You are worth it!

[decodelighted]

Date: 2/21/2008 3:50:37 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 2/21/2008 3:47:24 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 2/21/2008 3:42:56 PM
Author: FrekeChild
Don''t come into my house and start talking smack about how I live my life. It''s NOT WELCOME.

Umm ... this isn''t your house.

No! It''s MY house! Take off all your shoes, you rebel rousing Americans! You''re in K-Town now!!!!!!!! (that''s short for Korea-Town).

OMG ... I have the soundtrack to WESTSIDE STORY ringing in my ears now ... also, I''m crowed over and snapping uncontrollably while wearing capri pants & a shiny jacket. Please don''t cut me!

 

[Stephanie]

Date: 2/21/2008 3:44:14 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 2/21/2008 3:37:58 PM
Author: decodelighted


Oh - another WILD CRAZY IDEA -- you don''t realize how MUCH of your sexuality & body & attractiveness actually is a commodity until YOU LOSE IT. There are big, huge, ugly generalities about this that we would PREFER didn''t exist, and can politically-correct-ize with Naive Glasses but ... we''re not there yet. Ask Hilary how enlightened the world is while they''re critisizing her haircut & lipstick & pantsuits while Kennedyizing Obama.
Not. There. Yet. But keep on believing!

I sold myself to TGuy for 2 euro. I was in need of an espresso.

Now that I think about it, I think I coulda gotten two fifty.

So what was the currency exchange for that? 5USD?

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/21/2008 3:54:28 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 2/21/2008 3:50:37 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 2/21/2008 3:47:24 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 2/21/2008 3:42:56 PM
Author: FrekeChild
Don''t come into my house and start talking smack about how I live my life. It''s NOT WELCOME.

Umm ... this isn''t your house.

No! It''s MY house! Take off all your shoes, you rebel rousing Americans! You''re in K-Town now!!!!!!!! (that''s short for Korea-Town).

OMG ... I have the soundtrack to WESTSIDE STORY ringing in my ears now ... also, I''m crowed over and snapping uncontrollably while wearing capri pants & a shiny jacket. Please don''t cut me!

Ha, LOVE that movie. I can hear it in my head too...........................

I''m Korean. I won''t cut you. I''ll poke you in the eye with a chopstick...

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/21/2008 3:55:38 PM
Author: Stephanie

Date: 2/21/2008 3:44:14 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 2/21/2008 3:37:58 PM
Author: decodelighted


Oh - another WILD CRAZY IDEA -- you don''t realize how MUCH of your sexuality & body & attractiveness actually is a commodity until YOU LOSE IT. There are big, huge, ugly generalities about this that we would PREFER didn''t exist, and can politically-correct-ize with Naive Glasses but ... we''re not there yet. Ask Hilary how enlightened the world is while they''re critisizing her haircut & lipstick & pantsuits while Kennedyizing Obama.
Not. There. Yet. But keep on believing!

I sold myself to TGuy for 2 euro. I was in need of an espresso.

Now that I think about it, I think I coulda gotten two fifty.

So what was the currency exchange for that? 5USD?

Nope...back in 2003 we were pretty much 1 for 1. I was easy AND stupid.

 

[Stephanie]

Date: 2/21/2008 3:59:59 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Ha, LOVE that movie. I can hear it in my head too...........................

I''m Korean. I won''t cut you. I''ll poke you in the eye with a chopstick...

Tgal, you have to stop.. I can''t keep explaining the random outbursts of hysterical laughter!

 

[ktdid]

T-Gal! You are killing me! I needed that laugh

and I go around the house all the time Moo-ing to my boyfriend! It's our joke that I'm free milk

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 2/21/2008 3:59:59 PM
Author: TravelingGal
I''m Korean. I won''t cut you. I''ll poke you in the eye with a chopstick..

HA!!! That''ll have to be some kinda specialized telescoping chopstick to get past both of our bellies! And, hey, I''m not even preggers.

 

[Mediterranean]

hen you''re a Jet,
You''re a Jet all the way
From your first cigarette
To your last dyin'' day.

When you''re a Jet,
If the spit hits the fan,
You got brothers around,
You''re a family man!

You''re never alone,
You''re never disconnected!
You''re home with your own:
When company''s expected,
You''re well protected!

