A new view on Trump

[Tekate]

It was only 52% of the voting and I think the young didn't vote and that was a real shame for the UK. Such a loss of banking for London - house prices will fall because it will not longer be the center of EU banking

52% of the UK wanted things fixed too. They didn't know how or what exactly. Some vague comments about the immigrants stealing jobs and EU spending. So this 52% listened to 2 charismatic men, you know, not your typical politicians but ones who drink, smoke, swear and don't comb their hair. On 23rd June this 52% fixed these things, they went to the polls and voted to leave the EU. No more immigrants, no more stupid EU rules, no more excessive EU spending. You know, we made Britain independent again.

Or something. Our currency plummeted to a 31 year low. Pensions and retirement accounts lost millions. The rest of the EU won't make trade deals with us. The much cited if Norway ("if they can do it, we can too...") pays more money to stay out of the EU, sit in the meetings and yet not have a vote than we do to be part of the EU complete with vote. The regions who wanted out the most actually have the least amount of immigrants and get the most EU funding. Our interest rates were cut. While we can't declare it's a recession until 3 months of official contraction it's probably coming, and with that a lot of job loss and business moving to where it's "safe" in other EU countries.

Learn from us, or the 52% of them actually. I'm sure many more people want it fixed than that, I do. I JUST WANT IT FIXED too. But I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face. I'm not going to vote for people who don't have answers to important questions or question dodge. The immature side of me likes politicians drinking, smoking, swearing and not having combed hair. It is far more personable than prim and proper. But I'm not fooled. They, the politicians, are all wealthy. They're all expensively educated. They all protect their own interests. Change will be slower if we stay with the status quo rather than electing someone very different.

The US, along with many other places, needs some fixing. The reaction though is too emotional, not analytical. The solutions and how they're enacted sound like what a group of friends came up with down the pub over a few beers when they put the world to rights. In the cold light of next day's hangover is what anyone's proposing actually possible?

 

[Calliecake]

While Trump has built a lot of things, he's destroyed many as well. Trump University (hah! what a joke), the Taj Mahal, and numerous other Chapter 11 filings and reorganizations. Try again.

If HC continue with 4 more yrs of Obama policies then our country will need to file for chapter 11. Our country is already 19 trillion in debt...

And what makes you think Trump won't do the same. He filed bankruptcy 6 times with his company. What makes you so sure it won't do the same with our country Dancing Fire? Filing bankruptcy is business as usual for him. He takes advantage of anything that benefits him, then proceeds to brag about all the billions of dollars he has. It's disgusting.

 

[Dancing Fire]

While Trump has built a lot of things, he's destroyed many as well. Trump University (hah! what a joke), the Taj Mahal, and numerous other Chapter 11 filings and reorganizations. Try again.

If HC continue with 4 more yrs of Obama policies then our country will need to file for chapter 11. Our country is already 19 trillion in debt...

And what makes you think Trump won't do the same. He filed bankruptcy 6 times with his company. What makes you so sure it won't do the same with our country Dancing Fire? Filing bankruptcy is business as usual for him. He takes advantage of anything that benefits him, then proceeds to brag about all the billions of dollars he has. It's disgusting.

Lets not talk about the Clinton Foundation...

 

[Dancing Fire]

I don't understand why the Dems have anything to worry about.. b/c at this point Trump is trying very hard NOT to win in Nov.

 

[Tekate]

While Trump has built a lot of things, he's destroyed many as well. Trump University (hah! what a joke), the Taj Mahal, and numerous other Chapter 11 filings and reorganizations. Try again.

If HC continue with 4 more yrs of Obama policies then our country will need to file for chapter 11. Our country is already 19 trillion in debt...

And what makes you think Trump won't do the same. He filed bankruptcy 6 times with his company. What makes you so sure it won't do the same with our country Dancing Fire? Filing bankruptcy is business as usual for him. He takes advantage of anything that benefits him, then proceeds to brag about all the billions of dollars he has. It's disgusting.

Lets not talk about the Clinton Foundation...

Why not? they have nothing to hide.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/06/where-does-clinton-foundation-money-go/

 

[AnnaH]

While Trump has built a lot of things, he's destroyed many as well. Trump University (hah! what a joke), the Taj Mahal, and numerous other Chapter 11 filings and reorganizations. Try again.

