Anti Semitism....

[missy]

I saw this article on the Internet and immediately remembered this thread. I wanted to bring it to the attention of others, because I thought it was worth knowing about, but didn't know where to post it until I remembered missy had raised the topic. Good old missy!!!

This is an example of anti-semitism at work today in the United States, not much attention paid to it since-as the author said-we expect targets of discrimination to be other groups, not Jews. Things worked out for the young woman who was scrutinized for being Jewish...but the fact that she was shows that prejudice was at work.

Link to article...http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/06/us/debate-on-a-jewish-student-at-ucla.html?action=click&contentCollection=Opinion&module=MostEmailed&version=Full&region=Marginalia&src=me&pgtype=article

Deb/AGBF

Dear Deb, thank you for sharing this and I just read it now thanks to your link. Wow, but it sadly does not surprise me. I agree 100% with this:

“I am not one who sees anti-Semites lurking under every bed,” he wrote in his blog. “I am not a fear-monger. I do not believe that all criticism of Jews or the state of Israel is necessarily anti-Semitic.”

“Yet,” he said, “our inability to use the term anti-Semitism when it concerns Jews, when we don’t have a problem calling other forms of ethnic and religious bigotry what it is, raises disturbing questions about prevalent attitudes towards Jews, Judaism, Zionism, and the state of Israel.”

So true. Being raised and still living in NYC I am sheltered for the most part from this type of behavior but I do see it occurring. It seems as if it is one of the last acceptable form of bigotry in a way. I say in a way because of course as we all know racism/bigotry/discrimination against many people just because they are not like (the proverbial) "you" still exists everywhere. Though thankfully to a somewhat lesser degree than in the past. For the most part one of the reasons people don't think it happens to the Jewish people is because they have the opportunity to be and are successful so many do not think of Jews as discriminated against. Yes, it still happens and one wonders if it is happening with a bit more frequency these days than the recent past or if we are just becoming more aware.

I wrote about this before that in some ways, today, discrimination can be more dangerous because when it does exist it is often more insidious and often well cloaked, so much so that people experiencing it might not be sure it is happening. No one wants to see discrimination existing and for that reason sometimes we convince ourselves no it cannot be that. I have been guilty of that as well. Trying to excuse away what is clearly prejudice because it is difficult to believe people can be so ignorant and hateful and no one wants to believe in this day and age it is still happening.

As always awareness is the first step in making this a better world for all. If one denies something exists one cannot take the steps necessary to correct the wrong(s). I think there will always be discrimination against people who are (perceived as) different no matter what but I hope that with time it will be less so and people will more judge someone on who they are as an individual and not what they are if that makes sense. Martin Luther King Jr said it best:

“I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.” – Martin Luther King, Jr. August 28, 1963

 

[AGBF]

Guess What Just Happened at Stanford?

Guess What Just Happened at Stanford? Another blatant example of student-on-student anti-semitism. Isn't it time that people spoke up against bashing Jews even if they are not economically deprived and being picked on by the police? I belong to the NAACP and also financially support the Southern Poverty Law Center. Far more of my time and effort goes towards those who need the most help: the minorities who suffer most at the hands of our society. That would be people of color. But it really makes me angry to see people who are anti-semitic get a pass on their bad behavior. It should be condemned by everyone.

Link...http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/15/us/student-coalition-at-stanford-confronts-allegations-of-anti-semitism.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

AGBF

 

[movie zombie]

Annette, I have no doubt you had an impact!

 

[AGBF]

Annette, I have no doubt you had an impact!

MZ-

I am not sure what this means!

Deb

 

[movie zombie]

Annette, I have no doubt you had an impact!

MZ-

I am not sure what this means!

Deb

lol, teach me to post late and not realize i'd already stated the same thing two years ago..........my bad but if you go back in the thread you'll see what I mean........

 

[AGBF]

Gotcha!

Deb

 

[AGBF]

I just saw a report alleging that Tianay Pulphus, the president of the Stanford chapter of the N.A.A.C.P, called Ms. Horwitz' charge of anti-semitism, "baseless". I shall be writing to the NAACP about that to see what they have to say about the accusation that they ignored what I see as blatant anti-semitism. I know that the Southern Poverty Law Center is a staunch opponent of anti-semitism. I hope that I will never hear such a charge against them.

Link...http://www.thedp.com/article/2015/04/stanford-student-coalition-accused-of-anti-semitism

Deb/AGBF

 

[AGBF]

Follow-up letter by Molly Horvitz from the Stanford newspaper describing the incident. I had not seen this before.

Link...http://www.stanforddaily.com/2015/04/13/if-i-am-not-for-myself-who-will-be-for-me/

AGBF

 

[missy]

Thank you for sharing this Deb. Prejudice and intolerance exists everywhere unfortunately. If you are in the minority, if you are perceived as different or a threat for whatever reason and you are at risk. The Jewish people have dealt with discrimination since the beginning of time and will probably always deal with it just like other minorities. We are all in this together and of course I hope with education comes knowledge, intelligence and tolerance and the death of ignorance and hate but that is just a dream I am not sure will ever be fully realized. We can just do the best we can do to erase hate and intolerance from this world and hope that one day that dream will come true.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007392

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)


and for those who don't like clicking onto links here is the link Deb shared in her most recent post.

http://www.stanforddaily.com/2015/04/13/if-i-am-not-for-myself-who-will-be-for-me/

If I am not for myself, who will be for me?

I am both a woman of color and a Jew. For much of my life, I struggled to embrace these identities. In high school people told me I was “not a real Latina” while also claiming it was my Hispanic ethnicity that got me into Stanford. I felt both not Hispanic enough and too Hispanic. I was also faced with anti-Semitic comments that made me variously cling to and deny my Jewish identity. Some people would say I didn’t “look Jewish;” others made remarks alluding to the stereotype that Jews are obsessed with money.

