Am I being unreasonable - DH wants to return to Ireland

[mlk]

I feel like I have no one to talk to about this IRL,so here it goes.

I am Australian and DH is Irish. He has been living here for 10 years and was in the uk for 4 years before that. We have been together for 9 years, married for 2.5 and have a 10 month old son.

The only issue we have ever had in our relationship is MIL's pressure on DH to return to Ireland and look after them "until they die". DH is the youngest of 6 in his family, being 10 years younger than the next. 3 siblings live within half an hour of his parents smack bang in the centre of Ireland.

It seems every 6 months or so this issue rears its ugly head. DH and his mother have all these closed door conversations then DH becomes all withdrawn and refuses to commit to any future plans and it then turns out that when pushed he says he "needs" to go back to Ireland to look after his parents.

Well it has just happened again when I was pushing him to book flights for a visit and to have our son christened over there as we have not been back since our wedding. Turns out his mother has offered him money to go back. This is after she has previously offered to leave everything to him in her will.

I really do not want to go as we would really struggle to get work there, own a house and have a mortgage here, have a wonderful quality of life here in Sydney and probably my biggest reason (apart from being so close to his mother) is that I really want to have another child but had severe complications with my son who was 2 months premature and I have been given a 50% chance of it happening again, so I couldn't feel comfortable about having another pregnancy in small town Ireland compared to the amazing facilities I have here and being an only child would never ever wish to have one myself.

So am I being unreasonable? Any ideas on how to best handle this situation?

 

[justginger]

My sympathies that you're dealing with this situation - international relationships can be very difficult (and I mean that in the sense that while you're together, you're of different nationalities).

For what it's worth, I think this will be a concern for myself in the future as my parents age. I enjoy a lifestyle here that I would simply never have obtained if I had remained in the States and not moved to Australia. I imagine it is the same for your husband - the economy in Ireland is very poor indeed, as is the weather, lol. I can't imagine you would be as financially secure there as you are down here. However, the pull of family is strong. My parents are a-ok (touch wood) now, but the time will inevitably come that I imagine I'll face the same thoughts and feelings as your husband.

What is the solution? I honestly don't know. My plan at this point is to keep doing what I'm doing down here, and make sure to set aside a very good amount of savings. In the case I am needed, DH and I will then be in a position that we could afford for me to quit my job and return to the States for as long as necessary. We're very seriously entertaining the idea of buying an investment property there in the next 5 years, when our house here is paid off. Perhaps that is something you could discuss with your husband? Keep living life down here, visiting Ireland once a year or so, and then making sure you have sufficient savings for him to go back if really NEEDED. Sometimes just knowing that it's a possibility, if really needed, is enough to provide comfort and security to the person who is far away from family.

 

[Meezermom]

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. You are from Australia, where I assume you have family, and where you and your DH have made a good life for yourselves. Why in the world would anyone want to relocate to another country to become caretakers to their spouse's elderly parents. Especially since he comes from a large family and he's the youngest. You didn't sign up for that. The fact that he's even considering this despite how you feel is troubling. The fact that he discusses this behind closed doors, without your involvement, and with his mother is even more troubling. Maybe you need to consider a third party like a marriage counselor to be able to tell him that you are not uprooting yourself or your son to relocate to another country to become caretakers for his elderly parents. He's your husband and partner, and he should stand with you. You can assist with their help by visiting frequently and perhaps financially at times. In other words, there are other ways to be supportive without giving up your lives for people who have already lived a majority of theirs.

Maybe they can consider uprooting themselves and move to Australia.

 

[misssoph]

I am curious as to why the pressure is on him as one of six, or have the other 5 already declined to move back in?

Family expectations are not always fair and some time there is a long term expectation that a particular family member will care for the parents, but usually this seems to work out to be a daughter. I would just wonder if the pressure is on your husband who left the country 14 years ago rather then on the children who have been geographically closer,and presumably able to have more regular contact, that your mother in law is not very difficult to get on with prolonged contact and the others have distanced themselves for self protection????

Are you on good enough terms with any of your sister in laws, perhaps other spouses of her mother in laws kids to have a quiet chat to find out what has been happening over the last few years when it isn't holiday time.

 

[momhappy]

You are not being unreasonable, but by the same account, neither is your husband.
You both have a desire to do something (he wants to move, you don't want to move). The issue then becomes how to resolve the situation. Is it possible for your husband to speak with his other siblings about the situation? The practical solution seems to be that the other siblings (who already live in Ireland) could be the ones to care for the parents, but since that has not been brought up as a viable option, clearly there must be more to this than meets the eye. It sounds to me like this issue is bigger than it seems and you need to come to some sort of compromise to resolve it. What is your husband's opinion on having a second child? Does he understand your reasoning for wanting to try for another child in Australia as opposed to Ireland? Would it be possible to formulate some sort of plan where you might consider moving some time after you've had your second child?
Personally, I can sort of relate to these sorts of family issues. My life has pretty much centered around my husband's family over the years, so I know how it feels and if you're not careful, it can create resentment as your husband continues to feel that his needs/wants are not being met.

 

[momhappy]

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. You are from Australia, where I assume you have family, and where you and your DH have made a good life for yourselves. Why in the world would anyone want to relocate to another country to become caretakers to their spouse's elderly parents. Especially since he comes from a large family and he's the youngest. You didn't sign up for that. The fact that he's even considering this despite how you feel is troubling. The fact that he discusses this behind closed doors, without your involvement, and with his mother is even more troubling. Maybe you need to consider a third party like a marriage counselor to be able to tell him that you are not uprooting yourself or your son to relocate to another country to become caretakers for his elderly parents. He's your husband and partner, and he should stand with you. You can assist with their help by visiting frequently and perhaps financially at times. In other words, there are other ways to be supportive without giving up your lives for people who have already lived a majority of theirs.

Maybe they can consider uprooting themselves and move to Australia.

Why would anyone want to move to another country and become caretakers for their souse's parents? Because you married someone who has family in another country, you've known that your spouse has strong feelings about moving back, and marriage is about compromise.

