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Can people be trusted?

missy

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"
New York Has a 14-Day Quarantine. Most New Yorkers Are Ignoring It.
Travelers returning from states with high infection rates say they are following the rules, but their social media posts say otherwise.



Aug. 16, 2020, 3:00 a.m. ET

Earlier this summer, Sasha Pagan burst into tears during her nursing shift at a hospital on Manhattan’s Upper East Side.
It had been a normal day in the pediatric unit, apart from the masks and the Covid-19 protocols, when a patient arrived for some testing. She was screened at the front door, answering “no” when asked whether she had traveled outside of New York state within the past two weeks, currently a prerequisite for nonemergency medical treatment. But at the end of the appointment, the patient admitted to having been in Florida six days earlier.
Ms. Pagan, who works with adolescents and young adults, was furious. “The patient lied and exposed staff,” she said. “Me, registrars, techs, everyone.”
The pandemic has been brutal for Ms. Pagan, who was sick with Covid-19 herself and lost her uncle to it earlier this year. “This patient was very triggering for me,” she said. “These people are coming in for routine lab work. It wasn’t anything urgent, and that is why I got really upset. It was something that could have waited.”



Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo has mandated that travelers entering New York from other states where positive test results of the coronavirus exceed 10 percent must be quarantined for 14 days. Over 30 states are currently on the quarantine list, along with Puerto Rico. Earlier this month, Mayor Bill de Blasio announced checkpoints at bridges and tunnels throughout the city in an effort to inform travelers about the rules. However, many Americans, antsy to travel again, seem to be making up their own.
“Safely separating upon your arrival home is your civic duty to yourself, your neighbors and your loved ones,” said Avery Cohen, deputy press secretary for the mayor, adding that city officials are knocking on doors, in addition to calling and texting New Yorkers about the new virus guidelines. Mr. de Blasio, speaking earlier this month of the checkpoints, which remain a bit of a mystery in terms of how exactly they will work, said, “We’re not going to let our hard work slip away.”


Where the government may struggle to track travelers, however, social media is capturing their exploits. Many of those thwarting mandatory quarantines are posting about their trips and outings around the city on Facebook and Instagram, which is frustrating and alarming New Yorkers.
Olivia Awe, a figure skating coach and pastry chef, noticed on social media that an acquaintance from college would be returning to New York City after temporarily living with her parents in Florida. The acquaintance had stopped in Virginia, another high-risk state, on her way back, to attend a wedding that didn’t require masks. Ms. Awe spotted Snapchat and Instagram stories detailing the event, she said.
Then the woman was back in New York. “I saw a post on her social media about how she was given the paper stating she needed to quarantine,” said Ms. Awe, 22, who soon thereafter noticed even more posts chronicling the acquaintances’s adventures around the city. The college friend was now bar hopping, eating out at restaurants, and hosting a group of people at her apartment.



Ms. Awe and another friend tried to report the errant young woman, but they could only figure out how to turn in a business, not an individual. “If told how to go about reporting this person I would without hesitation,” she said. “This person is putting so many people at risk and putting our state at risk.”


And it’s not just young people bending quarantine rules. Earlier this summer, a private Facebook chat group of parents whose children attend a well-known art and design school in the city addressed how to move their college-age children to New York City, without committing to the full quarantine first, according to a member of the group, who spoke under condition of anonymity.
Parents in the chat group applauded one post that stated the city couldn’t enforce the quarantine, she said, which left her so spooked that she persuaded her daughter to defer her freshman year.



Logan and Lindsay Davis moved to New York City in July. The couple quarantined for their first two weeks here. “It really wasn’t that bad,” Mr. Davis said. “Everybody should do it.”Credit...Amr Alfiky/The New York Times
New Yorkers who have been strict since March are also noticing some of their friends and neighbors skirt quarantine rules, which makes them second-guess their own standards.
For the first time since the pandemic started, Miri Castor, a graduate science student in Brooklyn, only recently started feeling comfortable taking short walks around her neighborhood. “I have been staying in,” she said. “I have a backyard, where I can go to get a bunch of sunshine.” Even now that her lab is open, she goes there as little as possible, and then heads straight home."


But on social media, she sees her peers acting differently. They are going to parties on the beach and barbecues. A few have taken trips to Florida or the Caribbean and gone to New York City parties soon after they left the airport.

