Am I being unreasonable - DH wants to return to Ireland

[mlk]

Nope, not unreasonable to have these concerns (AT ALL!). If your husband could address your list of concerns, realistically- not in a vague way, would you be open to considering it?

Your concerns are legit and not easily overcome; perhaps if your husband could have your 'permission' to go ahead and see if there are solutions to them he would feel 1)more proactive, 2) supported in his worry about his parent, and 3) (hopefully) more empowered to say no to his parent because he has put in the effort to really check it out and has concrete examples of why it won't be possible for your family. I agree with amc, though, that MIL is being very unreasonable and none of these concerns will sway her; I'm more thinking about how to make your DH feel comfortable with putting his family's needs first without feeling like a bad son.

I'm sorry you are dealing with this; families are wonderful and awful and messy and glorious all at the same time and it's just hard to manage it all well all the time.

Thanks Aviastar, you do pose a good question. The thing is I really don't see what help we could even be at this stage apart from cleaning, grocery shopping etc. there are no current health concerns nor has there been in the past apart from a broken knee. It is funny how families are so different, my parents were so different to DH's in every way

 

[mlk]

[

I don't see the choice as unhealthy. It seems to me like the OP's husband has been prioritizing his family - he has lived in Australia for 10 years (9 of those with his wife and later, his child). Based on OPs original post, I also assumed that he has not seen his family on a regular basis. OP said that they had not made a visit there since the wedding, which was 2.5 years ago. Unlike Smith, who's made regular and lengthy visits to see her mom as a compromise, I'm not seeing the compromise here? .

You are right that we have not been there for 2.5 years. I was pregnant about a year after our wedding and then halfway throughout my pregnancy I was diagnosed as high risk so couldn't travel. My son was born prematurely and was in hospital for over 6 weeks and was extremely small when discharged so it wasn't really feasible to go overseas until his immunity etc built up. Since about march I have been pushing every week to book flights and I get every excuse under the sun why not to book it. The two times I have physically been about to book the flights DH has told me not to because of this reason. So it is not me who is not compromising or stopping him from visiting. Quite the opposite actually.

 

[mlk]

I agree with Smith and Housecat. Woe to the mother who doesn't allow their children to prioritise their marriage and families over themselves. How selfish. I don't have kids but even I know that you need to let your kids get on with their adult lives, without undue interference. I feel lucky that my parents have never put pressure on me to stay with them: I live on a different continent actually, and I know they would love for me to be closer. But not once have they ever asked me to come back. They too left their own parents to make a life for their children in another country, and my grandparents were equally understanding. If I ever have children, I hope I can follow their example and never be burden to my children by guilting them at every opportunity.

Rosetta your parents and grandparents sound wonderful and so unselfish. I wish it was that easy for everyone.

 

[mlk]

For what it's worth, I agree with Smith & Housecat too about parents unfairly burdening their adult children. As much as I love my kids, I understand that my role will change at some point and that they will move on with their own lives. We don't know that's the case here, though. OP hasn't been back yet to respond, so we don't know much of the circumstances. Maybe OPs DH has always known that he has wanted to move back to Ireland? Maybe he knows that he's the only one in his family to adequately care for them? There really could be any number of things going on here and I feel bad for OP because she is the one left in the dark when her DH has his private discussions with his mom.

Sorry for the delay momhappy, I was in bed! Somehow I managed to sleep last night until my son started screaming that is. The joys of teething!

The private discussions have always been a huge issue for me. He either goes outside and shuts the door or onto another level of our house and also shuts the door.

 

[mlk]

Momhappy - it sounds as if you and your husband reached a good compromise with his father's illness. When your parent is diagnosed as terminal, time with them becomes so precious. Yes, I have reached my compromise too, and mostly it works. I get tired with all the jetlag and I get stress outbreaks of cold sores etc and I find it difficult to work at my career with so much disruption (and I turned down my dream job o spend time with my mum) so it hasn't been without sacrifice. It's important to me not to have regrets, though. But still, that's nothing compared to the upheaval of making a drastic transcontinental move! (Again!)

You sound like such a wonderful daughter Smith and I'm sure your mother is so grateful for all of your sacrifices

 

[mlk]

Then Smith's assumption that your DH does not want to go back was correct. That changes things entirely. If he truly wanted to go back and support his parents, then I would feel for him. However, he is essentially being bullied to go back and that's a horrible thing to do to your child. I really feel for you OP, you are definitely in a tough situation. Unless your DH learns to set boundaries, his mother's words/actions will continue to cause him grief. Would either of you consider speaking to a counselor/therapist (more for him than you, but going together would certainly be beneficial)? He really needs to sort through this and if he's having private conversations with his mom, then he's not being honest with you, his mom, or himself....