Since they have been together several years, I'm guessing that the OP knew fairly early on in their relationship that the distance between her spouse and his family might become an issue (and OP admitted that it has been an ongoing issue). Your line of reasoning is about the same as saying, "Why in the world would anyone want to live in an entirely different country from their parents and not have the ability to care for them as they want/need to?" I imagine that OPs spouse has probably always thought that perhaps he is the one who could best support/care for his parents and in the back of his mind, he's been open to the fact that it would require him to move at some point. My point is that it's unfair for both of them - it's unfair to expect her to pick up and move and it's unfair to expect him to stay and ignore the needs/wants of his aging parents.
I have children and I would hate to think that one day, my son's spouse would keep my son away from me. A short while back, my husband told me that my in-laws wanted to move near us and I was very hesitant at first (there are some fairly serious issues that could create routine problems). I sat on it and didn't speak much about it until I had mulled it over for a while. The conclusion I came to was that if they wanted to move here, then so be it. It helped me to think of it in terms of my own children. I thought about how very close I am to my own son and what if someday he wanted to be close to me, but his wife kept him away? I realized that I didn't want to be the wife that kept a son away from his mother (or in this case, to keep my husband away from his aging mom).
Don't get me wrong, I realize that children grow up, move on, etc. and that's perfectly normal. I certainly don't expect that my children will never leave my side. I'm guessing that as adults, they will live away from me and I can only hope to see them on a fairly regular basis. I would be crushed if I couldn't see my kids for great lengths of time - I'm guessing that's how OP's MIL feels. She misses her son and it's important to keep that in mind, which is not to say that OP needs to pick up and move, but a compromise needs to be made.

 

[House Cat]

Why is the mother so set on having your dh take care of them? She offered the entire inheritance to him, basically ignoring the rest of the children. There must be some reason? What is wrong with dh's siblings? Are they irresponsible? Drug addicted? Mean spirited? Selfish? What's the story behind these people?

Is the mother and dh enmeshed? Is their bond unhealthy? If so, this is something that must be explored in counseling.

 

[momhappy]

^Yes, there must be some explanation, especially considering that some of the other siblings already live in Ireland.
Having said that, it's not uncommon for families to have more "capable" siblings than others in terms of care taking for aging parents. My DH and I both have several siblings and out of all of us, DH and I would be best-suited to care for our parents despite the fact that other siblings live in closer proximity to our parents. For us, we are more financially stable, as well as more emotionally/mentally stable, so it just makes sense that we would have a greater ability to care for our parents if need be. Maybe, in this particular case, the MIL has missed her son (OPs spouse) since he moved away and that's why she has asked him to return home? I suppose that there could be any number of reasons (both healthy and unhealthy).

 

[marymm]

Sometimes within families there are special bonds, if you will, that form between a parent and child over and above the usual parent-child relationship -- I am the middle child of a large family and when it came time that my father (and mother) needed the care and support of one of us children, they moved out from the Midwest to my town, and then into my home (with my husband's agreement). Although all of us kids felt close with my parents and well-loved, and in fact my parents tried arrangements with 4 of my siblings before coming to my town, it was with me that everything fell together so that my parents felt comfortable and my husband and I felt comfortable that the caretaking arrangement would and did work in a beneficial and positive way. In a way, it was unexpected to me, as I had lived away from home for many years while other siblings had lived close to my parents -- yet in another way, I was the natural choice, as even far from home my adult relationship with each of my parents had evolved in a different way as compared to my siblings' relationships with them.

As a different example, my husband is the eldest of 3 children and had been estranged from his father for almost 20 years - around the time we got married he and his father began to reconcile. By the time his father needed care, my husband was his caretaker - again, it seems the relationship he and his father had, one between adults though still parent-child, enabled this arrangement to work for them both - as well, neither other sibling had the inclination let alone the skill-set to care for their dad.

I related the above to tell you that sometimes it is the sibling who went away, who may be the best person to care for his/her parents. Geographic closeness is a logical reason for choosing a caretaker, but with all that is required of parental caretaking, often the most suitable person is the one that has that extra bond with his/her parents.

I sympathize with your situation - but this about the circle of life and how you and your husband will deal with the call from his parents for his/your care and support... and of course it is also about how and what you and your husband hope for yourselves when the time comes for you both. Sometimes family and love and responsibilties require sacrifice and compromise. I hope you and your husband can have an open, honest dialog about his parents' phone calls and request, what he feels in his heart, and what both of you can decide on together as the best way to face this part of your lives.

eta: forgot to say, You are not being unreasonable -- this is a difficult situation -- sometimes there are no easy answers -- the best hope is for you and your husband to talk it through and come together on your approach.

 

[Smith1942]

Sorry you're dealing with this, Mlk. I have some insight into the international marriage situation. (I am English, my husband is British-American, born in the US but raised for 26 years in the UK by his English mum after a divorce, and I moved to the US at age 32 with him because he was desperate to return to the country of his birth. All our relatives are in the UK since my American FIL died many years ago in the Nineties. My mother has terminal cancer but is still quite well, and I've been to see her seven times this year.)

Since moving to the US, I have been amazed by how many American parents seem to expect their adult children to look after them in old age, according to what my US friends tell me about their parents and their inlaws. This expectation does not really exist in the UK, at least not nearly so strongly. I don't know why this difference exists - perhaps it's because the UK is a much less religious society than the US, and in the UK individualism is particularly strong, I think. And maybe it's because the UK is a nation of travellers, and it's quite common to emigrate permanently to somewhere with better weather and lower taxes! But the overriding attitude is that parenthood is a sacrifice willingly given and nothing is asked in return, because adult children are individuals with their own lives, and they should be free to live those lives without eventually having to pay the piper for being born.

I would be so embarrassed to ask my adult children to care for me in old age. I have many years of adulthood on them and would have saved enough money and built up enough network and carved out a place in my own community to get my care needs met without being a burden on them in middle age, when people are dealing with the problems specific to that life stage. Why would you want to put your child's marriage under strain?