"
 

missy

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calvinandhobbestrust.png
 

Slickk

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I’ve seen a blatant disregard for quarantine regulations near me. However, a colleague was anonymously reported to the health dept when she returned from a state on the list. Her college-aged child was traced to her college and is now quarantining there. Who is following up on the rest of the family, I have no idea...
Selfishness is rampant. Even in a pandemic. And then they’ll scream that the schools can’t open to babysit. /rant
 

missy

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Nope! Australia discovered that early on so we lock em up for 14 days in hotels with security guards.

Should make them pay for it too!

How are you guys going these days in regards to new cases @missy?

How many each day?

I honestly don’t know. I’ve been on a sort of a news break for my mental well being. I certainly don’t trust people to do the right thing. Disappointing.
 

missy

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@Slick1 i agree. The one thing that seems to never be in short supply is selfishness. :(
 

lyra

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My husband has done 2 14 day quarantines after travelling to the US and Europe. No one checked on him, but he did it anyway. He did get tested afterwards and it was negative. I don't think people can be trusted to do this. I have little faith in people these days.
 

dk168

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No, sorry!

Hence I am avoiding crowded areas where social distancing is not possible or practical.

DK :))
 

oodlesofpoodles

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Where I live some of the schools have started back with in person classes - a asymptomatic high school student who tested positive went to school and as a result 30 plus students, teachers, their spouses, parents, siblings, and anyone they have contact with now have to stay home for 14 days - resulting in who knows how much lost income at the least and potential health consequences for those folks. The parents claimed they didn't know when the last day of the students' quarantine would be. What? I'm having so much anxiety about school starting for my children next week I can't even tell you. I am convinced we will be getting sick here shortly. My daughter has asthma and I worry for my medically fragile parents that I have not been able to see since last November. I want to hug my mom and dad, they are not going to be around forever. Ugh - I have something in my eye.....:cry2:
 

Niffler75

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This makes me really sad. I am afraid a substantial amount of people can probably not be trusted. I am taking a media break too like @missy as the more I see pictures of crowded beaches and bars in the UK the more angry I feel.
Sure, I get out the house and get on with as many things as I can while social distancing but geez!
 

TooPatient

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Yes and no. I feel like there are a lot of people who would follow quarantine however uncomfortable not.boring or inconvenient it might be (DH and myself being among them) but there are many who don't follow correctly. Some of those knowingly skip because they don't see why they should have to. Others have been posting that they are "quarantining" so they only go out when they need to -- groceries, pharmacy, takeout -- because of course quarantine only means the unimportant stuff.

I don't think I would support 14 days at a hotel, but using something similar to ankle bracelet GPS trackers seems to be a reasonable step, especially if there is reason to suspect they won't actually take it seriously.
 

seaurchin

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I don't think most of the blame lies with individuals. Fascist Trump has created so much division, chaos and misinformation that many people simply do not know what is true about Covid-19 and what is false.

And the demented mishandling of Covid-19 in the US has allowed it to grow much larger and more prolonged than necessary so many people do not have any reasonable option of being able to stay quarantined.

It becomes neighbor against neighbor when it is really Trump against America. :(
 

Matata

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I don't think most of the blame lies with individuals. Fascist Trump has created so much division, chaos and misinformation that many people simply do not know what is true about Covid-19 and what is false.

No no no no no nonononononononNOOOOOO. Whew, the steam that came out my ears relieved a lot of pressure :bigsmile: What you said about Agent Orange is true. I refuse to allow people to abdicate their responsibility through willful ignorance. We make a choice to be spoon fed info and swallow it without question or use our eyes, ears, and brains to research and figure out the most accurate info available at the moment. Agent Orange is a verified liar. Anyone who believes him is willfully ignorant. Anyone who believes the reports and photos of bodies stacked in refrigerated trucks are fake is willfully ignorant. Anyone still in denial that covid is real with lasting consequences on individuals and society is willfully ignorant. Anyone who is confused about how science works and why information and advice evolves with more experience with covid (or anything else) is willfully ignorant. People who choose to live under a rock with their heads buried even deeper do so voluntarily and they are the only ones responsible for their behavior. There is no excuse for willful ignorance.
 

seaurchin

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I do agree with you, Matata. However, unfortunately, (and honestly not meant to be nasty but simply stating a fact as I see it) it's also true that in any population, half the people will have below average intelligence and/or below average education, by definition. That large group will be very susceptible to manipulation by propaganda and lies, because they truly CAN'T discern what is true and what isn't. When the level of propaganda and lies is extremely high as it is now, the results can be disastrous. What do you think can be done about that?
 

Matata

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half the people will have below average intelligence and/or below average education, by definition. That large group will be very susceptible to manipulation by propaganda and lies, because they truly CAN'T discern what is true and what isn't.

