Cushion Specialists - Urgent help needed please!

[Acarataday]

Hi all,

You may remember a thread from me last week on two cushions, which weren't liked. I visited several suppliers and think I may have found a good stone, but would want to know your thoughts (apologies for the blurred pictures, they were taken from my phone cam) It's a hearts and arrows style type cut (8 pavillion mains and 4 facets on the outside cushion modified brilliant).

Carat: 2.02
Colour: E
Clarity: VS2
Dimensions: Around 7.3mm to 7.1mm
Depth: 69%
Table 62%

Will be photobombing in this post and the next post, please give me your honest thoughts - the stone comes in at around $20,450.

In the second set of photos you can see two stones on the dealers hand - the top one is another more rectangular stone with otherwise similar specs for comparison.

Very much appreciate your help and promise to have final pics up of whatever I decide to buy.

Thanks,

 

[Acarataday]

A few more..

 

[Acarataday]

Last one

 

[Acarataday]

Bump bump - for a man in need!

 

[marymm]

Does this cushion have a GIA report? I ask because the dimensions you give are approximate, and if it had a report, I'd think you'd have exact measurements.

From the pics, it looks like a modern cushion, not a H&A cushion.

Is it your timeline that is making this urgent, or is the dealer pressuring you?

As long as there is a rock-solid return policy and it is a reputable vendor, you can always purchase it so you can inspect it at your leisure and maybe even have a professional independent appraiser examine it as well.

(And, FWIW, from the pics, I would have guessed the rectangle cushion to be in the near-colorless range more like H/I, rather than the same color as the square cushion.)

 

[pyramid]

Don't care for the white circle I can see under the table. I don't know much about fancy cuts though.

 

[Acarataday]

Does this cushion have a GIA report? I ask because the dimensions you give are approximate, and if it had a report, I'd think you'd have exact measurements.

From the pics, it looks like a modern cushion, not a H&A cushion.

Is it your timeline that is making this urgent, or is the dealer pressuring you?

As long as there is a rock-solid return policy and it is a reputable vendor, you can always purchase it so you can inspect it at your leisure and maybe even have a professional independent appraiser examine it as well.

(And, FWIW, from the pics, I would have guessed the rectangle cushion to be in the near-colorless range more like H/I, rather than the same color as the square cushion.)

Hi Marymm

It does, have a GIA report, the dimensions are 7.33 by 7.17 - so its near enough a square (which is what I'm after)

Its more my own timeline, the vendor is trustworthy, but I'm not too knowledeable on light performance and even though I liked the stone in person - could quite easily get duped (hence relying on you guys a little to point out anything obvious I may be missing!)

Its not a hearts and arrows, however the cut is very similar to one (please see attached)

 

[marymm]

To evaluate light performance, you'd need an Aset or IdealScope - any chance your vendor can provide either/both?

What does the GIA report say for Symmetry and Polish?

Have you looked at it outside of jewelry store lighting?

I ran a quick PS search for similar-spec cushions, and looks like the price is within market range - https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-...0&vln_l_ct=180&search_key=sk_session_9511&f=3

 

[JulieN]

The square stone is not H&A style, even though it has the same GIA plot.

Read marymm's most recent thread. Follow the links in it: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/update-switched-out-to-bn-sig-cushion-yay.209835/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/update-switched-out-to-bn-sig-cushion-yay.209835/[/URL]

Report to her new stone http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?pagename=GST%2FDispatcher&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&c=Page&cid=1355954554547&reportno=2161857617

Report of old stone: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.01-carat-d-color-vs1-clarity-sku-294031

See how they look totally different even though they have the same diagram?

The pics you have updated the last thread with are better, they are more zoomed in and you can see the stone.

 

[Acarataday]

To evaluate light performance, you'd need an Aset or IdealScope - any chance your vendor can provide either/both?

What does the GIA report say for Symmetry and Polish?

Have you looked at it outside of jewelry store lighting?

I ran a quick PS search for similar-spec cushions, and looks like the price is within market range - https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-...0&vln_l_ct=180&search_key=sk_session_9511&f=3

Annoyingly I haven't spoken to any vendor in the UK that has idealscope or ASET and it usually adds cost for them to have it sent somewhere to do!

Polish is Excellent and symmetry very good. It looks quite sparkly in outside light, I think I just doubt my own opinion of it for some reason so though I'd get some thoughts from the pictures)

 

[Acarataday]

The square stone is not H&A style, even though it has the same GIA plot.