If HC continue with 4 more yrs of Obama policies then our country will need to file for chapter 11. Our country is already 19 trillion in debt...

And what makes you think Trump won't do the same. He filed bankruptcy 6 times with his company. What makes you so sure it won't do the same with our country Dancing Fire? Filing bankruptcy is business as usual for him. He takes advantage of anything that benefits him, then proceeds to brag about all the billions of dollars he has. It's disgusting.

Lets not talk about the Clinton Foundation...

Why not? they have nothing to hide.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/06/where-does-clinton-foundation-money-go/

Recent release of more emails suggests that they have hidden unethical dealings between the State Department and the Clinton Foundation. Based on the usual, I don't expect much to come of this, but time will tell. Supposedly there are more deleted emails coming out from Wkileaks.

 

[Tekate]

While Trump has built a lot of things, he's destroyed many as well. Trump University (hah! what a joke), the Taj Mahal, and numerous other Chapter 11 filings and reorganizations. Try again.

If HC continue with 4 more yrs of Obama policies then our country will need to file for chapter 11. Our country is already 19 trillion in debt...

And what makes you think Trump won't do the same. He filed bankruptcy 6 times with his company. What makes you so sure it won't do the same with our country Dancing Fire? Filing bankruptcy is business as usual for him. He takes advantage of anything that benefits him, then proceeds to brag about all the billions of dollars he has. It's disgusting.

Lets not talk about the Clinton Foundation...

Why not? they have nothing to hide.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/06/where-does-clinton-foundation-money-go/

Recent release of more emails suggests that they have hidden unethical dealings between the State Department and the Clinton Foundation. Based on the usual, I don't expect much to come of this, but time will tell. Supposedly there are more deleted emails coming out from Wkileaks.

Well more accurately would be that the republicans are TRYING to IMPLY that something was wrong. I expect something to come of it if there was a quid pro quo but I don't read that in the emails.

 

[redwood66]

If your senior assistant at the state dept. is having anything to do with your foundation I believe that is inappropriate and should be investigated further. She had said from the beginning that there would be a bright line between the two.

 

[AGBF]

If your senior assistant at the state dept. is having anything to do with your foundation I believe that is inappropriate and should be investigated further. She had said from the beginning that there would be a bright line between the two.

redwood-

I would be more inclined to nitpick about this issue if it weren't for other factors in the political arena right now.

When Donald Trump made that statement about "Second Amendmenters" and what they could do about Hillary Clinton, essentially saying that assassination was an option, I thought of some things you had written here. You had said that it was especially bothersome to you to see Secretary Clinton be able to commit acts with e-mail that would have landed your sons in jail (since they had clearance to handle top secret-or similar-material).

I thought of that and considered posting that allowing Donald Trump to make statements like The Second Amendment one about Secretary Clinton when anyone else who did so would have been detained by The Secret Service was similar.

I admit that The First Amendment is sacrosanct. It is, in my opinion, first, and not second, because the founders of our country put it above even the right to bear arms. So I believe in Donald Trump's right to free speech. But I do not think that his speech should be more free than that of any other American. So if another American would have been detained and questioned for that threat to Secretary Clinton, and he would have been, I think that Donald Trump should have been as well.

In conclusion, since Donald Trump is being handled far differently, far more leniently, than ordinary citizens, why should Secretary Clinton be the subject of constant nitpicking?

Deb/AGBF

 

[redwood66]

Donald Trump is an idiot. I read through Gypsy's posts in the other thread and understand quite a bit more about her concerns regarding Donald Trump.

That said corruption in politics irritates me to my core. And I believe the Clintons are at or near the top of a long list of politicians that use public offices to benefit them personally. This means any politicians on both sides. It is the reason they will never vote for term limits. Can you imagine any of them voting for term limits? They are the ones who make the laws and it would be cutting their own throats so it will never happen, even if the people want it. We are helpless because we almost always get the choice of the better of two evils, locally and nationally. If freshmen are not corrupt when they are elected it does not take long to see how it actually works in Washington.

 

[Zlata]

.
...corruption in politics irritates me to my core. And I believe the Clintons are at or near the top of a long list of politicians that use public offices to benefit them personally. This means any politicians on both sides. It is the reason they will never vote for term limits. Can you imagine any of them voting for term limits? They are the ones who make the laws and it would be cutting their own throats so it will never happen, even if the people want it. We are helpless because we almost always get the choice of the better of two evils, locally and nationally. If freshmen are not corrupt when they are elected it does not take long to see how it actually works in Washington.