Don't get me wrong I'm sure there is a small part of him who wants to go back and help but not enough for it to be a real consideration but for the pressure from his mother. I really would wish he would agree to counseling but not going to happen unfortunately.

 

[mlk]

Wow, Mlk, you are in a tough spot. I really have no good advice for you. It does sound like you DH really doesn't want to go back, but it also seems like he is going to need to come to that decision by himself. Parents that controlling are hard for anyone to let go of. Hopefully, when he weighs all the pros and cons of your life in Sydney vs. Ireland he will come to the right decision. It took my DH a long time to take my side of things over his mother. She is not quite as controlling as your MIL but we still had issues. I hope he sees things clearly soon. I know you would want to help them if they truly needed it, but this is just manipulation.

Thanks luv2sparkle. You are lucky to have a DH like that. I do think he sees what he and his mother are doing but I also think he probably knows that I am not going to leave him and he is too weak to man up and tell his mother. Actually I think he believes that they will not ever want to see him again if he does that

 

[mlk]

This. Sounds like your DH needs individual counseling to get over his mommy-issues.

Sounds something like what the counsellor told him several years ago when he went, that's why he doesn't want to go again!

 

[mlk]

Mlk, I feel for you in this situation, with one young child this is no time to contend with this kind of uncertainty. I'm from Ireland and can say that the manipulative selfishness you're seeing is not cultural. But, youngest children are usually doted on to the point of latent irresponsibility. It's sure to say your DH is stuck helplessly in this too-close relationship and that his mother is scheming and unfair. The fact that his discussions with her are private is ample proof that all is not well between your DH and them or you.

I'll make a guess and say he's putting up statements that both sides want to hear, and hoping it all goes away. I think your challenge here is to query him about his feelings and intentions (and worry about hurting everyone) and help him crystallize his position (he might find this very difficult in an enmeshed position, Gypsy has the right of it above) and take responsibility one way or the other. Easier said than done of course, but you're obviously coming from a place of love, concern and gentility and in that sense you can't go wrong.

I agree with your take on where to be to raise children, the Irish economy has been belly-up for years at this point and no-one knows where it's going (as you know). And ultimately it is a fact that his first family is you and your child and that your feelings and needs are paramount to the health and success of that family. Okay, wishing you a smooth win-win resolution.

Thank you for you input Aeolianarpa. I really do think he is telling us both what we want to hear, probably knowing when push comes to shove he can find another excuse. I guess I am so upset this time because I feel so guilty that my son hasn't been christened and I'm not even particularly religious. I guess I feel like I am letting him down because of it.

Can you comment at all on the Irish health system particularly in the midlands?

 

[mlk]

MIL is unreasonable.
having discussions w/o you his unreasonable.
siblings in Ireland already?
they can and should be doing what is necessary.
there is no guarantee that even if you move to Ireland that at the end of her life you will be in the will......a will can be very easily changed. additionally, Irish law may have something to say about siblings and inheritance.......
it would be a definite "no" for me.

for the record, my husband is from the AU. he was planning to leave the country when he met me..........and he didn't. imo, he made his choice.

Absolutely wills can be changed and contested. I do not want a cent from them now or in their will and neither does DH. We are very able to make a comfortable life for ourselves

 

[mlk]

I just finished reading through this whole thread and others have been more eloquent than me but all I can say is -

No. No. No. Do NOT go.

I like your style, not sure it would go down though!

 

[mlk]

I just finished reading through this whole thread and others have been more eloquent than me but all I can say is -

No. No. No. Do NOT go.

This. My fear is that if you DID move to Ireland, it still wouldn't be enough. The demands for attention would only grow from there.
In other words, giving into these demands will only fuel the fire.

I have thought that too Kaekae. I think there would be three people in our marriage if we were to go

 

[mlk]

Fancy your mil offering to disinherit all of DH's siblings and their families just to get you over there.
She sounds like a piece of work!

Lara I've called her that to other people (my friends) so many times. It's funny how DH doesn't see it though

 

[mlk]

No, you are NOT being unreasonable. I think you would be miserable if you moved. First, you met your husband in your country when he was living there. Its not like you met him in Ireland and he is living in your country because you convinced him to. He was living there when you met.