Then you are set
With a capital J,
Which you''ll never forget
Till they cart you away.
When you''re a Jet,
You stay a Jet!






OOh, ooh....I wanna be Bernardo!!!!!!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/21/2008 4:09:10 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 2/21/2008 3:59:59 PM
Author: TravelingGal
I''m Korean. I won''t cut you. I''ll poke you in the eye with a chopstick..

HA!!! That''ll have to be some kinda specialized telescoping chopstick to get past both of our bellies! And, hey, I''m not even preggers.

I am the ring leader. I only need to send my minions after you.

*shrill whistle*

"Kung Pao! Bok Choy! Get that smart-mouthed, Idol-lovin'', American tart!"

 

[MissErin]

This is hilarious!! I can''t believe it''s still going on. haha I wonder if the OP will ever return to see the uproar she caused. haha You all have good points and some of your comments are total "LOL" material. Thanks for the laughs ladies.

 

[marvel]

I''m still reading through the entire thread, but the only thing that comes to mind is Dr. Laura. Anybody who knows her, knows what I''m talking about. I think this is where the OP got her logic from.

 

[sandia_rose]

Now here's a thought to all of us who are "giving away the milk for free." We can have a theme wedding when the time comes (see pic posted below)! Come to think of it, I should have done that in response to all of those wonderful, helpful people whose comments brainwashed me into a marriage I knew in my heart was a bad idea. I'm one of those people who, when left to her own devices, will more often than not make good decisions that work for her. It sometimes takes me a long time to get with the program, but I eventually do get there. I don't need guilt or railroading to "help" me find my way.

I've really enjoyed this thread today, I've gotta say. I'm having my own personal drama/dilemma here (as y'all know) and this has enabled me to keep my mind on my work while making it look like I am actually doing work when I have "moments."

And have you considered that the original post may have been posted as a troll-pie? Not to imply that the OP is a troll -- but it could have been posted to just fire all of us up. I mean, you can TELL that this is a message board for independent, thinking (sometimes non-traditional) women (and the occasional man). I don't agree with everything posted here, but it's nice to know that you can get advice / ideas / support from people who at least think like you do part of the time. One of my brothers, who in real-life is a nice guy, routinely gets on Yahoo Groups and USENET and posts stuff just to fire people up. It's like entertainment for him. Not that it's right....but you know?

Bridget in Connecticut.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 2/21/2008 4:14:15 PM
Author: TravelingGal
*shrill whistle*
''Kung Pao! Bok Choy! Get that smart-mouthed, Idol-lovin'', American tart!''

The American tart''s eyes widen & drift upwards as drool droplets form in the corners of her mouth. The good eats of Korea Town beckon .... and your brethren only find a cloud of dust that my comicly-sprialing-fleet-feet have kicked up. Next time, TG. Next TIME!

 

[diamondfan]

Date: 2/21/2008 3:44:14 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 2/21/2008 3:37:58 PM

Author: decodelighted



Oh - another WILD CRAZY IDEA -- you don''t realize how MUCH of your sexuality & body & attractiveness actually is a commodity until YOU LOSE IT. There are big, huge, ugly generalities about this that we would PREFER didn''t exist, and can politically-correct-ize with Naive Glasses but ... we''re not there yet. Ask Hilary how enlightened the world is while they''re critisizing her haircut & lipstick & pantsuits while Kennedyizing Obama.

Not. There. Yet. But keep on believing!

I sold myself to TGuy for 2 euro. I was in need of an espresso.


Now that I think about it, I think I coulda gotten two fifty.

But TG, was it at least a double?!

Jk...But, really, I can see her overall point about respecting yourself. HOWEVER, it does imply using your body as a tool for bargaining AND that sex is the only reason a guy might marry you (meaning if you withhold it it will propel him to propose). Women are sexual beings too, and you should not have to be manipulative to get what you want (though I have CERTAINLY allowed horrible mother in law to come visit and happened to find a nice little bauble at the same time, one hand washing the other so to speak...I am NOT above that). Anyway, I hope she just was trying to be wise, but it is a bit old school for me. A part of marriage is sex, and being compatible is wonderful, so it is nice to know you two light each other''s fires, but using it so blatantly in either direction is not a great plan.

