Why inscribe on the table?

[hgau999]

Can some one explain what is the inscription on the table mean and does this have any ill effect on the stone?

AGS#: 6673701
Report Type: Diamond Quality™ Document
Shape and Style: Round Brilliant
Measurements: 6.63 - 6.66 x 4.07 mm
Cut Grade: AGS Ideal 0
Light Performance: 0
Proportion Factors: 0
Finish: 0
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Color Grade: AGS 1.5 (G)
Clarity Grade: AGS 4 (VS2)
Carat Weight: 1.09
Fluorescence: Medium Blue
Comments:
"È5548572155" is present on the table facet of this diamond.
Table: 55.7%
Crown Angle: 34.1
Crown Height: 15.1%
Girdle: Faceted, 0.9% to 3.2%
Pavilion Angle: 40.9
Pavilion Depth: 43.1%
Total Depth: 61.3%
Culet: Pointed

 

[surfgirl]

I think you mean on the girdle, yes? I cant imagine anyone inscribing a table. That''s the flat part on top of the stone. The girdle''s the thin edge, where some inscribe an identification number/code so they know that''s they''re stone.

 

[hgau999]

Comments:

''È5548572155'' is present on the table facet of this diamond.

Aren''t they talking about the table?

 

[belle]

some diamonds do have inscriptions on one of the table facets. like girdle inscriptions, they are extremely small and can only be seen with a microscope. the inscription does not effect performance.

as to why...i don't really know. i know there are at least a few that make that the place that they always put 'their' mark. perhaps it is something like a copyright or 'stamp of approval'. i don't have any facts as to 'why' i just know that it does happen and it isn't a bad thing.

 

[surfgirl]

I didn''t know that belle...that would seriously bug me. A LOT.

 

[belle]

Date: 10/23/2007 7:03:18 PM
Author: surfgirl
I didn''t know that belle...that would seriously bug me. A LOT.

are you myopic? i could probably make out the fuzz of an inscription without my glasses (i am THAT nearsighted)

otherwise....i don''t think you''d every be able to see it.

 

[Quash]

I would love if an expert could also point out why tables are inscribed vs. only girdles. But, it is done.

For one, I understand Tiffany does it on their diamonds and the inscription is large enough to be seen by a 10x loupe. However, I can''t confirm this. Can someone speak to this?

As well, Isee2 branded diamonds have an ionized inscription (I don''t know what an "ionized" inscription is. Do others?) But, I''m told that even high powered microscopes can''t read it.

This is what I found:
"The mark is made through a proprietary microscopic radiation technique, invisible to the human eye, that doesn’t affect the clarity of the diamond."

See a blow up pic of the ionized inscription here:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/Technologies/Isee2/

And here''s another example of a laser inscription on a table:
http://www.hrd.be/index.php?id=301

 

[hgau999]

That would be bother me too. Especially when minor imperfections could mean the difference between a IF and VS. By purposely marking up the table like that, shouldn''t that be considered an imperfection and lower the grade? It''s like taking a brand new Benz and painting Jimmy Joe''s Dealership on the hood.

 

[belle]

Date: 10/23/2007 7:15:36 PM
Author: hgau999
That would be bother me too. Especially when minor imperfections could mean the difference between a IF and VS. By purposely marking up the table like that, shouldn''t that be considered an imperfection and lower the grade? It''s like taking a brand new Benz and painting Jimmy Joe''s Dealership on the hood.

no, it couldn''t. IF= internally flawless
and diamonds are graded at 10x, so if the incription were small enough to evade being seen at that power, it wouldn''t effect the clarity (even if it were ''FL'')

 

[Ellen]

Date: 10/23/2007 6:40:27 PM
Author:hgau999
Can some one explain what is the inscription on the table mean and does this have any ill effect on the stone?

Comments:
''È5548572155'' is present on the table facet of this diamond.

Is this an Isee2 diamond you''re looking at? The proportions seem to be indicative of one, along with the inscription description...

Is there a little symbol before it, like the one on this cert under comments?

http://204.17.89.15/show.php?image=1897/gia.gif

If so, it''s indeed an Isee2.


I asked them (Isee2) why they did it, and their reason is because it makes it much harder (maybe impossible without detection) to remove the identifying number from the diamond. Much easier to polish a number off a girdle.

The thing is, it''s almost, but not impossible to view it under a high mag microscope.

And no one is gonna see this with their eyes.

 

[denverappraiser]

It’s a branding thing. My daughter pays extra to get clothing that has the manufacturers name in 5 inch letters across the front for similar reasons. Personally, I wouldn’t do it but Tommy Hilfiger outearns me by a factor of a thousand so who am I to make fun of him?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Ellen]

So Neil, are you saying the reason they gave me is a bunch of fluff, and they just wanna be "different"?