Now here is the HUGE red flag I see and why I would be really really careful to move. And if you were my daughter I would tell you to not do it. His mother sounds HUGELY manipulative. HUGELY. The red flag I see is that she told him she would leave him EVERYTHING in her will? Really? And he is one of 6 kids, but she said she would leave him everything? if I were one of 6 kids not only would I not want that, but it would be a huge source of tension among the siblings. No parent in their right mind would leave everything in their will to one child, and let along use it as an incentive to get them to do what they want. I'm sorry, but if I were you that would prevent me from agreeing (among other things) it would be the final straw for me.

He is having "closed door discussions" with her where she is trying to guilt him to moving and then he tried to convince you based on her conversations. If she is causing this much tension from another continent away, imaging if you are in a small town.

I am from a major city in the U.S. and moved to another part of the country with my ex husband to a small town near his family. I gave up my career and family and was miserable. We ended up moving again 1,000 miles away from either one of our families (he pressured me on both moves) and even though I still felt homesick, it was so much better not being near his manipulative family.

And a word of caution if you move, nobody plans on divorce but if you do end up moving and getting divorced, you may be STUCK in that country. I don't know how divorce laws are there. I never thought I would end up divorced but things fell apart and I needed to get divorced to protect my kids. But because of the laws here, I can't move out of state with my kids. So I'm stuck here until my youngest is grown. I have made a life here and am actually happy now but it was really really hard and I would not wish It on anyone.

Asscherisme thank you for sharing your story and I'm sorry things took a turn for the worst with your marriage and you are stuck in a different state. You're right no one ever plans to divorce and I certainly don't but would never do it in a country outside of Australia as I know the risks.

 

[LaraOnline]

Fancy your mil offering to disinherit all of DH's siblings and their families just to get you over there.
She sounds like a piece of work!

Lara I've called her that to other people (my friends) so many times. It's funny how DH doesn't see it though

Sorry milk, I felt guilty after writing that comment, but couldn't edit. My apologies. I feel bad for you.
For your child's sake, you need to consider any possible move very carefully. What opportunities can Ireland offer? I was struck by the drinking and drug culture the short time I was visiting relatives in the UK. But your outlook may be very different.....? There must be some benefits, frankly though if she's not supportive of you, you will be in a difficult position. Would you be able to work over there? You may get more help with the kids... :s

Eta: still no way I'd agree to go though personally, I'd be talking up her coming to you...

If DH wants you to go there, he needs to help her work on her relationship with you. You can't be expected to move to the other side of the world if your only support group is hostile and dysfunctional.
Why, for example, are you discouraged from speaking to the sister in Australia? I find that strange.

 

[Rhea]

No, you are NOT being unreasonable. I think you would be miserable if you moved. First, you met your husband in your country when he was living there. Its not like you met him in Ireland and he is living in your country because you convinced him to. He was living there when you met.

Now here is the HUGE red flag I see and why I would be really really careful to move. And if you were my daughter I would tell you to not do it. His mother sounds HUGELY manipulative. HUGELY. The red flag I see is that she told him she would leave him EVERYTHING in her will? Really? And he is one of 6 kids, but she said she would leave him everything? if I were one of 6 kids not only would I not want that, but it would be a huge source of tension among the siblings. No parent in their right mind would leave everything in their will to one child, and let along use it as an incentive to get them to do what they want. I'm sorry, but if I were you that would prevent me from agreeing (among other things) it would be the final straw for me.

He is having "closed door discussions" with her where she is trying to guilt him to moving and then he tried to convince you based on her conversations. If she is causing this much tension from another continent away, imaging if you are in a small town.

I am from a major city in the U.S. and moved to another part of the country with my ex husband to a small town near his family. I gave up my career and family and was miserable. We ended up moving again 1,000 miles away from either one of our families (he pressured me on both moves) and even though I still felt homesick, it was so much better not being near his manipulative family.

And a word of caution if you move, nobody plans on divorce but if you do end up moving and getting divorced, you may be STUCK in that country. I don't know how divorce laws are there. I never thought I would end up divorced but things fell apart and I needed to get divorced to protect my kids. But because of the laws here, I can't move out of state with my kids. So I'm stuck here until my youngest is grown. I have made a life here and am actually happy now but it was really really hard and I would not wish It on anyone.

Asscherisme thank you for sharing your story and I'm sorry things took a turn for the worst with your marriage and you are stuck in a different state. You're right no one ever plans to divorce and I certainly don't but would never do it in a country outside of Australia as I know the risks.

You wouldn't necessarily get to choose unless you only ever claimed residence in Australia.