So, as you may have guessed, I'm in complete agreement with Meezermom on this issue. Your MIL has three kids living within half an hour of her! Why on earth does she need her child to give up the life he has built in Australia over a decade? I'd be really embarrassed to be that selfish. How old is she? Because she could live to be 100, and then you would have lived for many many years in Ireland and might find it very hard to go back to Australia. On the other hand, let's say she lives for about three years after you move back. Then you would have uprooted yourselves for a the sake of a very short amount of time.

Someone said that the OP knew she was marrying a foreign national. This also applies to the foreign national. He was the one who moved to a foreign country and married a local, knowing that said local would have her own family and attachments to her country.

I think that some older people need to revisit the part in the Bible which says that upon marriage, a man leaves his family and cleaves to another. And the part in the marriage ceremony about forsaking all others isn't just about sexual partners, it's about putting each other and your marriage first. If you start putting your parents first, marriages fail under the strain and society suffers. Marriages are the keystone of society so they must come first, which also benefits the minor children of the marriage. The OP's MIL not only wants to uproot her son, but also her daughter-in-law and her grandchild! She wants to uproot three people, including a tiny child, all for her. And she is putting a strain on the marriage of her grandchild's parents, therefore potentially threatening her own grandchild's security.

When the OP's DH married the OP, he chose her, he chose his own family that they would have, and he chose Australia. I think he should decide that his wife and child come first.

I speak from experience; my mother is terminally ill 3,500 miles away. She is by far my favourite family member; we are very close and I love her to bits - she's an angel. However, I am not bending my husband's ear to go back and live in the UK. It's hard, yes, but I made my choices. I committed to a man who loves America, and I committed to a life in America, and that is what I am doing. When you flip-flop between choices, you can end up with a fragmented life. Part of the reason I wouldn't move back to the UK after many years over here in the US is that my finances, career, friendships, networks etc on both sides of the pond would end up in a fragmented - and therefore weakened - state. I made my choices and I stand by them.

There are other options apart from moving back. Can your MIl come and spend extended periods staying with you? If you don't work, can you take your son to visit her for a few weeks? This is what we do. My sister lives three hours away from my parents in the UK, yet I see them much more than she does.

Not moving back for them doesn't mean not making sacrifices. I was offered my dream job twelve days after my mum was re-diagnosed with the terminal breast cancer recurrence in spine and pelvis in January this year, and I turned it down so I could continue working for myself and therefore being able to spend lots of time with her in her final years. It's really hard because she could live for ten years, or she could live for two.

I'd like a full-time job again, but I'm not getting one because it's only ten days a year holiday, and since we live on different continents I'd barely see her in these final years of hers. I worry about my dad after she's gone, but figure he can come and spend six months of the year with us, if he wants, since the visa waiver allows two lots of 90 days a year, and I will visit him also. But my place is with my husband in his country. I knew full well that he was American and that he loved America when I married him.

So there are still ways you can see your MIl and make some sacrifices for her without making the ultimate sacrifice of moving to the other side of the world. I hope you find a solution that works for you. I'm not that happy about not getting that job, but it was my decision and I figure there will be other jobs and I've got the rest of my life to have those, after she's gone.

The thing is, you can't have it all in life. You can't put your marriage first and put your parents first. And it doesn't make sense to put your parents at the expense of your marriage, because your parents will go, and then you'll be on your own, while your ex-spouse has gone off and married someone who is strongly committed to their marriage first and foremost! I am sorry you are going through this, and I hope your husband wakes up and remembers that his primary commitment should be to his wife and child.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

You're not being unreasonable.

The fact that your DH's mother offered money might indicate she is aware that it might be more challenging to find employment over there and she wants to be sure you're able to cover your expenses. That said, once she gives money, it turns into a power position, so based on that alone, there is no way I'd agree to that. You have your life in Australia, jobs, a house, and friends. It's unfair of her to ask for you to give up everything and move to another country w/no guarantees that you'll settle into a life that you'd like to have.

If she has money, then she should hire an in-care service.

 

[momhappy]

^^Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I don't know of many American parents who "expect" their adult children to care for them as they age. In fact, I have seen quite the opposite - that more and more, adult children feel less of a sense of responsibility to care for aging parents (and likewise, parents no longer expect their adult children to care for them).
After reading OPs post, I got the impression that OPs spouse hasn't seen much of his parents over the past several years - maybe that's not a correct assumption on my part? If that's the case, then he has been compromising, so the question becomes how much more should he have to compromise his wants/needs?

 

[minousbijoux]

I agree with the poster who said that neither one of you is being unreasonable. I wish you and your husband could talk about it in an open way; I have a feeling if there was no resistance, your husband might feel free to voice feelings that are extremely hard to say, like the fact that he probably has been made to feel guilty about it by his Mom; that he doesn't relish the idea either; that there is a sense of familial obligation and he might feel "bad" if he doesn't help out. I don't know, it just seems natural to me that he would have these feelings, but knows that you really don't want to go back and doesn't share all his own reasons why he doesn't want to go.

Could you consider having another child and then moving back? Your concerns about the birth seem legitimate to me (assuming there is no nearby good birthing and care options in central Ireland). I would absolutely worry about that. But I'm wondering if there is some compromise that you can come to and maybe move back for a while in a few years?

 

[Smith1942]

In response to Momhappy's post: Well, to explain further, in general since getting married and my peer group has also gotten married and reproduced, and the peer group's parents have moved into their seventies, I seem to have witnessed an amazing amount of selfishness on the part of the older generation.

The pressure that is brought to bear on new brides by older women to have children the second the ink is dry on the marriage certificates has been breathtaking. This has been from mothers and mothers-in-law. Once my friends and I were married, it was as if we didn't exist as individuals, despite much parental encouragement in education and career as single women. One high-flying news anchor friend was told to just put her husband's career first and go on the mommy track. Parents and parents-in-law have tried to force us into traditional roles as hard as they can, with constant comments from the older generation. One friend was recently told by her mother, "Are you cooking Mark's dinner tonight? I'd like this marriage to LAST, you know!" That same MIL is determined to follow then wherever they live in the States...oh yes, and she decided to spite the bride by telling the groom what her dress looked like before the wedding.

