% reduction in diamond purchases - then there could be a very damaging reduction in revenue and employment in many of those nations.

Of course you could accuse me of acting with a vested interest; and there would be some truth in that too.

But I have had strong feelings about this issue too - as do many others in our industry. The difference is I tried to do my bit when it was most important - years ago.

In 1999 I chaired a presentation by Martin Rapaport on conflict diamoneds at the Australian jewellery trade fair. I personally paid for a PR agent to get him interviewed by national ABC and other radio and TV stations - he (and me) was on national news etc and we informed jewellers nationwide and helped get the Aussie govt off its butt and into the Kimberely Process.

A couple of years ago I alerted the govt of a Liberian smuggling plan to smuggle diamonds via diplomatic sealed bags.

So I feel that I have been proactive on this issue and i really do feel sick about the idea that people should avoid diamonds that are likely to have come from Africa etc by selecting diamonds that are known not to come from Africa (eg Canada). You think you are helping when in fact you hurt.

But I know that I can not change your minds - so I give up.

 

[portoar]

Neil wrote: How about this as an alternative: Develop a system for identifying diamonds that originate from socially responsible sources and use consumer pressure on merchants and governments to make it difficult or impossible to traffic in stones from sources that don’t comply.

But Neil, this is just what julieinthecity and others are trying to do!!! Canadian diamonds (correct me if I''m wrong) are the only diamonds originating from a "socially responsible source" with country of origin marked on the girdle . . . if other diamonds from "socially responsible sources" were thus identified by country of origin, this issue would go away! This is the whole reason some people want to buy the Canadian diamonds!

Instead of "4 Cs" we consumers want 5 -- cut, color, clarity, carat weight, and country of origin . . .

 

[portoar]

Date: 5/26/2006 10:22:02 AM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 5/24/2006 12:07:43 AM
Author:julieinthecity
I have been thinking about Canadian diamonds lately since I want to avoid conflict diamonds at all costs. Has anyone bought one or know of any good places to buy Canadian diamonds?

Thanks.

Galeteia,

Hopefully it''s not my posts that are giving this impression. The original question, quoted above, is about buying Canadian as a strategy for avoiding conflict diamonds. There are wonderful people in Canada, they produce excellent products and they are very deserving of support but patronizing them does not help the situation in Africa and the perception that buying Canadian prevents the killing of people in Africa is not valid and destructive. Buy Canadian because you want to support Nunavut or Canadian ventures, because you like their fine products, or a whole host of other good reasons, not because it is a way to avoid conflict diamonds.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

Neil and Garry, here''s the distinction: No one is aiming to help the situation in Africa through the purchase of Canadian diamonds. No one has advanced the argument that buying Canadian diamonds prevents the killing of people in Africa or in any way improves the conditions of people living or working there.

Rather, the argument is that they don''t want to purchase a product that could directly or indirectly support armed conflict or the continuation of untenable living conditions of workers.

What some of you seem to be arguing is that we should continue buying african diamonds because, well, if we don''t we won''t help the impoverished. . . ???

I should think that strong consumer support of diamonds produced by socially responsible countries would encourage other diamond producers to fall into step and create their own socially responsible policies . . . of course, I''m not naive enough to think this could or will actually happen . . . the percentage of the buying public who is concerned with socially responsible spending (in any facet of their lives, not just diamonds) is too small.

 

[salmon]

Portoar,

Bravo! well said. You have condensed in two succint posts, what we''ve been trying to say in a plethora. Thank you.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 5/28/2006 9:49:16 AM
Author: portoar

Canadian diamonds (correct me if I'm wrong) are the only diamonds originating from a 'socially responsible source' with
country of origin marked on the girdle . . . if other diamonds from 'socially responsible sources' were thus identified by country of origin, this issue would go away!

I agree,

Botswana is a socially responsible country. Namibia is a socially responsible country. Australia is a socially responsible country. Avoiding their stones because they are non-Canadian does not encourage others to emulate them. On the contrary. It sends the message that treating workers and the environment fairly is a way to increase costs and reduce profits without reward. Some will do it anyway because it’s the right thing to do but if the objective is to set up conditions where producers behave the way consumers wish then this is not effective.