I'm from the States and currently live in the UK with my husband. We met when I did a semester abroad at university. Your post has bought up a lot of points that we have had to consider as a couple. We were both willing to move for the other when we had to pick a country at the time we got married, but as we've settled in I've realised that DH will never go to the States. I mostly agree with him and do chose to live here without pressure from my family. My extended family, mother, and sister are all brilliant in not pushing for me to move back. My father mentions it but is quickly shushed by my mother and sister - I think they just want a nice place to visit But... It's something I think about. Especially when I realise my parents are getting older and there have been a couple incidents in the past year that had me in tears over how far away I am. DH has no real close family, I do. I dread to think what would happen if we had children and divorced. I'd be tied to England forever with very little in the way of friends or family for support.

I'm sorry to hear that you're having trouble. I don't think you're being unreasonable in the least. And it sounds like practically speaking your husband agrees with you. It's too bad that your MIL is being manipulative in her efforts to persuade her son to return to Ireland. I can't imagine the pressure that would put on me if I were in the same situation. How terrible for your both! Is there anyway you can get your DH to open up to you about what's going on in his head?

 

[Smith1942]

Thanks for your good wishes, mlk and momhappy. My mum is doing really really well, you would never know there is anything wrong with her, the bone-strengthening injections and cancer drug have resurrected her from a wheelchair and she is skipping about like a March hare. She is coming to the States for Thanksgiving! But at some point, the drugs will cease to work and it will travel from her bones to her organs. When this will happen, no one knows. Statistics say a couple of years, but she could live much longer as there is a long tail on the survival graph. The waiting is the hardest. Another terminal patient on breastcancer.org said, "I can't believe it's going to happen - I don't feel that bad, only a little tired." That would apply to my mum, I think.

Having a sick relative far away in another country hasn't been as bad in reality as I imagined it. You just visit as much as you can and speak on the phone as much as you can. Two healthy parents are in no way a reason to move home!

OP, it's great news that your DH does not want, in any way, to move home. That means, in reality, you don't have a problem! The only problem is the pressure messing with his head.

When I was under tremendous pressure to reproduce after marriage from all the religious conservatives around me, I had to develop a pressure-proof skin. The pressure used to make me tremendously angry - that they thought they could weigh in on a matter of such intense intimacy.

But I really healed on that issue when I realised that they were completely, utterly powerless. They could go on as much as they liked, but they couldn't tie me down and force me to get pregnant. Then, I just felt sorry for them that they wanted something so much but were dependent on someone else to fulfill their desires. Similarly, your MIL is completely powerless over your lives. What's she going to do - come to Australia, tuck each of you under one arm, and physically cart you back to Ireland? I think your DH could benefit from some individual counselling to realise the true extent of his autonomy as an adult. Controlling parents with no boundaries can really mess with that perception in your head. He needs to realise anew that his mother is completely, utterly, totally powerless over him and that she has zero choice in where he lives, and he can do exactly what he wants, and that he is the only one holding the reins of his own life.

Since neither of you want to go, and no one can make you, the only problem is this illusion of control. Whatever means your MIL is using to give the impression of power, it is just that - an illusion. She is completely powerless. Counselling could help break the MIL's spell.

You also said he is afraid if he doesn't go that they will never talk to him again. Firstly, I doubt that is true - that is another part of this illusion of power. However, counselling will talk him through his fears if the worst should happen. If they don't talk to him, so what? He has five siblings, presumably siblings-in-law, nieces, nephews, cousins, aunts, uncles, friends, a wife, a son, and hopefully another child. The counsellor will help him see that if his fears about being cut off by his parents came true, the world would continue to turn and he would be A-OK.

I think your DH would find some good counselling would set him free from his parents' illusion of power, and make him more confident in rebuffing their nonsense and basically living without their approval - and also, help him to realise afresh that he is an adult with total autonomy, and that he deserves that autonomy. That the only one who controls his life is him.

Jeez, controlling parents really have a LOT to answer for, don't they!

 

[aljdewey]

If I were in this situation, I'd aim to work toward a middle-ground solution. Instead of moving there, I'd try to find avenues to let DH go home for a month at a time 2-3 times a year to help provide care for her parents if he feels that strongly about the obligation.

I realize this wouldn't be an ideal situation, of course, but I'd rather live with less than ideal instead of standing behind an all-or-nothing solution that might have us resenting one another later on.

 

[amc80]

Well, now I have to know what the gift was....