After I was married, my own father would ring me up - transatlantically, remember - to check that I was cooking my husband's dinner. I wasn't, of course!

My husband and I are introverts who like to spend time alone sometimes, and we live in a small city centre flat, so he would go to our place in Florida sometimes and I'd stay here for a week or two. Because that is non-traditional, we have been the recipients of snarky comments about our chosen lifestyle, which we are very happy with.

Recently, my sister took her three kids down to my parents' house for ten days. My BIL's annual vacation was then due, so after the trip to the grandparents, my sister and her family returned home and had a staycation which my BIL could join in with, taking the kids on family days out to London, theme parks, etc. Despite the fact that my sis and kids had just stayed for ten days with them, all my mum could see was that her son-in-law was not spending his vacation with her. What??!! She pressured my sister quite a lot not to have her family staycation with all their days out as a family, but to go and sit in her house with her, despite having just done that for ten days! I mean, what man wants to spend his precious annual acation time at his inlaws' house instead of spending quality time taking his kids to London, exposing them to culture and all the museums etc?

My cousin was offered a dream job in Qatar. His father had died six months before, leaving his mother, my aunt, a widow. My parents were saying the cousin should have turned the job down. Well, he has a wife and child to provide for, and - get this - my aunt has a devoted daughter living a mere half hour away AND another son an hour away in London! My cousin is living his life, he went to Qatar, and good for him.

These are just some choice examples - I won't bore you with more, but suffice to say that I've seen a stupendous amount of entitlement and selfishness among the older generation in the last few years. Some of them seem to have no compunction whatsoever about bringing to bear as much pressure as they can upon their adult children, who are coping with their own lives. I'm thoroughly unimpressed. They need to go and stand on the naughty step!

The selfishness of some members of the older generation has got so bad these days that couples really need to put on a strongly united front to show them where their loyalties lie. Such a display of solidarity should not be needed. Sometimes my family would criticise my husband to me, and I had to make it clear that that was not OK. When they criticise him, they criticise me.

On the upside, I have whispered to myself over and over sometimes, "I will never, ever, ever treat my adult children like this. Never, ever."

Regarding the comment about the OP's husband's needs/wants, does he actually want to give up his life in Australia to go and care for his parents "until they die"? Or is he happy in Australia and just feeling the pressure? If they weren't around, would he still want to go back to Ireland? I got the impression he is perfectly happy with his Aussie life and it's just his parents who are messing with his head.

 

[Smith1942]

Minous - the trouble with compromising and moving back in a while for a few years is that the couple, again, ends up drawing the short straw. It is an unbelievable amount of hassle to keep moving countries. It weakens your networks, career and friendships and and confuses the children. You usually lose out by transferring between two different financial systems and currencies, too. All well and good if they are a travelling family who wants to live in different countries for the experience - i.e. the cousin above who is working in Qatar also did a four-year stint in India. But that was with a job with KPMG where you have career stability, relocation consultants, moving costs paid, etc. This is not the case with the OP's scenario. If they move across the world for a few years, they are still moving back and compromising an awful lot about their lives, assuming the husband is quite happy to stay in Australia were it not for his parents' pressure.

If it was the husband himself who wanted to leave Australia, with good reasons such as better schooling in Ireland (not saying it's better, just making up a fictional reason) that would be different. But it sounds as if the ONLY reason is his parents.

If the only reason to leave Australia is his parents, I think he should tell them that he has chosen his wife and family and Australia, like he did the day they got married. That is not to say there can't be visits of a few weeks. With three other children nearby, why can't she be happy with longish visits? That also creates strain on a couple because you have no marital privacy when you have houseguests, but it's better than changing your entire life when you don't want to.

 

[momhappy]

^Although I agree that perhaps there are some instances of an older generation with a stupendous amount of entitlement/selfishness, the same could be said for younger generations (there seems to be a growing number of young folks with selfish attitudes and a sense of entitlement). I agree that it would not be fair to expect an adult child to uproot their life to accommodate an aging parent, but I personally, have not heard/seen examples like the ones you've posted above.

 

[chrono]

Is it possible for his parents to relocate to Australia to be close to your DH?

 

[momhappy]

Minous - the trouble with compromising and moving back in a while for a few years is that the couple, again, ends up drawing the short straw. It is an unbelievable amount of hassle to keep moving countries. It weakens your networks, career and friendships and and confuses the children. You usually lose out by transferring between two different financial systems and currencies, too. All well and good if they are a travelling family who wants to live in different countries for the experience - i.e. the cousin above who is working in Qatar also did a four-year stint in India. But that was with a job with KPMG where you have career stability, relocation consultants, moving costs paid, etc. This is not the case with the OP's scenario. If they move across the world for a few years, they are still moving back and compromising an awful lot about their lives, assuming the husband is quite happy to stay in Australia were it not for his parents' pressure.

If it was the husband himself who wanted to leave Australia, with good reasons such as better schooling in Ireland (not saying it's better, just making up a fictional reason) that would be different. But it sounds as if the ONLY reason is his parents.

If the only reason to leave Australia is his parents, I think he should tell them that he has chosen his wife and family and Australia, like he did the day they got married. That is not to say there can't be visits of a few weeks. With three other children nearby, why can't she be happy with longish visits? That also creates strain on a couple because you have no marital privacy when you have houseguests, but it's better than changing your entire life when you don't want to.