The anti-Semitism I faced growing up showed me the necessity of taking pride in my heritage, but at the same time it sometimes made me afraid to say I was Jewish.

It was wonderful to join the accepting Stanford community, a community in which I finally felt understood. The diversity of this community allowed me to explore and embrace all aspects of my identity. I am now proud to call myself a Latina and a Jew.

But I know many Stanford students grapple with the same issues as I did. I feel my experience as a member of two different oppressed minority groups — Jews and Hispanics — gives me unique insight into the challenges students of color face at Stanford. I want to help other students of color on their journeys. I decided to run for Stanford Senate primarily to address issues I saw in Stanford’s mental health-care system.

One of these issues is a lack of diversity among counselors at Counseling and Psychological Services (CAPS). I was quite excited to seek the Students of Color Coalition (SOCC) endorsement because I felt that my Senate candidacy and SOCC had many goals in common. I was ready to work with SOCC.


SOCC decided to grant me an interview. The interview was held on Friday, March 13, 2015, in the basement of the Native American Community Center. I entered the room apprehensive but hopeful. I would leave it shocked and devastated.


Across from me in the room sat eight members of SOCC, who took notes throughout the interview. Part way through the lead interviewer asked me, “Given your strong Jewish identity, how would you vote on divestment?” I couldn’t quite process that I had actually been asked this question. Did me being Jewish mean I wasn’t qualified to serve on Senate? Did SOCC doubt my commitment to serving students of color on the basis that I am Jewish? Somewhat stunned, I asked for clarification.

The SOCC interviewer responded that she had noticed I talked about my Jewish identity in the application and was wondering how this would affect my decision on divestment.
I wanted to cry. I had spent so much time trying to move past the fear that I was not Latina enough, that I was not Jewish enough, that I was too Jewish, that I was too Latina, that I couldn’t be both Jewish and Latina, that my identities were in conflict. Did SOCC think my being Jewish compromised my ability to serve on the Senate?


I responded honestly. I told SOCC I was upset that the Senate had voted for divestment, but that regardless I was proud of the democratic nature of the vote. I explained that the vote had confirmed for me that Stanford students want peace in the Middle East, even if we disagree on how to get there.


The rest of the interview was a blur to me. I barely kept it together. As soon as I left the interview room I began shaking and hyperventilating. I replayed the incident over and over in my mind. If SOCC had wanted to know how I felt about divestment, they could have asked that. What made me so distressed was not that SOCC had asked me about divestment, but that they had thought my Jewishness might make me a poor Senator. There are Jews who support divestment, there are Jews who do not take a position and there are Jews who are against divestment. My involvement in Hillel, my praying in synagogue, my love of the Hebrew language, my study of Talmud, my celebration of Rosh Hashanah and Hannukah and Purim and Passover have nothing to do with divestment.


I know there is no way to prove my allegations. But I have no reason for lying. I really wish that this had not happened. But it did. I would not have gone through the trouble of reaching out to Sajjan Sri-Kumar, the Elections Commissioner, or Nanci Howe, the Associate Dean of Students and Director of Student Activities and Leadership, or the Anti-Defamation League or the Stanford Review, over something that did not happen.

Reliving this experience again and again for various officials and organizations has been incredibly hurtful. I take this very seriously. I know my allegations are serious. I debated whether I should come forward with this for a while.

Ultimately, I decided it is important for me to address inequality and discrimination wherever it occurs. I have nothing against SOCC. In fact, I appreciate their goal of working for disadvantaged minority communities at Stanford.

I just wish they would recognize that Jewish students are one such community. I hope SOCC can recognize that what they asked me was wrong. I hope SOCC will apologize and work to address the needs of Jewish students, as well as other minority students.
Molly Horwitz ’16

 

[AGBF]

Thank you for your response, missy. It was thoughtful, as usual. I wanted to share that I had written a letter (the kind one prints out and send by U.S. mail) to Marshall Taylor, Esquire, who was listed among the Senior Staff of the NAACP on their national website. I chose him because he had ties to California. I told him of my longtime membership in both the NAACP and the Southern Poverty Law Center and that I did not believe the charge of anti-semitism by Miss Horvitz should be dismissed as baseless. I said that if racism had been charged to have taken place behind closed doors that the NAACP would not have been quick to dismiss it.

Thank you again for your support.

Deb/AGBF

 

[missy]

Deb, I meant to post this ages ago and then I just forgot. Better late than never though...
(I hope I didn't already post this lol. If I did I am sorry. I need more sleep! )

http://tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/180382/students-justice-palestine

To the Students for Justice in Palestine, a Letter From an Angry Black Woman
‘You do not have the right to invoke my people’s struggle for your shoddy purposes’
By Chloe Valdary


The student organization Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) is prominent on many college campuses, preaching a mantra of “Freeing Palestine.” It masquerades as though it were a civil rights group when it is not. Indeed, as an African-American, I am highly insulted that my people’s legacy is being pilfered for such a repugnant agenda. It is thus high time to expose its agenda and lay bare some of the fallacies they peddle.

• If you seek to promulgate the legacy of early Islamic colonialists who raped and pillaged the Middle East, subjugated the indigenous peoples living in the region, and foisted upon them a life of persecution and degradation—you do not get to claim the title of “Freedom Fighter.”

• If you support a racist doctrine of Arab supremacism and wish (as a corollary of that doctrine) to destroy the Jewish state, you do not get to claim that the prejudices you peddle are forms of legitimate “resistance.”

• If your heroes are clerics who sit in Gaza plotting the genocide of a people; who place their children on rooftops in the hopes they will get blown to bits; who heap praises upon their fellow gang members when they succeed in murdering Jewish school boys and bombing places of activity where Jews congregate—you do not get to claim that you are some Apollonian advocate of human virtue. You are not.