 

[february2003bride]

If I were in this situation, I'd aim to work toward a middle-ground solution. Instead of moving there, I'd try to find avenues to let DH go home for a month at a time 2-3 times a year to help provide care for her parents if he feels that strongly about the obligation.

I realize this wouldn't be an ideal situation, of course, but I'd rather live with less than ideal instead of standing behind an all-or-nothing solution that might have us resenting one another later on.

This. DH's parents came to stay with us for 2 weeks recently, and to survive it, DH and I went to counseling before, a few times during, and right after their visit. This was by far the smoothest visit because of the therapist. What she mainly did was help us find middle ground on issues involving his parents. DH is normally a very reasonable, go with the flow guy. Bring anything up with his parents and he immediately become defenses and his temper FLAIRS, even if he agrees with the complaint. DH is Indian and while he doesn't identify with the Indian culture, his parents still very much do (as they should). It can cause some pretty bad arguments, particularly over boundaries. DH's parents have no boundaries when it comes to anything. The list is long on which boundaries get overstepped.

Anyway, there is the reality that DH's parents may come live with us or near us some day. I. Dread. That. Day. My husband will no longer be mine. They lived by us for a year, a decade ago and I am not exaggerating when I say, they saw him more during his waking/non working hours than I did, and we had two kids, one being a newborn, and had moved to a new area, and I was working. It sucked and I look back at my second year of marriage and my oldest son's first year and it was crap.

Do everything you can to find a middle ground so keep from moving there. The history of lack of boundaries and playing of favorites is long, and living close by will make it much worse.

Best of luck. It sucks when family makes life crappy.

 

[Circe]

Thanks for your good wishes, mlk and momhappy. My mum is doing really really well, you would never know there is anything wrong with her, the bone-strengthening injections and cancer drug have resurrected her from a wheelchair and she is skipping about like a March hare. She is coming to the States for Thanksgiving! But at some point, the drugs will cease to work and it will travel from her bones to her organs. When this will happen, no one knows. Statistics say a couple of years, but she could live much longer as there is a long tail on the survival graph. The waiting is the hardest. Another terminal patient on breastcancer.org said, "I can't believe it's going to happen - I don't feel that bad, only a little tired." That would apply to my mum, I think.

Having a sick relative far away in another country hasn't been as bad in reality as I imagined it. You just visit as much as you can and speak on the phone as much as you can. Two healthy parents are in no way a reason to move home!

OP, it's great news that your DH does not want, in any way, to move home. That means, in reality, you don't have a problem! The only problem is the pressure messing with his head.

When I was under tremendous pressure to reproduce after marriage from all the religious conservatives around me, I had to develop a pressure-proof skin. The pressure used to make me tremendously angry - that they thought they could weigh in on a matter of such intense intimacy.

But I really healed on that issue when I realised that they were completely, utterly powerless. They could go on as much as they liked, but they couldn't tie me down and force me to get pregnant. Then, I just felt sorry for them that they wanted something so much but were dependent on someone else to fulfill their desires. Similarly, your MIL is completely powerless over your lives. What's she going to do - come to Australia, tuck each of you under one arm, and physically cart you back to Ireland? I think your DH could benefit from some individual counselling to realise the true extent of his autonomy as an adult. Controlling parents with no boundaries can really mess with that perception in your head. He needs to realise anew that his mother is completely, utterly, totally powerless over him and that she has zero choice in where he lives, and he can do exactly what he wants, and that he is the only one holding the reins of his own life.

Since neither of you want to go, and no one can make you, the only problem is this illusion of control. Whatever means your MIL is using to give the impression of power, it is just that - an illusion. She is completely powerless. Counselling could help break the MIL's spell.

You also said he is afraid if he doesn't go that they will never talk to him again. Firstly, I doubt that is true - that is another part of this illusion of power. However, counselling will talk him through his fears if the worst should happen. If they don't talk to him, so what? He has five siblings, presumably siblings-in-law, nieces, nephews, cousins, aunts, uncles, friends, a wife, a son, and hopefully another child. The counsellor will help him see that if his fears about being cut off by his parents came true, the world would continue to turn and he would be A-OK.

I think your DH would find some good counselling would set him free from his parents' illusion of power, and make him more confident in rebuffing their nonsense and basically living without their approval - and also, help him to realise afresh that he is an adult with total autonomy, and that he deserves that autonomy. That the only one who controls his life is him.

Jeez, controlling parents really have a LOT to answer for, don't they!

This is a very, very, very wise post, particularly on the issue of control.