I guess I have trouble with your line of reasoning (but certainly appreciate the dialogue ). So what if the main reason why he wants to move is because of his parents? How is that any different than OPs main reason of wanting to have another child in Australia?
Again, I feel that neither one of them is being unreasonable and to simply disregard feelings is not at all fair. Saying that his mother should be happy with visits from her son is quite unnerving. I can't imagine that one day my son may want to be near me and his spouse will be working behind the scenes to keep him away from me. Don't get me wrong, I fully expect that my son will grow, start a family of his own, and move away from me. However, that doesn't mean that I should be happy with barely seeing him because that's what his wife thinks that I should do..... There's got to be some other compromise here and I truly hope that OP and her spouse can work together and come to a conclusion that works for both of them. Maybe some professional help is in order in an effort to sort through feelings and facilitate (honest) dialogue.

 

[Smith1942]

Perhaps I wasn't quite clear. I meant, does the husband WANT to move to Ireland, or is he only responding to parental pressure? I got the impression from the OP's post that they are quite happy in Australia and the fly in the ointment is the parental pressure. In other words, does he like his life in OZ just fine?

Here's the key part - if there were zero pressure, would he still want to move back? If his mum had never mentioned moving back, if she told him that she had strong support networks, had lots of money for care, and had her eye on a nice local retirement home when the time came and he is not to worry about her in the least, would he still be wanting to go back to Ireland? I got the strong impression that the only reason this move is under discussion is all the pressure from the parents back home.

Also, I mentioned long visits lasting weeks at a time, like I do with my parents. That's hardly not seeing them. That adds up to months each year of seeing them.

I've just counted up. By the end of this year, I will have spent fourteen weeks under the same roof as my parents (three weeks last December, a week in February, three weeks in May, three weeks in August, a week for Thanksgiving, and three weeks at Christmas.)
So I am in no way at all advocating "barely" seeing the parents.

But, most people I know do not see their parents the way I do. I have always been close to them. Many of my friends left home at 18 and never really went back, only for the odd short visit. That describes my sister. I do indeed find that kind of visiting schedule very selfish on the part of the kids. I try to honour my parents. Before my mum was re-diagnosed, I called them a few times a week and now I call them every day. I call them, I see them for months each year. I don't think that adult kids should shut their parents out, not at all.

I had a flatmate in London who was from Australia. She went home only every couple of years. It's a really, really long way. And I do believe that when you have children, you have to accept that they will become adults and if they want to move to the other side of the world and only come home every few years, that is what they will do and you cannot prevent it. They have free will and they are entitled to move where they want and do what they want. That is why parenthood is referred to as a sacrifice!

 

[House Cat]

Minous - the trouble with compromising and moving back in a while for a few years is that the couple, again, ends up drawing the short straw. It is an unbelievable amount of hassle to keep moving countries. It weakens your networks, career and friendships and and confuses the children. You usually lose out by transferring between two different financial systems and currencies, too. All well and good if they are a travelling family who wants to live in different countries for the experience - i.e. the cousin above who is working in Qatar also did a four-year stint in India. But that was with a job with KPMG where you have career stability, relocation consultants, moving costs paid, etc. This is not the case with the OP's scenario. If they move across the world for a few years, they are still moving back and compromising an awful lot about their lives, assuming the husband is quite happy to stay in Australia were it not for his parents' pressure.

If it was the husband himself who wanted to leave Australia, with good reasons such as better schooling in Ireland (not saying it's better, just making up a fictional reason) that would be different. But it sounds as if the ONLY reason is his parents.

If the only reason to leave Australia is his parents, I think he should tell them that he has chosen his wife and family and Australia, like he did the day they got married. That is not to say there can't be visits of a few weeks. With three other children nearby, why can't she be happy with longish visits? That also creates strain on a couple because you have no marital privacy when you have houseguests, but it's better than changing your entire life when you don't want to.

I guess I have trouble with your line of reasoning (but certainly appreciate the dialogue ). So what if the main reason why he wants to move is because of his parents? How is that any different than OPs main reason of wanting to have another child in Australia?
Again, I feel that neither one of them is being unreasonable and to simply disregard feelings is not at all fair. Saying that his mother should be happy with visits from her son is quite unnerving. I can't imagine that one day my son may want to be near me and his spouse will be working behind the scenes to keep him away from me. Don't get me wrong, I fully expect that my son will grow, start a family of his own, and move away from me. However, that doesn't mean that I should be happy with barely seeing him because that's what his wife thinks that I should do..... There's got to be some other compromise here and I truly hope that OP and her spouse can work together and come to a conclusion that works for both of them. Maybe some professional help is in order in an effort to sort through feelings and facilitate (honest) dialogue.

Momhappy,

One choice is healthy, one really isn't.

Once a person gets married, it is unhealthy to start choosing the family of origin (parents, siblings) over the new family (wife, children). When a person gets married, they have committed to their new family and that family is to be chosen over all others, period.

It is up to the parents of the person to gently let go and to allow their child to have a healthy and happy life. The parents need to understand that their child has grown, has a family of their own, and has to chose their family over them! A parent should want that for their child and grandchildren and yes, even their new daughter/son in law.

I'm reading your responses and you've mentioned a couple of times about how distressed you would be if there was a daughter in law keeping you from your son, but it would be your job as a healthy parent to let go. It should be your joy to watch your son grow and be in love with his new family. You should take pleasure in knowing he is loving his life and in your healthy mind there should be no part of you that would want to manipulate and plead to uproot him from that life. Do you see?

If anything, you will want to participate in that life. You will find ways to become a part of that life in your new role, as a grandparent, not as your son's mother. This role has more joy than your previous role anyway, haven't you heard?

Understand that I am not saying you would manipulate or do such things, but I get the feeling this is happening in this situation with the OP and I know this happens time and again with many adult children.

There is something going on with this mother...the OP's mother in law...anyone who would deny the rest of her children an inheritance and give it all to one child isn't playing fair. This tells me she's a manipulator. I wouldn't move across the world for that woman for anything. But it also tells me that she probably has her hooks in deep in her son and he's hurting very deeply because of it.

 

[amc80]

I think you and your husband are being reasonable. I think you MIL is the one being unreasonable. How selfish is she to basically demand that her grown son uproots his life and family? As someone mentioned early, it may be cultural.