Redwood, you and I are on opposite sides of the aisle, politically speaking, but I could not agree with you more. I hate political dynasties- the Bushes and Clintons. The average person just doesn't realize how rarefied the air is at that level. (I don’t pretend to fully comprehend either, but do acknowledge it.)

I won't vote for HC because she's a woman. I don't believe she didn't divorce BC to preserve her family. I believe she did it to preserve her own political aspirations. I have no facts to base that on, but am too cynical regarding politicians to think otherwise. These are simplistic reasons to vote for her as the POTUS IMO. It’s also irritating when HC is said to have devoted her life to being a public servant. As if she has sacrificed? In the absence of any viable alternative, however, I am committed to many planks in the Dem. political platform. So, I shall hold my nose and vote in Nov.

Your considerable time with this conversation is much appreciated. I am not really interested in what people who have the same beliefs as I do have to say. I am very interested in opposing viewpoints. Yours have been thoughtful, concise, and temperate.

Thank you!

 

[redwood66]

.
...corruption in politics irritates me to my core. And I believe the Clintons are at or near the top of a long list of politicians that use public offices to benefit them personally. This means any politicians on both sides. It is the reason they will never vote for term limits. Can you imagine any of them voting for term limits? They are the ones who make the laws and it would be cutting their own throats so it will never happen, even if the people want it. We are helpless because we almost always get the choice of the better of two evils, locally and nationally. If freshmen are not corrupt when they are elected it does not take long to see how it actually works in Washington.

Redwood, you and I are on opposite sides of the aisle, politically speaking, but I could not agree with you more. I hate political dynasties- the Bushes and Clintons. The average person just doesn't realize how rarefied the air is at that level. (I don’t pretend to fully comprehend either, but do acknowledge it.)

I won't vote for HC because she's a woman. I don't believe she didn't divorce BC to preserve her family. I believe she did it to preserve her own political aspirations. I have no facts to base that on, but am too cynical regarding politicians to think otherwise. These are simplistic reasons to vote for her as the POTUS IMO. It’s also irritating when HC is said to have devoted her life to being a public servant. As if she has sacrificed? In the absence of any viable alternative, however, I am committed to many planks in the Dem. political platform. So, I shall hold my nose and vote in Nov.

Your considerable time with this conversation is much appreciated. I am not really interested in what people who have the same beliefs as I do have to say. I am very interested in opposing viewpoints. Yours have been thoughtful, concise, and temperate.

Thank you!

Thank you for your kind comments. This proves to me that conversation can be had between persons who do not agree. I have made it my mission since my row with Gypsy that I will try not to be dragged into silly squabbles if someone does not want to have a coherent and equally valued conversation. That might be hard if my emotions get in the way.

I completely agree with you on Hillary's reasons for staying with him. She is not altruistic as her supporters depict her.

 

[february2003bride]

Donald Trump is an idiot. I read through Gypsy's posts in the other thread and understand quite a bit more about her concerns regarding Donald Trump.

That said corruption in politics irritates me to my core. And I believe the Clintons are at or near the top of a long list of politicians that use public offices to benefit them personally. This means any politicians on both sides. It is the reason they will never vote for term limits. Can you imagine any of them voting for term limits? They are the ones who make the laws and it would be cutting their own throats so it will never happen, even if the people want it. We are helpless because we almost always get the choice of the better of two evils, locally and nationally. If freshmen are not corrupt when they are elected it does not take long to see how it actually works in Washington.

Trump is not only an idiot, he has no control over his campaign. His adult children are really controlling it. My husband works with lobbyists and we have a few friends who are as well, and my DH was at the DNC and has to attend other political events. So we have a bit of insight to this election that others don't get from just FOX/MSNBC/CNN. Not a single Republican lobbyist that my DH has spoken too supports Trump and are worried what will happen if he is elected. And it's not that they want an "establishment" candidate, they want a candidate that has a clue as to what he was doing. We've asked, how do you vote then? Many still don't know how they'll vote. A few will vote for HRC and a few have said they'll write in a name instead.