• If your activities include grieving over the woefully incompetent performance by Hamas rocketeers and the subsequent millions of Jewish souls who are still alive—whose children were not murdered by their rockets; whose limbs were not torn from them; and whose disembowelment did not come into fruition—you do not get to claim that you stand for justice. You profess to be irreproachable. You are categorically not.

• If your idea of a righteous cause entails targeting and intimidating Jewish students on campus, arrogating their history of exile-and-return and fashioning it in your own likeness you do not get to claim that you do so in the name of civil liberty and freedom of expression.

• You do not get to champion regimes that murder, torture, and persecute their own people, deliberately keep them impoverished, and embezzle billions of dollar from them—and claim you are “pro-Arab.” You are not.

• You do not get to champion a system wherein Jews are barred from purchasing land, traveling in certain areas, and living out such an existence merely because they are Jews—and claim that you are promoting equality for all. You do not get to enable that system by pushing a boycott of Jewish owned businesses, shops, and entities—and then claim that you are “against apartheid.” That is evil.

• You do not get to justify the calculated and deliberate bombings, beatings, and lynchings of Jewish men, women, and children by referring to such heinous occurrences as part of a noble “uprising” of the oppressed—that is racism. It is evil.

• You do not get to pretend as though you and Rosa Parks would have been great buddies in the 1960s. Rosa Parks was a real Freedom Fighter. Rosa Parks was a Zionist.

Coretta Scott King was a Zionist.

A. Phillip Randolph was a Zionist.

Bayard Rustin was a Zionist.

Count Basie was a Zionist.

Dr. Martin Luther King Sr. was a Zionist.

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was a Zionist.

Indeed, they and many more men and women signed a letter in 1975 that stated: “We condemn the anti-Jewish blacklist. We have fought too long and too hard to root out discrimination from our land to sit idly while foreign interests import bigotry to America. Having suffered so greatly from such prejudice, we consider most repugnant the efforts by Arab states to use the economic power of their newly-acquired oil wealth to boycott business firms that deal with Israel or that have Jewish owners, directors, or executives, and to impose anti-Jewish preconditions for investments in this country.”

You see, my people have always been Zionists because my people have always stood for the freedom of the oppressed. So, you most certainly do not get to culturally appropriate my people’s history for your own. You do not have the right to invoke my people’s struggle for your shoddy purposes and you do not get to feign victimhood in our name. You do not have the right to slander my people’s good name and link your cause to that of Dr. King’s. Our two causes are diametrically opposed to each other.

Your cause is the antithesis of freedom. It has cost hundreds of thousands of lives of both Arabs and Jews. It has separated these peoples, and has fomented animosity between them. It has led to heartache, torment, death and destruction.

It is of course your prerogative to continue to utilize platitudes for your cause. You are entirely within your rights to chant words like “equality” “justice” and “freedom fighter.”

You can keep using those words for as long as you like. But I do not think you know what they mean.

***

 

[Fabulous50]

Missy, thanks for posting that - it gave me chills! As a Jew living in NYC, I haven't witnessed a lot of anti-semitism personally, but what I read about in the news frightens me so much because the patterns just seem to keep repeating.

 

[arkieb1]

I dated a Jewish Boy many years ago we are very lucky in Australia generally there is very little Antisemitism here, having said that we do follow world patterns and this is an interesting read;

http://www.mamamia.com.au/news/anti-semitism-australia/

Have you seen the movie The Boy in the Striped Pajamas as something different but thought provoking.

I married a man whose father was German/Polish and was brainwashed as part of the Hilter Youth Movement. My husband who was born in Australia and I have visited concentration camps in German and in Poland - which was very very sad. We described them in detail to my father in law who denies that they existed. He is not a bad man or a particularly racist man but it's like that part of his mind has been shut off to accept the reality of what occurred because of the version of history he grew up with.

I think when people believe in their own versions of history or at least the versions that they have been indoctrinated to believe in and those beliefs or the ideology itself becomes larger than actual reality, people can justify doing anything for a their cause. This is very sad to me.

 

[asscherisme]

Oh, goodness--anti-semitism is certainly alive and well where I live. I've experienced anti-semitism in all of the secular jobs I've held, from colleagues and students alike. In fact, I can no longer count the anti-semitic things I've heard my students say.

wow, I am really sorry to hear this. I am happy to say that I have never seen anti-semitism.

I have to say that if you are not tuned to it you may not notice it. It can be subtle and insidious. I was pretty sheltered regarding this until I became more aware. In the news we are made more aware of racism of other kinds whereas anti semitism is rarely brought up. But it still exists very strongly in many areas and countries.

I agree with you, Missy. It's also difficult to spot such things when you aren't a member of the targeted group.

Unfortunately, I can confirm anti-semitism is very much alive where I live in the U.S. I have experience it, and unfortunately my kids have experienced it on MULTIPLE occasions at school and outside school. Too many to count. To the point where I have had to get schools involved. Sometimes its taken seriously, sometimes its brushed off. It seems to be treated based on the bias or non-bias of the officials in charge.

I 100% agree with the statement that if you are not the targeted group, often you don't notice it.

I also can see how things are getting worse in France. Honestly, I see MORE anti-semitism now and my kids see more than I did growing up.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I must have missed this before, but YES, I definitely see anti-semitism on the rise particularly from certain middle eastern groups that aim at destroying Jews and Christians. There is massacre of Christians occurring right now in parts of the middle east but little is said about it. I totally understand Israel's need to defend against their enemies whose sole aim is to destroy Israel totally. Just in recent days I have seen leaders in Iran say that their intent is for Israel to be wiped off the map in less than 25 years.