 

[denverappraiser]

Yeah, I think it’s fluff. The Isee2 inscription is incredibly faint and any cutter who was motivated to erase it would have no trouble doing so. This is, of course, true of girdle inscriptions as well.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Ellen]

Date: 10/23/2007 9:17:31 PM
Author: denverappraiser
Yeah, I think it’s fluff. The Isee2 inscription is incredibly faint and any cutter who was motivated to erase it would have no trouble doing so. This is, of course, true of girdle inscriptions as well.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

Could a jeweler?

And for the record, I found their reason rather rediculous, only because while it''s supposed to keep their stones from having the identifying mark removed, the owner can''t easily see it to identify it. Heck, I can''t see it at all. It really doesn''t do me any good.

 

[denverappraiser]

It’s not difficult to do but it does take some fairly unusual and moderately expensive tools that few jewelry stores have. A store could set up for in-house diamond cutting and polishing if they really felt like it but it’s a very different sort of industry and other than some marketing benefits from being able to describe themselves as cutters there’s not much payoff in it. Without some forethought and some investment in tools, a jeweler would be hard pressed to erase any sort of diamond inscription no matter where it is on the stone.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Quash]

I just bought an iSee2 diamond from GOG. To me, it seemed like a branding exercise and wasn't even something that GOG used to sell the diamond, if I remember correctly. I only noticed it when I saw the AGS cert notes section. But, if part of that branding exercise is in ensuring only high quality products are attached to that brand, then there is some value in this, as it creates consumer confidence in the product. That's the whole point, really. But, it didn't impact my purchase. It was GOG's reputation as a vendor and their data that drove my decision.

I thought the inscription on the table, though, was silly, as the owner and most jewelers can't see the inscription. In fact, I nearly decided against buying the diamond because they had inscribed on the table until I realized it can't even be seen under most microscopes. So, it's of little value to me, if, let's say, I'm doing a quick check with a loupe after a ring is returned from a cleaning.

So, I had the AGS # inscribed on the girdle by GOG so I could see it. Again, this can be erased. But, the jeweler who is interested in pulling a switch (and I work on the assumption most are honest, decent, hard working folk) is probably looking for an easy opportunity, rather than a difficult one, so I'd assume most would just move on to the next stone than switch the one inscribed.

That said, I bought an SI1 and should be able to identify it under a loupe just by the inclusions, but since I'm a newbie to this, I didn't trust my ability to do this.

Can anyone confirm if Tiffany inscribes on the table, as someone mentioned to me? Probably so their sales folks can do a quick and easy ID when they are brought in, if this is true.

Quash

 

[denverappraiser]

It does the bad guys very little good to erase a girdle marking. If they want to swap out your stone and fool you using markings, the trick is adding your markings to a different stone. This is also involves some fairly exotic tools that are unlikely to be present in a jewelry store but, in practice, the incentive isn’t there either. Presumably the reason that they would be interested in stealing your stone is to replace it with an inferior one that would be otherwise indistinguishable save for the markings. If it’s so similar that this becomes the issue then the price will be similar too. If it’s not then there will be plenty of other clues to use to spot the problem.

Erasing a mark would, theoretically, make it more difficult for the police to recognize a stolen diamond when it’s resold somewhere else but since there’s no database matching serial numbers to owners and there’s no reliable way to create such a thing, this isn’t really very helpful for the authorities and therefore not a great worry for the thieves.

I agree with the above that most jewelers are hard working and honest people and that the problem of them switching diamonds is blown way out of proportion. Your risk of this happening are far less than that of getting into an auto accident on the way to and from the jewelry store. An inscription is a handy thing for recognizing your stone when you drop it off and pick it up and the risk of someone attempting to counterfeit your inscription is nominal at best.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

Ps. Drive safely.

 

[diagem]

Date: 10/23/2007 6:40:27 PM
Author:hgau999
Can some one explain what is the inscription on the table mean and does this have any ill effect on the stone?

AGS#: 6673701
Report Type: Diamond Quality™ Document
Shape and Style: Round Brilliant
Measurements: 6.63 - 6.66 x 4.07 mm
Cut Grade: AGS Ideal 0
Light Performance: 0
Proportion Factors: 0
Finish: 0
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Color Grade: AGS 1.5 (G)
Clarity Grade: AGS 4 (VS2)
Carat Weight: 1.09
Fluorescence: Medium Blue
Comments:
''È5548572155'' is present on the table facet of this diamond.
Table: 55.7%
Crown Angle: 34.1
Crown Height: 15.1%
Girdle: Faceted, 0.9% to 3.2%
Pavilion Angle: 40.9
Pavilion Depth: 43.1%
Total Depth: 61.3%
Culet: Pointed

If I am not mistaken..., DeBeers hologramed their millennium Diamonds with the DTC mark right on the table...
You did need a special viewing device that came with the Diamond to see it...