I understand the point you're trying to make but the way you stated it comes across as disrespectful and biased to suggest that the less educated can't discern what is true and what isn't. They would be totally nonfunctional and quickly go extinct if that were accurate. There's a PEW study that confirms that the less educated are more divided between Dem and Rep candidates and that the divide is growing. There is heaps of evidence that less educated voters tend to vote RepublicanThat particular study focused only on white people. A different PEW study concluded that a large chunk of disenfranchised/marginalized -- i.e. poor and undereducated -- Black voters, who are ideologically diverse (estimated at 25% conservative and 43% moderate), are loyal Democrats.

Some food for thought, exerpted from https://www.theatlantic.com/educati...cation-gap-explains-american-politics/575113/ and I added the bolding in last paragraph:

There’s a question that splits Americans neatly in two. Every year, on its American Values Survey, the Public Religion Research Institute asks Americans whether they “think American culture and way of life has mostly changed for the better, or has it mostly changed for the worse,” since the 1950s. Fifty percent of Americans say that it’s gotten better in this year’s poll, and 47 percent say that it has gotten worse.

But for white voters, the answer to that question is split by education level. Fifty-eight percent of college-educated whites this year say that America has gotten better since 1950, while 57 percent of non-college-educated whites say that it’s gotten worse. When President Trump says “Make America great again,” the again is instructive. He’s capitalizing on the nostalgia that non-college-educated white voters have for America’s past. “That harkening back to a supposed golden age where things were better has a really, really strong appeal for whites without a college degree,” Jones said.TRTT

When researchers control for voter attitudes on race in addition to white voters’ education level, Tesler says, the diploma divide disappears. No other factor, he says, explains the education gap as well—not economic anxiety, ideology, income, or gender.

David N. Smith, a professor at the University of Kansas, came to a similar conclusion when he and Eric Hanley took a dive into the 2016 American National Election Survey. They found that demographic data such as education are important predictors of which party someone votes for. But “when you bring the attitudes variables into account as well, what emerges is that attitudes loom even larger than demographics,” he told me.

Here’s how he put it: If you look at white people who voted for Trump—both those with college degrees and those without—and identify everybody with a high level of resentment toward minorities, women, and Muslims, as well as those who want an arrogant, assertive leader, there’s almost no one left. The vast majority of Trump voters share those sentiments, the researchers found, regardless of education level.
 

seaurchin

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@Matata, I do not mean to be condescending and do not think that I was. The fact is, some people definitely DO have a hard time ferreting out what is true and what is not when their government has taken on a sustained campaign of lying to them.

I'm not saying it's right or that it's the only issue going on there, or that personal responsibility doesn't exist or that we can't try anyway, or etc. etc. etc.

I'm just saying that honest confusion DOES exist. I see evidence daily that many people hold inaccurate views about Trump and what is going on in our country and sincerely believe them. So I think that part of your post is kinda shooting the messenger unfairly there
 
Last edited:

Bron357

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We took it seriously.
DD played a soccer match against a team who had had a three degree removed exposure. A girl on the other teams father (not at the match btw) had been to a place where a confirmed Covid 19 had been identified.
So everyone on my daughters team and their family (Ie parents and siblings) had a test and we all isolated until we got the results. We were all negative including obviously the Dad on the other team but none of us wanted to risk being part of a cluster that went on to kill people.
 

GliderPoss

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Yeah I think generally people do lie and cannot be trusted, even if it's just little white lies that they justify to themselves... :liar: Unfortunately whilst the MAJORITY of people are doing the right thing, a few will always think that somehow the rules doesn't extend to them, or that the circumstance demand they break the rules! :roll:
 

ItsMainelyYou

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snip:
The mutation, earlier seen in other parts of the world and called D614G, was found in at least three of the 45 cases in a cluster that started from a restaurant owner returning from India and breaching his 14-day home quarantine. The man has since been sentenced to five months in prison and fined. The strain was also found in another cluster involving people returning from the Philippines.
end snip.

Nope, which is why they had to arrest this guy for breaking quarantine and spreading/introducing an even worse strain into their area.
 

JPie

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snip:
The mutation, earlier seen in other parts of the world and called D614G, was found in at least three of the 45 cases in a cluster that started from a restaurant owner returning from India and breaching his 14-day home quarantine. The man has since been sentenced to five months in prison and fined. The strain was also found in another cluster involving people returning from the Philippines.
end snip.