 

[chemgirl]

Deb, I meant to post this ages ago and then I just forgot. Better late than never though...
(I hope I didn't already post this lol. If I did I am sorry. I need more sleep! )

http://tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/180382/students-justice-palestine

To the Students for Justice in Palestine, a Letter From an Angry Black Woman
‘You do not have the right to invoke my people’s struggle for your shoddy purposes’
By Chloe Valdary


The student organization Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) is prominent on many college campuses, preaching a mantra of “Freeing Palestine.” It masquerades as though it were a civil rights group when it is not. Indeed, as an African-American, I am highly insulted that my people’s legacy is being pilfered for such a repugnant agenda. It is thus high time to expose its agenda and lay bare some of the fallacies they peddle.

• If you seek to promulgate the legacy of early Islamic colonialists who raped and pillaged the Middle East, subjugated the indigenous peoples living in the region, and foisted upon them a life of persecution and degradation—you do not get to claim the title of “Freedom Fighter.”

• If you support a racist doctrine of Arab supremacism and wish (as a corollary of that doctrine) to destroy the Jewish state, you do not get to claim that the prejudices you peddle are forms of legitimate “resistance.”

• If your heroes are clerics who sit in Gaza plotting the genocide of a people; who place their children on rooftops in the hopes they will get blown to bits; who heap praises upon their fellow gang members when they succeed in murdering Jewish school boys and bombing places of activity where Jews congregate—you do not get to claim that you are some Apollonian advocate of human virtue. You are not.

• If your activities include grieving over the woefully incompetent performance by Hamas rocketeers and the subsequent millions of Jewish souls who are still alive—whose children were not murdered by their rockets; whose limbs were not torn from them; and whose disembowelment did not come into fruition—you do not get to claim that you stand for justice. You profess to be irreproachable. You are categorically not.

• If your idea of a righteous cause entails targeting and intimidating Jewish students on campus, arrogating their history of exile-and-return and fashioning it in your own likeness you do not get to claim that you do so in the name of civil liberty and freedom of expression.

• You do not get to champion regimes that murder, torture, and persecute their own people, deliberately keep them impoverished, and embezzle billions of dollar from them—and claim you are “pro-Arab.” You are not.

• You do not get to champion a system wherein Jews are barred from purchasing land, traveling in certain areas, and living out such an existence merely because they are Jews—and claim that you are promoting equality for all. You do not get to enable that system by pushing a boycott of Jewish owned businesses, shops, and entities—and then claim that you are “against apartheid.” That is evil.

• You do not get to justify the calculated and deliberate bombings, beatings, and lynchings of Jewish men, women, and children by referring to such heinous occurrences as part of a noble “uprising” of the oppressed—that is racism. It is evil.

• You do not get to pretend as though you and Rosa Parks would have been great buddies in the 1960s. Rosa Parks was a real Freedom Fighter. Rosa Parks was a Zionist.

Coretta Scott King was a Zionist.

A. Phillip Randolph was a Zionist.

Bayard Rustin was a Zionist.

Count Basie was a Zionist.

Dr. Martin Luther King Sr. was a Zionist.

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was a Zionist.

Indeed, they and many more men and women signed a letter in 1975 that stated: “We condemn the anti-Jewish blacklist. We have fought too long and too hard to root out discrimination from our land to sit idly while foreign interests import bigotry to America. Having suffered so greatly from such prejudice, we consider most repugnant the efforts by Arab states to use the economic power of their newly-acquired oil wealth to boycott business firms that deal with Israel or that have Jewish owners, directors, or executives, and to impose anti-Jewish preconditions for investments in this country.”

You see, my people have always been Zionists because my people have always stood for the freedom of the oppressed. So, you most certainly do not get to culturally appropriate my people’s history for your own. You do not have the right to invoke my people’s struggle for your shoddy purposes and you do not get to feign victimhood in our name. You do not have the right to slander my people’s good name and link your cause to that of Dr. King’s. Our two causes are diametrically opposed to each other.

Your cause is the antithesis of freedom. It has cost hundreds of thousands of lives of both Arabs and Jews. It has separated these peoples, and has fomented animosity between them. It has led to heartache, torment, death and destruction.

It is of course your prerogative to continue to utilize platitudes for your cause. You are entirely within your rights to chant words like “equality” “justice” and “freedom fighter.”

You can keep using those words for as long as you like. But I do not think you know what they mean.

***

I'm probably totally missing the point here, but this letter struck a nerve with me. This rant is probably going to come out all wrong and I apologize in advance.

I'm in a strange position as my ex is Jewish (and very vocal Zionist), but my best friend is Palestinian.

My best friend always acted warm and friendly with the ex. She made sure to invite both of us to everything. She never once brought up politics, her home, her family, anything that could be a controversial topic.

She grew up in Palestine and is deeply affected by her childhood. Nobody wants to share a room with her when we go on group vacations because every time she hears a car, or footsteps, or anything era while she's sleeping she panics and starts kicking and screaming. She makes sure never to sleep on an airplane because she doesn't to start screaming mid flight. Once we were in class together and a new teacher walked in. He was Jewish and she started shaking and had to leave the room. She was convinced he was going to fail her because she's Palestinian and then she would get kicked out if school. Nothing I said could convince her that this is Canada and a teacher can't fail you based on race. She's also insanely secretive about everything. We talk nearly every day and I usually find out about important life events accidentally.

Basically she grew up in conflict and has some sort of anxiety disorder because of it. But that's the thing. There are so many kids dealing with this on a daily basis. When I asked her what outcome she would like to see with this conflict and her response is she wants to be able to go home and have it he like Canada. She wants her grandparents to retire knowing their house is safe and nobody can take their property. She wants to be able to send her kids to school knowing that they will come home at the end of the day.

Ultimately my friendship caused the end of my relationship with Zionist guy. I sincerely wanted to learn about his point of view. He brought me to some Zionist Club meetings at our University and I was apaled at what they were teaching. A member, when talkinf about Palestinians, actually joked about "rounding them all up and shooting them". People cheered. This was a University sponsored group promoting hate on campus. When I turned to my boyfriend and said " Seriously?" the room got quiet and several people accused me of making an antisemetic comment. But I really fail to see how a group who has been so persecuted can promote genocide.