 

[HollyS]

Date: 2/21/2008 1:32:40 PM
Author: decodelighted
It''s like Grandma stumbled into a NOW rally

... c''mon gals ... who would be so furious in person at their well-meaning but a bit behind-the-times Grammy. This advice is AS OLD AS TIME, not some new offensive high-horse BS. Geez ... people are entitled to their own opinions. Balanced, mature individuals can cherry-pick wisdom and be confident about their own values without letting their heads spin around and vomiting fire all over the place.

INTENTIONS, ladies. It''s the INTENTION that matters. And I think the OP genuinely thought she could save some heartbreak & time by schooling us on the method that worked for HER.

As usual, Deco is the very voice of reason. Girl, sometimes you''re just so . . . Zen. Must be all those years of therapy you say you''ve had.

Mediterranean: damn funny. Snort and chuckle funny. ''Everyone in the office looking at me'' funny.

 

[marvel]

Date: 2/21/2008 4:14:15 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 2/21/2008 4:09:10 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 2/21/2008 3:59:59 PM
Author: TravelingGal
I''m Korean. I won''t cut you. I''ll poke you in the eye with a chopstick..

HA!!! That''ll have to be some kinda specialized telescoping chopstick to get past both of our bellies! And, hey, I''m not even preggers.

I am the ring leader. I only need to send my minions after you.

*shrill whistle*

''Kung Pao! Bok Choy! Get that smart-mouthed, Idol-lovin'', American tart!''

Yummy...a tart sounds good right about now

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/21/2008 4:23:55 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 2/21/2008 4:14:15 PM
Author: TravelingGal
*shrill whistle*
''Kung Pao! Bok Choy! Get that smart-mouthed, Idol-lovin'', American tart!''

The American tart''s eyes widen & drift upwards as drool droplets form in the corners of her mouth. The good eats of Korea Town beckon .... and your brethren only find a cloud of dust that my comicly-sprialing-fleet-feet have kicked up. Next time, TG. Next TIME!

*rails fist. gnashes teeth. sends minions back to milking cows*

 

[sandia_rose]

Date: 2/21/2008 4:20:13 PM
Author: marvel
I''m still reading through the entire thread, but the only thing that comes to mind is Dr. Laura. Anybody who knows her, knows what I''m talking about. I think this is where the OP got her logic from.

Not to trash the OP, but I HATE Dr. Laura, and I rarely say that about anyone. She''s mean-spirited and comes across holier-than-thou. I don''t respect that in a person. There are ways to give an opinon and thoughts and help without being hurtful or making someone feel worse than they already do. People call into her program seriously looking for help, and she shoots them down before she gives them what she thinks they need to hear. Not nice. You DO NOT kick anyone while they are down. I don''t care how much they "need" kicking.

And by the way, Dr. Laura is no angel herself. I don''t know if you remember, but she was in the papers a few years back because topless photos of her came out. She brushed it off by saying that she was younger and stupid when those were taken. OK...I buy that. I did a lot of dumb sh*t when I was in my late teens and 20s. But I don''t go around trashing other young girls who did the same that I did and pretend that I was always a saint.

The best advice person that I have ever read is the woman who gives the Sex and Relationship advice in Cosmo. I forget her name...it''s Dr. Barbara something-or-another. She''s realistic and doesn''t sugar-coat anything, but she''s not hurtful about what she says. She comes across as the cool aunt you talk with when you don''t feel like you can talk to your mom. I occasionally like Dr. Phil but am lukewarm to him these days because he''s too publicized. But I read Oprah''s magazine occasionally and like the "scripts" he comes up with when you have to resolve an interpersonal problem. He''s big into self-respect without trashing people, also.

Bridget in Connecticut.

 

[louisvgirl]

Well since it''s been established that I am a COW and I MMMMMMMMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!(Very well, as I''ve been told)

and since I therefore,

supply, cheese, yogurt, ice cream, etc.,....................do I get an upgrade???

(I would think so right??)(3CTS??)

After all......."my milkshake brings MY BOY TO THE YARD"

 

[Mediterranean]

Date: 2/21/2008 4:31:38 PM
Author: louisvgirl
Well since it''s been established that I am a COW and I MMMMMMMMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!(Very well, as I''ve been told)

and since I therefore,



supply, cheese, yogurt, ice cream, etc.,....................do I get an upgrade???