Read marymm's most recent thread. Follow the links in it: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/update-switched-out-to-bn-sig-cushion-yay.209835/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/update-switched-out-to-bn-sig-cushion-yay.209835/[/URL]

Report to her new stone http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?pagename=GST%2FDispatcher&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&c=Page&cid=1355954554547&reportno=2161857617

Report of old stone: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.01-carat-d-color-vs1-clarity-sku-294031

See how they look totally different even though they have the same diagram?

Hey JulieN - Thanks for taking a look at the two stones I posted last week.

This stone is definitely a lot more similar to the James Allen stone in terms of cut. If this is well cut, would it be any less brilliant than a hearts and arrows? A hearts and arrows for this style at 2 carats on Bluenile is a ton more expensive too.

Just wondering what your initial thoughts were of the stone from the images and if there are any obvious plus points and flaws?

Thanks

 

[pyramid]

Hearts & arrows is about optical symmetry not brilliance.

 

[JulieN]

Ok personally I prefer the H&A cut, I tend to think stones like the JA one are a little bit dark looking, and not as eye-catching... But of course H&A is much much more expensive so it is up to the preferences of your girlfriend.

Have your jeweler pull out a well-cut round next to the cushions. An H&A cushion looks almost like a round.

 

[Acarataday]

Understood - I think round brilliants are quite eye catching so I can imagine a cushion hearts and arrows would be too. I'm just wondering if the symmetry would cause a significant amount of difference to justify the extra spend here?

 

[Acarataday]

JulieN - I haven't consulted her as it'll be a surprise proposal unfotunately! I know she'd want it to be sparkly, but I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on this stone?

If a hearts and arrows was lets say 5-10% more sparkly/fire/brilliance etc - then for the price difference this may well be a more realistic option. Just wondering if there are any obvious flaws in this one (I didn't like the look of the photo that you can see that was professionally taken in white light, but I suspect that wasn't supposed to bring out the the look of the stone)

 

[Acarataday]

Here is a link to a short video I took of the stone if it helps at all:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8l1hd38bbpfrk8s/AACBwsIbFCLsm_j9zWXoSYLza?dl=0

Thanks,

 

[JulieN]

Unfortunately the pics are not very good. None of the choices we've looked at have been disastrously ugly, so a lot of this comes down to personal preferences.... Seeing it in person, you'd better be able to judge which one is better.

You could buy an ASET for your own use but it might take awhile to get there: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/any-one-in-uk-selling-ideal-scope-aset.114318/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/any-one-in-uk-selling-ideal-scope-aset.114318/[/URL]

 

[Acarataday]

Thanks, may make a last second dash to try and obtain one (albeit may be difficult!)

Does the video in the previous post shed any light on this? (pardon the awful pun)

 

[danielxlin]

Doesn't face up huge for a 2 carat stone. You're paying for a lot of depth. Dimensions could also fit a 1.5 carat stone. Probably an overpay.

 

[Acarataday]

Doesn't face up huge for a 2 carat stone. You're paying for a lot of depth. Dimensions could also fit a 1.5 carat stone. Probably an overpay.

Hmm - A lot of the 1.5-1.6 carats that are cut well I've seen appear to reach 6.7/6.8mm max ..There have been some 1.8 carats that would easily make the dimensions though. But a depth of 69% isn't notably high?

 

[JoshuaNiamehr]

69% Depth is NOT a lot for a cushion cut such as the ones you are looking at.

 

[danielxlin]

I much prefer the stone Ariel144 posted: a 1.7 carat that faced up larger than this 2.0 carat, yet cost much less.

 

[Acarataday]

69% Depth is NOT a lot for a cushion cut such as the ones you are looking at.

I think the Tiffany Novo stones tend to have a depth of between 68-72% too.

 

[Gypsy]

69% Depth is NOT a lot for a cushion cut such as the ones you are looking at.

I think the Tiffany Novo stones tend to have a depth of between 68-72% too.

Where are you getting that number from?

Also depth in a vacuum is meaningless. And picking cushions by numbers is a mistake. Even disqualifying them by the numbers is a mistake.

I have a 72% depth cushion in my hands right now that is gorgeous. It's a 4 main cushion brilliant. Sure it took a hit to spread, but otherwise it is a stunning stone.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Hi Acarataday,
A few things come to mind reading your thread:
ASET- if you know what different type of diamonds look like in ASET, there would be some use on getting one- or having dealers send you ASET images.
You're going to judge your purchase with your eyes- at the end of the day, you'd need to do this anyway, regardless of ASET.
Of course your eyes are not trained on how to pick a cushion diamond.
But you've already started noticing some important differences in stones.
You mentioned paying extra for 5-10% more brilliance....
But you also noticed differences in spread.
People can easily notice a 10% difference spread- but what about a 10% difference in brilliance?
Not so much - and in fact brilliance is far more dependent on perception- and lighting, whereas spread is a hard number.