Now I know not every Palestinian is like my friend, and I know this University Zionist Club doesn't represent every Jewish person (or Zionist for that matter).

I feel that extremism on either side is a mistake and that we should always be allowed to question violence without being accused of anything.

 

[kenny]

No country is perfect, even my own beloved America.
Self interest of powerful countries sometimes results in harm to, and exploitation of, other weaker countries/peoples.

Unfortunately when Israel does things that are wrong anyone pointing it out is sometimes accused of being anti-semetic.
Not true.

No country is special, has carte-blanche, or is above criticism, even one who's main export is the most popular religions in the world ... even one who's creation is arguably related to the most horrendous holocaust the earth has ever seen.

I realize that just posting this will result a few (unfairly) placing me in their anti-semetic jar. ...and that is exactly why so few people will discuss anything related to Israel.

 

[kenny]

I meant to add that lack of discussion feeds the intractability of the conflict.

 

[missy]

Fabulous50,yes it gives me chills too. It is alive and well unfortunately.

arkieb, I hated that movie. So depressing. These days I cannot watch movies that are so heartbreaking. It just takes so much out of me lately.

Thanks for posting that link. I will check it out. Australia is one of the places I am yearning to go that I have not yet visited and it is on my list of places to visit when we start traveling again. It's so beautiful there.

I agree with you. People can justify anything in their own minds. Whether from fact or fiction and it is terribly sad.

asscherisme, I am sorry it is affecting you and your children and that your children are experiencing something so ugly and hateful. What is upsetting is it can be insidious and then people don't think it is really happening. Yeah it is.

diamondseeker, thanks for posting.It is horrible what is happening. As you pointed out to christians and jews alike. The massacre of so many innocent people. So scary to me that some influential people in Iran and of course Hamas want the total destruction of Israel and yet some people think these people full of extremism and intolerance and hatred can actually be reasoned with. I mean various political groups/leaders *have* been trying to no avail. One cannot reason with crazy IMO.


Chemgirl, I'm sorry you went through that and I'm sorry your friend had such a tough and traumatic childhood. I think most of us would agree that extremism of any kind is usually not a good thing. And I also agree violence should always be the last resort. I also think most of us would agree that it is usually not individuals who cannot get along but more so groups espousing extreme ideas that preach hate and intolerance. We have a very close friend who is Palestinian and we love him and he loves us. He has nothing to do with those who want the destruction of Israel and the death of all Jews. I never judge a person by where they come from, what religion they might or might not believe in, what their sexual preference is, what gender they are etc... No, it is who you are that matters so it is always on an individual basis and I have no preconceived ideas before I meet someone. Wouldn't it be lovely if everyone was like that?

That letter I posted I agree with 100% and it hit a nerve for me too because I agree completely with the author.

Kenny, you are right. I don't agree with much of the USA's politics but I am glad and proud to be an American despite that fact though I know many people not from here might not understand that. Though I don't agree with all of the USA's policies I am happy to be an American. I also agree Israel is not perfect and just because you and I might disagree with some of their policies does not make us anti semitic. Just like our disagreeing with some of the US policies does not make us unpatriotic. From my POV much of what Israel does they have to do for survival. Pure and simple. There are many who want Israel destroyed and all Jewish people killed. There is no arguing with that fact IMO. It just is a fact.

I also agree talking about things is the only way to move forward. One cannot be afraid to share their feelings and thoughts because it is the only way we can learn from one another and make progress.

 

[chemgirl]

Still so incensed by that letter!

I have never seen anyone experience prejudice like my Palestinian friend.

She recently left her job because she was being harassed by a Zionist coworker. It got to the point that other employees were recording it. I didn't even find out about it from her, she just quietly left her job and told me she was working somewhere else.

She wouldn't use the video because "what's the point?". She didn't think anyone would side with her anyway so why bother.

There are news articles painting all Palestinians with the same brush. Even articles that hint to innocent bystanders make it sound like they are stockpiling weapons or hiding militants etc. And yes, I'm sure that happens, but I'm also know there are many people like my friend who are terrified, beaten down, and just want to be left alone.

Eta: Missy i just saw your post. This is such a complex issues and I think there is truth to the letter, but I guess I feel it is one sided?. I have seen too many people do and say horrible things and hide behind Zionism like it is a shield. At this point it is a trigger for me and I recognize that I get more upset than I probably should.

 

[missy]

Just updating this thread. Anti Semitism is alive and well and now a presidential candidate is blatantly showing his true colors because he thinks that hate attracts more than acceptance. His main theme throughout his candidacy IMO.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/is-this-anti-semitic.223991/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/is-this-anti-semitic.223991/[/URL]


Kenny hope it's OK for me to share your wise post here in another thread.

... and what does this say about America?
... that a presidential candidate expects to gain more votes than he loses by being anti-semitic?

It's 1930s Germany all over again.
History is repeating.

And just going to add to this thread the recent death of Elie Wiesel.
A great man and a great loss. May the world never forget him and his legacy.
He was a global symbol for peace.

"The question is, will the world ever learn?"

We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.
The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.

RIP Elie Wiesel.

 

[Jambalaya]

I completely agree that anti-Semitism is alive and well, as is sexism, racism, homophobia, and prejudice against people who are disabled, obese, or old. There are many, many bigoted people in the world, and I've always been of the opinion that because outward bigotry is unacceptable in our society, there's a lot that certain people think, but don't say. In other words, scratch the surface, and it's there. I was talking to a very attractive African-American girl once who had worked as a host in a nice hotel restaurant, and she said many of her interactions with the public had a racial overtone. Sadly, I was not at all surprised. I also know people - mostly white middle-age men - who really seem to think that racism and sexism has been beaten in our society, and I just think, "You have no idea. Try being an African-American woman for a week."