(I would think so right??)(3CTS??)


After all.......''my milkshake brings MY BOY TO THE YARD''

ICE CREAM?!?!?!?! Oh, LouisV, the capacity to churn out the ice cream is worth at LEAST 4.5 ct.

 

[marvel]

Date: 2/21/2008 4:29:47 PM
Author: sandia_rose

Date: 2/21/2008 4:20:13 PM
Author: marvel
I'm still reading through the entire thread, but the only thing that comes to mind is Dr. Laura. Anybody who knows her, knows what I'm talking about. I think this is where the OP got her logic from.

Not to trash the OP, but I HATE Dr. Laura, and I rarely say that about anyone. She's mean-spirited and comes across holier-than-thou. I don't respect that in a person. There are ways to give an opinon and thoughts and help without being hurtful or making someone feel worse than they already do. People call into her program seriously looking for help, and she shoots them down before she gives them what she thinks they need to hear. Not nice. You DO NOT kick anyone while they are down. I don't care how much they 'need' kicking.

And by the way, Dr. Laura is no angel herself. I don't know if you remember, but she was in the papers a few years back because topless photos of her came out. She brushed it off by saying that she was younger and stupid when those were taken. OK...I buy that. I did a lot of dumb sh*t when I was in my late teens and 20s. But I don't go around trashing other young girls who did the same that I did and pretend that I was always a saint.

The best advice person that I have ever read is the woman who gives the Sex and Relationship advice in Cosmo. I forget her name...it's Dr. Barbara something-or-another. She's realistic and doesn't sugar-coat anything, but she's not hurtful about what she says. She comes across as the cool aunt you talk with when you don't feel like you can talk to your mom. I occasionally like Dr. Phil but am lukewarm to him these days because he's too publicized. But I read Oprah's magazine occasionally and like the 'scripts' he comes up with when you have to resolve an interpersonal problem. He's big into self-respect without trashing people, also.

Bridget in Connecticut.

Hi Sandia...You're totally right on all the Dr. Laura stuff...she is mean-spirited, etc. She's not even a medical doctor, or a psychologist. Her PhD is in physiology

 

[Delster]

Date: 2/21/2008 3:37:58 PM
Author: decodelighted
Amazed by the spread of opinions ... from amused to outraged to disgusted etc. IMHO the reactions say more about us as individuals than they do about the OP.

Delster, glad you explained your interpretation of her intent. I didn''t see that at all, where now I understand where you''re coming from: the *manipulative* nature of the proposed endeavor being offensive to your sensibilities. Eh, still seems like heard-it-a-million-times-old-school-logic. Not everyone has had women''s lib ephiphanies and its not surprising to me. My own mom is all ''I wish guys still opened doors'' and ''I wish abortion was illegal so we didn''t have a choice''

and ''the old days were better because women didn''t have to work'' - blah blah blah. She wasn''t able to influence her own children with her (IMHO) nonsense so I can''t imagine this rhetoric sinking in anywhere these days. But, again, I''m not shocked to hear it.

Oh - another WILD CRAZY IDEA -- you don''t realize how MUCH of your sexuality & body & attractiveness actually is a commodity until YOU LOSE IT. There are big, huge, ugly generalities about this that we would PREFER didn''t exist, and can politically-correct-ize with Naive Glasses but ... we''re not there yet. Ask Hilary how enlightened the world is while they''re critisizing her haircut & lipstick & pantsuits while Kennedyizing Obama.
Not. There. Yet. But keep on believing!

Deco:

To each and every word.



TGal - stop, I''m going to wet myself!