Of the Democratic lobbyists that my DH knows, the last remaining Sanders supporters got on board after the DNC (which was an amazing event, according to DH). And now all are clicking their heels with glee that they have HRC as a candidate and not Trump.

I fully agree with you on term limits.

 

[redwood66]

I wish Mitt were on the ballot. I'll bet that the evangelicals that would not vote for him in 2012 are wishing they had right now. Much more stable choice and would have been more centrist. He had his own issues, as they all do, but he was not an idiot by any stretch.

 

[AnnaH]

If your senior assistant at the state dept. is having anything to do with your foundation I believe that is inappropriate and should be investigated further. She had said from the beginning that there would be a bright line between the two.

redwood-

I would be more inclined to nitpick about this issue if it weren't for other factors in the political arena right now.

When Donald Trump made that statement about "Second Amendmenters" and what they could do about Hillary Clinton, essentially saying that assassination was an option, I thought of some things you had written here. You had said that it was especially bothersome to you to see Secretary Clinton be able to commit acts with e-mail that would have landed your sons in jail (since they had clearance to handle top secret-or similar-material).

I thought of that and considered posting that allowing Donald Trump to make statements like The Second Amendment one about Secretary Clinton when anyone else who did so would have been detained by The Secret Service was similar.

I admit that The First Amendment is sacrosanct. It is, in my opinion, first, and not second, because the founders of our country put it above even the right to bear arms. So I believe in Donald Trump's right to free speech. But I do not think that his speech should be more free than that of any other American. So if another American would have been detained and questioned for that threat to Secretary Clinton, and he would have been, I think that Donald Trump should have been as well.

In conclusion, since Donald Trump is being handled far differently, far more leniently, than ordinary citizens, why should Secretary Clinton be the subject of constant nitpicking?

Deb/AGBF

Pay for play is not "nitpicking." You may not believe the Clinton's are capable of such a dangerous game, and you have the right to your opinions. But there is certainly reason to investigate, in my opinion.

 

[february2003bride]

I wish Mitt were on the ballot. I'll bet that the evangelicals that would not vote for him in 2012 are wishing they had right now. Much more stable choice and would have been more centrist. He had his own issues, as they all do, but he was not an idiot by any stretch.

You are not alone in your thinking as that sentiment has been expressed countless times by many on the right in the last few weeks. Or if only Cruz/Rubio/Kasich (who I feel was short changed) should have been the nominee instead and republicans would have a much more solid choice to battle against Clinton. The wild card will be the debates. Trump does not debate well and he has problems providing facts and plans. He gets angry and defensive easily and from what I hear his attention span is very short. HRC will run circles around him during the three debates unless his camp is trying to prepare him now (and he's actually listening). It's easy for him during rallies because a good portion of the crowd are his supporters so he can say whatever he wants and he'll get the response he's looking for, whereas he is weak at debating. As a democrat and Clinton supporter, I'm happy to see the poll numbers currently on her side. But I do think there could be a large number of Trump voters that are quiet- no attending rallies, or being vocal about their Trump support on FB or message boards and a large number of them first time voters, that will come out on Election Day.

 

[sarahb]

Millions of trump supporters feel this way about Donald J. Trump....."We don't care if the guy swears... or how many times he's been married...or who he voted for, or what his income tax return shows. We want the problems fixed. Yes he's an egomaniac, but we don't care. We know he's not a racist, or bad to women, or all the other things the liberal media is trying to label him with. We know he's raised a good family, and that says a lot about him.
The country is a mess because politicians suck, the Republican Party is two faced & gutless, and illegals are everywhere and Muslims are openly trying to hurt this country and make the civilized world adjust to them. We want it all fixed!
We don't care that Trump is crude, we don't care that he has changed positions, we don't care that he fights with Megan Kelly, Rosie O'Donnell, and so many of the elected establishment. We don't care that Rubio, Cruz, Ryan, the Bush's, and so many other top old and new Republicans refuse to endorse him for their own selfish reasons, and we know what they are. We don't care that he doesn't know the name of some Muslim terrorists, we don't care that he tried some businesses that didn't work out.
This country is weak, bankrupt, our enemies are making fun of us, we are being invaded by illegals, we are becoming a nation of victims, where every Tom, Ricardo and Hasid is a special group with special rights to a point where we don't even recognize the country we were born and raised in, AND WE JUST WANT IT FIXED. And TRUMP is the only guy who seems to understand what the people want.
We're sick of politicians, sick of the Democratic and Republican Party. We're angry about the Iran deal, the budget, treatment of Israel, military weakness, lobbyists, special interests, overpaid politicians with their self serving bills and back room deals, trade deals, loss of jobs, manipulated economic numbers, businesses fleeing, and even the phoney pay for play Clinton Foundation.
Americans are no longer going to be fooled, and the movement is out to change the direction we're taking. Trump may not be a saint, but he doesn't have lobbyist money holding him, he doesn't have political correctness restraining him, and all you know is that he has been very successful, a good negotiator, he has built a lot of things, he's flexible, and he's also not a politician. And he says he'll fix it. And we believe him because he is too much of an egotist to be proven wrong or looked at and called a liar.
Public service has become elected greed. This may be our only chance to have a non-politician, despite his flaws, try and correct the mess, at least for 4 years. We must take the shot, because the consequences of putting Hillary Clinton in office are frightening. There is a tidal wave happening, and its going to overcome much of what's happened to this country.