The fact that Trump is going to be the nominee, just shows what so many people are really thinking. It is just terrible. I don't expect everyone to be the incarnation of kindness and acceptance, but seriously, there seems to be swaths and swaths of people who have no tolerance, whatsoever, for anyone who's even slightly different from themselves. It's really worrying.

 

[Scandinavian]

I wish the world would read The Diary of Anne Frank. I have visited some of the concentration camps. It is awful and beyond words.

 

[Jambalaya]

I've read it, but many years ago so my memories of it are a bit fuzzy. But I do remember how abruptly it ended, in midstream. (Because, of course, she was captured.) Gives me shivers to remember that.

 

[AGBF]

I have seen too many people do and say horrible things and hide behind Zionism like it is a shield. At this point it is a trigger for me and I recognize that I get more upset than I probably should.

I have something in common with you, chemgirl. I am not close to a Palestinian, but I have both Jews and a Muslim among my closest family members. It helps to remind me about the essential qualities that humans share.

AGBF

 

[missy]

I have seen too many people do and say horrible things and hide behind Zionism like it is a shield. At this point it is a trigger for me and I recognize that I get more upset than I probably should.

I have something in common with you, chemgirl. I am not close to a Palestinian, but I have both Jews and a Muslim among my closest family members. It helps to remind me about the essential qualities that humans share.

AGBF

We also have good friends of both backgrounds including Palestinians and Muslims and yes of course we all share much in common. However the extremists on all sides are not rational and when one group(s) call for the extermination of a whole religion and a whole country I am not sure how one manages to rationalize that.

Kill all Jews and annihilate Israel is the message of these terrorists and they know no compromise. They only have hate and terror and murder in their hearts.

IMO the Israelis are doing what they can to survive. They have to fight fire with fire because you cannot deal with the insanity that is the hate and extreme desire to annihilate a whole people.

Here is an interesting piece from almost 2 years ago.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/236197/israel-victim-mohammeds-war-against-jews-daniel-greenfield

Hamas isn’t shooting rockets at the Jews because of persecution, isolation or occupation. The Sunni Islamic terrorist group is doing it for the same reason that Sunnis and Shiites are killing each other in Iraq and Syria. And why its Muslim Brotherhood core group is killing Christians in Egypt.

To understand why, let’s step into a time machine and go back to the spring of 632. The Byzantine Emperor Heraclius is engaged in the first of a series of wars with Mohammed’s maddened followers. England is divided into seven quarreling kingdoms. Across the water, the Merovingians are killing each other in ways that would give George R.R. Martin nightmares. Meanwhile in a more civilized part of the world, China’s fading Sui Dynasty fields an army of over a million men in a failed effort to invade Korea.

Back in Medina, Mohammed had come down with the sniffles. He had a fever and a headache and there wasn’t any Tylenol around for miles. Mohammed hadn’t been a very good man and he made a very bad patient. Upon being told that he had pleurisy, he claimed that only people possessed by Satan came down with that disease so he couldn’t possibly have it and instead blamed the Jews for poisoning him.

His own homemade cures, such as bathing in seven skins of water from seven different wells, didn’t help. But before he died, he managed to make the Middle East an even worse place by ordering the ethnic cleansing of Jews and Christians.

“Two deens (religions) shall not co-exist in the Arabian Peninsula,” Mohammed declared. “If I live, if Allah wills, I will expel the Jews and the Christians from the Arabian Peninsula.”

There could be only one.

Mohammed didn’t live, but that didn’t matter. His bigotry had long ago been coded into the theological DNA of Islam. Islam isn’t built on matters of the spirit, but the sword. Its theological proof is in the Muslim supremacist subjugation of non-Muslims.

The Bible begins with the creation of the universe. The Koran starts off with curses and threats aimed at non-Muslims and Muslims who aren’t Muslim enough. There is no greater contrast between the sublime and the tawdry than G-d creating the universe and Allah yelling at his followers like a frustrated fishwife with a bad temper.

Over a thousand years later, Muslims are still killing each other, along with Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and countless others, to prove that their flavor of Islam is right and everyone else’s religion is wrong.

Theological consensus can only be achieved by the suicide bomber, the sniper, the Sarin nerve gas shell and the death squad. If England and France have come a long way since then, the Middle East hasn’t. Mohammed’s way or the highway is still the rule of the road. And Mohammed’s way is whatever the man with the most guns and Korans says it is.

Destroying Israel has nothing to do with the so-called plight of the so-called Palestinians. They weren’t an issue in June 632. It was about oppressing and killing Jews then. It’s about the same thing now.

Israel’s critics start the historical record in 1948 while insisting that before that everyone lived in peace. They zoom in on a country that could be dropped into New Jersey without inconveniencing Jersey Shore surfers while ignoring all the Muslims around it killing each other and any surviving non-Muslims that still haven’t run away.

The truth about what is happening in Israel becomes obvious if you pull back to take in Lebanon, Syria and Iraq. And after viewing those three bloody battlefields, we can go on a little tour of the region.

In Algeria, Muslims are protesting the possible reopening of a synagogue because it will “Judaize” the country. Most of the synagogues have already been seized and turned into mosques.

In 1994, the Armed Islamic Group vowed to eliminate Jews, Christians and other non-Muslims whom it accused of “colonizing” Algeria. That same year it met with Bin Laden. Its plot to crash an Air France jet on Christmas Eve into the Eiffel Tower was said to have inspired September 11.

Over 1,300 years after Mohammed called for the ethnic cleansing of Jews and Christians, Muslims were still carrying out his will.



In Yemen, a handful of Jews still live in a ghetto. Between a third and two-thirds had already died in the 17th century after they were ethnically cleansed due to yet another deathbed decree from an Islamic leader. The dying Imam Isma'il based this on Mohammed’s original ethnic cleansing Hadith from 632.