 

[sandia_rose]

Date: 2/21/2008 3:37:58 PM
Author: decodelighted





Oh - another WILD CRAZY IDEA -- you don't realize how MUCH of your sexuality & attractiveness actually is a commodity until YOU LOSE IT. There are big, huge, ugly generalities about this that we would PREFER didn't exist, and can politically-correct-ize with Naive Glasses but ... we're not there yet.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

This is true, on one level...although I hate to say it. I did not realize how pretty I was in my teens and twenties - I was too busy envying all of the tanned blondes out there and starving myself to get into a size 2. Had I realized that my curvy redheaded self was a "commodity" on its own merit, I would have treated myself a whole lot better and not put up with the crap I did from men, just to have a boyfriend. I actually had a boyfriend in my mid-20s who offered to buy me breast implants for my birthday. I actually considered it -- thinking all this time that I was so lucky to have a boyfriend who would do that for me AND who was attractive AND rich (he was a lawyer with a $3Mil practice) and not even considering that he was an @ss4ole.

Very sad in retrospect. So while I am waffling with my current BF, trying to figure out what to do, I used to be much worse. MUCH.

I am almost 40 now and realize when I go out with my girlfriends that I cannot compete with the girls in their 20s as far as perky looks. I don't look 39, but I also cannot pass for younger than 30 anymore. That's quite OK. One thing that I do have (and KNOW that I have) is a brain. If things do not work out with my current BF, then I know that I still have a brain and men out there can appreciate a brain. The ones that can't or who are threatened by it, I don't want to know, anyway.

My mom used to say, "Beauty lasts for a short time, but stupid is forever." And if I had a choice, I would rather be with a smart man who has things to say/contribute than an attractive boy-toy. A man with a brain would keep me amused and interested and entertained well into my 90s. And I prefer to think that there are men out there who value a woman for her brain and constitution over her looks. Even though I am currently having problems with my BF, he has paid me a very high complement in this regard more than once. He repeatedly tells me - and tells others - that he is astonished by my intellegence and that I am the smartest woman he has ever known. These days, that means more to me than if a man told me I had a nice @ss. Because with enough money / surgical time / pain, beauty - especially manufactured Pamela Anderson type beauty - can be bought. Just look at Cindy Jackson (http://www.cindyjackson.com/my_cosmetic_surgery2.php). She may look better than I do, but I don't see her as more of a commodity than I am. Eventually, she's going to look like Joan Rivers. Time stops for no one -- and I prefer to think of myself as more than just a pretty object.

Bridget in Connecticut.

 

[kelpie]

This thread is too funny. Though I would not be too incensed at the OP, I think it's a common mentality in old school people. She truly thought she was helping, just like those people who go door to door with religious pamphlets care so much about saving other people, when the rest of us find it annoying. Withholding affection so you can get prematurely hitched and live in his parents basement with your youngins reminds me of this:

"Once upon a time, a beautiful, independent, self-assured princess happened upon a frog by a pond. The frog hopped into the princess' lap and said: I was once a handsome prince, until an evil witch cast a spell upon me. One kiss from you, however, and I will turn back into a prince and then we can marry and live with my mother in her castle, where you can prepare my meals, clean my clothes, bear my children, and forever feel grateful and happy doing so. ' That night, the princess dined on frog legs"

Would anyone WANT that?

 

[ListlessLiz]

"When their moms find out that this gal won''t put out, she''ll be pushing sonny boy to pick that one! And she''s got his ear more that you know."

Woah... If I ever found out that BF only proposed because he wasn''t getting nookie and his mother pushed him into it (because he wasn''t getting nookie!), I''d be very, very scared.

Really, I''d be truly scared to find out that sex was at all a factor in his decision to propose. Shouldn''t he want to marry me for some reasons slightly less base? My love for him, my intelligence, my passion for things OTHER than how my "milk" and his "sausage" fit together? To be honest, my BF and I have been dating for over 6 years and we are saving ourself for marriage not because of societal pressures/religious forces but simply because it''s something that''s important to me for my own reasons. (Having the wedding night be my first time is something I planned on long before I met BF, and, actually, I''m an atheist - so it''s not as if I''m holding out on him because I''m afraid I''ll be damned to hell or struck by lightning as soon as the panties come off.)

Would he prefer to be having sex right now? Yes, absolutely. But is my "holding out" in any way speeding up or slowing down the proposal? Certainly not. We''re both happy in this relationship, and I do "satisfy his primal urges" in ways that don''t directly involve my "milk." Sorry if that''s TMI - but I didn''t want you feeling too bad for the guy!