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 10/24/2007 11:42:08 AM
Author: DiaGem

If I am not mistaken..., DeBeers hologramed their millennium Diamonds with the DTC mark right on the table...
You did need a special viewing device that came with the Diamond to see it...

The DTC Forevermark diamonds have this table marking and DG's right - it's not something easily seen with a loupe and most jewelers don't have a special viewer for it. Last year GemEx introduced a Holograph Diamond Viewer in two sizes, one of which is small/portable. They also began offering customized table marking services.

 

[surfgirl]

Date: 10/23/2007 7:08:58 PM
Author: belle

Date: 10/23/2007 7:03:18 PM

Author: surfgirl

I didn''t know that belle...that would seriously bug me. A LOT.

are you myopic? i could probably make out the fuzz of an inscription without my glasses (i am THAT nearsighted)

otherwise....i don''t think you''d every be able to see it.

Actually yes Belle, I probably could see it as I have very sharp vision and I always notice the smallest little things that others dont see. That''s why I said what I said.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 10/24/2007 9:43:05 AM
Author: Quash
I just bought an iSee2 diamond from GOG. To me, it seemed like a branding exercise and wasn't even something that GOG used to sell the diamond, if I remember correctly. I only noticed it when I saw the AGS cert notes section. But, if part of that branding exercise is in ensuring only high quality products are attached to that brand, then there is some value in this, as it creates consumer confidence in the product. That's the whole point, really. But, it didn't impact my purchase. It was GOG's reputation as a vendor and their data that drove my decision.

I thought the inscription on the table, though, was silly, as the owner and most jewelers can't see the inscription. In fact, I nearly decided against buying the diamond because they had inscribed on the table until I realized it can't even be seen under most microscopes. So, it's of little value to me, if, let's say, I'm doing a quick check with a loupe after a ring is returned from a cleaning.

Agreed. I didn't even know mine was branded til later on. And I also agree, at least with Isee2, that the branding does mean high quality/extremely well cut stones. And to me, that's what it should mean.

But if they really do put that logo and number on the table for peace of mind for the buyer, they missed their mark.

And I told them so.

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 10/24/2007 11:25:17 AM
Author: denverappraiser
It does the bad guys very little good to erase a girdle marking.

To the original question...why inscribe on the table...isn''t it to maybe to provide identification post inscription on the girdle that the storekeeper does not know about?

Maybe you want to trust your jeweler, and also, you don''t want to have to ask them to check inscriptions with you, suggesting you don''t trust them. But..you really do want to check.

So...if you check at home, see it is not your diamond...maybe the inscription on the table thing is still so fairly unusual...that you could consider calling the police, and the bad guy jeweler...not having known about the fairly hidden inscription...will still have it in the open in the shop.

1) Is this more likely...that the point is for the jeweler not to know about it?
2) What is the chance of
a) getting the police to check it out? With insurance''s help, high?
b) having the diamond be found with this process.

Is there another good explanation for the original motive? Seems like the idea is to have an identifier the jeweler does not know about...from the point of view, as Denver points out...that a bad guy can "deep six" the notation.

 

[oldminer]

At the early times of laser inscription, it was a fairly secure process which served to identify the merchandise of a particular firm or vendor. As time has passed a laser inscribed girdle has become a quasi-standard but has lost a good deal of its original security. A relatively large number of good inscription devices are in use by many different people and we just can no longer assume that an inscription is absolutely the mark of a particular source. A counterfeit could exist and it might be very difficult to detect with certainty.

Just like dogs marking their territory, brand name afficionados looked into higher tech solutions than standard girdle inscription. The table and the other crwn facets became targets for placing logos, trademarks and inventory numbers. Because these were to be in the visible surface of the diamond, they had to be very tiny and completely on the surface or they''d be graded as inclusions by gem labs. Tchnology gave a couple solutions and we now have a small number of brands with crown or table inscriptions. No doubt, these add a certain measure of security, but in the long run their might be counterfeits for these, too. For all I know, there may be already.

The real coup is the development of non-marking technology which can re-identify a diamond. The big deal here is that a potential couterfeiter cannot possibly know the components of what constitutes a matching diamond. Without this knowledge, a diamond cannot be substituted for another. This process is already developed, but not yet in commercial use. A diamond can still be laser inscribed to assist a consumer in simple re-identification, but for insurance purposes or inventory control a better, more security oriented system can be employed.

I sort of think people like the comfort level they get with a tiny, yet visible inscription. However, diamond dealers and large retailers will be better protected by technology that makes it virtually impossible to change a diamond without detecting the change. I think a major cghain of stores using this technology will prevent itself from being defrauded by a "customer" making a return of a diamond which is not the right stone. It may seem unbelievable, but this happens all the time and stores who value their reputation swallow their pride and take back a switched diamond. Who pays for this? The honest consumer, of course.