My parents disowned me 4 times before I was legal, over various issues (best friends with a black guy, dating a Puerto Rican guy, moving out at the age of 19, you get the conservatively framed picture). Each time, they took it back - it was a way for them to try to force me to accede to their wishes and prove I loved them best, and the bottom line was that their desire for control was nothing but a symptom of an unhealthy co-dependency, which only got more intense as I matured.

Eventually, we achieved equilibrium, but it took, a) some ugly fights, b) my realizing that it didn't have to be this hard after I met some people with "normal" families, and, c), my having a child of my own and realizing there was no way in hell I ever wanted to subject him to this sort of drama. I'm sure everybody has a different breaking point.

... But add me to the chorus of people recommending he try therapy. Something about having a fairly intelligent random stranger pick at the justifications you're making to yourself can be really effective on clarifying what it is you actually want, as opposed to what you THINK you want. Or, for that matter, what other people tell you you SHOULD want ....

 

[texaskj]

I just finished reading through this whole thread and others have been more eloquent than me but all I can say is -

No. No. No. Do NOT go.

This. My fear is that if you DID move to Ireland, it still wouldn't be enough. The demands for attention would only grow from there.
In other words, giving into these demands will only fuel the fire.

This times 100. No matter what your husband does it won't be enough for this woman.
My maternal grandmother had a sister close in age to her. She had a daughter close in age to my mom. She had a daughter close in age to me. All three of them lived in the same little town and didn't eat, breath or sneeze without asking the other two first. And my grandmother was so jealous of them. She wanted us to be the same. I figured this out before my mom did and had to explain to her that no matter how much she called or visited, it would never be enough. My grandmother wasn't going to be happy until one of us didn't eat, breath or sneeze without asking the other two first.
Can you say control freak?

And I can't help but ask, what was in the box?

 

[LaraOnline]

But I really healed on that issue when I realised that they were completely, utterly powerless. They could go on as much as they liked, but they couldn't tie me down and force me to get pregnant. Then, I just felt sorry for them that they wanted something so much but were dependent on someone else to fulfill their desires. Similarly, your MIL is completely powerless over your lives. What's she going to do - come to Australia, tuck each of you under one arm, and physically cart you back to Ireland? I think your DH could benefit from some individual counselling to realise the true extent of his autonomy as an adult. Controlling parents with no boundaries can really mess with that perception in your head. He needs to realise anew that his mother is completely, utterly, totally powerless over him and that she has zero choice in where he lives, and he can do exactly what he wants, and that he is the only one holding the reins of his own life.

Since neither of you want to go, and no one can make you, the only problem is this illusion of control. Whatever means your MIL is using to give the impression of power, it is just that - an illusion. She is completely powerless. Counselling could help break the MIL's spell.

wow, great post, Smith!

Regarding solving the problem, it is probably important to maintain a goal of improving relations, (eg refraining from pointless name calling), while maintaining a steely-strong inner clarity over what you do and don't want, short, medium and long term.

You seem very thoughtful OP, I hope the amazing thread is bouying you up!

 

[mlk]

Thanks everyone. Don't have time for a proper reply as my son has finally gone to sleep, it's midnight! The parcel was actually from my SIL who was visiting Ireland, a first birthday present for my son. I kinda jumped the gun there didn't I!

Was such an exhausting day today so no more discussions with DH

 

[cm366]

It sounds like you and your DH are both trying to preserve and protect your lives together, and both being more reasonable about it than many people would achieve. It's important to remember that posters here are more of a support group for you than an objective therapist - we're only hearing your side of the story.

It doesn't sound unreasonable to me that your DH wants to be able to have private phone conversations with his mother, but that may be how your marriage is set up - that's not unworkable, but it seems like it would require a very high degree of nonjudgmental sharing and teamwork. You should both have a voice in how you'll relate to the challenges you face, whether it's the financial, health or educational implications of moving. All of those might be severe (the Irish health system is actually quite good and very similar to Australia's, but it's certainly true that going rural whether in Ireland or Australia will restrict your access to specialty care. The major difference is that Ireland does not fully subsidize care for citizens over a certain income threshold, but most Aussies in your area will have private health anyway). You also have a right to ask him to seek counseling or discuss the problem with you if it's troubling you this much!

There are probably more people around the world who have strong (cultural or personally driven) relationships with their parents than otherwise. It's absolute crap to say that it's unhealthy for an adult to maintain a strong relationship with their own family, or that marriage requires putting your spouse and kids' desires above any kind of interaction with your siblings/parents. You set your own boundaries and define your own needs/relationships - your spouse does the same. If theirs aren't acceptable to you, you can talk with them about it or try to show them how you feel, but telling them it's unhealthy for them to prioritize their parents over you is not the opener for a reasonable discussion. Similarly, it might be important to find a counsellor who will approach your DH without telling him that he has 'mommy issues' or demonizing her - it's perfectly legitimate for him to have a balanced regard for his mother and her needs without the manipulative, guilt-tripping control freak verbiage.