Long story short, I''d be horrified to find out that he only proposed because he wouldn''t get laid otherwise! So CookieTime, you''re right, I AM WORTH IT.... and so are all these other ladies, with or without their milk. Sex is a choice that shouldn''t be made in spite, or in anger, or in cloying desperation for a ring. (And if I ever find out that my sex life is a common topic of discussion for my man and his mother then I''ll just claw my eyes out, buy myself a big fat diamond right-hand ring, and get myself to a nunnery!)

 

[sandia_rose]

Date: 2/21/2008 5:37:20 PM
Author: ListlessLiz

Would he prefer to be having sex right now? Yes, absolutely. But is my 'holding out' in any way speeding up or slowing down the proposal? Certainly not. We're both happy in this relationship, and I do 'satisfy his primal urges' in ways that don't directly involve my 'milk.' Sorry if that's TMI - but I didn't want you feeling too bad for the guy!

Long story short, I'd be horrified to find out that he only proposed because he wouldn't get laid otherwise! So CookieTime, you're right, I AM WORTH IT.... and so are all these other ladies, with or without their milk. Sex is a choice that shouldn't be made in spite, or in anger, or in cloying desperation for a ring. (And if I ever find out that my sex life is a common topic of discussion for my man and his mother then I'll just claw my eyes out, buy myself a big fat diamond right-hand ring, and get myself to a nunnery!)

My thoughts exactly!

I remember several years ago, I saw a special on Dateline about the trend for teen girls to take "virginity pledges." At the time, I thought the concept was creepy. It was religious-based. A huge group of girls would be "honored" with a dinner and white ballgowns, kind of like a debutante dance. They would be escorted by their fathers or another male authority figure (uncle, older brother). At this event, they would be given "pledge rings" by this male relative, to wear on their left hands and only to be removed to make place for a wedding ring. The male relative would also make a pledge to "guard" the girl's virginity and "make sure" that she would be "deflowered" ONLY by the man she married and would date ONLY guys that they approved, to protect her "honor." Male relatives guarding a girl's virginity like a commodity to be given away to the highest or appropriate bidder? Sounds a little too Taliban to me.

But then I thought about later. The basic idea behind that is to make sure that the girl isn't used and abused. One of the issues with our society is that women are sexualized by the media and popular culture -- to the point where young girls are made to feel less than female if they're not dressing sexy and acting to attract men by the time they're old enough to wear a bra. I read about another program with the same concept, that is less creepy and goes along with what you said, as far as things being for your own reasons and knowing that you're worth it.

I forget the name of the program, but it's a program that started in (I think) Chicago. Girls who join the program pledge to stay virgins until they are 21 or until they marry, whichever comes first -- along with pledging to dress and act in a way that shows self-respect and concentrating on finishing their educations. I saw this program covered on a Discovery Channel program, and the woman who thought it up did so because she was frustrated at seeing girls in her neighborhood become teenage mothers and drop out of school. Staying a virgin for that reason: to finish school, set up the guidelines for a productive, independent adult life and waiting long enough to become an adult who can make smart choices about sex, isn't a bad idea in my book. There are a few girls-only prep schools in my state, and I am in favor of those as well. Young girls should be able to finish their educations and excel without having to deal with what is in some cases debilitating pressure to grow up too fast or become less of who they can be, simply to attract boys.

Bridget in Connecticut.

 

[surfgirl]

Well, I've been reading this thread all day and it's astounding to me the reactions here. I'm with deco and TGal. And I'm also really disappointed in how nasty, vehement and childish some of the responses have been. It's like a few people took offense and the whole conversation escalated into some rabid dog fight. Sad...

Really. I dont think the OP meant to crap on anyone's particular life choices, I think she's old fashioned in her philosophy and was probably reacting to a great many threads that have been posted here. Someone upthread said something about this not being a place of needy desperate women, but instead a place filled with strong, empowered, independent women, and yet, if one were to pop in here for the first time and read through the first 3-5 pages in the LIW forum area, they'd likely find thread after thread after thread of ladies who, when push comes to shove, aren't even really LIWs, they're more in some hurry (I wont say desperate but it does come across in that way to me in many threads) to get married and dont even appear to have had any serious convos with the BF regarding marriage. And yes, many are currently living with their SOs. So I can totally see how someone could wander in here and get that impression and want to send a "choose me" sort of message by urging women to not "play house" unless they know the guy is on a marriage track.