I agree that the Canadian program is the best in the world but it is not the only one. Every stone legally imported into the United States is guaranteed to be conflict free. Like many things, the devil is in the details and the question becomes: Guaranteed by whom? For the certified Canadian stones, this is easy – it’s the government of the North West Territories. For other brands it’s the brand holder. HoF, ACA, Eightstar, Infinity and all of the others are all KP compliant. Their guarantee is backed by KP, the UN and US customs. A customer buying a branded stone from any of these fine companies can be confident that they are not buying a conflict stone.

The issue is one of marketing. That’s why I pointed out the GCAL document being released in Las Vegas this week. This is a guarantee of non-conflict from a 3rd party source and serves no purpose other than to address this issue. Is this valuable? Is it sufficient? Would something else be better? If a manufacturer were to guarantee their stones to be conflict free and were to offer these for sale either directly or through retailers, would this be sufficient? Stuller does exactly this, and has for years on every stone they sell.

I agree that Julieinthecity didn’t ask how she could help the problems in Africa and I didn’t enter this discussion until her question about where to buy Canadian had been clearly answered. I do think it was reasonable to assume that her concern about avoiding conflict diamonds stems from concern about the welfare of people in Africa and that this conversation is therefore appropriate.

I am arguing that avoiding all African diamonds is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. All African (or other non-Canadian) suppliers are not the same and it is doing the poeple of Africa a disservice to treat them as if they were.


Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[portoar]

Neil wrote: I agree that the Canadian program is the best in the world but it is not the only one. Every stone legally imported into the United States is guaranteed to be conflict free. Like many things, the devil is in the details and the question becomes: Guaranteed by whom? For the certified Canadian stones, this is easy – it’s the government of the North West Territories. For other brands it’s the brand holder. HoF, ACA, Eightstar, Infinity and all of the others are all KP compliant. Their guarantee is backed by KP, the UN and US customs. A customer buying a branded stone from any of these fine companies can be confident that they are not buying a conflict stone.

And this is precisely what most of us consumers are not aware of. This is where we need to rely on people like you on this board to educate us. Knowing this, Julieinthecity might feel more comfortable purchasing a diamond without a country of origin cert, but, to begin with, I bet she was unaware of what you assert, that every legally imported diamond is guaranteed to be conflict free. This is where a lot of debate could be avoided by just saying so in the first place.

 

[denverappraiser]

Here’s the law called the Clean Diamond Trade Act, passed unanimously by Congress on April 25, 2003.

http://www.fas.org/asmp/resources/govern/108th/pl_108_19.pdf

This applies to rough diamonds that will presumably be cut by US based cutters. The other KP signatories, including the other major cutting centers have similar laws.

Here's the policy from JA about polished diamonds. JA is a large trade group of jewelers that requires their members to require KP compliance of their suppliers. This part is not a legal requirement but it's pretty typical.

http://www.professionaljeweler.com/archives/news/2002/121302story.html

I agree, this has not been well promoted by the dealers.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[denverappraiser]

Marketing is a huge problem and I think it’s the reason that the dealers are keeping a low profile. As was pointed out several posts ago, approximately every stone ever mined is still in the market. This leaves a huge number of stones where there is no documented history. This sort of certification can, by it’s nature, only apply to recently mined stones. I think the manufactures who are cutting from rough stones can and should promote their KP compliance as part of their branding. I do know some manufacturers of this description and I’ll ask why it’s so unusual. Perhaps it’s a simple as a lack of a credible certifying authority as the GCAL people seem to think.
The merits of recycling stand on it’s own and perhaps should have some different sort of certification since it’s not possible for this to be part of the KP.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[diagem]

Date: 5/28/2006 9:49:16 AM
Author: portoar
Neil wrote: How about this as an alternative: Develop a system for identifying diamonds that originate from socially responsible sources and use consumer pressure on merchants and governments to make it difficult or impossible to traffic in stones from sources that don’t comply.

But Neil, this is just what julieinthecity and others are trying to do!!! Canadian diamonds (correct me if I''m wrong) are the only diamonds originating from a ''socially responsible source'' with country of origin marked on the girdle . . . if other diamonds from ''socially responsible sources'' were thus identified by country of origin, this issue would go away! This is the whole reason some people want to buy the Canadian diamonds!

Instead of ''4 Cs'' we consumers want 5 -- cut, color, clarity, carat weight, and country of origin . . .