My own personal taste on H&A cushions is that I'd buy a round H&A diamond if I wanted an H&A look.
Paying extra for that look?
You need to be very sure you like it better- many people don't

 

[danielxlin]

The Brian Gavin Hearts and Arrows Cushions tend to have depth percentages somewhere around 61%, or a touch under. Here's an example: http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.015-f-vs1-cushion-diamond-ags-104066027002

2 carat cushion, 60.3% depth, with dimensions of 8.48mm x 7.08mm. Same 2 carat weight as OP's stone, but faces up much larger.

I understand that the BG is more expensive, but I was just making a point about depth percentage. I would look for something like the BG Hearts and Arrow Cushion with a less depth. It represents a cut that's closer to ideal for this shape cushion.

 

[JulieN]

The Brian Gavin Hearts and Arrows Cushions tend to have depth percentages somewhere around 61%, or a touch under. Here's an example: http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.015-f-vs1-cushion-diamond-ags-104066027002

2 carat cushion, 60.3% depth, with dimensions of 8.48mm x 7.08mm. Same 2 carat weight as OP's stone, but faces up much larger.

BGD cushion is about 7.08 length on each side, I assume the 7.08 is the longest side measured. the 8.48 is diagonal measurement.

 

[danielxlin]

The Brian Gavin Hearts and Arrows Cushions tend to have depth percentages somewhere around 61%, or a touch under. Here's an example: http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.015-f-vs1-cushion-diamond-ags-104066027002

2 carat cushion, 60.3% depth, with dimensions of 8.48mm x 7.08mm. Same 2 carat weight as OP's stone, but faces up much larger.

BGD cushion is about 7.08 length on each side, I assume the 7.08 is the longest side measured. the 8.48 is diagonal measurement.

My mistake. BG depth percentage is also calculated in some strange way: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-line-of-brian-gavin-signature-cushion-cuts.191403/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-line-of-brian-gavin-signature-cushion-cuts.191403/[/URL]

 

[Acarataday]

69% Depth is NOT a lot for a cushion cut such as the ones you are looking at.

I think the Tiffany Novo stones tend to have a depth of between 68-72% too.

Where are you getting that number from?

Also depth in a vacuum is meaningless. And picking cushions by numbers is a mistake. Even disqualifying them by the numbers is a mistake.

I have a 72% depth cushion in my hands right now that is gorgeous. It's a 4 main cushion brilliant. Sure it took a hit to spread, but otherwise it is a stunning stone.

There's 4 in the country at the moment and I had a quick glance at 3 of them and their tiffany certificates!

I agree, it's fairly difficult to tell, and from thinking I was smart by looking at things on paper, I realised selecting a stone wasn't like that! I've noticed some of your posts when search through cushion threads by the way (Sorry to sound like a stalker!)..any opinion on the images or video I posted up (despite lack of clarity) or anything specific advice on what to look out for? I'm seeing it one more time tomorrow..

Many thanks!

 

[Acarataday]

Hi Acarataday,
A few things come to mind reading your thread:
ASET- if you know what different type of diamonds look like in ASET, there would be some use on getting one- or having dealers send you ASET images.
You're going to judge your purchase with your eyes- at the end of the day, you'd need to do this anyway, regardless of ASET.
Of course your eyes are not trained on how to pick a cushion diamond.
But you've already started noticing some important differences in stones.
You mentioned paying extra for 5-10% more brilliance....
But you also noticed differences in spread.
People can easily notice a 10% difference spread- but what about a 10% difference in brilliance?
Not so much - and in fact brilliance is far more dependent on perception- and lighting, whereas spread is a hard number.

My own personal taste on H&A cushions is that I'd buy a round H&A diamond if I wanted an H&A look.
Paying extra for that look?
You need to be very sure you like it better- many people don't

Thanks for your post rockdiamond - are there any obvious things that I could look at in the stone if I'm seeing it in person that would be as effective as having an ASET for example (as none of the vendors in the U.K. have one!)..the guy has white light, a fairly dark room and there is daylight outside..what would be a give away for example on brilliance, scintillation or light distribution not being good in a particular area? (the problem is I've noticed that diamonds can all appear to look very sparkly given the correct angle and lighting!)..

I do know some obvious basics, but a lot of them otherwise just look sparkly to some degree!

It's a very good point on the h&a cushions, even though I really do like the concept of them..they almost look like they face up too proper - and lose a little bit of the character of other nice cushions - but I can see the appeal in having light distribution similar to a round brilliant too!