Now, I'm not saying her veiwpoint is right or wrong because let's be honest, to each his/her own, right? There's no one right or wrong way for a woman to approach a serious relationship and living with, or being intimate with one's BF does not a harlot make. That said, there IS a grain of truth in her words...There ARE quite a few men out there who dont commit because they're afraid or whatever, and they're getting the marital benefits of playing house minus the commitment. So I can see where the OP would say what she did. I dont recall her actually saying people who live with or have sex with their BFs are "bad girls", just that she personally felt that waiting for marriage, including living together, was the way she felt she could determine if a man was serious about marriage. That's her perspective, just as all of us have our various perspectives.

Sadly, I think this could have been a REALLY interesting thread, had people not gotten their collective panties in a twist, and had instead, responded in a more mature and thoughtful manner. I dont think outright insults and mockery of the OP can lead to anything positive. What I would say is that it would be very cool if the OP would come back and clarify her post and responses to some of the issues people took with her words. Because I think this conversation could lead to a really fascinating conversation between differing age groups, different backgrounds, cultures, etc. It's just a shame it went south so quickly.

Bottom line, no matter what team you play on - whether you prefer sausage patties or links - your life decisions are your own and hopefully they're the right decisions for you and you alone. Nobody's way is the only right way. Right?!?

 

[sandia_rose]

Date: 2/21/2008 6:03:05 PM
Author: surfgirl

Sadly, I think this could have been a REALLY interesting thread, had people not gotten their collective panties in a twist, and had instead, responded in a more mature and thoughtful manner. I dont think outright insults and mockery of the OP can lead to anything positive. What I would say is that it would be very cool if the OP would come back and clarify her post and responses to some of the issues people took with her words. Because I think this conversation could lead to a really fascinating conversation between differing age groups, different backgrounds, cultures, etc. It's just a shame it went south so quickly.

I dunno. I didn't think it went south. I think that maybe this was a case that is common to the internet/e-mail. You can't see someone's facial expressions and hear the inflections in their voice from a written post, so it's easy to take things wrong from the way they were intended. In fact, one of the larger companies that I worked for actually had a RULE to where people were not allowed to discuss complicated / emotional subjects (ie - work performance issues or problems with co-workers) over e-mail. This was in the early 90s, when e-mail was a relatively new thing. Apparently, the company had several incidents that stemmed from someone writing something in an e-mail and the recipient taking it totally wrong and havoc breaking out.

I thought this was an interesting thread, and I liked all the tangents it took. And I also enjoyed the funny comments people posted. It broke up my day, and as I said, it diverted me from the personal problems I am experiencing. I find it interesting how so many different people could read the same thing and get something different out of it.

Going home now. We're supposed to get a huge snowstorm tomorrow. My boss is taking the day off, so after I finish my work-work, I expect to be back on here to see where this thread went overnight. And hopefully, our snow will not be too bad. I want to go see Grace Potter tomorrow night. Check her out if you need a positive example of a strong, talented woman who knows who she is: http://www.gracepotter.com/. She totally ROCKS!

Bridget in Connecticut.

 

[Mara]

haha wow who knew what i was clicking on when i floated into LIW...what an entertaining read for the day!!! i love the range of responses and also i think part of many reactions has to do with what type of situation each lady is in.

i am in the camp who thought that the OP while a little outdated in her thoughts definitely had best interests in mind and also had some interesting points. while i don''t agree with the whole cow/milk thing as solely a SEX Thing...more like...the guy has EVERYTHING he wants now...why should he want to change anything. there are so many men out there like that (we see it all the time on LIW forum!) who are like oh but things are going so great now...''if he has the life with you all tied up and wrapped in a pretty bow minus the ring and marriage....what is going to make him change and want to take that extra step???''.

for that i tend to agree. there''s way too much complacency nowadays from couples in relationships, or ''assumptions'' that because you are moving fwd by living together and/or making plans for the future that it equals ''he wants to get married too''....don''t assume you all are on the same page, communicate, communicate, communicate and make sure you are in it TOGETHER all the way.

TG...do i have to take my shoes off in ''your house''? they''re part of my OUTFIT.

 

[Ali]

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