Does you DH want to move? I mean honestly, aside from his mother's guilt trip?

 

[Smith1942]

"Once a person gets married, it is unhealthy to start choosing the family of origin (parents, siblings) over the new family (wife, children). When a person gets married, they have committed to their new family and that family is to be chosen over all others, period."

This.

I could not agree with House Cat more strongly. And with the rest of her post, too.

People of the older generation who do put this pressure on never seem to consider the effect they are having on the life of an entire family. Like House Cat said, the husband is probably hurting deeply from being pulled in two directions, when it should be understood that his marriage comes first. (We are assuming here that he is only thinking of going back to Ireland because of parental pressure.) In turn, the marriage suffers because, after marrying this man and giving birth to his children, the wife feels as if his Mommy Dearest comes in equal to or above her, and she does not have his undivided loyalty as his wife. She does not feel cherished. Those feelings are not good for the marriage. In turn, with the marriage suffering, the grandchildren's entire security and whole little world is threatened. Thanks, Grandma!

I am not saying this applies necessarily to the OP, but this is the way these things tend to play out when a spouse gets priorities between his family of origin and his new family mixed up.

Would the OP's MIL be happy if the couple divorced and the husband returned to Ireland to look after his parents "until they die"? Her grandchild would grow up never seeing his dad, but would that be OK by her as long as she gets looked after?

I mean, really. I think she is being incredibly selfish. It's sad for her, of course, that her son moved so far away. Few parents would choose that. It must seem unfair, and tough. But he is an adult now and I think his mother should accept that and accept his choice to marry a woman from the other side of the world. She cannot control him. And I have seen a lot of controlling behaviour from some members of the older generation - not all of them, of course. But I'm not a fan of those who do try to control their adult children's lives. When they had children, did they not realise that one day that child would be a child no longer and would be able to do whatever they wanted in life? It seems that some older parents have a real problem with their adult children's autonomy. To be honest, I don't think my own mother ever really liked it that my sister and I got married and formed our own lives.

ETA: There was a woman who lived opposite us in the UK - still does - called Rosemary. She never left home. She decided she would live at home her whole life and care for her parents till they were dead. It actually worked for her because she had a boyfriend in the same town who had decided to do exactly the same thing! So they were living with their respective parents, and I would see his car come, and they would go out together for the evening. They had an agreement that when their parents died, they would marry. At this stage the couple must have been in their mid-forties, because Rosemary is about in her mid-sixties now.

Anyway, after a while, the boyfriend's parents died. He wanted to marry her immediately, but her mother was still alive and sick. So they argued about it, and I never saw his car there again. Her mother died about 12 years ago, and now Rosemary lives there alone. She aged prematurely and gave up work years ago, and is pretty much a hermit. It's really sad. I cannot believe her parents LET her devote her life to them.

In contrast, my best friend Jo showed no sign of leaving home by age 30, eight years ago, so her mother kicked her out for her own good. Jo is very passive and never would have got her skates on. Her mother went and got real estate brochures and practically forced Jo into buying her flat and made her be independent. Jo absolutely loves living on her own and having her privacy, but she never would have done it if her mother hadn't been cruel to be kind. After that, Jo's parents moved away!!! Usually it's the kids who move away. They only moved about 20 miles away, but previously they were down the street from her, and there was some talk of her parents moving to a town a few hundred miles away, but that didn't work out. But Jo's mum was forcing her to be independent so that Jo can cope when her parents are no longer around. That's the unselfish way, in contrast to Rosemary's parents. I never met Rosemary's father, but her mother was actually a lovely lady. Funny that she could be so selfish where Rosemary's future was concerned.

Anyway, the point of this is that it's good parenting to let go of your adult children so they can form their own lives without guilts and burdens and strains on their marriages.

 

[aviastar]

I really do not want to go as we would really struggle to get work there, own a house and have a mortgage here, have a wonderful quality of life here in Sydney and probably my biggest reason (apart from being so close to his mother) is that I really want to have another child but had severe complications with my son who was 2 months premature and I have been given a 50% chance of it happening again, so I couldn't feel comfortable about having another pregnancy in small town Ireland compared to the amazing facilities I have here and being an only child would never ever wish to have one myself.

So am I being unreasonable? Any ideas on how to best handle this situation?

Nope, not unreasonable to have these concerns (AT ALL!). If your husband could address your list of concerns, realistically- not in a vague way, would you be open to considering it?

Your concerns are legit and not easily overcome; perhaps if your husband could have your 'permission' to go ahead and see if there are solutions to them he would feel 1)more proactive, 2) supported in his worry about his parent, and 3) (hopefully) more empowered to say no to his parent because he has put in the effort to really check it out and has concrete examples of why it won't be possible for your family. I agree with amc, though, that MIL is being very unreasonable and none of these concerns will sway her; I'm more thinking about how to make your DH feel comfortable with putting his family's needs first without feeling like a bad son.

I'm sorry you are dealing with this; families are wonderful and awful and messy and glorious all at the same time and it's just hard to manage it all well all the time.

 

[Smith1942]

I really do not want to go as we would really struggle to get work there, own a house and have a mortgage here, have a wonderful quality of life here in Sydney and probably my biggest reason (apart from being so close to his mother) is that I really want to have another child but had severe complications with my son who was 2 months premature and I have been given a 50% chance of it happening again, so I couldn't feel comfortable about having another pregnancy in small town Ireland compared to the amazing facilities I have here and being an only child would never ever wish to have one myself.

So am I being unreasonable? Any ideas on how to best handle this situation?

Nope, not unreasonable to have these concerns (AT ALL!). If your husband could address your list of concerns, realistically- not in a vague way, would you be open to considering it?

Your concerns are legit and not easily overcome; perhaps if your husband could have your 'permission' to go ahead and see if there are solutions to them he would feel 1)more proactive, 2) supported in his worry about his parent, and 3) (hopefully) more empowered to say no to his parent because he has put in the effort to really check it out and has concrete examples of why it won't be possible for your family. I agree with amc, though, that MIL is being very unreasonable and none of these concerns will sway her; I'm more thinking about how to make your DH feel comfortable with putting his family's needs first without feeling like a bad son.

