The Piano Thread

[kenny]

Actually, I just noticed your piano already has a lock. DUH! Kenny!
Close the lid completely, both parts, and on the front there will be a keyhole like mine below.

Call Mason and Hamlin in Massachusetts, http://www.masonhamlin.ca/Contact/
Give them your serial number and ask if they have a key or know who makes one.



Here is where the serial number is often located ...

 

[amc80]

Ha, didn't even think of that...THANK YOU!!

 

[kenny]

We do have a fairly stable humidity level- hovers right around 15-20%....very dry.

EEK!
Stable is good, but 15-20% Relative Humidity is quite low.
Optimum is 42%.
Wood is like a sponge.
It swells and shrinks with moisture content.
15% humidity may kill your piano, especially if it used to live in a higher humidity location.

I protected the investment of both my Mason & Hamlin and my Blüthner with this humidity control system.
It used to be called Dammp-chaser but they changed the name to Piano Life Saver System.
http://www.pianolifesaver.com/english/home.php
Parts and installation will probably be around $500 for your size of Grand.

You cannot buy it directly.
Wisely, the company only sells to piano technicians who must properly install it.
Ask the company to recommend a qualified installation tech near you.

The system is silent, must remain plugged in to an AC outlet 24/7 (tell your maid), and requires refilling of the water tank perhaps once every other week, but at 15% RH it may need refilling weekly.
Flashing LEDs will tell you when to refill.
Don't get it if watering your piano isn't something you are willing to do.

It keeps the relative humidity of the soundboard (and to some degree the rest of the piano) at 42%.
This preserves the tuning better between tunings and protects the 5,214,215,478 glue joints in the piano from failing due to shrinking or expanding wood.
Of course it's best when installed on a new piano I'd still get one if I inherited a piano as nice as yours.

This system is not 'essential' but it is smart.
Your piano may be lucky and be in pristine condition, or frankly it may be ready for a $25,000 rebuild or the landfill. (sorry, it happens to the best of us humans and pianos).
Once you get a good tech out here (s)he can evaluate the condition and advise you.

 

[monarch64]

I grew up playing a Starr baby grand. Starr's were made in Richmond, IN from the 1870's through the 1940's. I think my mother's is from the '20's or '30's. I have fond memories of slumber parties with lots of little girls clustered around it, singing and playing. Many of us took piano lessons back then.

My maternal grandmother was a concert pianist and violinist, and it was very important to my mother to have a piano in her home. I took lessons for oh, 10 years? I bought an upright piano back in 2004 with my first large tax refund. Sadly, I couldn't afford to have it moved from Chicago back to Indiana when I divorced. I've been searching for my "just right" piano for two years now, as I'm also of the mind that our home isn't complete without one. My husband's undergrad degree is in music, and we would love for our daughter and any future children to have the opportunity to learn to play and enjoy the piano.

 

[kenny]

M64, Elkart Indiana is the location of one of the few remaining piano manufacturers in America.

Charles Walter makes fine grands and uprights.
IMO, their uprights are the best value of all uprights.
They compete with uprights costing twice the price.

If I bought an upright, and didn't have tens of thousands for a European one, it would be a CW.

http://www.walterpiano.com/pianos/

You can tour their factory.
I've toured Steinway in NY and Mason and Hamlin in MA, and it's fascinating.

 

[monarch64]

Wow, thank you Kenny! I didn't know that. I remember Kimball had a factory in French Lick (yes, that's a town here in southern IN), but I didn't know about Elkhart and CW.

I keep hoping to come across a student piano or something since we live so close to I.U.'s Jacobs School of Music, but so far nada. I'll definitely look into CW. Thank you!

 

[amc80]

We do have a fairly stable humidity level- hovers right around 15-20%....very dry.

EEK!
Stable is good, but 15-20% Relative Humidity is quite low.
Optimum is 42%.
Wood is like a sponge.
It swells and shrinks with moisture content.
15% humidity may kill your piano, especially if it used to live in a higher humidity location.

The good news is it used to live in a LOWER humidity place So this is practically a steam room.

 

[kenny]

We do have a fairly stable humidity level- hovers right around 15-20%....very dry.

EEK!
Stable is good, but 15-20% Relative Humidity is quite low.
Optimum is 42%.
Wood is like a sponge.
It swells and shrinks with moisture content.
15% humidity may kill your piano, especially if it used to live in a higher humidity location.

The good news is it used to live in a LOWER humidity place So this is practically a steam room.

Good to hear.
In that case I'd not spend the funds on a humidity control system.

 

[kenny]

Wow, thank you Kenny! I didn't know that. I remember Kimball had a factory in French Lick (yes, that's a town here in southern IN), but I didn't know about Elkhart and CW.

I keep hoping to come across a student piano or something since we live so close to I.U.'s Jacobs School of Music, but so far nada. I'll definitely look into CW. Thank you!

I think the MSRP for a new CW upright piano is around $12,000, which means you may be able to negotiate one down to around $9,000.