Amen. Your post the nailed it. I am sick of the MSM media white washing this entire process. I count myself in "Anyone But Hillary" crowd--she should be in prison.

 

[sarahb]

I don't understand why the Dems have anything to worry about.. b/c at this point Trump is trying very hard NOT to win in Nov.

If we had accurate polling, accurate reporting/news media, an ethical Justice dept, Hillary would be buried in scandal & Trump would be in a leading by a wide margin. Obama has been an utter & total failure.

 

[ksinger]

I wish Mitt were on the ballot. I'll bet that the evangelicals that would not vote for him in 2012 are wishing they had right now. Much more stable choice and would have been more centrist. He had his own issues, as they all do, but he was not an idiot by any stretch.

You are not alone in your thinking as that sentiment has been expressed countless times by many on the right in the last few weeks. Or if only Cruz/Rubio/Kasich (who I feel was short changed) should have been the nominee instead and republicans would have a much more solid choice to battle against Clinton. The wild card will be the debates. Trump does not debate well and he has problems providing facts and plans. He gets angry and defensive easily and from what I hear his attention span is very short. HRC will run circles around him during the three debates unless his camp is trying to prepare him now (and he's actually listening). It's easy for him during rallies because a good portion of the crowd are his supporters so he can say whatever he wants and he'll get the response he's looking for, whereas he is weak at debating. As a democrat and Clinton supporter, I'm happy to see the poll numbers currently on her side. But I do think there could be a large number of Trump voters that are quiet- no attending rallies, or being vocal about their Trump support on FB or message boards and a large number of them first time voters, that will come out on Election Day.

Since the days where party leaders made back room decisions - without reference to the party rank and file - about who was going to represent the party, are over in favor of increasing participation, the Republican party goy exactly the candidate they "the people" chose, no more no less. The hand-wringing by people who truly understood what a debacle his nomination would be, were freaking out last year. And of course it's all unfolding just as they feared. As others have pointed out, the Republican voters had every opportunity to vote for someone sane, but they overwhelmingly chose a madman.

I bet the Republican party rule makers are now regretting not having some mechanism like the Democrats' superdelegates, to keep a truly unelectable or just plain nuts person from becoming the candidate.

And according to Silver's site, there really is no solid evidence of the masses of first time voters that Trump claims he's turned out. Maybe they are there, but apparently they weren't the ones voting in the primaries.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-campaign-memo-unlikely-voters/
"according to data from SurveyMonkey and Catalist based on 14 early primary states, 88 percent of those who voted for Trump in the primary voted in the 2012 presidential election, suggesting that his supporters were more or less standard Republican voters (at least in general elections for president; some may have been first-time participants in this year’s Republican primary)."

 

[Dancing Fire]

I don't understand why the Dems have anything to worry about.. b/c at this point Trump is trying very hard NOT to win in Nov.

If we had accurate polling, accurate reporting/news media, an ethical Justice dept, Hillary would be buried in scandal & Trump would be in a leading by a wide margin. Obama has been an utter & total failure.

..Don't say that on PS... Redwood, Sarah is coming to your rescue!...