I'm sorry you are dealing with this; families are wonderful and awful and messy and glorious all at the same time and it's just hard to manage it all well all the time.

I agree, but it shouldn't be hard to manage. I think that selfishness on the part of family members can make life very difficult for other family members, and it really isn't fair. This also applies to younger members being selfish to older ones too, of course.

Basically, families put each other under pressure in all manner of ways, sometimes resulting in serious harm to a family member's circumstances. The sheer amount of stress that families can put each other through is totally wrong, in my opinion. If there was less selfishness around and more respect for family members as autonomous individuals, there would be more happy families.

 

[momhappy]

Minous - the trouble with compromising and moving back in a while for a few years is that the couple, again, ends up drawing the short straw. It is an unbelievable amount of hassle to keep moving countries. It weakens your networks, career and friendships and and confuses the children. You usually lose out by transferring between two different financial systems and currencies, too. All well and good if they are a travelling family who wants to live in different countries for the experience - i.e. the cousin above who is working in Qatar also did a four-year stint in India. But that was with a job with KPMG where you have career stability, relocation consultants, moving costs paid, etc. This is not the case with the OP's scenario. If they move across the world for a few years, they are still moving back and compromising an awful lot about their lives, assuming the husband is quite happy to stay in Australia were it not for his parents' pressure.

If it was the husband himself who wanted to leave Australia, with good reasons such as better schooling in Ireland (not saying it's better, just making up a fictional reason) that would be different. But it sounds as if the ONLY reason is his parents.

If the only reason to leave Australia is his parents, I think he should tell them that he has chosen his wife and family and Australia, like he did the day they got married. That is not to say there can't be visits of a few weeks. With three other children nearby, why can't she be happy with longish visits? That also creates strain on a couple because you have no marital privacy when you have houseguests, but it's better than changing your entire life when you don't want to.

I guess I have trouble with your line of reasoning (but certainly appreciate the dialogue ). So what if the main reason why he wants to move is because of his parents? How is that any different than OPs main reason of wanting to have another child in Australia?
Again, I feel that neither one of them is being unreasonable and to simply disregard feelings is not at all fair. Saying that his mother should be happy with visits from her son is quite unnerving. I can't imagine that one day my son may want to be near me and his spouse will be working behind the scenes to keep him away from me. Don't get me wrong, I fully expect that my son will grow, start a family of his own, and move away from me. However, that doesn't mean that I should be happy with barely seeing him because that's what his wife thinks that I should do..... There's got to be some other compromise here and I truly hope that OP and her spouse can work together and come to a conclusion that works for both of them. Maybe some professional help is in order in an effort to sort through feelings and facilitate (honest) dialogue.

Momhappy,

One choice is healthy, one really isn't.

Once a person gets married, it is unhealthy to start choosing the family of origin (parents, siblings) over the new family (wife, children). When a person gets married, they have committed to their new family and that family is to be chosen over all others, period.

It is up to the parents of the person to gently let go and to allow their child to have a healthy and happy life. The parents need to understand that their child has grown, has a family of their own, and has to chose their family over them! A parent should want that for their child and grandchildren and yes, even their new daughter/son in law.

I'm reading your responses and you've mentioned a couple of times about how distressed you would be if there was a daughter in law keeping you from your son, but it would be your job as a healthy parent to let go. It should be your joy to watch your son grow and be in love with his new family. You should take pleasure in knowing he is loving his life and in your healthy mind there should be no part of you that would want to manipulate and plead to uproot him from that life. Do you see?

If anything, you will want to participate in that life. You will find ways to become a part of that life in your new role, as a grandparent, not as your son's mother. This role has more joy than your previous role anyway, haven't you heard?

Understand that I am not saying you would manipulate or do such things, but I get the feeling this is happening in this situation with the OP and I know this happens time and again with many adult children.

There is something going on with this mother...the OP's mother in law...anyone who would deny the rest of her children an inheritance and give it all to one child isn't playing fair. This tells me she's a manipulator. I wouldn't move across the world for that woman for anything. But it also tells me that she probably has her hooks in deep in her son and he's hurting very deeply because of it.

I don't see the choice as unhealthy. It seems to me like the OP's husband has been prioritizing his family - he has lived in Australia for 10 years (9 of those with his wife and later, his child). Based on OPs original post, I also assumed that he has not seen his family on a regular basis. OP said that they had not made a visit there since the wedding, which was 2.5 years ago. Unlike Smith, who's made regular and lengthy visits to see her mom as a compromise, I'm not seeing the compromise here?
When I made references to my own son, of course I realize that it's my job to raise him and set him free at some point. However, we are very close and I would guess that we would make efforts to see each other fairly regularly. If he went 2.5 years without making an effort to see me, then I'd be incredibly saddened.
Much like everything in life, things change and priorities can change. I agree that one needs to prioritize their own family (over their family of origin), but sometimes, circumstances can change that can affect our priorities. Recently, my husband lost his father to a 6-month battle with cancer. We decided that my husband's need/desire to care for his father was temporarily greater than his need to be with his own family (me and the kids). Even though it was really tough, he flew back and forth several times. After he passed, my husband has said several times that he is very grateful for the time that he got to spend with him. I can't imagine how horrible I would feel if I had prevented him from going.
I do think that some of this particular issue depends on whether or not OPs husband actually wants to move - or if he is being guilted by his mother and truly doesn't want to go. If he truly wants to move and spend time with his aging parents, then his feelings need to be taken into consideration and the couple needs to come to some sort of compromise (like Smith has done). If he doesn't have a desire to move, then decisions still need to be made about how to handle the situation with his mother so that OPs husband does not continue to be manipulated and put in the middle of his wife/family and his mother.