CW uprights are unique in one way.
99.999999% of the time a bigger piano is better for a many reasons.
With CW uprights both sizes (the shorter console, and the taller studio) have identical guts inside, only the case dimensions vary.
That means you can pick the shorter console and be confident the instrument inside is as good of a musical instrument as its larger brother.

Buying used is risky but there are 9 CW uprights now for sale on Pianomart, priced from $2,000 to $6,000.
I believe it's customary for the buyer to pay shipping, which may cost more than the piano if you are far away.

http://www.pianomart.com/buy-a-piano/piano-ads.php?manufacturer_id=127&zip=Zip+Code&radius=&type_id=3&placed=&ad_id=Ad+Number&submit=

Here's one located just north of Chicago, IL ... http://www.pianomart.com/buy-a-piano/ad.php?ad_id=19077
If everything in their ad is true this piano has the ideal history.

Anyone considering buying a piano, new or especially used, please first spend twenty bucks to get The Piano Book recommended above.
It may save you thousands and spare you lots of heartache.
Also if you want to buy a used piano and can't visit the piano to test drive it and go through the checklist from The Piano Book, I'd hire an independent piano tech in the piano's area and pay him/her to evaluate it.
Find a tech, and piano-buying tips, at www.ptg.org

 

[NewEnglandLady]

D bought Katie a piano for her birthday. Though D is always monopolizing it...poor K. I, personally, think the thing is a pain in the butt. It takes up a ton of room, it's loud, and it's the most needy instrument that has ever existed. It has humidifiers and de-humidifiers (D keeps the relative humidity at 40%). The technician seems to be here every other month to tune and/or voice it. And it needs dusting every few days. But D loves it and K also seems to love it, so that makes me happy.

K genuinely seems to love music, so I take her to music classes on Friday, but the conservatory closest to us won't start piano and violin lessons until she's 3. I would like to expose her to a wide variety of potential activities (dance, sports, music), but I know D will prioritize music. I played the clarinet until I left for college, so I can appreciate that.

I saw that Steinway was bought again...for the 4th time in as many decades.

 

[kenny]

D bought Katie a piano for her birthday. Though D is always monopolizing it...poor K. I, personally, think the thing is a pain in the butt. It takes up a ton of room, it's loud, and it's the most needy instrument that has ever existed. It has humidifiers and de-humidifiers (D keeps the relative humidity at 40%). The technician seems to be here every other month to tune and/or voice it. And it needs dusting every few days. But D loves it and K also seems to love it, so that makes me happy.

K genuinely seems to love music, so I take her to music classes on Friday, but the conservatory closest to us won't start piano and violin lessons until she's 3. I would like to expose her to a wide variety of potential activities (dance, sports, music), but I know D will prioritize music. I played the clarinet until I left for college, so I can appreciate that.

I saw that Steinway was bought again...for the 4th time in as many decades.

NEL, cute baby!
Yamaha has some of the best and most-consistent workmanship of any piano company.
Other Yamahites also have issues with the brightness of tone.
I see you have hard wood floors, and by chance are those walls lath & plaster?
If so that's is a very hard material that reflects sound making the piano sound even more bright.
Yamaha is one of the brightest sounding pianos (except for their top of the line S-series grands) and putting it in a room with no rugs or wall treatments is just asking for hearing damage.

Rugs and pads under the piano will help, as will wall treatments like tapestries, or better yet a large full bookshelf.
Companies make sound-absorbing panels, intended for recording studios, but they are quite expensive.

I have 3 layers under my big piano, not so much to address a brightness problem, but for sheer volume.
First thick cork, the thickest rug pad I could find at a good Oriental Rug store, and a thick hand-knotted Persian, 60-Raj.

Generally the heavier the stuff you put under the piano the more it will absorb sound.

Yamaha piano hammers are notoriously bright and just get brighter with use as impact with the string packs the felt tighter and tighter.
In many applications this brightness is cherished, such as with a band playing in a club.
The brightness of the Yamaha piano can cut through the mix.
In a home they can be problematically bright.
The obvious first solution is to play with the lid down.
You can even remove the music desk, fully close the part of the lid near the keyboard, place a towel on it, then place the music desk on the towel.
This is an adequate solution for many owners of Yamaha grands.

One idea if the tech is struggling to voice the hammers down is to replace the Yamaha hammers with a brand that has softer felt, like Abel or Ronsen.
http://www.abel-pianoparts.de/index.php?index=1&lng=en

Dust in the piano and on the strings can be kept down with a string cover.



You can pay hundreds of dollars to get a custom one made to your piano or do what I do.
Buy some 100% real wool felt from here: http://www.centralshippee.com/pages/colorcards/tempora.htm
Place it in the piano and carefully cut with a scissors.
It will cost under $100 or your size piano.
Prevent it from sagging down and touching your strings with fishing line tied between the plate struts.

A string cover has the added benefit of creating a better-controled micro climate around the soundboard so your humidity control system doesn't have to fight drafts in the room.

Next an outer cover on top of the closed piano further helps the microclimate and dust reduction.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Kenny, thanks for the helpful advice/tips. Immediately after getting the piano, we started adding materials to dampen the sound. We threw an 9 x 12 rug under it (though I like the idea of adding padding under the rug), I hung heavy cotton curtains on the 3 windows and there is also a sofa in there that you can't see in the photo, which helps absorb some sound.