Events like these were and are the normal course of life for Jews under the shadow of Mohammed.

Hamas is not firing rockets at Jews because of some tricky bit of territory that can be swapped at the negotiating table. Its charter, like the Koran, begins by cursing the Jews. It declares that “Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it”.

Not Palestine, Islam. Not the 1948 territories, but everything. Article Seven envisions an end times genocide that will entirely eliminate the Jews. “The Jews hide behind trees and stones, and each tree and stone will say: 'Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.'”

The source of that is not some distressed refugee from Gaza. It’s another ancient Islamic Hadith.

Ignorance of history is the greatest ally of Islamic terror.

The rockets falling on Jews are only the latest phase in an ongoing campaign of ethnic cleansing by Muslim colonists against the indigenous peoples of the Middle East. It’s a campaign that long predates any territorial debates about the West Bank and Gaza.

The same is true of September 11 and 7/7, both of which emerged from an Islamic theocratic worldview rooted in the seventh century that predates the United States and the United Kingdom. The causes of Islamic terror are not rooted in the recent present, but the ancient past.

And it is this past and its burden of bigotry that we are fighting.

The world has changed a great deal since June 632, but the Middle East hasn’t. The armies of Islamic raiders have traded camels and horses for pickup trucks. They recite their boasts over Twitter and share their grisly trophies using smartphones. But the fundamental attitude that drives their violence has been preserved in museum quality terror.

Israel’s critics are at war with context. They want to talk about Gaza, not Hamas. They don’t want to talk about the worldwide Muslim Brotherhood which Hamas is part of. They don’t want to talk about the Muslim Brotherhood’s invasion of Israel in 1948. They don’t want to address the Muslim Brotherhood’s declaration that “Jews are the historic enemies of Muslims”. Or its Secretary General’s statement that “Every Jew is a Zionist… the Zionist question is but a Jewish question with all that the word entails.”

"Would they (Muslims) fight the Jews as he had fought them and eject them from the Holy Land... as their ancestors had ejected them from the Arab Peninsula?"Secretary General Salih Ashmawi asked.

Once again everything returned to Mohammed’s original sin of ethnic cleansing.

Instead of pretending that a few territorial concessions by Jews to the regional Sunni Muslim majority will change anything, we have to address the political and religious territories of 632. Unless Muslims reject that ugly act of ethnic cleansing, their cycle of supremacist violence against Jews and Christians will continue.

I wish the world would read The Diary of Anne Frank. I have visited some of the concentration camps. It is awful and beyond words.

I've read it, but many years ago so my memories of it are a bit fuzzy. But I do remember how abruptly it ended, in midstream. (Because, of course, she was captured.) Gives me shivers to remember that.

Yes a powerful account of a little girl's short life during a dark period in history. A period some/many? are still denying and soon with most of the Holocaust survivors gone I wonder how much will be remembered by others. It is unfathomable to understand how much hate still exists in the world today against people for just being a different religion, nationality, race, gender and gender identity, sexual preference. The list goes on and on. Bigotry has no limits and the people who hate have no boundaries. Hard to rationalize a hate so intense and so strong and hard to fight against it even when one's very survival depends upon it.

 

[redwood66]

I wish the world would read The Diary of Anne Frank. I have visited some of the concentration camps. It is awful and beyond words.

I have also stood in front of the ovens at Dachau and it is still the most sobering moment in my life. People should never forget or be allowed to forget the horror committed by lunatics.

 

[missy]

Just updating this thread with a few new recent developments. Oh how far we have (not) come.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/atrocities-1939-and-2017.228357/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/atrocities-1939-and-2017.228357/[/URL]

The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum released a statement Monday afternoon shortly after White House press secretary Sean Spicer defended the fact that President Trump’s International Holocaust Remembrance Day statement did not mention Jews or anti-Semitism.


"The Holocaust was the systematic, state-sponsored murder of six million Jews by Nazi Germany and its collaborators. Nazi ideology cast the world as a racial struggle, and the singular focus on the total destruction of every Jewish person was at its racist core. Millions of other innocent civilians were persecuted and murdered by the Nazis, but the elimination of Jews was central to Nazi policy. As Elie Wiesel said, 'Not all victims were Jews, but all Jews were victims,'” the museum wrote in its statement.

"The Holocaust teaches us profound truths about human societies and our capacity for evil. An accurate understanding of this history is critical if we are to learn its lessons and honor its victims.”

"“The Final Solution was aimed solely at the Jews,” Mr. Podhoretz wrote, while acknowledging other groups were also killed by the Nazis. “To universalize it to ‘all those who suffered’ is to scrub the Holocaust of its meaning.”"

"This is what Holocaust denial is,” Mr. Kaine said on “Meet the Press.”

 

[asscherisme]

Just updating this thread with a few new recent developments. Oh how far we have (not) come.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/atrocities-1939-and-2017.228357/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/atrocities-1939-and-2017.228357/[/URL]

The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum released a statement Monday afternoon shortly after White House press secretary Sean Spicer defended the fact that President Trump’s International Holocaust Remembrance Day statement did not mention Jews or anti-Semitism.


"The Holocaust was the systematic, state-sponsored murder of six million Jews by Nazi Germany and its collaborators. Nazi ideology cast the world as a racial struggle, and the singular focus on the total destruction of every Jewish person was at its racist core. Millions of other innocent civilians were persecuted and murdered by the Nazis, but the elimination of Jews was central to Nazi policy. As Elie Wiesel said, 'Not all victims were Jews, but all Jews were victims,'” the museum wrote in its statement.

"The Holocaust teaches us profound truths about human societies and our capacity for evil. An accurate understanding of this history is critical if we are to learn its lessons and honor its victims.”

"“The Final Solution was aimed solely at the Jews,” Mr. Podhoretz wrote, while acknowledging other groups were also killed by the Nazis. “To universalize it to ‘all those who suffered’ is to scrub the Holocaust of its meaning.”"