 

[arkieb1]

52% of the UK wanted things fixed too. They didn't know how or what exactly. Some vague comments about the immigrants stealing jobs and EU spending. So this 52% listened to 2 charismatic men, you know, not your typical politicians but ones who drink, smoke, swear and don't comb their hair. On 23rd June this 52% fixed these things, they went to the polls and voted to leave the EU. No more immigrants, no more stupid EU rules, no more excessive EU spending. You know, we made Britain independent again.

Or something. Our currency plummeted to a 31 year low. Pensions and retirement accounts lost millions. The rest of the EU won't make trade deals with us. The much cited if Norway ("if they can do it, we can too...") pays more money to stay out of the EU, sit in the meetings and yet not have a vote than we do to be part of the EU complete with vote. The regions who wanted out the most actually have the least amount of immigrants and get the most EU funding. Our interest rates were cut. While we can't declare it's a recession until 3 months of official contraction it's probably coming, and with that a lot of job loss and business moving to where it's "safe" in other EU countries.

Learn from us, or the 52% of them actually. I'm sure many more people want it fixed than that, I do. I JUST WANT IT FIXED too. But I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face. I'm not going to vote for people who don't have answers to important questions or question dodge. The immature side of me likes politicians drinking, smoking, swearing and not having combed hair. It is far more personable than prim and proper. But I'm not fooled. They, the politicians, are all wealthy. They're all expensively educated. They all protect their own interests. Change will be slower if we stay with the status quo rather than electing someone very different.

The US, along with many other places, needs some fixing. The reaction though is too emotional, not analytical. The solutions and how they're enacted sound like what a group of friends came up with down the pub over a few beers when they put the world to rights. In the cold light of next day's hangover is what anyone's proposing actually possible?

Thank you Rhea for stating above what I have been trying to tell some of our US friends who simply refuse to get it. We ALL understand the global backlash against the way things currently are, but Trump will not be a holy saviour of the US economy, in fact it is more than predictable that if he is elected the US will be end up in a much worse state of affairs economically - just like Britain did with Brexit.

 

[Gypsy]

I don't understand why the Dems have anything to worry about.. b/c at this point Trump is trying very hard NOT to win in Nov.

If we had accurate polling, accurate reporting/news media, an ethical Justice dept, Hillary would be buried in scandal & Trump would be in a leading by a wide margin. Obama has been an utter & total failure.

Sarah, how has he been a failure in your opinion? Please state clear points and events. Back up your assertions with facts. I would GENUINELY like to understand why you feel the way you do. But I want an actual fact based discussion of what you feel his failures are with objective facts that support your argument.

 

[Tekate]

I don't understand why the Dems have anything to worry about.. b/c at this point Trump is trying very hard NOT to win in Nov.

if we had accurate polling, accurate reporting/news media, an ethical Justice dept, Hillary would be buried in scandal & Trump would be in a leading by a wide margin. Obama has been an utter & total failure.[/quote]

So, how is the polling inaccurate? I think it is much harder to poll today as we all have digital phones and most of us don't pick up a number we don't know, to have fair and accurate information may be hard to get, the justice Department is ethical here is one of Obama's justice department defended:

http://www.nationallawjournal.com/id=1202758199826/Obamas-Justice-Dept-Defends-Bush-DOJ-in-Post911-Supreme-Court-Case?slreturn=20160714150655

I think there are many cases where republicans would rejoice at the decisions:

https://www.justice.gov/oip/court-decisions

I would like to know exactly what Obama did to make you believe he was an utter and total failure. I know DancingFire kindly told me he felt Obama could have done much better in growth: http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/04/simply-worst-obama-first-president-ever-not-see-single-year-3-gdp/

here's an article on what may be causing this slow growth.. http://www.vox.com/2016/8/1/12131216/theories-gdp-growth-slow

the world economies are all experiencing sluggish growth: http://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/2015/09/28/04/53/sonew04121

Obama recognized that we need immigration to continue growth in America due to an aging population (boomers).

I look forward to reading your answers, because I too wish to learn why people think this way. (the way you do)

peace

 

[redwood66]

Here is another personal experience from me with regard to Obama's stimulus plan which ties into some of the problems some of us have with him. It is one of the reasons that I cannot get on board with Clinton's economic plan that includes $275 billion for infrastructure.