No portoar, Canadian diamonds are NOT the only diamonds originating from responsible sources!!!!!
I can mark whatever you want on a diamond...., mark it off, and re-mark it again... (sorry, but no cigar...)

 

[denverappraiser]

Every country that is part of the Kimberely Process has passed laws making it illegal to either import or export rough diamonds that do not carry the KP certification. In addition to every significant diamond mining country, this list contains every significant manufacturing and trading center in the world. This means that buyers of finished diamonds being legally produced from rough in ANY of these countries can be reasonably confident that they are not buying a conflict diamond.

1. Angola
2. Armenia
3. Australia
4. Belarus
5. Botswana
6. Brazil
7. Bulgaria
8. Canada
9. Central African Republic
10. China, People''s Republic of
11. Congo, Democratic Republic of
12. Cote D'' Ivoire
13. Croatia
14. European Community
15. Ghana
16. Guinea
17. Guyana
18. India
19. Indonesia
20. Israel
21. Japan
22. Korea, Republic of
23. Lao, Democratic Republic of
24. Lebanon
25. Lesotho
26. Malaysia
27. Mauritius
28. Namibia
29. Norway
30. Romania
31. Russian Federation
32. Sierra Leone
33. Singapore
34. South Africa
35. Sri Lanka
36. Switzerland
37. Tanzania
38. Thailand
39. Togo
40. Ukraine
41. United Arab Emirates
42. United States of America
43. Venezuela
44. Vietnam
45. Zimbabwe

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[diagem]

Date: 5/28/2006 1:46:59 PM
Author: denverappraiser

Marketing is a huge problem and I think it’s the reason that the dealers are keeping a low profile. As was pointed out several posts ago, approximately every stone ever mined is still in the market. This leaves a huge number of stones where there is no documented history. This sort of certification can, by it’s nature, only apply to recently mined stones. I think the manufactures who are cutting from rough stones can and should promote their KP compliance as part of their branding. I do know some manufacturers of this description and I’ll ask why it’s so unusual. Perhaps it’s a simple as a lack of a credible certifying authority as the GCAL people seem to think.
The merits of recycling stand on it’s own and perhaps should have some different sort of certification since it’s not possible for this to be part of the KP.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

I dont understand where you are coming from...., it looks like your selling yourself short...., if you want to sound what the consumer wants to hear, its seems to me you should be in politics.

What does KP has to do with branding!!!
Loads of manufacturers dont even want to touch the branding subject because they dont believe in this term for the subject of diamonds, in fact most manufacturers do nothing to brand their product.

Canadian brand = premium $$$, it shows me that the Canadians are charging a premium just for the sake of the existance of "CONFLICT DIAMONDS"
No-one pays a premium for canadian rough, and if they do its exactly the same as one would for a DTC box, or any of the Russian allocations.

Premiums on rough are based on the demand only and not the origin!!! now correct me if i am wrong!!!

 

[diagem]

Date: 5/28/2006 2:37:29 PM
Author: denverappraiser

Every country that is part of the Kimberely Process has passed laws making it illegal to either import or export rough diamonds that do not carry the KP certification. In addition to every significant diamond mining country, this list contains every significant manufacturing and trading center in the world. This means that buyers of finished diamonds being legally produced from rough in ANY of these countries can be reasonably confident that they are not buying a conflict diamond.

1. Angola
2. Armenia
3. Australia
4. Belarus
5. Botswana
6. Brazil
7. Bulgaria
8. Canada
9. Central African Republic
10. China, People''s Republic of
11. Congo, Democratic Republic of
12. Cote D'' Ivoire
13. Croatia
14. European Community
15. Ghana
16. Guinea
17. Guyana
18. India
19. Indonesia
20. Israel
21. Japan
22. Korea, Republic of
23. Lao, Democratic Republic of
24. Lebanon
25. Lesotho
26. Malaysia
27. Mauritius
28. Namibia
29. Norway
30. Romania
31. Russian Federation
32. Sierra Leone
33. Singapore
34. South Africa
35. Sri Lanka
36. Switzerland
37. Tanzania
38. Thailand
39. Togo
40. Ukraine
41. United Arab Emirates
42. United States of America
43. Venezuela
44. Vietnam
45. Zimbabwe

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

Good so we solved the problem, there are no blood diamonds....

No more conflict diamonds in: Angola, Congo, Sierra, Lebanon etc, etc....

Good work Neil.