Right now we have the lid closed, but I really like the idea of a string cover.

ETA: forgot to mention the walls. Above the chair rail is plaster (not sure if it is lath and plaster), but below the chair rail is wood. The house was built in the late 1700's and apparently back then the plaster would settle, so they used wood to reinforce the walls and prevent the walls from bowing out. Point is, the wood likely makes the sound even brighter than the plaster!

 

[kenny]

http://www.edwardsstringcovers.com

This is a company that makes nice-lookinng string covers if you have the budget and don't want to hassle withe a home made cover.
I believe they use a woven cloth which is inferior to wool felt which is pressed fibers, and more dense.
If you order the 100% real wool felt from centralshippee ask for the thicker wool if they still have two weights.
The heavier felt will give you a tad more sound attenuation.

At the above site, click on the tab for Sound Reduction Kits.
Those are custom-cut foam inserts that reduct the piano's volume.
One kind goes on the top over the strings and another kind goes under the piano.

If you have a humidity control system under the piano I think you'll only be able to use the top foam insert.

You might be able to find similar foam to cut yourself.

If you do go with the foam for the top you won't need a string cover.

BTW, I'm not endorsing this company.
I've never bought from them, I am only aware of them.
Please research their competitors and reputability before buying.

 

[partgypsy]

Ha! i'm from the Midwest and the upright piano my parents purchased was a Kimball. I loved learning how to play piano but personally disliked (maybe it was more detest) that piano. It was a weekly pleasure to play on my piano teacher's beautifully tuned and responsive-sounding grands.
I know nothing about pianos except some are uprights and some are grands (or baby grands).

Thank you Kenny for taking the time to educate.

 

[Smith1942]

Everyone has such lovely pianos! God, what a dream to have a grand.

I had formal lessons from age 6 to 18, when I trotted off to university. I've always played as an adult. I did all the Royal College of Music exams up to Grade 6. I was suprised to learn that in America there's no formal structure of passing exams to learn. In the UK just about all kids who take lessons go on that track, Grades 1 through 9. To give you an idea, Grade 1 is super-simple stuff and by Grade 6 you're playing Bach concertos. There is also a composition element in Grade 6. Grade 9 is a teaching exam. However, there's a block at Grade 5...you can't go any further until you pass the Royal College's dreaded Music Theory exam.

The exams are quite full-on: They consist of three pieces that you learn beforehand. The Royal College prepares a book of exam pieces for each grade. There are about nine pieces in each exam book, and you choose three to learn. Each grade requires a certain number of scales according to what level you're at. You start in Grade one with the simplest scale, such as C for one octave, either right hand or left hand but not together. Then it adds on and adds on each grade so by the higher grades you're supposed to know all the scales, major and minor, and play them for three octaves, both hands, plus arpeggios etc. Then, there is a clapping and singing element to each exam, to demonstrate rhythm and musical ability.

So, it takes about three months to prepare, and on the appointed day you go to a musical facility where an examiner from the Royal College is waiting. You go in, and you play your three pieces. Then, the examiner randomly picks scales for you to play. After that, the examiner sits at the piano and plays a melody, which you have to clap back. They do this a few times. Then they play other melodies and you have to sing them back. After that you can go!

ETA: Oh, no you can't! I forgot. There is a sight-reading element to the exam, too. They put a piece of music in front of you that you've never seen before and tell you to play it. They mark you on how well you handle it.

See, I said it was full-on! Having an exam-based structure is a great way to progress. I remember how very surprised I was when I came to the States and realised that there are no equivalents of the music exams, nor of O-Levels and A-Levels at school. (For Harry Potter fans, that's the O.W.L.s!) I was left wondering how anybody ever progresses without the fear and discipline of exams. (The SATs are not equivalent: the O and A levels are government-mandated for 18-year-olds, the syllabi are years long and you never know what they're going to ask you. Each exam is about three hours and you take several per subject. My A-Level French exams were nine hours in total, a three-hour exam each on reading, writing and listening, and it involved engineering texts in French and French literature.

In one of the lower piano grades, I had a near-disaster once. In the sight-reading part, I played the whole piece through and then realised that I had totally, completely forgotten to even glance at the key signature. Luckily, it was C major!

So, when I was a kid I only had my dad's organ to practise on, then at around age 10 my parents bought my first piano. It was a re-conditioned upright and apparently had come from a pub in Dublin! The make was Vichand.

Then, for my 18th birthday I got a much better piano. Again, an upright, a Weber with a Young Chang movement. It's got the most beautiful case, high-polished mahogany.

But I had to leave it behind in England. My piano is 3,500 miles away.

However, I can't not play. We live in an apartment, so a few years ago we bought a digital piano. If you're going to get a digital, at least get the best - so we got a Yamaha. It's from the Clavinova range. And it's not bad! Not quite like an acoustic, but being Yamaha the keys are all weighted properly and the sound calibrated from a concert grand. Also, as we're in a condo, you can play it with the headphones. I'll post a pic.