Nope, which is why they had to arrest this guy for breaking quarantine and spreading/introducing an even worse strain into their area.
I sure hope he was testing negative before they threw him in prison...
 

ItsMainelyYou

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I sure hope he was testing negative before they threw him in prison...

Me too. I wonder if they'll have to institute 'isolation' prisons just for this.
 

Daisys and Diamonds

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@Slick1 i agree. The one thing that seems to never be in short supply is selfishness. :(

trust is a hard thing right now
i would trust you and Greg, two people i only know from this forum, over some of Gary's family
im pretty sure my sister and her family are doing the right thing, i just hope and pray Gary's son in law is with regards to Melanie's cancer and keeping her safe
 

Daisys and Diamonds

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People suck. I don’t trust them at all. The best I can do is make sure I’m minimizing my own potential for infection.

i think in the present enviroment a bit of self preservation and keeping safe is the best thing for everyone

imangine if everyone had just stayed home for 14 days 4 or 5 months ago
 

scouty

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Jan 26, 2019
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744
I understand the point you're trying to make but the way you stated it comes across as disrespectful and biased to suggest that the less educated can't discern what is true and what isn't. They would be totally nonfunctional and quickly go extinct if that were accurate. There's a PEW study that confirms that the less educated are more divided between Dem and Rep candidates and that the divide is growing. There is heaps of evidence that less educated voters tend to vote RepublicanThat particular study focused only on white people. A different PEW study concluded that a large chunk of disenfranchised/marginalized -- i.e. poor and undereducated -- Black voters, who are ideologically diverse (estimated at 25% conservative and 43% moderate), are loyal Democrats.

Some food for thought, exerpted from https://www.theatlantic.com/educati...cation-gap-explains-american-politics/575113/ and I added the bolding in last paragraph:

There’s a question that splits Americans neatly in two. Every year, on its American Values Survey, the Public Religion Research Institute asks Americans whether they “think American culture and way of life has mostly changed for the better, or has it mostly changed for the worse,” since the 1950s. Fifty percent of Americans say that it’s gotten better in this year’s poll, and 47 percent say that it has gotten worse.

But for white voters, the answer to that question is split by education level. Fifty-eight percent of college-educated whites this year say that America has gotten better since 1950, while 57 percent of non-college-educated whites say that it’s gotten worse. When President Trump says “Make America great again,” the again is instructive. He’s capitalizing on the nostalgia that non-college-educated white voters have for America’s past. “That harkening back to a supposed golden age where things were better has a really, really strong appeal for whites without a college degree,” Jones said.TRTT

When researchers control for voter attitudes on race in addition to white voters’ education level, Tesler says, the diploma divide disappears. No other factor, he says, explains the education gap as well—not economic anxiety, ideology, income, or gender.

David N. Smith, a professor at the University of Kansas, came to a similar conclusion when he and Eric Hanley took a dive into the 2016 American National Election Survey. They found that demographic data such as education are important predictors of which party someone votes for. But “when you bring the attitudes variables into account as well, what emerges is that attitudes loom even larger than demographics,” he told me.

Here’s how he put it: If you look at white people who voted for Trump—both those with college degrees and those without—and identify everybody with a high level of resentment toward minorities, women, and Muslims, as well as those who want an arrogant, assertive leader, there’s almost no one left. The vast majority of Trump voters share those sentiments, the researchers found, regardless of education level.

Wow, I find these insights are both very interesting and highly depressing. But not surprising at all.
 

Matata

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Wow, I find these insights are both very interesting and highly depressing.

I know there have been successful partnerships among Dems and Reps in the past but those studies made me doubt that we can achieve partnership between parties on a scale that benefits our country and it makes me doubt that we will be able to shrink the increasing divide among voters.
 

Bron357

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If only there was a place we could send all the people who don’t think the virus is serious, those who consider themselves too young, too healthy, too religious, too important, too rich to get sick and don’t think rules apply to them, and those who are selfish and self centred or just plain idiots. Let them keep their precious personal rights and freedom to do what they want when they want and mingle, party, holiday and dance and share to their hearts content, their choice, their consequence.
 

JPie

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If only there was a place we could send all the people who don’t think the virus is serious, those who consider themselves too young, too healthy, too religious, too important, too rich to get sick and don’t think rules apply to them, and those who are selfish and self centred or just plain idiots. Let them keep their precious personal rights and freedom to do what they want when they want and mingle, party, holiday and dance and share to their hearts content, their choice, their consequence.

Quarantine Island! It can be a reality TV show.
 
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