 

[rosetta]

I agree with Smith and Housecat. Woe to the mother who doesn't allow their children to prioritise their marriage and families over themselves. How selfish. I don't have kids but even I know that you need to let your kids get on with their adult lives, without undue interference. I feel lucky that my parents have never put pressure on me to stay with them: I live on a different continent actually, and I know they would love for me to be closer. But not once have they ever asked me to come back. They too left their own parents to make a life for their children in another country, and my grandparents were equally understanding. If I ever have children, I hope I can follow their example and never be burden to my children by guilting them at every opportunity.

 

[momhappy]

For what it's worth, I agree with Smith & Housecat too about parents unfairly burdening their adult children. As much as I love my kids, I understand that my role will change at some point and that they will move on with their own lives. We don't know that's the case here, though. OP hasn't been back yet to respond, so we don't know much of the circumstances. Maybe OPs DH has always known that he has wanted to move back to Ireland? Maybe he knows that he's the only one in his family to adequately care for them? There really could be any number of things going on here and I feel bad for OP because she is the one left in the dark when her DH has his private discussions with his mom.

 

[Smith1942]

Momhappy - it sounds as if you and your husband reached a good compromise with his father's illness. When your parent is diagnosed as terminal, time with them becomes so precious. Yes, I have reached my compromise too, and mostly it works. I get tired with all the jetlag and I get stress outbreaks of cold sores etc and I find it difficult to work at my career with so much disruption (and I turned down my dream job o spend time with my mum) so it hasn't been without sacrifice. It's important to me not to have regrets, though. But still, that's nothing compared to the upheaval of making a drastic transcontinental move! (Again!)

I think I am assuming that the OP's husband doesn't want to move back to Ireland because he said he "needs" to go to look after his parents, according to the OP's post. He didn't say he "wants" to go.

If he doesn't want to move back to Ireland, and the only reason to go is because of pressure, perhaps the OP will just have to have her inlaws to stay for a few weeks or a couple of months, and perhaps sacrifice family vacation time to spend much of it in Ireland. If she doesn't work, perhaps she could take her son over for a month.

London is full of Australians and it's not actually unusual for them not to go home for a couple of years. It's so far away, so expensive, and of course vacation time is usually only 20 days a year, which you can't take all at once, usually. I mean, the OP's DH did decide to marry a girl from the other side of the world, you know? He must have seen that it's difficult to please everyone with this kind of distance between the parties.

My parents have a friend whose son met a Tasmanian girl in London. She made it clear that if they were going to have kids, she would want to move back. They did have kids and he complied with her request. He's all settled in Tasmania now with his wife and kids and I don't think he comes home ever, despite the fact his father is a widower now. The father does have a daughter with a family who live close by, however. Jo, the friend I talked about above, her cousin lives in Australia and only comes back about once every five years. I do think these adult children are a little selfish, not coming home for years on end. I couldn't do that.

 

[Smith1942]

For what it's worth, I agree with Smith & Housecat too about parents unfairly burdening their adult children. As much as I love my kids, I understand that my role will change at some point and that they will move on with their own lives. We don't know that's the case here, though. OP hasn't been back yet to respond, so we don't know much of the circumstances. Maybe OPs DH has always known that he has wanted to move back to Ireland? Maybe he knows that he's the only one in his family to adequately care for them? There really could be any number of things going on here and I feel bad for OP because she is the one left in the dark when her DH has his private discussions with his mom.

Oh yeah - I noticed about the private discussions too! I wouldn't like that if it was a recurring event. Like I said, I was just assuming the DH didn't really want to move back. Anyway, since the OP is in Australia I think she's asleep during much of our day, so I'm sure she'll be back to answer the question when she wakes up! She'll have a lot of responses to read through!

 

[momhappy]

Momhappy - it sounds as if you and your husband reached a good compromise with his father's illness. When your parent is diagnosed as terminal, time with them becomes so precious. Yes, I have reached my compromise too, and mostly it works. I get tired with all the jetlag and I get stress outbreaks of cold sores etc and I find it difficult to work at my career with so much disruption (and I turned down my dream job o spend time with my mum) so it hasn't been without sacrifice. It's important to me not to have regrets, though. But still, that's nothing compared to the upheaval of making a drastic transcontinental move! (Again!)

I think I am assuming that the OP's husband doesn't want to move back to Ireland because he said he "needs" to go to look after his parents, according to the OP's post. He didn't say he "wants" to go.

If he doesn't want to move back to Ireland, and the only reason to go is because of pressure, perhaps the OP will just have to have her inlaws to stay for a few weeks or a couple of months, and perhaps sacrifice family vacation time to spend much of it in Ireland. If she doesn't work, perhaps she could take her son over for a month.

London is full of Australians and it's not actually unusual for them not to go home for a couple of years. It's so far away, so expensive, and of course vacation time is usually only 20 days a year, which you can't take all at once, usually. I mean, the OP's DH did decide to marry a girl from the other side of the world, you know? He must have seen that it's difficult to please everyone with this kind of distance between the parties.

My parents have a friend whose son met a Tasmanian girl in London. She made it clear that if they were going to have kids, she would want to move back. They did have kids and he complied with her request. He's all settled in Tasmania now with his wife and kids and I don't think he comes home ever, despite the fact his father is a widower now. The father does have a daughter with a family who live close by, however. Jo, the friend I talked about above, her cousin lives in Australia and only comes back about once every five years. I do think these adult children are a little selfish, not coming home for years on end. I couldn't do that.

Oh, Smith, it sounds like it's been quite challenging for you, but it also sounds like you've made the right choice for you and your family. These types of decisions often come down to regret - making the best choice that will leave you with the least amount of regret.
Yes, OPs DH did marry her knowing the distance and the potential problems it might create, but by the same token, OP did marry him knowing the exact same thing. I guess the two of them really need to decide what's in the best interest of their whole family (husband, wife, child, and potential baby).
And Smith, I'm sorry for your situation with your mom. Cancer sure sucks, but I'm glad to hear that you're getting some quality time with her while you still can.