"This is what Holocaust denial is,” Mr. Kaine said on “Meet the Press.”

Thank you for posting this. I was talking about this with my kids at dinner last night. My son says to me "Mom, I think the reason that I am so angry about the Muslim ban is because of our own history." He and I were looking at the news together and what struck him and made him emotional was a few signs he saw that said "Jews in support of Muslims". What is happening right now in our country is terrifying. If my grandparents were sent back from where they came from they would have most likely been killed by the Nazis. Words don't describe how awful this is. I wonder how history will look on this. As an aside, I don't think Trump has any idea how the constitution works. This is not a dictatorship.

 

[missy]

Today is Holocaust Remembrance Day.

From Yoram's page on IG. This was very moving.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bw7rANHhfZf_aivm5FmfbTuWU1eq2U0yeRMtGg0/

We are here three generations later. Our kids walk this historic graveyard with our home flags where we lost most of our family roots only 70 years ago.
Never-again we have been chanting for decades but the current generations of the world seem to have forgotten....
Today we have a home called Israel, we have a army made of our own children watching over us and making sure such atrocities never happen again. Only our children can guarantee our safety.
Today is Yom haShoah (or Holocaust Memorial Day) in international language.
~~~~~~never again~~~~~~

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/05/01/world/middleeast/ap-ml-israel-holocaust.html

Israel Marks Holocaust Remembrance Day With Solemn Ceremony

• May 1, 2019

JERUSALEM — Israel ushered in its Holocaust Remembrance Day on Wednesday in memory of the 6 million Jews killed by Nazi Germany and its collaborators in World War II, as leaders voiced concerns about a rising tide of anti-Semitism worldwide.

In moving speeches to hundreds of Israeli politicians and Holocaust survivors at the country's national Holocaust memorial, Israel's ceremonial president warned the government against warming up to far-right parties in Europe, while Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu pointed to last weekend's deadly synagogue shooting in San Diego as evidence of growing anti-Semitic hatred.

The 24-hour remembrance period began at sundown with the main ceremony at Jerusalem's Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial, held just hours after Israeli researchers reported that violent attacks against Jews rose significantly last year. This spike, highlighted by the San Diego attack, was most dramatic in western Europe.

President Reuven Rivlin touched on the surging anti-Semitism in Europe, which he said "is once again rearing its head, fueled by waves of immigration, economic crises and disillusionment with the political establishment."

In veiled criticism of Netanyahu, he urged the government to rethink its cultivation of alliances with nationalist parties in Europe.

"Not every right-wing party in Europe that believes in controlling immigration or in protecting its unique character is anti-Semitic or xenophobic," Rivlin said. "But political forces where anti-Semitism and racism are part of their language, their legacy or their ideology can never be our allies."


He added: "No interest and no consideration of realpolitik can justify a dishonorable alliance with racist groups or elements who do not acknowledge their past and their responsibility for the crimes of the Holocaust."

Rivlin did not identify any particular countries. But Netanyahu has come under fire for embracing a string of eastern European leaders who have lavished Israel with political support while promoting a distorted image of the Holocaust and stoking anti-Semitism at home.

A slew of former communist nations whose leaders recently paid their respects at Yad Vashem, such as Hungary, Lithuania and Poland, are swept up in a wave of World War II-era revisionism that seeks to diminish their culpability in the Holocaust while making heroes out of anti-Soviet nationalists involved in the mass killing of Jews. Many in Israel have accused Netanyahu of cynically betraying victims' memories for political gain.

In his remarks, Netanyahu also stressed the continued threat of anti-Semitic extremism. He said that the extreme right, extreme left and radical Islam agree on "one thing: their hatred of Jews."

Netanyahu noted the deadly synagogue shootings in San Diego last weekend and Pittsburgh last October, as well as recurring vandalism at Jewish cemeteries. He also castigated a recent political cartoon in the New York Times' international edition that drew ire for playing on anti-Semitic tropes, saying that hatred of Jews has even worked its way into "respected newspapers" and mainstream views.

"We're not talking about legitimate criticism of Israel," he said, "but of systematic, poisonous and shallow hatred."

In an emotional ritual, six survivors lit torches in memory of the 6 million Jews murdered in the Holocaust. The torchlighters' brutal trials in concentration camps and narratives of endurance reflected this year's theme at Yad Vashem, "The War Within the War: the Struggle of the Jews to Survive During the Holocaust."

This year's theme urges the public to keep alive memories of extraordinary Jewish courage and resilience during World War II -- those who risked their lives in acts of solidarity for fellow Jews, smuggled food, organized rescue missions, published underground newspapers, played Jewish music on contraband instruments and documented their suffering for posterity.

The Holocaust, in which a third of the world's Jews were murdered, runs deep in Israeli public consciousness. The state, engendered in the wake of the genocide in 1948 as a place of refuge for Jews across the world, is filled with Holocaust survivors and their descendants.

Wednesday's event initiated one of the most melancholy holidays on the country's calendar, observed with numerous vigils, ceremonies and gatherings.
Places of entertainment and shops shutter for the evening. TV and radio stations broadcast Holocaust documentaries and interviews with survivors until sundown the next day. The names of those who perished in the genocide are read aloud in parliament.

According to the Hebrew calendar, Holocaust Remembrance Day marks the anniversary of the 1943 Warsaw Ghetto uprising — the most significant, yet doomed, act of Jewish resistance during the Holocaust that helped shape Israel's national psyche, symbolizing strength and the struggle for freedom in the face of annihilation.

On Thursday, Israel's Holocaust remembrance will stop traffic. Israelis come to a two-minute standstill to remember the dead as sirens wails across the country. Pedestrians freeze in their tracks, buses halt on busy streets and cars pull over on highways to honor the legacies of those lost.

http://time.com/5581355/israel-holocaust-remembrance-day/