Up until a month ago I spent the last few years working for my state's transportation dept. The stimulus money that was poured out to the states did not do much for creating jobs but it sure did spend a lot of money. "Shovel ready" is a ridiculous term that makes me want to punch someone in the nose every time I hear it. The bureaucrats have no idea what it takes to get a job shovel ready. Planning for road and bridge construction is not an overnight affair especially when you have to wade through the amount of regulation to build something that will pass muster and be safe for people to travel upon - bridge design and construction is particularly time consuming. Who wants to drive on a poorly designed or constructed bridge? My state pulled out projects that had been designed 5 years ago and they had to be redesigned to meet new federal regulations all the while being under the gun - "You have to spend this money!!" So a project that needed to be redesigned now cost 30-50% more dollars than it should have.

Also everyone, including bureaucrats, should understand that infrastructure jobs are temporary and if you are being honest should not be counted as permanent jobs created.

All this said, our infrastructure does need work but creating a heaping pile of money with ridiculous or unrealistic expectations on spending it does not end up the way the politicians promise you. The way transportation spending works in most states is you get your budget for the year, which most of the time stays near the same, and then your staff designs projects and oversees construction. The staffing levels are at hopefully just the right amount to design and construct the projects to use that money annually trying to keep ahead a year or two just in case there is a bit of extra $ for the year. When a giant pot of money is plopped out there has not been enough projects designed to use that new pot of money. But you'd better do it somehow because your state bureaucrats are emailing and calling your dept telling them they'd better get it done. So what do you do? You hire consultants at twice the cost. SMH.

 

[AnnaH]

Yeah, Red, I never understood President Obama's joke about shovel ready jobs not so shovel ready. Guess you had to be there.

 

[sarahb]

I don't understand why the Dems have anything to worry about.. b/c at this point Trump is trying very hard NOT to win in Nov.

If we had accurate polling, accurate reporting/news media, an ethical Justice dept, Hillary would be buried in scandal & Trump would be in a leading by a wide margin. Obama has been an utter & total failure.

Sarah, how has he been a failure in your opinion? Please state clear points and events. Back up your assertions with facts. I would GENUINELY like to understand why you feel the way you do. But I want an actual fact based discussion of what you feel his failures are with objective facts that support your argument.

As a news junkie, I am very well read. In all due respect, I just don't have the 'want' or desire to pull all the links etc together for a PS presentation & subsequent discourse. Please don't take this as skirting the issue, just don't want to go through the exercise. No offense intended either!!

 

[redwood66]

I don't understand why the Dems have anything to worry about.. b/c at this point Trump is trying very hard NOT to win in Nov.

If we had accurate polling, accurate reporting/news media, an ethical Justice dept, Hillary would be buried in scandal & Trump would be in a leading by a wide margin. Obama has been an utter & total failure.

Sarah, how has he been a failure in your opinion? Please state clear points and events. Back up your assertions with facts. I would GENUINELY like to understand why you feel the way you do. But I want an actual fact based discussion of what you feel his failures are with objective facts that support your argument.

As a news junkie, I am very well read. In all due respect, I just don't have the 'want' or desire to pull all the links etc together for a PS presentation & subsequent discourse. Please don't take this as skirting the issue, just don't want to go through the exercise. No offense intended either!!

I understand your feeling. They have made me work very hard this past week. But I do get it and making myself do research has been good for me personally. I am hoping the discourse will be a bit nicer from now on which is always a good thing.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Yeah, Red, I never understood President Obama's joke about shovel ready jobs not so shovel ready. Guess you had to be there.

My neighbor's dog created more shovel ready jobs than Prez. Obama.

 

[telephone89]

http://www.fastcocreate.com/3062847/quick-hit/watch-a-pro-trump-focus-group-not-realize-these-amazing-campaign-ads-are-satire

I didn't want to make a new thread, but this is pretty hilarious.

 

[Maria D]

http://www.fastcocreate.com/3062847/quick-hit/watch-a-pro-trump-focus-group-not-realize-these-amazing-campaign-ads-are-satire

I didn't want to make a new thread, but this is pretty hilarious.

I saw that yesterday; yes it's hilarious but cringe-worthy too. I felt I was watching a study in "group-think" as much as the ridiculousness of non-rational Trump supporters. I guess I have a soft spot for people who are being fooled, because I kind of felt bad for these people!

But - it was hysterically funny. Did they piece together bits of Trump speeches in order to use his actual voice? I don't know why, but the proposal to change 9-1-1 to 9 cracked me up the most!