 

[LaraOnline]

However, although I apologised for my public name-calling in my confusing post earlier (and not the sentiment, btw) I do think it extremely unreasonable - even a bit crazy - for a mother would offer to strike the other siblings and their families from her will in her effort to have the son return...

I also think it strange that the OP is not encouraged to form close relations with her in-laws, even an in-law that is living in the country...
and then there was the carry-on when OP's own parents were requiring serious medical attention.

there are more than a few warning bells in my view.

My mother-in-law was quite upset for some years when her eldest boy (my husband) married me. I was hurt at the rejection, and the effort to shut me out seemed childish and unfair. She has more than come around in the end though, and we are great friends! I have offered her a friendship that her own son never could provide. And as a result, she respects my relationship, and my priorities.

You have to make the effort to attempt connection, OP, but not at the expense of your dignity, nor the best interests of your children, or indeed your own future prospects.

 

[luv2sparkle]

Smith, you are right on the money with your post! So true!

 

[pregcurious]

I've read most of the first posts. I wish I could talk to you in person about my experience taking care of my parents, and I took responsibility and did not put it on my husband. Your DH really needs to decide if he things it's reasonable to move his family to Ireland to take care of his mother. If he truly thinks it is reasonable, then you know him better. I guess that means he should be willing to move at any time for your parents, even if you are all in a different country.

 

[distracts]

Quite frankly, if your husband can't learn to set boundaries and stand up for the things he really WANTS rather than the things his mother is guilt-tripping him into, your relationship is effectively over. It's no longer a relationship between you and your husband but between you and your MIL. Does he really think the guilt-trips will get better once he's in Ireland? If you do have a baby once there, and have to go an hour each way to the appropriate medical facilities every week, how do you think the in-laws are going to feel about that cutting into their time with your husband? You'll probably have to live a distance from them and have long drives into work, and if you want to make similar incomes you'll have to work very long hours, which will also interfere with their time with him. Is he going to be YOUR husband or your MIL's lackey? Given the mental anguish she seems to already be causing, I'd not bet that it will get better when he caves and moves. I would think it will only get worse. That he is unwilling to recognize the dysfunctionality or go to counseling does not fill me with hope that this situation will get better.

When I first met him, my husband could be easily guilt-tripped by his parents. Usually he dealt with this by just not talking to them, but as the wedding approached that method of dealing with it went out the window, and he started dealing with it by caving over whatever they wanted because he "needed" to, even though it wasn't what he really wanted. I finally had to tell him that he had to say no to his mother and stand up for how he really felt or I was packing my stuff and walking out the door. At a certain point, if he's only listening to the bigger bitch, I had to be the bigger bitch. That was a year and a half ago and there haven't been any problems since (we also went to couples counseling). We still see his parents but it's clear that he isn't letting them make him feel bad about things he really shouldn't feel bad about anymore. I think I just gave him the kick he needed to get out of the pattern he'd been in with them since childhood, and then going to counseling reinforced it and helped him create a healthier relationship.

My other piece of advice is not to have another child with him until it is sorted out. If he can't commit to your relationship and being fully open about what he wants, what his mother is telling him, etc, bringing another kid into it is the WRONG move. I'd also consider the child-care options available... given how horrible and manipulative MIL seems, I would want to avoid a situation in which SHE is your childcare option, and your children turn out mind****ed.

 

[Smith1942]

There is no chance of them moving across the globe to Ireland. The OP has already said that her husband considers such a move to be "suicide". Neither of them want to go in the slightest, therefore I highly doubt it would actually happen.

The problem is the emotional strain the MIL continues to put on the husband from afar. The root of the matter is that the husband needs to deal with his mother, and to realise how wrong she is to demand this move, and he needs some counselling to get her out of his head and reinforce his emotional boundaries regarding her. I think it's a little strong to tell the OP her relationship is over. Many, many of us have a controlling parent, and it seems that a large number of marriages find themselves in a position where they have to deal with the immaturity, selfishness, and entitlement of at least one parent among the potential four. I think this is very common, sadly. The trouble is, parents get away with it until the adult child gets married, and then all hell breaks loose. I speak somewhat from experience.

The husband can't possibly be happy with his mother making him feel so bad, and if he decides to deal with it by reinforcing boundaries and getting it clear in his head that she has no right to demand a global move from a family that doesn't want to make that move, then all will be A-OK. Once he realises how wrong and how selfish this demand is, things will fall into place.

Once you've been put under enough pressure for long enough, the outcome is most likely to be a refreshment of boundaries, not a caving to the person's demands. Why do I say that? Because the things that are demanded are so huge. I mean, no one packs up their entire life and moves to the other side of the world when they consider it suicide. Likewise, regarding the baby pressure I was under in my first years of marriage, no woman gets pregnant when it's the last thing she wants, solely to please others. Global moves, a child - these are ENORMOUS things to demand of others and people don't do those massive things unless they want to.

For me, certainly, the pressure - after a LONG time - led me to realise how incredibly wrong people were to demand a baby of me, like it was their right. (And believe me, they acted as if it was their right.) I thought about the fact that it's my body, no one else's, all the things that could go wrong, the fact that THEY weren't paying for its upbringing, the fact that THEY wouldn't be on permanent night duty for sickness, bad dreams, etc. and thinking about all those things threw into sharp relief how bad they were to make those demands. At that point, actually, I lost all respect for the baby-screamers. Since then, I've really viewed them as kids themselves, screaming for candy, no matter what it costs Mommy. "I want candy! I want it now! I want a baby! I want you to move across the world! I don't care what you want - I want what I want, and I want it NOW!" The OP's mother is behaving like this. Once he realises this, he will lose most of his respect for her and setting boundaries will be easy. He has to reach the point, as I did, that they might be loved ones but they are selfish, immature and wrong on this issue, and as a result, you don't give a flying duck what they want, much less care. It's easy to be like that with strangers or non-family members, but with parents, it's more of a process.

In a nutshell, when it comes to big things like global moves/kids, you've GOT to put what you want as a couple first (and this couple doesn't want to move). Otherwise you will live your entire lives for someone else. No one does that, and I don't think they will, but if you let them, some very selfish, nasty people will make your life difficult until you either a) confront them and have some family ugliness or b) stop caring.

My husband has an effective strategy for people like this. When they start, he leaves the situation. If on the phone, he suddenly remembers what he has to do and gets off it, or in person he does the same. The person soon gets the Pavlovian message that if they bring up the subject, they will be cut off. Or, if someone says something and he can't leave, he simply will not answer them and pretends they haven't spoken - another way of cutting off the unwanted subject. When I was transitioning to America, my sister would often be nasty to me on the phone. The SECOND she started on me, I'd say swiftly, "Oh, there's someone at the door, got to go!' or "The dinner's boiling over, gotta go, bye!" and I didn't have to do that too many times before she gave up starting on me over the phone.

A general observation re. marriages and family of origin - this is not regarding the OP, but in general:

Since I and my peers have met our partners, got engaged, married, been married for a while and perhaps reproduced, I have been amazed at the capacity for some in-laws/parents to negatively affect the marriages of their adult children. It is nothing short of wicked. Marriages are sacred. Yet some of these parents seem to think nothing of putting their adult children under such stress that they tear their marriages apart. I wish there was some body or some law to deal with them, because what some of them do to the family unit is outrageous. There should be a Society for the Protection of Marriages from Parents!

And, the thing that really rubs salt in the wound, is that many of these problem parents, as I think of them, lived their own lives away from their own parents and never had to put up with this sort of nonsense, but feel fine about inflicting it on their own kids' marriages! I can see my sister being like this. She is an incredibly selfish woman, with three lovely kids, and lives about a 3-hour drive from my parents. Since my mother was re-diagnosed terminally a year ago, my sister has not seen her one iota more than she normally would - which is about ten days a year. She refuses point-blank to see them at Easter, and absolutely will not host them for more than three days at Christmas, every other year, even to the extent of leaving them alone for Christmas if it's not her turn. But she takes, takes, takes. Example: Mum pays for her very expensive haircuts. This Friday, she is driving down to my parents' house on Friday night, will get her hair cut first thing Saturday morning and then leaves right after the haircut, spending minimal time with Mum but taking her money. Even the eight-year-old granddaughter said to my mum, "We don't see you very much, do we?" BUT, you can bet your bottom dollar that when her own kids are grown, my sister will be inflicting herself on them right, left and centre, and she has indicated as such.

Marriages should come with a problem parent warning, like beaches with sharks. There probably won't be any, but be prepared to fight back with all you've got if one comes along.